Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2019/2020

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

It would be a plastic club but it wouldn’t be that strange an idea in NFL etc where teams move around cities in the form of franchises.

Not a model soccer currently follows but 20-30 years from now I wouldn’t rule it out at all. Business follows the market.

The NFL works because its a well established franchise model and team are in absolutely huge population bases where people will actually go support teams. If you think Sean from Dublin is going to stop "supporting" Liverpool to support a team in the same league that aren't going to do well you're kidding yourself.
Fans of LOI clubs would likely boycott too.

Theres not a hope in hell the team would be competitive and in this country that's all that matters to the "fans" here.

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

The NFL works because its a well established franchise model and team are in absolutely huge population bases where people will actually go support teams. If you think Sean from Dublin is going to stop "supporting" Liverpool to support a team in the same league that aren't going to do well you're kidding yourself.
Fans of LOI clubs would likely boycott too.

Theres not a hope in hell the team would be competitive and in this country that's all that matters to the "fans" here.

Surely those NFL fans have a favorite NFL team like the cowboys, giants or eagles before the Bengals or whoever rock up in their city...and yet it still works out as a success.

Sean from Dublin might not support Dublin city versus Liverpool if he supports Liverpool but that just means he can support them as his second team against every other team and he doesn’t need to cross a sea to see them.

You might think I’m kidding myself. Maybe I am. I think there’s more of a market there than you think.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

Surely those NFL fans have a favorite NFL team like the cowboys, giants or eagles before the Bengals or whoever rock up in their city...and yet it still works out as a success.

Sean from Dublin might not support Dublin city versus Liverpool if he supports Liverpool but that just means he can support them as his second team against every other team and he doesn’t need to cross a sea to see them.

You might think I’m kidding myself. Maybe I am. I think there’s more of a market there than you think.

And we come back to the huge population. LA county has a population of 10 million, so when the Rams moved there its not hard to find 70,000 out of that who will support the Rams. If you assume each team is equally popular you just need less than one third of the population to be interested in the NFL to fill the ground, in America thats not hard, especially not in LA. In the US following the league is also very popular, people if they're in a city with no team might just follow the league so if a team moves there they'll just move onto them. Then you have the people that will change team because the nature of the NFL means that the teams are all so even the glory hunting aspect doesn't come into it as much as in "soccer".

Would you pay 60 euro a week to see your second team? Because thats the minimum tickets to a super league would cost.

There really isn't. We're lazy people. Even look at the GAA, bar the all-Ireland final Dublin don't even get amazing crowds unless they draw a big team, that sums this country up perfectly. Look at Leinster and the range of their crowds, we're event junkies, that's all.

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

And we come back to the huge population. LA county has a population of 10 million, so when the Rams moved there its not hard to find 70,000 out of that who will support the Rams. If you assume each team is equally popular you just need less than one third of the population to be interested in the NFL to fill the ground, in America thats not hard, especially not in LA. In the US following the league is also very popular, people if they're in a city with no team might just follow the league so if a team moves there they'll just move onto them. Then you have the people that will change team because the nature of the NFL means that the teams are all so even the glory hunting aspect doesn't come into it as much as in "soccer".

Would you pay 60 euro a week to see your second team? Because thats the minimum tickets to a super league would cost.

There really isn't. We're lazy people. Even look at the GAA, bar the all-Ireland final Dublin don't even get amazing crowds unless they draw a big team, that sums this country up perfectly. Look at Leinster and the range of their crowds, we're event junkies, that's all.

Dublin could draw 82k for Leinster semis vs Wexford when games were a contest so your argument doesn’t stand up.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

Dublin could draw 82k for Leinster semis vs Wexford when games were a contest so your argument doesn’t stand up.

And there you have it. A newly set up team would be ****e so games wouldn't be a contest so Irish fans wouldn't have an interest.

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

And there you have it. A newly set up team would be ****e so games wouldn't be a contest so Irish fans wouldn't have an interest.

A newly setup team might be ****e for a year, plenty of examples of the Red Bull teams that spring up getting very good very quickly.

Your mind is closed to the idea. I have countered each of your points but then you immediately leap to another point rather than being able to argue and stand by the point you just made. That’s grand but there’s no point for me arguing with someone who just wants to keep their mind closed to the idea that some thing might happen in the future.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

A newly setup team might be ****e for a year, plenty of examples of the Red Bull teams that spring up getting very good very quickly.

Your mind is closed to the idea. I have countered each of your points but then you immediately leap to another point rather than being able to argue and stand by the point you just made. That’s grand but there’s no point for me arguing with someone who just wants to keep their mind closed to the idea that some thing might happen in the future.

The Red Bull teams aren't new teams. and they don't try jump into a European super league. A super league won't tolerate a team being **** even for a season. You have made no points. So far you have the idea that Ireland should have a team in a European super league based on the fact people buy jerseys and watch games on tv. You don't have a ground in mind, you've no idea where money would come from, we haven't even got to what players would want to join, you don't have a fanbase that you can rely on to attend games. Your whole idea is based on people that support clubs because they're successful changing clubs to support a club that isn't and won't be successful, news flash they've had the opportunity to do that since the 80s and haven't.

As for your Dublin getting 82k to semi finals that somehow trumps the fact we're a nation of event junkies, I'd love to see proof of that because highest I'm aware of is 60k for a double header.

~Rebel~

D14Rugby wrote: »

And we come back to the huge population. LA county has a population of 10 million, so when the Rams moved there its not hard to find 70,000 out of that who will support the Rams. If you assume each team is equally popular you just need less than one third of the population to be interested in the NFL to fill the ground, in America thats not hard, especially not in LA. In the US following the league is also very popular, people if they're in a city with no team might just follow the league so if a team moves there they'll just move onto them. Then you have the people that will change team because the nature of the NFL means that the teams are all so even the glory hunting aspect doesn't come into it as much as in "soccer".

Would you pay 60 euro a week to see your second team? Because thats the minimum tickets to a super league would cost.

There really isn't. We're lazy people. Even look at the GAA, bar the all-Ireland final Dublin don't even get amazing crowds unless they draw a big team, that sums this country up perfectly. Look at Leinster and the range of their crowds, we're event junkies, that's all.

And even in LA, the following year the Chargers came in, and found themselves unable to fill a much smaller stadium until it got into the business end of the season. So even with that massive population, there was only really enjoy interest to support one team rabidly, with lukewarm support for the other.

(admittedly the Chargers starting slowly didn't help, nor did their stadium being way out in Carson where Galaxy play)

D14Rugby

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And even in LA, the following year the Chargers came in, and found themselves unable to fill a much smaller stadium until it got into the business end of the season. So even with that massive population, there was only really enjoy interest to support one team rabidly, with lukewarm support for the other.

(admittedly the Chargers starting slowly didn't help, nor did their stadium being way out in Carson where Galaxy play)

Exactly, there is absolutely no basis for a European Super League team in Dublin. Even the early 2000's FAI were against Wimbledon moving here and you'd struggle to find a bigger bunch of Cowboys in the wild west than that lot. We don't have the players, facilities, money, current or potential fanbase, there's absolutely nothing to say we could support a team other than a lot of people manage to pull a team name out of somewhere when you ask who they support

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

The Red Bull teams aren't new teams. and they don't try jump into a European super league. A super league won't tolerate a team being **** even for a season. You have made no points. So far you have the idea that Ireland should have a team in a European super league based on the fact people buy jerseys and watch games on tv. You don't have a ground in mind, you've no idea where money would come from, we haven't even got to what players would want to join, you don't have a fanbase that you can rely on to attend games. Your whole idea is based on people that support clubs because they're successful changing clubs to support a club that isn't and won't be successful, news flash they've had the opportunity to do that since the 80s and haven't.

As for your Dublin getting 82k to semi finals that somehow trumps the fact we're a nation of event junkies, I'd love to see proof of that because highest I'm aware of is 60k for a double header.

Proof in first paragraph -
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2005/0619/193680-dublin/

This event junkie thing is about the only point you make that rings true. Why you see this as an argument against a Dublin based European Super league team being viable is what I don’t understand. This suits the event junkie.

I’m not going to pitch the details for a Dublin super league team in detail because it could be 40 years from now it happens. It could be 10 years. All I’m saying is that it could happen because a market exists for elite football in Ireland and you haven’t stood by the points you make arguing against this.

You make a point countering, then I use evidence and examples from the real world to refute this and then you move on to trying to make a new point.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

Proof in first paragraph -
https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2005/0619/193680-dublin/

This event junkie thing is about the only point you make that rings true. Why you see this as an argument against a Dublin based European Super league team being viable is what I don’t understand. This suits the event junkie.

I’m not going to pitch the details for a Dublin super league team in detail because it could be 40 years from now it happens. It could be 10 years. All I’m saying is that it could happen because a market exists for elite football in Ireland and you haven’t stood by the points you make arguing against this.

You make a point countering, then I use evidence and examples from the real world to refute this and then you move on to trying to make a new point.

That game was a Double header. Yeah it suits, until the novelty wears off. The market doesn't exist, the market for consistently high sporting attendances in Dublin does not and likely never will exist because we're a nation of glory hunting barstoolers.
Yeah you keep telling yourself that.

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

That game was a Double header. Yeah it suits, until the novelty wears off. The market doesn't exist, the market for consistently high sporting attendances in Dublin does not and likely never will exist because we're a nation of glory hunting barstoolers.
Yeah you keep telling yourself that.

Double header? You’re grasping there. 82k at Leinster semi finals. I was in croker that day, it was heaving with Dubs. Event junkies, whatever. You put elite level popular sport in Ireland that’s a contest and you’ll sell out stadiums.

Whether it’ll ever happen I can’t say for sure but there’s a ready market there.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

Double header? You’re grasping there. 82k at Leinster semi finals. I was in croker that day, it was heaving with Dubs. Event junkies, whatever. You put elite level popular sport in Ireland that’s a contest and you’ll sell out stadiums.

Whether it’ll ever happen I can’t say for sure but there’s a ready market there.

Can you actually give any facts to back up that there is a "ready market" here?

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

Can you actually give any facts to back up that there is a "ready market" here?

Is there any point? You have your view and it isn’t going to change.

Your attitude is that Irish people are all barstoolers event junkies that have no interest in football because not enough people want to travel and pay to see Jack Byrne play against Finn Harps or UCD. That’s your opinion. It’s a stupid opinion to me but that’s only my opinion.

Captain Havoc

I think a lot of people say they'll do stuff but then when it comes to handing over money, there's an excuse. If you've paid entry into a soccer match in Ireland (international, LoI or glamour friendly) over the last twelve months, there is a chance you would attend a super league game. If you have not, then you probably won't.

Brock Turnpike

Hate to say it, but going to have to agree with Dots on this.

bohsman

The top European clubs won't be allowing a currently non existing Dublin club into a European league, if they did I'm struggling to see who will support them, unless they were very competitive the majority would continue following their English clubs. A new stadium and training facilities would clearly be needed too, the amount of investment needed to go from scratch to being competitive in a European super league be insane.

johnnyryan89

bohsman wrote: »

The top European clubs won't be allowing a currently non existing Dublin club into a European league, if they did I'm struggling to see who will support them, unless they were very competitive the majority would continue following their English clubs. A new stadium and training facilities would clearly be needed too, the amount of investment needed to go from scratch to being competitive in a European super league be insane.

Money talks and if some Arab or billionaire(s) offered money to the top clubs they'd welcome it with open arms.

Aviva Stadium and there's places like UL or Abbotstown. If a billionaire rocked up tomorrow looking to start up a franchise in Ireland for a European super League all they have to do is rent the Aviva and training facilities. IRFU, government or UL would be more than happy for someone to use their facilities to make extra money. UL would jump at the chance and they'd see as an opportunity to further improve their sports facilities and have another Pro team based at the university.

pgj2015

thread is gone way off topic, is this thread not about the Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News?

D14Rugby

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Money talks and if some Arab or billionaire(s) offered money to the top clubs they'd welcome it with open arms.

Aviva Stadium and there's places like UL or Abbotstown. If a billionaire rocked up tomorrow looking to start up a franchise in Ireland for a European super League all they have to do is rent the Aviva and training facilities. IRFU, government or UL would be more than happy for someone to use their facilities to make extra money. UL would jump at the chance and they'd see as an opportunity to further improve their sports facilities and have another Pro team based at the university.

Money talks but look what happened to Wembley when Tottenham used it for a year, Lansdownes pitch would be in bits, Wembley only had 2 NFL games to deal with, Lansdowne hosts over a dozen rugby games a year. Training in UL would involve a lot of commuting for players.

People are rich but to make a super league quality team from scratch would cost billions in transfer fees alone then wages, rent, travel all that sort of stuff. For someone to gamble that much money on Sean from Dublin stopping supporting Liverpool, they'd need to be going through the worst midlife crisis the world has ever seen. Man City's owners have put 1.3billiom into them over a decade. A team in Dublin would need more than that in a year. Not going to happen.

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I think a lot of people say they'll do stuff but then when it comes to handing over money, there's an excuse. If you've paid entry into a soccer match in Ireland (international, LoI or glamour friendly) over the last twelve months, there is a chance you would attend a super league game. If you have not, then you probably won't.

Can't see LOI fans paying into it since it'd be the final nail in the coffin for the league.

Dots1982

A Dublin team being in the first European super league is almost certainly far fetched. It would be too hard to step up to the level of top European clubs. But over a timespan of up to 40 years there could be more than one superleague. Tiered to include secondary European cities that will be far richer in a few decades like Warsaw and Bucharest.

Ultimately the Irish economy is losing millions to the UK economy by having a poor domestic league.

The Irish consumer of football is losing out by not having a good source of elite football at their doorstep.

Irish football is losing out as big domestic clubs in a country act as good breeding grounds for elite footballers; Ajax is one of numerous examples.

The job of the market is to satisfy demand so I don’t see it as implausible that an Irish entity could be eventually in a European super league.

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

Connor Ronan will probably be Kennys number 10, hes a huge fan of him.

Yeah it certainly helps that Ronan has been Kenny's number 10 so far but think Parrott has been injured every time the 21s have played so far so be interesting to see what his starting XI will be like when everyone's fit.

Plus in terms of the senior team in time to come it's gonna depend on if Ronan is getting game time at club level. If he's not then I don't see him playing. But I think Kenny will be more open to players playing abroad so if he doesn't make it at Wolves then even playing in Slovakia won't see his Ireland chances harmed.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Jonathan Afolabi named in UEFA's U-19 Team of the Tournament:

https://twitter.com/UEFAcom/status/1156251280932823040

Well deserved. Someone sign this lad up already.

The biggest positive of players not being released for the U19s tournament was it gave chances to players like Afolabi, who with everyone fit and available probably wouldn't have went to the tournament but finds himself named in the team of the tournament alongside lads playing at clubs like Barcelona, Madrid and City while he's got no club atm.

Also gave him the chance to impress clubs abroad, and with the likes of Palace, Newcastle, Reading and Birmingham being rumoured to be chasing him then hopefully some clubs abroad were impressed by his performance and offer him a contract.

The Rooster

D14Rugby wrote: »

Money talks but look what happened to
Can't see LOI fans paying into it since it'd be the final nail in the coffin for the league.

This is why it's a pointless conversation.

Wimbledon becoming the Dublin Dons rather than the Milton Keynes Dons was a genuine alternative (with a number of hurdles to overcome). There are many examples of club teams playing in leagues in different countries. The premier league were open (although were a long way from making a decision), but it needed approval from the FAI to get off the ground.

The first hurdle was getting backers. They actually were a good way down the road on this (didn't need billions for a team then!)
Second hurdle was FAI approval. FAI said No. Not a chance. So the plan was dead.

Personally I think a team playing against premier league teams every week would get good support if Aviva was available. Would be less sure if playing mid table teams from other leagues. But any opinion on this is irrelevant as it'll never happen, because FAI would never let it happen.

Dots1982

The Rooster wrote: »

This is why it's a pointless conversation.

Wimbledon becoming the Dublin Dons rather than the Milton Keynes Dons was a genuine alternative (with a number of hurdles to overcome). There are many examples of club teams playing in leagues in different countries. The premier league were open (although were a long way from making a decision), but it needed approval from the FAI to get off the ground.

The first hurdle was getting backers. They actually were a good way down the road on this (didn't need billions for a team then!)
Second hurdle was FAI approval. FAI said No. Not a chance. So the plan was dead.

Personally I think a team playing against premier league teams every week would get good support if Aviva was available. Would be less sure if playing mid table teams from other leagues. But any opinion on this is irrelevant as it'll never happen, because FAI would never let it happen.

To say that it could never happen because the likes of Louis kilcoyne and dunphy couldn’t make it happen 25 years ago is a leap.

It’s easy saying no to those gob****es.

It would get a different consideration of some Arab sheik turns up with the idea. All pie in the sky but I wouldn’t reject it coz of Dublin dons.

D14Rugby

Dots1982 wrote: »

A Dublin team being in the first European super league is almost certainly far fetched. It would be too hard to step up to the level of top European clubs. But over a timespan of up to 40 years there could be more than one superleague. Tiered to include secondary European cities that will be far richer in a few decades like Warsaw and Bucharest.

Ultimately the Irish economy is losing millions to the UK economy by having a poor domestic league.

The Irish consumer of football is losing out by not having a good source of elite football at their doorstep.

Irish football is losing out as big domestic clubs in a country act as good breeding grounds for elite footballers; Ajax is one of numerous examples.

The job of the market is to satisfy demand so I don’t see it as implausible that an Irish entity could be eventually in a European super league.

Ireland doesn't have a source of elite football because the Irish public refuse to support it's domestic league.

Dots1982

D14Rugby wrote: »

Ireland doesn't have a source of elite football because the Irish public refuse to support it's domestic league.

True and because of the huge strength of the GAA and government disinterest in sports infrastructure investment leading to ramshackle stadiums. Plus the FAI don’t value the league.

Captain Havoc

Dots1982 wrote: »

True and because of the huge strength of the GAA and government disinterest in sports infrastructure investment leading to ramshackle stadiums. Plus the FAI don’t value the league.

I've never bought the because of the GAA argument. We're not the only country with alternative sports. A lot of gaa players kick ball also.

Dots1982

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I've never bought the because of the GAA argument. We're not the only country with alternative sports. A lot of gaa players kick ball also.

GAA are in every school and village in the country, especially rurally. That kind of national infrastructure is impossible for any other sport to compete with. They have a virtual monopoly. It’s changing maybe but was definitely the case when I was young.

johnnyryan89

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157179443661692928

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157180840591450117

We also play Sweden in four or five weeks time at U21 level.

dr.kenneth noisewater

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157179443661692928

https://twitter.com/swearimnotpaul/status/1157180840591450117

We also play Sweden in four or five weeks time at U21 level.

Surely this should be easy to clear up? Seems like he's looking for an excuse to play for Sweden

blinding

dr.kenneth noisewater wrote: »

Surely this should be easy to clear up? Seems like he's looking for an excuse to play for Sweden

I am not sure this guy can be relied to " turnup “ for Ireland .

Irishmale0399

FAI press office spreading rumours about the young lad at Bayern Munich......deflect from their own problems and then play the heros when he does play for the Bhoys in Green.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

I am not sure this guy can be relied to " turnup “ for Ireland .

Is that a Swedes 2 Turnips 0 reference? I'm slow on the uptake today...

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

I think a lot of it is taken out of context, from the original article below it makes out he'll be happy to play for Sweden IF he cant play for Ireland.

Yeah he's gotta keep the Swedes happy too and can't turn around to be like yeah I really want to play for Ireland but if I can't I can always just play for Sweden. Would be like the English players actually coming out and saying the only reason I'm actually playing with Ireland is because I'm not good enough for England.

It's a weird situation because I doubt Robinson had a Irish passport when he played with England, same with Bamford and possibly Crowley.

PTH2009

Its gets better and better supporting this nation

Rice and grealish sagas along with farcical past management with stories of verbal abuse allegations. Now this Johannson saga

What next?

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

facial past management...

I still manage my face...though half thinking of getting an agent...

PTH2009

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I still manage my face...though half thinking of getting an agent...

Ha

Anyway if the appeal works than cap Ryan Johansen straight away. Hes in Bayern's first team squad and looks promising

So he can play for Luxembourg, Sweden, Ireland and England (Southgate may be lurking then)

henke

It would be just our luck he is not eligible and turns into a world class player. It is odd though no way lads who played England underage and then switched to us all had Irish passports at the time they played with England.

Mr.Maroon

henke wrote: »

It is odd though no way lads who played England underage and then switched to us all had Irish passports at the time they played with England.

For that reason alone - I think it'll still fall in our favour.
It might take some time to get it resolved though.

henke

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

It's a weird situation because I doubt Robinson had a Irish passport when he played with England, same with Bamford and possibly Crowley.

Hopefully this guy never has an Irish passport .

johnnyryan89

henke wrote: »

It would be just our luck he is not eligible and turns into a world class player. It is odd though no way lads who played England underage and then switched to us all had Irish passports at the time they played with England.

I'd say maybe the rule was always there but nobody complained before because it seems FIFA only got involved after the Luxembourg FA contacted them to bring up the situation, like I doubt England gave a **** that players were declaring for us as they weren't good enough for England. Same with Mario Fernandes who actually played a friendly for Brazil but now plays for Russia and he only became a Russian citizen after he had played for Brazil.

That's why I agree with Mr.Maroon that it will work in our favour but may take a little longer now while this issue gets sorted.

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

Robinson 100% didnt and as far as I know his own mother had to go through a bit of rigmarole of obtaining an Irish passport before he could since his grandmother died when his mother was only a child. Its why it took an age to clear. Think it was early Feb/March of last year Robinson said he was declaring and the paper work was already in the process but he couldnt offically play until September when it went though. (He played v Celtic in an unofficial match that summer).

Id be confident of the Johansson situation eventually being cleared up.

Seems a bit sour grapes from Luxembourg anyway, if he wasnt going to play for us sure he was going to play for Sweden regardless.

Was it Robinson? I remember it was an Irish player but thought it was David McGoldrick, he couldn't prove at first that he qualified for Ireland as he was adopted or something.

Brock Turnpike

Has anyone actually seen Johanssen playing?

Dots1982

Here’s hoping Seani Maguire has an uninterrupted season this year.

johnnyryan89

Dots1982 wrote: »

Here’s hoping Seani Maguire has an uninterrupted season this year.

Preston North End will be hoping the same after selling Robinson. Maguire needs to visit a witch doctor or sell his soul to Satan though given his luck with injuries.

johnnyryan89

https://twitter.com/bazdjcooper/status/1157600174929326080

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

Needs to get out of Burnley if he has any aspiration left. The chap is 29 soon and has played 62 times for Burnley in all comps in 9 years! ..he has a career total of 159 games over an 11 year period for all clubs.

Always seemed to me that Long was possibly just happy picking up a pay cheque. Couple of loan moves but hasn't left again since Burnley got promoted three years ago. I was impressed with him during the 17-18 season when he played a good few games because of injuries, anytime he played he played well but goes back to the bench again last season and signs a new three year deal.

Hopefully he gets a move away and regular game time, handy option to have just in case we ever get hit with injuries or suspensions.

Rhys Essien

Good to see former Cork City players Sean McLoughlin and Daryl Horgan going head to head in Scotland at 3pm.

Hourihane is lining out for Villa against RB Leipzig at 2:30.

Browne and Maguire starting for Preston. Hopefully either or both get on the score sheet.

wadacrack

Might be an idea to start a new thread. Player watch of players in england/other leagues etc. Would be good to keep up to date on players appearances who impressing etc

Dots1982

Gavin Kilkenny scores for Bournemouth. A new name. Had never heard of him up until a week or so ago but will pick up league minutes this season to be sure.