All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

citykat

That should be a second yellow card for Downey

mountgomery burns

How the **** did Roche not get a free there

threeball

This doesnt have the pace of a bad club training session. Meyler will be worried that they haven't disposed of Waterford alot easier than this. They won't be tired for next week anyway

TheMilkyPirate

Wexford 2-20 Carlow 0-16

Lee chin turning on the style

Mantis Toboggan

Carlow bet by 15 in the end. Fairly disappointed with them, all the talk of a Carlow rising and having played so well last year they never really raised a gallop. Hard to see anyone come up from the McDonagh and compete the standard is poor enough in truth. Maybe we can get an all star McDonagh team together and put it up to the big boys!!

TheMilkyPirate

Carlow were decent they just completely emptied in the last 20 minutes.

Davys Fits

Would they beat Waterford?

TheMilkyPirate

Davys Fits wrote: »

Would they beat Waterford?

Doubt it

cms88

Am i the only one who thinks it's crazy that Waterfod can lose all their championship games two years in a row and suffer no consequences?

cms88

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Carlow bet by 15 in the end. Fairly disappointed with them, all the talk of a Carlow rising and having played so well last year they never really raised a gallop. Hard to see anyone come up from the McDonagh and compete the standard is poor enough in truth. Maybe we can get an all star McDonagh team together and put it up to the big boys!!

Laois imo could compete, wouldn't be too far off Wexford and Dublin.

Clonmel1000

cms88 wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks it's crazy that Waterfod can lose all their championship games two years in a row and suffer no consequences?

Yes seeing as they haven’t lost all their championship games two years in a row.

C__MC

I really think leinster should be restricted back to four counties, those games are mis matches and do nobody any good.

Mahony0509

Clonmel1000 wrote: »

Yes seeing as they haven’t lost all their championship games two years in a row.

Waterford should be relegated this year. No excuse.

C__MC

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Waterford should be relegated this year. No excuse.

Would serve nobody any use, Waterford would tank any mc donagh team.

One_More_Mile

Cork have class forwards but I remain to be convinced of their full back line. I wouldn't back them for the AI with cadogan at full back

Mahony0509

C__MC wrote: »

Would serve nobody any use, Waterford would tank any mc donagh team.

You think the joe mcdonagh teams are gonna improve without facing tougher opposition?

C__MC

Mahony0509 wrote: »

You think the joe mcdonagh teams are gonna improve without facing tougher opposition?

It would be off no use knowing the eventual champions long before a ball is pucked. The Mc Donagh teams have a similar tale, fight hard for 50 odd minutes before falling away I.e. Carlow tonight. Was the same with cheddar and laois, heroic for large spells but you never sensed theyd win a game against the big boys. Regarding, Waterford, they are ****e atm but are a county that fall into an elite hurling category with a few others. Demoting them would diminish the Joe mc donagh cup.

kksaints

Strange sort of a match in Wexford this evening. 15 points loss is harsh on Carlow. They did well after the first 6 minutes where Wexford looked like completely overrunning Carlow but they dug in and battled well. Certainly they faded after Wexford scored their second goal which killed them off. Big issue is their lack of depth they have. Subs made no impact.

Wexford at times were very good but they have a tendency to fade out of matches completely at times. Did so again after 15 minutes tonight until half time. Came back into the game in the second half and their bench is certainly stronger than in previous campaigns.

cms88

Something imo that holds back the likes of Carlow, Laois, Kerry etc is the shortterm thinking of some of the outside managers who come in. Some come in look to get success within the first year or two and then move on to the next job and do the same again

Mantis Toboggan

cms88 wrote: »

Something imo that holds back the likes of Carlow, Laois, Kerry etc is the shortterm thinking of some of the outside managers who come in. Some come in look to get success within the first year or two and then move on to the next job and do the same again

What do you expect?

Mantis Toboggan

cms88 wrote: »

Laois imo could compete, wouldn't be too far off Wexford and Dublin.

Doubt it, they're not exactly competing under age, Laois beaten by 10 by wexford today in the minor.

C__MC

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Doubt it, they're not exactly competing under age, Laois beaten by 10 by wexford today in the minor.

It would be the usual moral, competing well stories
Burst it for 50 minutes only to lose by ten
Elite hurling only falls to 9 counties

Powerhouse

cms88 wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks it's crazy that Waterfod can lose all their championship games two years in a row and suffer no consequences?

They do suffer consequences. They exit the championship in early June. In a competition where a team could lose three times in their province and still win the All-Ireland I'm not sure if we should be looking to unduly punish a team just because they lose four games in a sport where so few counties are competitive anyway.

The Golden Miller

Cork slowly going up through the gears. 5/1 for the All-Ireland, easy money. A skillful team all about confidence. Get a few wins and they are up and running. Can't out-play them in ball and stick work, so if anyone is to knock them out, they'll have to up the physical side of their game. Go head to head with Cork in an actual open game of hurling, the way it should be played, you're gonna lose (I include Kilkenny in that). The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling if you will. Lost big money of them not winning Liam last year, but confident they'll do it this time

Stacksofwacks

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork slowly going up through the gears. 5/1 for the All-Ireland, easy money. A skillful team all about confidence. Get a few wins and they are up and running. Can't out-play them in ball and stick work, so if anyone is to knock them out, they'll have to up the physical side of their game. Go head to head with Cork in an actual game of hurling, the way it should be played, you're gonna lose. The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling if you will. Lost big money of them not winning Liam last year, but confident they'll do it this time

They have classy forwards in terms of point scoring but I dont think they are a ruthless team that will score goals and put teams to the sword at crucial points in matches. Get to the All Ireland series they will always leave teams hanging in the game with a chance, they need to develop a more ruthless streak otherwise I see other more wily teams snuffing them out

The Golden Miller

cms88 wrote: »

Am i the only one who thinks it's crazy that Waterfod can lose all their championship games two years in a row and suffer no consequences?

True, big holes in the system. A one off game for the provincials should be done away with too, whoever wins the league format should be provincial champions. Otherwise, you can beat a team twice, and still get knocked out by them in a 3rd game in the All-Ireland series. I keep going on about Cork, but they repeatedly beat the same teams in Munster, only for one to come back with a "on the law of averages (play a team enough, they'll beat you eventually, whether they deserve it or not)" game and beat them by the minimum in a semi

The Golden Miller

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

They have classy forwards in terms of point scoring but I dont think they are a ruthless team that will score goals and put teams to the sword at crucial points in matches. Get to the All Ireland series they will always leave teams hanging in the game with a chance, they need to develop a more ruthless streak otherwise I see other more wily teams snuffing them out

Possibly true. 2013, Waterford two years ago, Limerick last year. Ironic, considering Cork were the most "wily" of all closing out games in the past. If they get that psychological monkey off their back and get over the line once, they'll win a few imo

_blaaz

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Possibly true. 2013, Waterford two years ago, Limerick last year. Ironic, considering Cork were the most "wily" of all closing out games in the past. If they get that psychological monkey off their back and get over the line once, they'll win a few imo

They will win nothing with that full back line...if they playing a better team wouldve conceded 4 or 5 goals tonight

windy shepard henderson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

True, big holes in the system. A one off game for the provincials should be done away with too, whoever wins the league should be provincial champions. Otherwise, you can beat a team twice, and still get knocked out by them in a 3rd game in the All-Ireland series. I keep going on about Cork, but they repeatedly beat the same teams in Munster, only for one to come back with a "on the law of averages (play a team enough, they'll beat you eventually, whether they deserve it or not)" game and beat them by the minimum in a semi

the finals wont be done away with , cork brought about 40000 fans to thurles 2 years ago , last year the same fixture it was a bit more balanced but both games went close to 50000 for both games ,gaa will never leave themselves short that would be too much to miss out on

The Golden Miller

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

the finals wont be done away with , cork brought about 40000 fans to thurles 2 years ago , last year the same fixture it was a bit more balanced but both games went close to 50000 for both games ,gaa will never leave themselves short that would be too much to miss out on

I get that, just a bit unfair that you can beat and outplay a team twice, and still get knocked out by them later on

windy shepard henderson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I get that, just a bit unfair that you can beat and outplay a team twice, and still get knocked out by them later on

your 100% right but the gaa are money driven unfortunately

Stacksofwacks

Fairest way would be for 5th in Munster playoff against 5th in Leinster and losers playoff against McDonagh winners. If Waterford get so bad that they lose both games then its a 4 team Munster championship. It would also give Carlow a chance to retain their place for next season.

lim4ev

The Golden Miller wrote: »

True, big holes in the system. A one off game for the provincials should be done away with too, whoever wins the league format should be provincial champions. Otherwise, you can beat a team twice, and still get knocked out by them in a 3rd game in the All-Ireland series. I keep going on about Cork, but they repeatedly beat the same teams in Munster, only for one to come back with a "on the law of averages (play a team enough, they'll beat you eventually, whether they deserve it or not)" game and beat them by the minimum in a semi

If you're referring to Limerick they didn't beat us in munster last yr plus it was on in cork plus limerick were down to 14 after 20 odd minutes plus we'd lost our centre back after 5 minutes

MfMan

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork slowly going up through the gears. 5/1 for the All-Ireland, easy money. A skillful team all about confidence. Get a few wins and they are up and running. Can't out-play them in ball and stick work, so if anyone is to knock them out, they'll have to up the physical side of their game. Go head to head with Cork in an actual open game of hurling, the way it should be played, you're gonna lose (I include Kilkenny in that). The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling if you will. Lost big money of them not winning Liam last year, but confident they'll do it this time

Tipp' minced them a few weeks ago, and unlike Cork with Horgan, aren't reliant on one certain forward. Unlike Tipp' also, Cork haven't the semblance of a defence against the better teams. Their centre back was in the terrace for the opening game.

lim4ev

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Possibly true. 2013, Waterford two years ago, Limerick last year. Ironic, considering Cork were the most "wily" of all closing out games in the past. If they get that psychological monkey off their back and get over the line once, they'll win a few imo

Did you even watch the all ireland semi final last yr? Let limerick in the match? How many open goals did limerick miss one on one?

windy shepard henderson

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Fairest way would be for 5th in Munster playoff against 5th in Leinster and losers playoff against McDonagh winners. If Waterford get so bad that they lose both games then its a 4 team Munster championship. It would also give Carlow a chance to retain their place for next season.

its tough on carlow but in fairness if they had to play waterford , i imagine waterford ould have too much for them anyway , the joe mcdonagh cup is severing its purpose though , teams like westmeath , carlow are getting closer , and antrim and laois have improved had huge improvements ,

i imagine carlow will be back but at the moment the weaker countries are being benefited by this set up , i like westmeath too i think they could be competitive enough in the league next year too

castletownman

The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling?

So essentially up the physical stakes on them, like you are suggesting, and they will wilt under the pressure?

No team that gets beyond the round robin stages will be naive to engage Cork in a shoot-out. Limerick won't be as lethargic again and are already physically superior, and Tipp's backs have the edge too. Dublin would be the sort of abrasive side that could pose them problems as well. And Cody froths at the mouth at the sight of a Cork jersey.

In fact, it would be the first time in my life-time I WOULDN'T be afraid of taking on Cork should Wexford meet them down the line (all going well). The swarmed defence would be just the thing to frustrate Cork's fair weather hurlers.

Stacksofwacks

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

its tough on carlow but in fairness if they had to play waterford , i imagine waterford ould have too much for them anyway , the joe mcdonagh cup is severing its purpose though , teams like westmeath , carlow are getting closer , and antrim and laois have improved had huge improvements ,

i imagine carlow will be back but at the moment the weaker countries are being benefited by this set up , i like westmeath too i think they could be competitive enough in the league next year too

I think the current system is very fair to the McDonagh teams, it gives the top two a place in AI pre-quarter finals whilst playing group matches at their own level

The Golden Miller

castletownman wrote: »

The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling?

So essentially up the physical stakes on them, like you are suggesting, and they will wilt under the pressure?

I played hurling, to a poor enough level. But the way I see it is, you take an aggressive dogmatic approach or a technical approach. Get the sliotar, burst through a man, hit it up the field, and the forward is just as tenacious in receiving it. Or on the other hand, take a split second, and feed a 40 yard pass across the field to an open man who can move it forward with better percentages. The former tactic seems to be how most teams play. I don't think you can excel at both, the ideology runs parallel. The latter is a more precision game, which rely's on confidence, precision and players being in tune with one another, harder to pull off.

Cork play the latter game, the only team who do, they'll always lack that "physical" edge in the modern game, playing how they do. Start slow in the league, uninspiring localities, weather and nothing of worth up for grabs. Head into championship and the ball starts rolling, big crowds and something to play for. Tails up and confidence flowing, get into their rhythm and they'll play you off the field. So far, over the last two or three years, the team has played in patches, second half v Clare, patches against Limerick where they pulled away in the semi. A team gets physical and it can disrupt the rhythm of Cork. But I'd expect them to get to a level of consistency where they can deal with that, either this year or next, and simply take it to a level where they'll outplay whoever over 70 minutes

The Golden Miller

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I think the current system is very fair to the McDonagh teams, it gives the top two a place in AI pre-quarter finals whilst playing group matches at their own level

Do they deserve to be there though? Offaly were laughing when they got relegated, thinking they'd walk into the quaters. Didn't work out for them clearly, but should any team in the McDonagh bypass 6 teams with a harder route who lose out in the provincials?

windy shepard henderson

The Golden Miller wrote: »

I played hurling, to a poor enough level. But the way I see it is, you take an aggressive dogmatic approach or a technical approach. Get the sliotar, burst through a man, hit it up the field, and the forward is just as tenacious in receiving it. Or on the other hand, take a split second, and feed a 40 yard pass across the field to an open man who can move it forward with better percentages. The former tactic seems to be how most teams play. I don't think you can excel at both, the ideology runs parallel. The latter is a more precision game, which rely's on confidence, precision and players being in tune with one another, harder to pull off.

Cork play the latter game, the only team who do, they'll always lack that "physical" edge in the modern game, playing how they do. Start slow in the league, uninspiring localities, weather and nothing of worth up for grabs. Head into championship and the ball starts rolling, big crowds and something to play for. Tails up and confidence flowing, get into their rhythm and they'll play you off the field. So far, over the last two or three years, the team has played in patches, second half v Clare, patches against Limerick where they pulled away in the semi. A team gets physical and it can disrupt the rhythm of Cork. But I'd expect them to get to a level of consistency where they can deal with that, either this year or next, and simply take it to a level where they'll outplay whoever over 70 minutes

great post i played ant junior c and b levels i have the same view in many ways , but i don't think the current short passing game gets enough credit , it must be so hard to play at that speed and play a pass and move game

physicality is massive in hurling , i dont think its down to size but more intent and intensity to win the ball or break a tackle

Stacksofwacks

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Do they deserve to be there though? Offaly were laughing when they got relegated, thinking they'd walk into the quaters. Didn't work out for them clearly, but should any team in the McDonagh bypass 6 teams with a harder route who lose out in the provincials?

I doubt Offaly were laughing at being relegated the proud county they are. I think McDonagh teams deserve a chance at the big teams, upsets will be rare but imagine what a win for say Laois over Wexford would do for hurling in that county

The Golden Miller

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

great post i played ant junior c and b levels i have the same view in many ways , but i don't think the current short passing game gets enough credit , it must be so hard to play at that speed and play a pass and move game

physicality is massive in hurling , i dont think its down to size but more intent and intensity to win the ball or break a tackle

It's just the different culture of hurling in different counties. Cork players are renowned for their stick and ball work, plus their running game. But to do it at the speed of today's game and pull it off, takes incredible skill. It can be hard for Cork when that rhythm gets broken up by a tenacious team, but they either cope with it or continually get edged out

The Golden Miller

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

I doubt Offaly were laughing at being relegated the proud county they are. I think McDonagh teams deserve a chance at the big teams, upsets will be rare but imagine what a win for say Laois over Wexford would do for hurling in that county

Was being factitious when I said Offaly were laughing, but surely they thought it was a great chance to kick off again

Stacksofwacks

So tomorrow I can't see past a KK win at home v Galway. Something not right with Galway lately, they have looked very ordinary without Joe. Similarly I think Limerick will have too much for Clare but it will be a close run thing, whoever loses is pretty much out

slegs

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork slowly going up through the gears. 5/1 for the All-Ireland, easy money. A skillful team all about confidence. Get a few wins and they are up and running. Can't out-play them in ball and stick work, so if anyone is to knock them out, they'll have to up the physical side of their game. Go head to head with Cork in an actual open game of hurling, the way it should be played, you're gonna lose (I include Kilkenny in that). The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling if you will. Lost big money of them not winning Liam last year, but confident they'll do it this time

Yawn

robbiezero

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork slowly going up through the gears. 5/1 for the All-Ireland, easy money. A skillful team all about confidence. Get a few wins and they are up and running. Can't out-play them in ball and stick work, so if anyone is to knock them out, they'll have to up the physical side of their game. Go head to head with Cork in an actual open game of hurling, the way it should be played, you're gonna lose (I include Kilkenny in that). The Barcelona/Brazil of hurling if you will. Lost big money of them not winning Liam last year, but confident they'll do it this time

Tipp completely outplayed them with ball and stick work. Plenty of teams capable of outplaying them also. The main thing that won them the game v Limerick was the savage work rate they brought and the massed defence.
Horgan is a genius, Cadogan a brilliant forward.
Coleman and Fitzgibbon looked brilliant last night but were given acres of room to look good, neither featured v Tipp.

puzl

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Fairest way would be for 5th in Munster playoff against 5th in Leinster and losers playoff against McDonagh winners. If Waterford get so bad that they lose both games then its a 4 team Munster championship. It would also give Carlow a chance to retain their place for next season.

This can't work
Let's say Dublin go down to JMD and the following year Waterford and Wexford come 5th in their provinces with Waterford losing the playoff. Now you have Waterford potentially playing Dublin for a spot in Munster. If Dublin win they are in Munster. Now next year if Waterford win JMD they could be playing for a spot in Leinster.

What you are really proposing is to abandon provincials themselves and have a proper tiered structure based on seeding instead of geography. There's merit in that discussion but it'll never happen, and therefore the current mess of rules and exceptions is what we'll have to live with.

Mantis Toboggan

Looking forward to today's games, we'll know alot more by the end of the day. Galway have the ability to beat kk but it's a while since I've seen them play to their potential. Kk in Nowlan Park are tough to beat and unless Galway up their performance levels significantly you'd have to favour the cats. Will be interesting to see how Galway cope with TJ Reid. McInerney looks the man but I can't see him following TJ everywhere. Maybe Mannion or Loftus would be better suited.

Limerick v Clare looks more clear cut. Limerick really do seem to be on a different level to most having been caught cold in the first game. Physicality they bring is immense and I really don't see any hope for Clare here. Their main men haven't shown up this year and they looked a beaten docket last week. Teams have figured out Clare and they haven't been able to come up with plan B. They have a decent record against Limerick so that might be a factor but I can't look past a Limerick win.

Kk by 2
Limerick by 6

cms88

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

What do you expect?

To give a commitment for something more than their own agenda.

How many of these ''big names'' jump ship at the first sign of trouble? Many do so after one season. Some in fact train clubs outside of the county they train. Would they do this if they managed their own county?