All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

threeball

My biggest gripe with Shefflin was how he consistently fouled the ball, throwing it ahead of him to evade tackles, and got away with it. Towards his later years he was constantly in the refs ear too.

It would be interesting to see how many scores, assists etc. that wouldn't have counted had the proper rule been applied. Indeed it should have cost KK a he'll of a lot of scores through frees for the opposition down through the years.

Joe Daly

threeball wrote: »

My biggest gripe with Shefflin was how he consistently fouled the ball, throwing it ahead of him to evade tackles, and got away with it. Towards his later years he was constantly in the refs ear too.

It would be interesting to see how many scores, assists etc. that wouldn't have counted had the proper rule been applied. Indeed it should have cost KK a he'll of a lot of scores through frees for the opposition down through the years.

So you have two gripes then its funny how bitterness ignorance comes out in people, I wonder in your eyes was he to be blamed for the jab he got to the eye region v clare 2004 the proper rules were not addressed to the clare player that evening. A certain player had not the courtesy for the kilkenny team doctor to deal with his injury.

TheMilkyPirate

Limerick semi final on Saturday the 27th July. Wexford semi final Sunday 28th July.

Powerhouse

C__MC wrote: »

He stil set up the winner for Martin comeford in 2003, physical advantage or not

To be fair, this is the most bland debate I could ever imagine and does little for me. I could hardly care less. Some other poster made a fairly strong case and I simply point out that, yes, there is a potential argument against the hyping up of Shefflin. For some reason everyone has now ignored the original poster and are assuming I really really care!!!!

But I will deal with this one...………...seriously...……...every score comes from a ball played to them by someone else at some stage. It hardly amount to a compelling case. But I don't give a f*ck either way to be honest. I just wouldn't be prepared to go tit for tat with a dozen people on this. But this point was particularly weak. Like no one is saying that Shefflin didn't hit a ball just that his contribution in a key game was not in line with his subsequent reputation. Not everyone will agree but again who cares?

corner back 2

Powerhouse wrote: »

To be fair, this is the most bland debate I could ever imagine and does little for me. I could hardly care less. Some other poster made a fairly strong case and I simply point out that, yes, there is a potential argument against the hyping up of Shefflin. For some reason everyone has now ignored the original poster and are assuming I really really care!!!!

But I will deal with this one...………...seriously...……...every score comes from a ball played to them by someone else at some stage. It hardly amount to a compelling case. But I don't give a f*ck either way to be honest. I just wouldn't be prepared to go tit for tat with a dozen people on this. But this point was particularly weak. Like no one is saying that Shefflin didn't hit a ball just that his contribution in a key game was not in line with his subsequent reputation. Not everyone will agree but again who cares?

Says the man who keeps the debate going in a thread about this years hurling championship!

Bonniedog

This debate reminds me a bit of my Da who is of Tipp extraction and can be provoked into paroxysms of rage by myself or the brother offering an opinion such as:

"I'd say Jimmy Doyle wouldn't have caught a ball against Tommy Walsh."


Mighty fun for the Winter. Meanwhile, as a distraction there is the 2019 championship...

threeball

Joe Daly wrote: »

So you have two gripes then its funny how bitterness ignorance comes out in people, I wonder in your eyes was he to be blamed for the jab he got to the eye region v clare 2004 the proper rules were not addressed to the clare player that evening. A certain player had not the courtesy for the kilkenny team doctor to deal with his injury.

What has this rambling nonsense got to do with the point of my post. Did he or did he not consistently throw the ball ahead of himself when he was getting closed down.

What that has to do with a foul on him in 2004 is anyones guess.

letsseehere14

Anybody think Laois can worry Dublin this weekend or is it a step too far to turn around after last weeks final exertions?

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Laois won their group (competition), Dublin didn't. Its Laois who should be facing into this game with a nice three weeks break in matches for preparation behind them, not Dublin

D9Male

This is very true. Any chance of an upset is diminished by the quick turnaround.

I think the new format for the hurling championship and provincial leagues has been a big success. But a few tweaks here and there are still needed.

Bonniedog

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Laois won their group (competition), Dublin didn't. Its Laois who should be facing into this game with a nice three weeks break in matches for preparation behind them, not Dublin

Laois were relegated from the senior competition and did well after two years to regain their status.


That ought to be their reward, rather than to have to play another game a week later. Same applies to Westmeath, except that they have nothing to show for their effort.


Arguably McDonagh winners should not have to play a preliminary quarter final, but ought to be allowed enjoy their achievement.


Congress voted for this. it is not another trick to facilitate Dublin, if that is your insinuation.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Bonniedog wrote: »

Laois were relegated from the senior competition and did well after two years to regain their status.


That ought to be their reward, rather than to have to play another game a week later. Same applies to Westmeath, except that they have nothing to show for their effort.


Arguably McDonagh winners should not have to play a preliminary quarter final, but ought to be allowed enjoy their achievement.


Congress voted for this. it is not another trick to facilitate Dublin, if that is your insinuation.

No, i didn't mean that at all, i would have this opinion if they were playing my own county. Not an anti-Dublin thing at all

Bonniedog

Apologies. Too early!

Of course, Laois might beat Dublin. There were only two points between us in the league, and they stayed up.

However, you would imagine they and Westies peaked for last Sunday whereas Dublin and Cork are coming into it rested after doing relatively well against the better teams.


Promotion is a brilliant idea, but the play offs seem rather pointless to me. Even get impression listening to people from Laois that they'd nearly prefer just taking their promotion and looking ahead to next year.

And whatever about Laois, Westmeath can hardly be looking forward to their game for any good reason!

grbear

A few possible tweaks:

-Expand Leinster and possibly the Joe McDonagh to six teams

-Give Kerry the same promotion chance as everyone else. If that means they end up playing in Leinster for a year then so be it. The current system is a mess and will fall apart if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh.

-If Kerry maintain their position in a six team Leinster championship for an extended period (3-5 years) then move them into Munster. I'll admit thats a fudge but I think it's better than what we have now

-Make the final the season end for Joe McDonagh teams

-Instead of having preliminary quarter finals this weekend leave it open for the Joe McDonagh final

mountgomery burns

Neither Laois nor Westmeath should be playing this weekend. Makes no sense at all.

bloodless_coup

Either of these games to be shown anywhere?

PTH2009

grbear wrote: »

A few possible tweaks:

-Expand Leinster and possibly the Joe McDonagh to six teams

-Give Kerry the same promotion chance as everyone else. If that means they end up playing in Leinster for a year then so be it. The current system is a mess and will fall apart if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh.

-If Kerry maintain their position in a six team Leinster championship for an extended period (3-5 years) then move them into Munster. I'll admit thats a fudge but I think it's better than what we have now

-Make the final the season end for Joe McDonagh teams

-Instead of having preliminary quarter finals this weekend leave it open for the Joe McDonagh final

Think we need to make this championship more of an All Ireland one than Provincial imo

My idea run off the Munster and Leinster championships in a knockout style (ramdon draw im doing here)
Munster-
Qf- Cork vs Clare (Clare win)
SF- Limerick vs Waterford (LIM)
SF- Clare vs Tipp (Tipp)
F- Limerick vs Tipp (LIM)

Leinster
Qf- Wexford vs Carlow (Wexford win)
Sf- Kilkenny vs Dublin (Kil)
Sf- Wexford vs Galway (Wex)
F- Kilkenny vs Wexford (Wex)

then after that have 2x groups of 5 and each team plays 4 games each

Group 1
Leinster champs
Munster Runners up
one of the Leinster semi finalists
one of the munster semi finalists
Munster losing Quarter finalist

Group 2
Munster champs
Leinster Runners up
One of the Munster semi finalists
One of the Leinster semi finalists
Leinster losing Quarter finalist

No All Ireland Quarter finals
Top 2 in each group go through to the All Ireland Semi finals
1st Grp 1 vs 2nd Grp 2
1st Grp 2 vs 2nd Grp 1

Relagation Playoff- 5th Grp 1 vs 5th Grp 2
Joe Mcdonagh winner Promoted in losers place for the following year

I knw this system would seem a nightmare on the calender but it can be done and ill do it in a 2020 calender

Weekend of
9th/10th May- Munster and Leinster QFS
16th/17th May- Munster and Leinster SFs
31st May- Munster and Leinster finals
13th/14th June- Grp Matchday 1 (Prov champs week off)
20th/21st June- Grp Matchday 2 (Random draw for who gets week off)
27th/28th June- Grp Matchday 3 (Random draw for who gets week off)
4th/5th July- Grp Matchday 4 (Random draw for who gets week off)
11th/12th July- Grp Matchday 5 (Random draw for who gets week off)
18th/19th July- Relagation match
25th/26th July- All Ireland semi finals
16th Aug- All Ireland final

somespud

Nice bit of thought and work put into it but having a team play four weeks in a row(provincial champions in the example above)is no better than whats there already.The All Ireland final should be switched back to September then you would have calender space.

average_runner

somespud wrote: »

Nice bit of thought and work put into it but having a team play four weeks in a row(provincial champions in the example above)is no better than whats there already.The All Ireland final should be switched back to September then you would have calender space.

pushing out to Sept would mean lim and wex not playing for 4 weeks

Justin10

somespud wrote: »

Nice bit of thought and work put into it but having a team play four weeks in a row(provincial champions in the example above)is no better than whats there already.The All Ireland final should be switched back to September then you would have calender space.

That's easy to say, but then you've club championships to run off. Which be nearly impossible in some cases if the final went to a replay.

Laois and Westmeath shouldnt be in the All Ireland series.

Madness that Westmeath can lose the final and go further then Galway for example. Getting a final and promotion should be reward enough.

Ideally you'd expand the Leinster championship to 6 so there isn't a constant yoyo team.

Problem with the championship is Munster won't accept any changes.

grbear

I don't think the Championship needs massive restructuring, just a willingness to tweak one or two things.

In that restructure the provincial championships would be reduced to little more than a warm up competition.

The new setup for the hurling league already looks like it's devaluing that competition so I wouldn't be in favour of diluting the provincial competitions as well.

topnotch

If Cork concede any goals today they will not go much further in the championship imho. The performance of the full back line and goalkeeper needs to improve dramatically.

ShamoBuc

topnotch wrote: »

If Cork concede any goals today they will not go much further in the championship imho. The performance of the full back line and goalkeeper needs to improve dramatically.

Whatever they concede today wont be an issue, as long as they win. They should win by a handy scoreline. Every team concedes goals, our full back line creaks a lot, that's not going to change by next week. Our keeper is a very good shot stopper but his puckout strategy is seriously annoying. If we get over today, which we should, kilkenny will be a tough game but all things considered I think Cork could well win that, Kilkenny have their own problems. Once you get to the semi stage anything can happen.

munsterlegend

topnotch wrote: »

If Cork concede any goals today they will not go much further in the championship imho. The performance of the full back line and goalkeeper needs to improve dramatically.

Surely depends on the manner of the goals conceded and when! Any team can concede a goal especially hurling. A player can slip, goalie drop a ball it happens without much fault.

I would look at the amount of goal chances conceded to be honest.

Bonniedog

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Whatever they concede today wont be an issue, as long as they win.

Think that will be attitude on both Cork and Dublin's side,


It is a means to an end. total absolute fkn disaster for either to lose, and minor disaster if it leads to injuries to key players.


Two games to be put to bed early, then move on.

munsterlegend

Bonniedog wrote: »

Think that will be attitude on both Cork and Dublin's side,


It is a means to an end. total absolute fkn disaster for either to lose, and minor disaster if it leads to injuries to key players.


Two games to be put to bed early, then move on.

Laois are a handy team who are well coached. Dublin will win but Laois will battle hard. I can’t see Westmeath getting within 10 of Cork.

Bonniedog

munsterlegend wrote: »

Laois are a handy team who are well coached. Dublin will win but Laois will battle hard. I can’t see Westmeath getting within 10 of Cork.

Laois are a better team than Westies. No doubt, and better team than Carlow and with another season of league one behind them will put up a better fight to stay in Leinster.

But, having beaten Galway, anything less than a win would be huge setback for Dublin.

Only concern about margin would be that a dogfight could lead to injuries.

Nic_Col

Effectively two challenge matches today; main priority for Dublin and Cork is to do enough to win and no more, keep enough in the tank for next weekend and end the day without having picked up any injuries.

It says something about the standing of this qualifier round that the focus of discussion this week on this thread was the (frankly ridiculous in my opinion) debate on Henry Shefflin's stature.

It's difficult to justify these games when even the manager of one of the McDonagh Cup finalists has called these two games out as tokenism.

Mahony0509

Cork leading 23pts to 7pts in first half

Nic_Col

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Cork leading 23pts to 7pts in first half

And still a few minutes to go until half time. They could rack up 40+ points

Mantis Toboggan

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Cork leading 23pts to 7pts in first half

And people want the provinces moved to 6 teams! Standard in the Joe McDonagh is really poor.

Condenser

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Cork leading 23pts to 7pts in first half

That is the most hair brained idea having Mcdonagh teams come in at quarter final stage. A year where westmeath or Laois feel they have achieved something but just in case they get above their station we'll give them a hockeying to round out the year.

Seadin

Condenser wrote: »

That is the most hair brained idea having Mcdonagh teams come in at quarter final stage. A year where westmeath or Laois feel they have achieved something but just in case they get above their station we'll give them a hockeying to round out the year.

0-24 to 0-07 at the break.

RMAOK

Seadin wrote: »

0-24 to 0-07 at the break.

Pointless stuff tbh

Nic_Col

Another two points in the first two minutes of the second half for Cork. They could set some kind of record here.

Stacksofwacks

Record score over the bar in championship was set by Waterford V Offaly in 2017(35 pts), Cork look on course to break that today

Nic_Col

Waterford registered 35 white flags against Offaly in a qualifier game two or three years ago. As far as I'm aware that's the record, will definitely be broken here.

Edit; beaten to it by Stacksofwacks!

Mahony0509

Cork lead 1-36 to 0-19 with 7 mins remaining

TheMilkyPirate

Will they hit 1-40? Still conceding a lot though it has to be said 0-20 for westmeath now.

Nic_Col

At least Laois are so far putting it up to Dublin. How long will it last though?

Stacksofwacks

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Will they hit 1-40? Still conceding a lot though it has to be said 0-20 for westmeath now.

Cork have great forwards but their defence is rank, will cost them later on one feels

Mahony0509

Cork 1-40 to 0-20 FT

Seadin

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

Will they hit 1-40? Still conceding a lot though it has to be said 0-20 for westmeath now.

They hit 1-40 but still conceding 20 points is too much to a team like Westmeath.

Nic_Col

Laois 1-6 to 0-3 up though!

Mahony0509

Seadin wrote: »

They hit 1-40 but still conceding 20 points is too much to a team like Westmeath.

That back 6 will not be starting vs KK next week.

STB.

Meanwhile at O'Moore Park


25 mins gone. Laois 1-8 Dublin 0-7

Mahony0509

Been saying all week Laois are a great team

champchamp

Such a shame it's not being broadcast anywhere...

Mahony0509

Laois by 7 now

STB.

champchamp wrote: »

Such a shame it's not being broadcast anywhere...

Its on the radio. Midlands radio.


http://icy-e-04.sharp-stream.com/midlands103.mp3.m3u


Half time. Laois 1-12 0-10 Dublin.


Dubs - 9 wides.