All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

mountgomery burns

big_drive wrote: »

I know, I’m just saying technically if limerick lose it’s not 100% they’re out

Cork v Waterford game is on first so Limerick will know for sure going into the game

threeball

munsterlegend wrote: »

Surely you would think all 3! Look at the history books.

Yes the history books show kk and cork are the main powerhouses but for some reason, perhaps it's the fact that for years it was the only sport they played seriously, but tipp and kk were always the first counties that sprung to mind when talking hurling.

puzl

In modern history (say since 1970) Tipp often factor in the all Ireland but don't win it nearly as often as cork.

Since 1970 it's something like 20 for Kilkenny, 10 for cork and 5 for Tipp... I could be one or two out but it's roughly that.

If you only count since the backdoor then it's 10 for kk and 3 each for Cork, Tipp and Clare.

Really modern hurling has been dominated by one and only one county. I'd love to see a decade with a scattering of winners across 6-7 counties, but I feel that it won't take long for a return to the big three sweeping up 8 out of 10 all irelands.

letsseehere14

puzl wrote:

Since 1970 it's something like 20 for Kilkenny, 10 for cork and 5 for Tipp... I could be one or two out but it's roughly that.

Iv had this debate before. Why from the 70s? The 70s are as relevant now as the 60s. From the 60s to now tipp have 10, Cork have 11. From the 80s to now Cork have 6, Tipp have 5. Why the 70s? Kilkenny is skewed the last 20 years due to that awesome team they've had but it is a big 3 like it or not!
Look at Munster last 10 years and tell me Tipp and Cork don't still dominate.

If said this before on here. Trying to drag the big 3 back to the pack by picking periods to create a narrative instead of accepting our own shortfalls as hurling counties is pointless. The 70s are as relevant as the 60s or the 80s. Really the 90s are still relevant as it set the desire in players playing now as children. But go back any further and a win in 73 is as relevant as a win in 63 or 83. So picking dates like above means nothing.

C__MC

puzl wrote: »

In modern history (say since 1970) Tipp often factor in the all Ireland but don't win it nearly as often as cork.

Since 1970 it's something like 20 for Kilkenny, 10 for cork and 5 for Tipp... I could be one or two out but it's roughly that.

If you only count since the backdoor then it's 10 for kk and 3 each for Cork, Tipp and Clare.

Really modern hurling has been dominated by one and only one county. I'd love to see a decade with a scattering of winners across 6-7 counties, but I feel that it won't take long for a return to the big three sweeping up 8 out of 10 all irelands.

Sizing up the last three decades, it's been dominated by the big 3 despite a mini golden dawn happening in the small ball field

90s, kilkenny- 2
Cork- 2
Tipp- 1

Kk played in 3 more finals in that decade.

00,s kilkenny: 7
Cork: 2
Tipp: 1

Kk only missed out on 2 finals

2010s, kilkenny: 4
Tipp: 2
Limerick, galway, Clare took the other 3 with 1 to play

Despite this, we have lived in an era where nearly every county has had some success in the past 20 years. Waterford haven't won the big one but have went through a golden age in recent times. Galway, limerick, Clare have won the big one while the metropolitans took leinster in 2013. A barren spell is currently on the model county, there last Bob o Keefe cup was in 2004.

I don't think we will see an era where we have 6/7 winners. The big 3 have the tradition and the skill. Growing up, there was always a guarantee in life, death taxes and kilkenny finding the net. I loved that kilkenny team from 2000-2015. It took tipperary and the rebels to beat them in other years, no other county could have done this. Why? Its the self belief that is in the big 3, I don't think the other counties possess this on a consistent basis. Kilkenny also gave sucker punches back 2006, 2011. You'll see alot of false dawns in hurling with counties I.e. Clare 2013 but the big 3 always come back for more due to who they are and what they possess. Tipp were dead and buried by the experts in April., there legs were gone, now there favourites to win it. Limerick had the best plan, best management, best structure in April now they are 70 minutes away from losing their title.

The Big 3 bring that little bit more to the field then the others hence their dominance

Someone also mentioned last years Munster final, yes indeed it was cork at their best, almost Brazilian hurling in terms of skill.

liogairmhordain

big_drive wrote: »

A lot of people saying limerick out if they lose at weekend and not mathematically possible they qualify

But that’s depending on Cork winning isn’t it?

I know it’s unlikely but if cork lose their final 2 games don’t Limerick just need one win to qualify so even if they lost vs Clare a win the following week vs Tipp would do for third place

Last year the Munster Council insisted on playing the Round 4 games at the same time. But it abandoned that this year, presumably to facilitate Sky Sports showing the Waterford-Cork match on Saturday night.

letsseehere14

C__MC wrote: »

Sizing up the last three decades, it's been dominated by the big 3 despite a mini golden dawn happening in the small ball field

90s, kilkenny- 2
Cork- 2
Tipp- 1

Kk played in 3 more finals in that decade.

00,s kilkenny: 7
Cork: 2
Tipp: 1

Kk only missed out on 2 finals

2010s, kilkenny: 4
Tipp: 2
Limerick, galway, Clare took the other 3 with 1 to play

Despite this, we have lived in an era where nearly every county has had some success in the past 20 years. Waterford haven't won the big one but have went through a golden age in recent times. Galway, limerick, Clare have won the big one while the metropolitans took leinster in 2013. A barren spell is currently on the model county, there last Bob o Keefe cup was in 2004.

I don't think we will see an era where we have 6/7 winners. The big 3 have the tradition and the skill. Growing up, there was always a guarantee in life, death taxes and kilkenny finding the net. I loved that kilkenny team from 2000-2015. It took tipperary and the rebels to beat them in other years, no other county could have done this. Why? Its the self belief that is in the big 3, I don't think the other counties possess this on a consistent basis. Kilkenny also gave sucker punches back 2006, 2011. You'll see alot of false dawns in hurling with counties I.e. Clare 2013 but the big 3 always come back for more due to who they are and what they possess. Tipp were dead and buried by the experts in April., there legs were gone, now there favourites to win it. Limerick had the best plan, best management, best structure in April now they are 70 minutes away from losing their title.

The Big 3 bring that little bit more to the field then the others hence their dominance

Someone also mentioned last years Munster final, yes indeed it was cork at their best, almost Brazilian hurling in terms of skill.

I agree. A clear big 3.
Munster counties alone;
Limerick golden ages if it can be called that, in many of our lifetimes are 2 Munsters and 1 AI in the 70s, 2 Munsters in the 80s, 2 Munsters in the 90s and a Munster and AI this decade.
Clares golden age was 3 Munsters and 2 AIs in the 90s.
Watrefords was 4 Munsters from 02 to 2010

Tipp and Cork do that practically every decade. Even taking the best of it which was Clare in the 90s, Cork also won 3 Munsters and 2 AIs, Tipp won 2 Munsters and an AI that decade.
But next, Cork went and won 4 Munsters and 2 AIs, Tipp 3 Munsters and 1 AI in the 00s
Tipp this decade have 4 Munsters and 2 AIs.

When you look at Tipperarys "famine", which some when taking dates like to take just at the start of, you see that over the 70s and 80s when this occurred they still won 4 Munsters and 2 AIs just at the extreme ends.
That same period Clare won nothing, Waterford won nothing, Dublin won nothing, Wexford won 3 Leinsters, Limerick won 4 Munsters and 1 AI, Galway won 3 Ais

Leaving Offaly out of it, who had a great 80s and 90s and have disappeared since, A famine for the big 3 is still a feast for anyone else.

terryrogers

puzl wrote: »

In modern history (say since 1970) Tipp often factor in the all Ireland but don't win it nearly as often as cork.

What's really considered as modern history I wonder? For anyone playing the game today you would look at the last generation, 30 years perhaps? In this time, since 1989, the roll of honour has been: Kilkenny 13 titles, Tipp 5, Cork 4, Clare 3, Offaly 2, Wexford, Galway and Limerick 1 each.

In this period Tipp have been in 9 finals (won 5) and Cork in 8 (won 4), so in recent history Cork don't win more often than Tipp nor have they taken more of their chances. Clare won 3 out of 4 final appearances in this time.

Kilkenny have seriously dominated obviously and have won as many as all the Munster teams put together in recent history. And in fact they've beaten all of the above teams in an AI final in this period, apart from Wexford. It's often said that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster hence their record. But if you look at win rates of the above teams outside of the provincials, i.e. in AI series/qualifiers only it reads: Kilkenny 74% win rate, Tipp 63%, Clare 55%, Cork 54%, all the others - sub 50%. Kilkenny have had far more drawn games than the others also indicating that they are very hard to beat.

So is it time to forget about the so called big 3? At some point the history books should be recognised as history. The last generation shows one team dominating, perhaps it could stretch to a big 2 with Tipp given their win rate. I really don't see how Cork could be considered a 'big' team anymore. If you say you think hurling you think Cork, then you may as well say 'you think hurling you think Cuchullain'!

Nic_Col

Galway could be in a spot of bother, don't look quite as convincing without Joe, I think he would have bailed them out of the Wexford game, great man to stand up and grab a game by the scruff of the neck. If they don't win at Nowlan Park tomorrow a rested Dublin will be primed and ready to knock them out the following weekend in Parnell Park.

All three of Galway, Limerick and Clare need to raise their game because they're falling short of standards they set last year so far; and one of the latter two will be eliminated by the end of the weekend.

Clare technically could still qualify even if they lose this weekend but they would need an unlikely combination of results, involving having to beat Cork by probably at least 10 points in the final round.

C__MC

Tipp definitely had a barren spell between 2001/2010 but still made 4 all Ireland semis and played in 5 Munster finals, winning two.

C__MC

Corks barren spell from 2005 is interesting. From 2007~2011, they held onto the noughties/late nineties team way to much along with the strikes but during the spell they had some impressive wins, again down to who they are. They beat galway in 2008, tipp in 2010 with I would say an ageing team by all accounts. Cody buried that golden era of cork hurling in 2006.

From 2011 to now, they are rebuilding nicely. Its taken longer then expected but I think the next decade you'll see a few wins for the rebels. They where very unlucky in 2013, time was up in the drawn game. They met one of the big 3 in 2014, 2015 saw the resurrection of galway hurling and 2016 was very disappointing against the slaneysiders. Last two years have been tough on the rebels. Classy hurling with stick work and pace has been sublime. Cahalne sending off was crucial in 2017 whilst last year the width of a post and the base of nicky Quaid Hurley denied them. They have a huge talent pool coming through and play hurling the way it should be played. What was tipps toughest game this year? I'd love to see a cork tipp final.

Powerhouse

terryrogers wrote: »

It's often said that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster hence their record. But if you look at win rates of the above teams outside of the provincials, i.e. in AI series/qualifiers only it reads: Kilkenny 74% win rate, Tipp 63%, Clare 55%, Cork 54%, all the others - sub 50%. Kilkenny have had far more drawn games than the others also indicating that they are very hard to beat.

There are two problems with these statistics.

One: the Clare figure does not take into account that they very often (they only reached one Munster Final is the 2000s for example) entered the qualifiers at an early stage so this has made it easier to compile a better record.

Two: you reference Kilkenny's win rate in the qualifiers to disprove the theory that they "had it easy" in Leinster. But this is a false argument. You are refencing evidence which has nothing to do with Kilkenny's Leinster campaigns. They have a good record outside Leinster 2000-2015, of course they have. We know that.

But to see if they did "have it easy" in Leinster look at their Leinster campaigns and particularly margins of victory in the province against Wexford/Offaly/Dublin. Then look at how Wexford/Offaly/Dublin did in the qualifiers against non Leinster teams. That, and not Kilkenny's own record, tells that story. You will find that all these counties got some savage beatings in the qualifiers too around the time they were being hammered by Kilkenny. The argument that these counties looked bad only because Kilkenny were so good has been discredited long since.

In 2006 Kilkenny played Westmeath in the Leinster semi-final, Clare had to play Cork (the All Ireland champions) in the equivalent match in Munster! Kilkenny were excellent for a long period and excellent against all teams but let's not cod ourselves by saying they didn't have it easy in Leinster.

Pogue eile

MfMan wrote: »

When Bonnar can get a goal, you know you’re in trouble.

Bonner has scored a goal in a Minor, U21 and Senior AI final

Powerhouse wrote: »

I think we learned from the example of Galway last year the foolishness of crowning teams before they have earned it. In the middle of last summer Galway were the next big thing but since that have been going backwards quickly. After next weekend it'll probably get worse. Anyway the actual All-Ireland final will be Kilkenny v Cork or maybe at a stretch Limerick.

You clearly havent learned from your foolishness :rolleyes:

Powerhouse wrote: »

By the time Tipperary reach Croke Park they'll have their best hurling done. By the time Kilkenny get there they'll just be getting their full team on the pitch for a fresh start.

You are a strenght and conditioning coach now as well, a man of many talents, or are you simply offeriing opinion as fact??

Powerhouse

Pogue eile wrote: »

Bonner has scored a goal in a Minor, U21 and Senior AI final



You clearly havent learned from your foolishness :rolleyes:



You are a strenght and conditioning coach now as well, a man of many talents, or are you simply offeriing opinion as fact??

I think we learned from the example of Galway last year the foolishness of crowning teams before they have earned it. In the middle of last summer Galway were the next big thing but since that have been going backwards quickly. After next weekend it'll probably get worse. Anyway the actual All-Ireland final will be Kilkenny v Cork or maybe at a stretch Limerick.

You clearly havent learned from your foolishness :rolleyes:

Haven't I? I can't see where I crowned a team All Ireland champions, maybe you'd point that out. I mentioned three possibilities to make the final. In a competition which has maybe five capable of getting that far it's not exactly a wild thing to do. Anyway when you find where I deemed someone to be All Ireland champions maybe you'd point it out.

By the time Tipperary reach Croke Park they'll have their best hurling done. By the time Kilkenny get there they'll just be getting their full team on the pitch for a fresh start.

You are a strenght and conditioning coach now as well, a man of many talents, or are you simply offeriing opinion as fact??

Offering opinion as fact? Really? You're the only one claiming that a speculation about what might happen in a couple of months time might be masquerading as "fact". Sometimes facts are used here, most of the time it's opinion. I would most people can fairly easily tell the difference. Anyone who needs it explained will hardly get it anyway.

lim4ev

Powerhouse wrote: »

I never quite get the (often proposed) argument to abolish the provincial championships but then turn around and create two groups. In other words provide virtually the same championship format with just different teams in the two groups.

At least with the provincials people have some chance of not having to travel really insane distances e.g. Clare to Wexford, Cork to Dublin, Waterford to Galway etc. And there is (even if it is absolutely hated by some people) the element of tradition and rivalry associated with the provincial championships. Limerick v Clare, or Tipperary will create far more interest in Limerick than any Leinster team coming to town. I could see a lot of games being played out in front of poor attendances under an open draw. It is also not clear what "two groups" achieves that the current system of "two groups" (provinces) does not.

It also creates a provincial final which, though you claim no one cares who wins last year attracted 40,000 in Leinster and 45,000 in Munster (and both attendances were actually down on the previous year). In contrast only 18,000 showed up at the Limerick-Kilkenny knockout game in the quarter-final. Imagine how low that crowd might be in a group game with less at stake? If we judge people voting with their feet it appears that there is much more appetite for the provincial championships than you think.

This of course assumes that we organise competitions in the manner people have shown they want (by attending in large numbers) rather than trying to mirror the structures of competitions in other sports by having open draws just for the sake of it.

Excellent argument in fairness

puzl

I think there's a reasonable chance we have Tipp and Kilkenny win their provincials, which puts both of them straight into semis with a reasonable chance of them both contesting the ai finals.

Obviously Limerick, Cork and Galway will have something to say about this, but going on current form (not the wisest of methods, I know) you'd expect Limerick and Cork to come through to the semis.

Imagine a cork Vs Kilkenny semi and a Limerick Vs Tipp semi. To be fair any two of these four would give us neutrals a tantalising final.

This weekend will tell a lot. Galway Vs Kilkenny will allow us to really read the form of both teams. Galway haven't played to their potential even without Joe.

I expect Limerick to get their long sought revenge on Clare this weekend and Cork to beat Waterford comfortably. If this happens then it gets really interesting as any of the three contenders for a Munster final appearance could end up on six points - if cork beat Clare and Limerick beat Tipp in round 5 then it comes down to points difference. Either which way, it looks like Munster will be decided in round 5 again, which is good.

MfMan

Pogue eile wrote: »

Bonner has scored a goal in a Minor, U21 and Senior AI final

If he could have availed of the easy opportunity in the 2014 drawn final, he'd have another medal.

terryrogers

Powerhouse wrote: »

There are two problems with these statistics.

One: the Clare figure does not take into account that they very often (they only reached one Munster Final is the 2000s for example) entered the qualifiers at an early stage so this has made it easier to compile a better record.

Two: you reference Kilkenny's win rate in the qualifiers to disprove the theory that they "had it easy" in Leinster. But this is a false argument. You are refencing evidence which has nothing to do with Kilkenny's Leinster campaigns. They have a good record outside Leinster 2000-2015, of course they have. We know that.

No problem with the stats, just the way you read them.

One: you've gone (selectively) off-track with Clare here, most teams have went through the qualifiers more often than they haven't since qualifiers were introduced. My original point was in relation to another posters assertion that Cork had a better record and were more efficient in finals than Tipp in recent history, which the stats prove wrong.

Two: you've gone off on another tangent here, I wasn't trying to disprove any theories. I referenced evidence of the All Ireland series erm, to show that Kilkenny have heavily dominated the All Ireland series in recent history regardless of if they've had it easy in Leinster or not. Not sure why you're labouring on the Leinster championship.

There's been lot of talk/nostalgia about Cork in the last few pages but I just can't see why they're being considered one of the 'big' teams anymore. Maybe they will end their drought this year, or maybe they'll end their first decade without a title after 140 more minutes of hurling...

windy shepard henderson

terryrogers wrote: »

No problem with the stats, just the way you read them.



There's been lot of talk/nostalgia about Cork in the last few pages but I just can't see why they're being considered one of the 'big' teams anymore. Maybe they will end their drought this year, or maybe they'll end their first decade without a title after 140 more minutes of hurling...

i still think they are a big side , no matter what format in munster they probably have started to dominate it in the last few years , have been very unlucky in one or two semi finals , and very easily could have ended that drought in 2013.

its croke park they need to make a fortress now not thurles , good man on the sideline not afraid to make big calls . i agree its only a matter of time

Powerhouse

terryrogers wrote: »

No problem with the stats, just the way you read them.

One: you've gone (selectively) off-track with Clare here, most teams have went through the qualifiers more often than they haven't since qualifiers were introduced. My original point was in relation to another posters assertion that Cork had a better record and were more efficient in finals than Tipp in recent history, which the stats prove wrong.

Two: you've gone off on another tangent here, I wasn't trying to disprove any theories. I referenced evidence of the All Ireland series erm, to show that Kilkenny have heavily dominated the All Ireland series in recent history regardless of if they've had it easy in Leinster or not. Not sure why you're labouring on the Leinster championship.

Yes problems with the stats. Very definitely.

One: What you say is irrelevant. The stat I took issue with has nothing to do with whether most counties have been through the qualifiers more often than not. My point was that because Clare entered the qualifiers quite early quite often they usually had an easy match or two to bulk up their figures relative to Cork, for example. If you were trying to confine your point to Cork-Tipperary comparisons why mention Clare at all? I didn't "selectively" choose Clare. You're the one who introduced Clare to the point you were making. I simply pointed out an obvious caveat around Clare's record.

Two: You are simply wrong here. You are trying to change your argument and claim you were making a point which you weren't. To remind you, here's what you actually said originally: It's often said that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster hence their record. But if you look at win rates of the above teams outside of the provincials, i.e. in AI series/qualifiers only it reads: Kilkenny 74% win rate, Tipp 63%, Clare 55%, Cork 54%, all the others - sub 50%. Kilkenny have had far more drawn games than the others also indicating that they are very hard to beat.

There is a fairly clear attempt to link the remark "it is often said that Kilkenny have it easy in Leinster" with the remark "but if you look at win rates of the above teams outside of the provincials". The latter remark looks to somehow delegitimise any sceptical view of the strength of the Leinster championship back in the day by drawing attention to Kilkenny's record outside Leinster. The clear implication of what you wrote is a claim that Kilkenny have a very good record outside Leinster (well, they had. They have lost their last championship matches against all Munster counties bar Clare.) This seems to suggest they "had it easy" in Leinster only because they were so good as proven by their record outside.

Look at Clare's record against Leinster teams in the first six years of the qualifiers when they failed to reach the Munster Final and won just one game in the province: 2002 - beat Dublin by 17 points, Wexford by 8, 2003: beat Laois by 19 points, beat Offaly by 9 points, 2005: beat Dublin by 17 points, beat Offaly by 1, beat Wexford by 11 points, 2006: beat Dublin by 14, Offaly by 9 points, beat Wexford by 12 points. The probability is that they'd have won the Leinster championship every year had they been in Kilkenny's position, so anyone who thinks Kilkenny "had it easy" in Leinster is not far wrong.

The objective evidence shows that their Leinster opponents (pre-Galway) were poor and took regular hidings against Munster opposition. You may not want to take ownership of this but that is where that argument was going at the very least.

The Golden Miller

terryrogers wrote: »

No problem with the stats, just the way you read them.

One: you've gone (selectively) off-track with Clare here, most teams have went through the qualifiers more often than they haven't since qualifiers were introduced. My original point was in relation to another posters assertion that Cork had a better record and were more efficient in finals than Tipp in recent history, which the stats prove wrong.

Two: you've gone off on another tangent here, I wasn't trying to disprove any theories. I referenced evidence of the All Ireland series erm, to show that Kilkenny have heavily dominated the All Ireland series in recent history regardless of if they've had it easy in Leinster or not. Not sure why you're labouring on the Leinster championship.

There's been lot of talk/nostalgia about Cork in the last few pages but I just can't see why they're being considered one of the 'big' teams anymore. Maybe they will end their drought this year, or maybe they'll end their first decade without a title after 140 more minutes of hurling...

How are Cork not a "big" side. They've 30 All-Irelands and have won Munster the last few years running. Unless any cycle where one of the big 3 have a mini drought by there own standards are no longer a "big" team? Cork will continue to win All-Irelands at a quicker rate than any other county going forward, bar Kilkenny and Tipperary, who they will probably be on par with. History has repeatedly shown us this time and time again over the last 130 years or so. Unless 130 years of history, where this has been continually shown to be true, is not a good parameter to make an educated assumption on?

puzl

Cork are absolutely a "big" hurling county and there are no stats that will persuade any reasonable person otherwise.

However......their current form is their worst since they first won an all Ireland.

They last won in 05, so going on 14 years without one, something they have never done before. Another few years and they'll be hitting on 2 decades without one and then I think we'll have to reconsider.

They've also won at least one in every decade since they first won one *except* this decade.

And having said all that, I still think they have a great chance of winning this year. People say they could have or should have in 17 or 18 but they simply didn't have the bench to do it. This year they have bolstered a very strong starting 15 with some excellent new talent and some top class returning talent which gives them 20 or so players available on any given day.

threeball

Will Waterford get another clipping this evening or will Corks performance drop back to the level of the Tipp game. I can't see Waterford lifting it enough to bother them even if they do.

Mantis Toboggan

Lovely score by Jamie Barron.

topnotch

Waterford are filthy :rolleyes:

threeball

Both sides poor so far. Poor touch and striking. Some difference between what we saw last year.

threeball

Is Gleeson out injured or dropped?

The White Feather

threeball wrote: »

Is Gleeson out injured or dropped?

Dropped

Mantis Toboggan

threeball wrote: »

Is Gleeson out injured or dropped?

Dropped along with half a dozen others!

Mantis Toboggan

Cork full back line are there for the taking. Hoggie carrying them again.

Itssoeasy

Jesus help us I missed the first twenty minutes but cork would want to get the finger out.

Itssoeasy

Another goal for cork.

threeball

I'm enjoying the concert going on in the background more than the hurling so far.

blackcard

Very loose play, Cork will pull away in the second half

Itssoeasy

That’s three fouls by Waterford on cork players that weren't given.

citykat

Cork up to their usual diving

The White Feather

citykat wrote: »

Cork up to their usual diving

:rolleyes:

TheMilkyPirate

Wexford 1-10 to 0-11 up at half time here at home to Carlow. Wexford with the wind in the second half.

Carlow not a bad side at all

caddy16

Itssoeasy wrote: »

That’s three fouls by Waterford on cork players that weren't given.

Yes but same thinkg happened Waterford earlier in the half

threeball

Have loads of time for JJ but sweet Jesus he's hard to understand. More of a mumble than an accent.

threeball

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Wexford 1-10 to 0-11 up at half time here at home to Carlow. Wexford with the wind in the second half.

Carlow not a bad side at all

Amazing considering there's only 3 clubs or something. Had a good second half against KK too. They've rolled over for no one this year. They'd take Waterford on current forms.

OldMrBrennan83

threeball wrote: »

Amazing considering there's only 3 clubs or something. Had a good second half against KK too. They've rolled over for no one this year. They'd take Waterford on current forms.

3 senior.

mountgomery burns

threeball wrote: »

Amazing considering there's only 3 clubs or something. Had a good second half against KK too. They've rolled over for no one this year. They'd take Waterford on current forms.

Easy say that, when you'll never be proven wrong

GoldFour4

threeball wrote: »

I'm enjoying the concert going on in the background more than the hurling so far.

Thought it was something wrong with my Tv for a minute!

threeball

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Easy say that, when you'll never be proven wrong

Would you lump on this current Waterford team to beat them? I wouldn't

threeball

malistheman wrote: »

Thought it was something wrong with my Tv for a minute!

Sad you can hear it with a championship match going on. Seen more atmosphere at a wake.

mountgomery burns

threeball wrote: »

Would you lump on this current Waterford team to beat them? I wouldn't

At even money? Absolutely

As an aside Nash's puckout have been terrible. "Atrocious" you might say

Itssoeasy

That cork full back line!!!

citykat

That ref is some dope

Mantis Toboggan

Barron has been poor, doesn't look fit.