All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

windy shepard henderson

road_high wrote: »

There’s a perception by some Kilkenny haters that the county is an English bastion due to its history of landed gentry and long association with British rule in Ireland. Without sounding too paranoid possibly the subtle angle of derision Cusack was aiming for given the weekend that was in it
And historically Kilkenny had a large cricket tradition bizarrely enough played vs local estate workers that translated into hurling at the end of the 19th century with the revival of Gaelic games!

i am aware of certain counties my own included that had strong cricket connections in that era , kilkenny did have big connections in that time , i never taught about putting the 2 together between himself and kilkenny on the show tonight but it dose add up :eek: , on saturday night before the limerick game he held kilkenny in the same esteam a joe mcdonagh cup team :rolleyes:

Fast Twitch

Also counties like Laois and Kilkenny weren't overly active in the War of Independence as proximity of RIC barracks and towns. No stretches of wild countryside and hills.

Laois and Kilkenny were hotbeds of agraian violence in the 1830s tithe war. More crimes per head of population than anywhere in Ireland. Note the Carrigshock Incident, google if you like. By the end of the 1800s/early 1900s the counties' middle classes had largely gotten what they wanted..namely land, under the various Land Purchase acts like Wyndham and Balfour etc. Hence they were happy enough with their lot. Poorer counties were often more active in the W of Independence.

Noveight

Car99 wrote: »

Tipp keeper had to puck the ball out anyways , what difference did it make catching it in the air just after it went over the crossbar and pucking it out or retrieving it from behind the goal afterwards and pucking it out?

Huge difference in player positioning all over the field between a goalie clearing a ball and taking a puck out after a break in play.

Only option was to bring play back, could have happened to any ref really but today it added to Cleere’s misfortune.

road_high

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i am aware of certain counties my own included that had strong cricket connections in that era , kilkenny did have big connections in that time , i never taught about putting the 2 together between himself and kilkenny on the show tonight but it dose add up :eek: , on saturday night before the limerick game he held kilkenny in the same esteam a joe mcdonagh cup team :rolleyes:

I think he still does- that 65 was crucial to the game didn’t ya know?

road_high

Fast Twitch wrote: »

It's all relative. Cork gave Queen Victoria a massive reception when she visited in 1900. The city was known as loyal Cork. Bedecked in Union Jacks and red, white and blue. West Cork was strong fenian country alright. However the tide turned in Cork City as it did nationally post 1916, conscription crisis, 1918 election etc.

Off track here completely but needed to psychoanalyse Cusacks musings- Kilkenny was the same in 1904 - put on a very big Union Jack display for king Edward I think it was, one if the last major royal visits pre independence. Seemed to be very little dissention at the time

Stacksofwacks

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

to be fair i like the idea of managers or ex managers coming on tv and giving detailed insights to what went on

the big issue is however , with davey from a clare point of view , and in your case waterford with mcgrath is when system A fails there rarely seems to be a system B or plan B

tipperary and kilkenny are in this years final because they able to adapt in games and change there style or system to suite the situation

i think cummins was trying to get that point across but was shot down regularly, guys like ,, liam sheedy , brian cody and eamon o'shea have been proven as better managers in terms of sideline management and reacting to a situation , to be fair though mcgrath is a very impressive man to listen to a bit like fitz he sells himself well the media

In fairness to McGrath, while you might not agree with how he views the game, his level of detail is unreal. I agree his reactions on the sideline werent always the best either and needed everything preplanned to a tee and if that didnt work we were usually in trouble. I see you might be looking for a manager in Clare, McGrath might suit ye as he likes to shape a team around a marquee player like Tony Kelly like he did with Austin Gleeson, who he got the best out of.

windy shepard henderson

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

In fairness to McGrath, while you might not agree with how he views the game, his level of detail is unreal. I agree his reactions on the sideline werent always the best either and needed everything preplanned to a tee and if that didnt work we were usually in trouble. I see you might be looking for a manager in Clare, McGrath might suit ye as he likes to shape a team around a marquee player like Tony Kelly like he did with Austin Gleeson, who he got the best out of.

i wouldn't stand in his way but there are too many traditionalists up here that would be furious with his style of play clare club hurling is still all swashbuckle and fistpumps which the older lads love we need to move with the times first maybe 2040 he will be welcomed

Stacksofwacks

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

i wouldn't stand in his way but there are too many traditionalists up here that would be furious with his style of play clare club hurling is still all swashbuckle and fistpumps which the older lads love we need to move with the times first maybe 2040 he will be welcomed

Yeah exactly of you take him on you'd better be prepared for a divided county, the McGraths and anti-McGraths

Fast Twitch

road_high wrote: »

Off track here completely but needed to psychoanalyse Cusacks musings- Kilkenny was the same in 1904 - put on a very big Union Jack display for king Edward I think it was, one if the last major royal visits pre independence. Seemed to be very little dissention at the time

Indeed. True of much of the country.

windy shepard henderson

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

Yeah exactly of you take him on you'd better be prepared for a divided county, the McGraths and anti-McGraths

we still have that with fitz , loads of lads want him back because of his track record

loads of people want nothing to do with him after the last time in charge , to be fair both really need a plan b to go with plan A ,in order to match the sheedys and codys of the hurling world

windy shepard henderson

Fast Twitch wrote: »

Indeed. True of much of the country.

road_high wrote: »

Off track here completely but needed to psychoanalyse Cusacks musings- Kilkenny was the same in 1904 - put on a very big Union Jack display for king Edward I think it was, one if the last major royal visits pre independence. Seemed to be very little dissention at the time

hindsight is a mighty thing to have now , but at that time ireland had gone from 3rd world level to prosperity also the country was enjoying a new level of education and religious freedom from what there grandparents would have been used to

its a dig at kilkenny by cusack , its also a bad dig at the rest of the country back then too

Stacksofwacks

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

we still have that with fitz , loads of lads want him back because of his track record

loads of people want nothing to do with him after the last time in charge , to be fair both really need a plan b to go with plan A ,in order to match the sheedys and codys of the hurling world

The Sheedys and Codys have more natural hurlers and a tradition of finding ways to win big matches. Watching Wexford today reminded me of ourselves in Waterford in '98. The whole county was on cloud 9 and couldnt believe we were playing in AI semi final in Croke Park. We lost a game to KK by a point that we should have won. We then proceeded to lose a number of AI semi finals and the romance died as expectations rose. I'm straying from the point but these opportunites dont come by that often and that was a game(and AI possibly) thrown away by Wexford today. Its great to see a crowd roaring a team on and not being overly devastated at losing but the big so called traditional teams ave it in their DNA to suss out that kind of thing

Fast Twitch

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

hindsight is a mighty thing to have now , but at that time ireland had gone from 3rd world level to prosperity also the country was enjoying a new level of education and religious freedom from what there grandparents would have been used to

its a dig at kilkenny by cusack , its also a bad dig at the rest of the country back then too

Well prosperity might be stretching it. Still famine in 1890. But yes, the Penal Lawls were well gone, the COI disestablished in 1870, land being bought. So certain parts of the country were relatively content. You had the Skibereens and the Western Seaboard, Dublin inner city etc where people weren't so well off.

But D og Cusack is well able to manipulate history for a cheap shot. Loves his soundbites.

windy shepard henderson

Fast Twitch wrote: »

Well prosperity might be stretching it. Still famine in 1890. But yes, the Penal Lawls were well gone, the COI disestablished in 1870, land being bought. So certain parts of the country were relatively content. You had the Skibereens and the Western Seaboard, Dublin inner city etc where people weren't so well off.

But D og Cusack is well able to manipulate history for a cheap shot. Loves his soundbites.

to be fair changes were taken place , between 1900 and say the war of independence things were starting to change but yes it is a cheap shot ,

Realt Dearg Sec

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

we still have that with fitz , loads of lads want him back because of his track record

loads of people want nothing to do with him after the last time in charge , to be fair both really need a plan b to go with plan A ,in order to match the sheedys and codys of the hurling world

The Sheedys and Codys have more natural hurlers and a tradition of finding ways to win big matches. Watching Wexford today reminded me of ourselves in Waterford in '98. The whole county was on cloud 9 and couldnt believe we were playing in AI semi final in Croke Park. We lost a game to KK by a point that we should have won. We then proceeded to lose a number of AI semi finals and the romance died as expectations rose. I'm straying from the point but these opportunites dont come by that often and that was a game(and AI possibly) thrown away by Wexford today. Its great to see a crowd roaring a team on and not being overly devastated at losing but the big so called traditional teams ave it in their DNA to suss out that kind of thing

Yeah you want to say "oh Wexford will be back next year" or whatever but there's no guarantees, opportunities are not guaranteed, especially with how competitive the provincial championships are now. Big matches are there to be won, and anyone who subscribes to the "you have to lose one to win one" mantra should talk to any top Waterford player from the last twenty years about what that gets you. I hope they're back next year. They are a massive addition to the championship, probably the best fans in it and they bring huge excitement and you couldn't but want them to win it all.

But there's no getting away from it: they should have won today, and they left it behind them. They're not guaranteed another chance to redeem that. Plenty of other teams will be feeling the same way next year.

1984baby

We can blame Sheedy and Eddie Brennan for those 2 clowns on tv tonight 😂😂. They were obviously brought in the replace them when the lads went back into management !!

citykat

Ken McGrath mentioned on Saturday how many AI semis he had lost. Can't remember the number but i just thought **** me that's not right.

Powerhouse

Stacksofwacks wrote: »

In fairness to McGrath, while you might not agree with how he views the game, his level of detail is unreal.

I'm not sure this is as impressive a characteristic as it might seem. There is a thin line between attention to detail and getting tangled up in over-analysing things which are not so important, and lacking the ability to identify precisely what is really important and what is not.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

Cusacks jibe about John Bull mentality and English influence is complete nonsense.
What is killing Cusack is for all his talk of how hurling has changed with new tactics as we end the 2010s it is tipp and Kilkenny largely playing the same they always have in the final

It is killing him

LuckyGent88

I missed the full show last night but was there any discussion at all on the hawk eye point that Wexford got. I’m fully convinced it wasn’t over the bar and didn’t need Hawkeye to tell me that.

Does Hawkeye actually tell if a sliotar goes over the crossbar like goalline technology?
Did it just follow the path of the ball and not indicate the point at which it was caught?

lawred2

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

I missed the full show last night but was there any discussion at all on the hawk eye point that Wexford got. I’m fully convinced it wasn’t over the bar and didn’t need Hawkeye to tell me that.

Does Hawkeye actually tell if a sliotar goes over the crossbar like goalline technology?
Did it just follow the path of the ball and not indicate the point at which it was caught?

I'd like to see some real implementation detail on Hawkeye.. Can it detect like in football with goal line technology if the ball has crossed the line? Or is it as you said trajectory and momentum based?

Pigeon Chaser

No discussion about it. For the most part the panel discussed various Waterford games Derek McGrath was involved in. Dónal Óg shoehorned in some prerehearsed stuff about sweepers too. Really insightful stuff.

threeball

After the show McGrath and Cusack donned their smoking jacket, retired to the green room where they enjoyed a glass of Cognac while filling their pipe with some Larsson Hand pressed tobacco and discussed the finer points off hurling whilst using Brendan and Des as footstools.

elefant

Grats wrote: »

Cusack was dropped from various positions after his miscalculated letter of reference. The only one he has managed to worm his way back into is RTE. He clearly has no shame as he has some neck to criticise anybody after his own failings. RTE should never have brought him back.

I'm shocked a man of such excellent judgment could be a bad analyst.

It's actually a disgrace he has any sort of public profile in the GAA after what he did. His ilk should be made pariahs by the organisation. Mickey Harte is another that should be in the wilderness.

Bob Harris

The game of hurling doesn't lend itself to overly detailed analysis. When the likes of Donal Og and McGrath do that it sounds like it's more for themselves than the viewer.

threeball

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see some real implementation detail on Hawkeye.. Can I detect like in football with goal line technology if the ball has crossed the line? Or is it as you said trajectory and momentum based?

I had a post on this earlier. from what I've read its four cameras that measure 26m above the crossbar and 4m either side of the post. No mention of depth perception or goal line technology.

Powerhouse

Last Stop wrote: »

The majority of Kilkenny people will tell you Sean Cleere is not a good referee so while he is not highly rated, having watch TSG and been at the match today, I think as much as Tipp will feel aggrieved he was correct on all the major decisions.
1. Ref blew for a push on O’Hanlon. Hand on back + O’Hanlon going down gives ref little choice. Tipp play on after whistle and ball is in net. Goal was not disallowed as whistle had been blown.
2. Hawkeye official tells him to go back and look at previous point. Approx 30 secs passes between catch and the goal. Hawkeye takes time to process the data from the sensors so it does take time and is definitely not instant as others have suggested. Does Hawkeye track the ball as it crosses the end line as well as if it goes between the post? I’d assume so or I’d be looking for my money back if I was the GAA. The graphic was poor but from watching TSG it APPEARED to be the correct decision. Ironically if he has booked the Wexford player for the high challenge, Tipp wouldn’t have taken the quick free...
3. Some people moaned about using Hawkeye too much when 2 shots were called one after the other. If we get to that sort of ****e then we may as well not have it. The first one was just inside the post and the other went over the post. It has genuinely amazed me how close the majority of points that go to Hawkeye are with a significant number going over the posts. I think umpires deserve more credit then they are given based on the graphics I’ve seen since it was introduced.
4. For the Tipp “penalty” again I would say it was the correct decision. The decision was made when the ball was in the air as Callanan was being held. Based on this there was no way of knowing if advantage was going to occur. Unfortunately Tipp would have had a major advantage has he let play go on but he’s an average referee so we can’t expect him to do superhuman things like see the future can we? He blew for a penalty from his view and based on consultation with the umpires gave a free as the foul was outside the area. 100% correct decision and protocol.
5. Lee Chin scored 6 frees in the whole match so the mantra of Wexford getting soft frees doesn’t make sense.
6. The sending off was correct as very few will argue, McGrath was incredibly stupid to do it in the first place.
7. The punch was off the ball so if he didn’t see it, he didn’t see it. Nothing he can do.

On a negative note, Cleere did miss the opportunity to book a number of Wexford players for high challenges.

Interesting how you don't consider the failure to allow the advantage in the case of Jake Morris's goal or the failure to disallow Wexford's third goal as "major decisions" and as a result not worthy of mention. I note that Brian Gavin, a refereeing expert and a genuinely neutral observer, regards both these decisions as wrong. That's an extra five points which might have more accurately reflected the clipping Wexford got in the last 20 minutes yesterday.

And this one itself makes no sense - 5. Lee Chin scored 6 frees in the whole match so the mantra of Wexford getting soft frees doesn’t make sense. The number of frees a team gets has nothing to do arguments about whether they are soft or not. You might get just one free and it could be a wrong call.

As aside...…...I'd say there was a fair few who at 2-18 to 1-16, had their "Munster hurling me a*se" comments ready and now have had to pipe down!!!

Bob Harris

lawred2 wrote: »

I'd like to see some real implementation detail on Hawkeye.. Can I detect like in football with goal line technology if the ball has crossed the line? Or is it as you said trajectory and momentum based?

The graphic in the match would lead you to thinking it was a yard byond the bar when it was caught. In TV replays it was very marginal. I think the game was too far gone when they pulled it back and the Tipp goal should have stood.
How long do you leave things go before stopping the game?

0byme75341jo28

Cole Sour Report wrote: »

The amount of bullsh*t we have to tolerate as hurling supporters. Referees can't be criticised because they do it for free, players can't be punished because it would be a 'shame for an amateur to get a suspension'. Willful ignorance of the steps rule from all corners. Rule bending commonplace.

I honestly think hurling at the highest level needs to be treated as if it's professional. We need a VAR equivalent in Championship, strict enforcement of rules or the tweaking of rules such as steps to actually make it enforceable without ruining the spectacle of the game. There should be clear protocol for incidents like that Hawkeye decision before Tipp's disallowed goal - never should that have went down the way it did.

As a side note - the grabbing of the opponents hurley to win a free is a scourge and something should really be done about it.

Same story again in the Sunday Game last night. Dirty strike from John McGrath - clear violent conduct. But sure he shouldn't miss the final it'd be a shame for him.

Tough.

Donal Óg says 20 seconds previous it has no place in our game, how on Earth do they expect to get rid of it if there aren't severe punishments for clear violent conduct?

0byme75341jo28

LuckyGent88 wrote: »

I missed the full show last night but was there any discussion at all on the hawk eye point that Wexford got. I’m fully convinced it wasn’t over the bar and didn’t need Hawkeye to tell me that.

Does Hawkeye actually tell if a sliotar goes over the crossbar like goalline technology?
Did it just follow the path of the ball and not indicate the point at which it was caught?

Is there any publicly available information on the accuracy of Hawkeye? The margin of error? It's obviously not really an issue usually but when the ball goes over the posts a matter of centimeters could make all the difference.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

Cole Sour Report wrote: »

Same story again in the Sunday Game last night. Dirty strike from John McGrath - clear violent conduct. But sure he shouldn't miss the final it'd be a shame for him.

Tough.

Donal Óg says 20 seconds previous it has no place in our game, how on Earth do they expect to get rid of it if there aren't severe punishments for clear violent conduct?

it is clear mcgrath hit the hurley and the wexford player did a little acting
the wexford player goes down holding his forearm, because of the wexford players body position to mcgrath, it was impossible for mcgrath to hit that position.
i encourage you to re watch the moment.

Powerhouse

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

But there's no getting away from it: they should have won today, and they left it behind them.

Wexford certainly didn't leave it behind them. Yes, the had the advantage of an extra man and they had a substantial lead at five points but they were outhurled in the last 20 minutes 0-12 to 0-2 if you leave out their third goal which should have been disallowed. Teams which should have won are not outgunned by this much in the last quarter of a match.

If any team left it behind them it was Limerick in deciding to take pot-shots from out the field in the second-half when they had gotten on top instead of relying on their normal game.

kala85

klose wrote: »

How did cathal Barrett lose his helmet? Another possible red. Ref should be put to pasture.

A mystery. Maybe he didn't put it on properly.

I was at the game and no other player was near him when it fell off unless the straps were loosened just before that play and barret continued on.

TheMilkyPirate

As a Wexford man I found it hard to take it all in yesterday. Today it is coming in and I'm distraught. Tipperary were the better team and fair play to them they deserve to be in the final but Jesus.. 2-18 to 1-16 a man up the crowd roaring and the wind in your sails. To be out scored 0-12 to 0-02 after that just isn't good enough at all and is so hard to take. I agree with the previous poster we didn't leave it behind we just werent good enough in those last 20.

dmakc

Car99 wrote: »

With reference to the Hawkeye point and the subsequent disallowed Tipp goal , why couldn't the ref award tipp the goal and award wexford the point .

Tipp keeper had to puck the ball out anyways , what difference did it make catching it in the air just after it went over the crossbar and pucking it out or retrieving it from behind the goal afterwards and pucking it out?

In a situation where the keeper batted it out from over the bar rather than catch it and a Wexford man gets a goal on the rebound - are we to allow a 4-point score?

I think you have to call the game dead in fairness. Not a fan of playing dead minutes where anyone can suffer an injury at any time however. Maybe leave the "crossing the bar" argument to the human eye with margin for error - do we even know if the whole ball or a fraction of the ball has to cross what point of the crossbar? Definitely didn't seem like the whole ball was over the entire bar.

Bob Harris

TheMilkyPirate wrote: »

As a Wexford man I found it hard to take it all in yesterday. Today it is coming in and I'm distraught. Tipperary were the better team and fair play to them they deserve to be in the final but Jesus.. 2-18 to 1-16 a man up the crowd roaring and the wind in your sails. To be out scored 0-12 to 0-02 after that just isn't good enough at all and is so hard to take. I agree with the previous poster we didn't leave it behind we just werent good enough in those last 20.

There was too long left in the game to say it was left behind but they did squander a winning position. It looked for all the world that they'd start knocking over points from all angles and win comfortably. I don't know if they got complacent or finish line nerves but as much as Tipp won it, there is certainly an element of Wexford losing it.

C__MC

Bob Harris wrote: »

There was too long left in the game to say it was left behind but they did squander a winning position. It looked for all the world that they'd start knocking over points from all angles and win comfortably. I don't know if they got complacent or finish line nerves but as much as Tipp won it, there is certainly an element of Wexford losing it.

Tipp upped their workrate in second half, the wexford running game was dismantled. The legs went on wexford around 50 mins as well as spaces opened up: tipp clipped over a few easy points. Tipp became more composed and deserved it.

_blaaz

C__MC wrote: »

Tipp upped their workrate in second half, the wexford running game was dismantled. The legs went on wexford around 50 mins as well as spaces opened up: tipp clipped over a few easy points. Tipp became more composed and deserved it.

I was suprised wexfors didnt bring lee chin out to try get him into the game tbh....would felt he been worth few points

jr86

The toughest bit to take for Wexford is that a day like yesterday may be a long time coming around again

They'll probably go into the 2020 Championship as the 3rd favourites to even win their province

In 2017 they had a famous win v KK, but were well beaten by Galway and were knocked out in the quarters by Waterford

In 2018 they were once again well beaten by Galway and blew a good winning position against Kilkenny. They exited tamely enough against Clare in the quarters.

In the last three seasons they have failed to beat Galway, Dublin, Clare, Waterford, Kilkenny, and Tipperary in individual matches. They have beaten just Kilkenny and Dublin in that time.

Yesterday they were playing Tipp fresh off a hammering in Munster (with all due respect Laois is not ideal preparation). They were 5 up with a man extra, and were extremely there for the taking. They would then face the one top team they have gotten the better of in recent years. It was set up for a Clare 2013-like victory

tibruit

windy shepard henderson wrote: »

we still have that with fitz , loads of lads want him back because of his track record

loads of people want nothing to do with him after the last time in charge , to be fair both really need a plan b to go with plan A ,in order to match the sheedys and codys of the hurling world

The problem with the sweeper system is that there is no plan B. If you start with a sweeper from the outset and you find yourself 8 points down, what options have you? Do you revert to the old methods that you`ve initially rejected? Davey was upset yesterday that his players didn`t stick to the plan after the sending off and it`s ironic that if Wexford had parked the bus when they were 5 points and a man up, just as they`ve been doing from the throw in all year, then they might have held out and got a result.

There is no longevity in employing a sweeper. It all looks fine and dandy in the spring on a heavy pitch but it`s hard to stick to the plan when a game opens up and the sliotar is flying around Croke Park in July or August. It can work as a short term stop-gap as it did to a degree for Limerick on Saturday when it looked like the game was going to be over at half time if they didn`t do something to stop KK from scoring. The panel in RTE last night was made up of two proponents of a failed ideology and they were given a platform to again to spout on about the type of negative tactics that have failed yet again this year, on a night when two traditional advocates who will go toe to toe in an expansive game in three weeks time should have been celebrated. McGrath at one point said that KK had 2 sweepers, which was utter nonsense and he also highlighted how on another occasion KK had 12 men back in their own half as if it was some pre-meditated plan that conformed to how he thinks the game should be played. In reality they were just tracking back the Limerick runners.

Cusack has done this in the past as well, when a couple of years ago he highlighted a game where KK had a lot of men back in defense and at least on that occasion Shefflin had the wherewithall to call him out on it. He had been showing a clip from the final stages of the `07 final when KK were shutting up shop in a game that they had won by going for the jugular in the first quarter against Limerick.

Treble double

Football man here who enjoys hurling but not very knowledgeable on the game especially after watching Sunday game last night, something that bugs me a hurling man told me that the sliothar is lighter now than the nineties and the ridges aren't as big making it easier to hit a long distance with accuracy and that players have a larger bas on their hurls. Is all this true and what are the rules in relation to sliothar weight and design and bas size. I see someone scoring from the middle of the field and don't know if it is an outrageous piece of skill or something that any inter county player should be capable of. Pity the pundits couldn't enlighten us about the requirements of the basic equipment of the game, I'm tired of listening to talk about sweepers and spare hands

Odyssey 2005

threeball wrote: »

After the show McGrath and Cusack donned their smoking jacket, retired to the green room where they enjoyed a glass of Cognac while filling their pipe with some Larsson Hand pressed tobacco and discussed the finer points off hurling whilst using Brendan and Des as footstools.

The fookin egits did that before the show. It's a pity they didn't stay in the green room.
Terrible thing to say that the main talking points on two absolutely cracking games is the two ref's and their inept handling of the games,and Stan and Ollie last night and refed by another egit

tibruit

jr86 wrote: »

The toughest bit to take for Wexford is that a day like yesterday may be a long time coming around again.

I disagree. I think Wexford have the potential to win an All Ireland with their current generation. They have marquee attackers in Chin, O`Connor and MacDonald and a solid central spine at the back. Ye need to jettison Davey before the rot sets in. He fell off a cliff with Clare just as McGrath did with Waterford. It begins when your forwards start to get disillusioned with being double and triple marked every time a ball comes their way.

nw5iytvs0lf1uz

tibruit wrote: »

I disagree. I think Wexford have the potential to win an All Ireland with their current generation. They have marquee attackers in Chin, O`Connor and MacDonald and a solid central spine at the back. Ye need to jettison Davey before the rot sets in. He fell off a cliff with Clare just as McGrath did with Waterford. It begins when your forwards start to get disillusioned with being double and triple marked every time a ball comes their way.

wexford have the age profile and skill to progress further but it will depend on the players.
if davy goes, and he will have to if wexford want to win an all ireland, then the replacement could get the same disgraceful treatment fanning got from waterford squad.

citykat

Treble double wrote: »

Football man here who enjoys hurling but not very knowledgeable on the game especially after watching Sunday game last night, something that bugs me a hurling man told me that the sliothar is lighter now than the nineties and the ridges aren't as big making it easier to hit a long distance with accuracy and that players have a larger bas on their hurls. Is all this true and what are the rules in relation to sliothar weight and design and bas size. I see someone scoring from the middle of the field and don't know if it is an outrageous piece of skill or something that any inter county player should be capable of. Pity the pundits couldn't enlighten us about the requirements of the basic equipment of the game, I'm tired of listening to talk about sweepers and spare hands

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the sliotars, hurls, etc. in use today. On Saturday the Kilkenny Minor (U17) goalkeeper scored a free from well inside his own half. Some people might be horrified at that. I say good on him and others who can do that now. The more scores the better in sport. The easier it is to score, the less likely are teams to play defensively. Look at how defensive formations have ruined football as a spectacle. In case you didn't notice, we have some high profile proponents of defensive systems in hurling. Making it easier for players to score and particularly from distance is one way of disincentivising this defensive minded way of thinking.

TheMilkyPirate

Amina Gifted Sleepyhead wrote: »

wexford have the age profile and skill to progress further but it will depend on the players.
if davy goes, and he will have to if wexford want to win an all ireland, then the replacement could get the same disgraceful treatment fanning got from waterford squad.

The players absolutely love Davy. I'd fear for whoever comes in next it will be hard to get them fired up and to react as well to him as they have done to Davy. We definitely have the players and they are still young.

Tombo2001

Treble double wrote: »

Football man here who enjoys hurling but not very knowledgeable on the game especially after watching Sunday game last night, something that bugs me a hurling man told me that the sliothar is lighter now than the nineties and the ridges aren't as big making it easier to hit a long distance with accuracy and that players have a larger bas on their hurls. Is all this true and what are the rules in relation to sliothar weight and design and bas size. I see someone scoring from the middle of the field and don't know if it is an outrageous piece of skill or something that any inter county player should be capable of. Pity the pundits couldn't enlighten us about the requirements of the basic equipment of the game, I'm tired of listening to talk about sweepers and spare hands

I dont know whether thats true or not.

Certainly the hurl has changed shape, tends to be shorter - but thats cause there is less emphasis on ground hurling; marking is tighter and a short hurl leads to a quicker swing and its harder to hook.

The ball in nearly all sports changes over time - look at soccer as a primary example. Not sure what the big deal is.

Lads spending ten hours a week in the gym has a had a far bigger impact on the game - and much more so in football than hurling.

Tombo2001

Was at the Limerick Kilkenny game as a neutral on Saturday and definitely feel this is one that Limerick left behind.

For a start - no matter what you cut it, they should have had a '65 in the last minute that would probably have equalised it. So I think personally there is an asterisk. I dont know why there isnt a bigger deal made of this. There are so many officials between ref, linesmen, umpires.....

Looking beyond that, you could say the slow start punished them, but the reality is they were close to level by half time.

There were a few crucial moments in the second half - in particular a few sloppy passes, and also a few bad touches where players dropped catches.

Also one which wasnt picked up on was a good ball for Gillane to run onto halfway through the second half, and he was held back by the KK full back. It ended up looking like a bad pass, but Gillane would have reached it and it should have been a free, and probably scored to equalize but instead KK cleared it to go two points up. That was a massive moment in the game for me.

Limericks short passing game when they got it going was amazing to watch.

On the KK side, I though Fennelly had one of the best games I've seen from him, TJ is unreal. Richie Hogan was quiet enough.

Finally - having been to the football in Croke Park for a few weeks in a row - the hurling was so much more exciting to watch.

jr86

tibruit wrote: »

I disagree. I think Wexford have the potential to win an All Ireland with their current generation. They have marquee attackers in Chin, O`Connor and MacDonald and a solid central spine at the back. Ye need to jettison Davey before the rot sets in. He fell off a cliff with Clare just as McGrath did with Waterford. It begins when your forwards start to get disillusioned with being double and triple marked every time a ball comes their way.

Well back to my initial post and you could say since Davy fitz came in that they've played 12 matches against top tier opposition (I'm including Dublin). they've won 3 of them. That's a 25% win rate

They'd need to improve on that quite handsomely to win an All Ireland.

Not too many years come around where you can win a 'soft' All Ireland. It wouldn't have been a soft All Ireland this year but it hasn't been a vintage year either. The best performances have probably come from Limerick, and Tipp early on. Galway, Clare and Cork have considerably declined from last year, while KK are still well in transition and Tipp still have questions marks over them overall.

Clare didn't do a whole pile before or since 13, and I'd worry Wexford could be more likely to go that way than win an All Ireland, given their overall record against the top teams.

the overall point is that there isn't any evidence yet there's an All Ireland in them. But time will tell

_blaaz

Amina Gifted Sleepyhead wrote: »

wexford have the age profile and skill to progress further but it will depend on the players.
if davy goes, and he will have to if wexford want to win an all ireland, then the replacement could get the same disgraceful treatment fanning got from waterford squad.

Even if davy deos go....he'll have a bit more class than to be stirring trouble to undermine next management