Can the book be beaten....Discussion

realdanbreen

So anyway what about a horse Del, I'm a small bit flush today and fancy a flutter.

del roy

Dan, as you are one of the long time sufferers
Courtesy of Jerry, from one of his sites.

3.40 Hexham : Glinger Flame @ 3/1 BOG

...in a 9-runner, Class 4, Handicap Hurdle for 4yo+ over 2m4f on Soft/Good to Soft ground worth £6758 to the winner...

Why?...

A lightly raced 7 yr gelding making a handicap debut is the one carrying my money today (hope the added weight doesn't stop him!). He's had just four runs to date (2 of which were in bumpers), finishing in the frame (3323) each time and his two efforts over hurdles have seen him only beaten by a neck and then a length, so it wouldn't take much improvement to get him up for a first win.

And with no disrespect intended to Ryan Day, I feel the booking of Brian Hughes in the saddle might just make that little bit of difference needed, especially as he's got an 18.9% strike rate (67 from 355) on this track since 2011, including winning 14 of 64 (21.9% SR) since the start of 2018.

Trainer Nicky Richards trains this horse just 45 miles away from this venue and it's surprising that he's only sent 59 runners here since 2012. What isn't surprising, however, is that he does well with the ones he does send over, a sign of picking and choosing the right races, perhaps?

Of those 59 runners sent on the short hour or so journey, 17 (28.8% SR) have won, generating level stakes profits of 12.93pts at an ROI of 21.9%, so it's not a lack of success keeping him away, surely.

Anyway, it's not for me to guess why he's not a regular here, but I can tell you that of those 59 visitors...

those sent off at 7/1 and shorter are 16/41 (39%) for 21.3pts (+51.9%)
hurdlers are 10/36 (27.8%) for 5.8pts (+16.1%)
handicappers are 9/30 (30%) for 14.5pts (+48.2%)
6-8 yr olds are 13/29 (44.8%) for 28.6pts (+98.5%)
Class 4 runners are 8/29 (27.6%) for 5.3pts (+18.2%)
over trips of 2m4f - 3m : 11/23 (47.8%) for 24.6pts (+107.1%)
those racing on Soft/Good to Soft ground are 8/18 (44.4%) for 12.9pts (+71.4%)
those placed 2nd or 3rd LTO are 8/16 (50%) for 14.1pts (+88%)
and those ridden by Brian Hughes are 3/5 (60%) for 2.86pts (+57.1%)

And with this horse making his handicap bow, it's also worth noting that since 2012, Nicky's handicap debutants are 14/66 (21.2% SR) for 15.7pts (+23.9% ROI), including of note today...

Oct-April = 13/56 (23.2%) for 21.2pts (+37.9%)
hrds = 10/56 (17.9%) for 7.1pts (+12.6%)
males = 14/53 (26.4%) for 28.7pts (+54.2%)
Sub-5/1 = 12/35 (34.3%) for 22.7pts (+65%)
1-6 months off track = 9/35 (25.7%) for 22.1pts (+63%)
Soft/Gd to Soft = 7/29 (24.1%) for 19.1pts (+65.7%)
Class 4 = 9/26 (34.6%) for 23.7pts (+91.2%)
at 2m4f = 5/11 (45.5%) for 24.1pts (+218.9%)
and 7 yr olds = 4/10 (40%) for 17.26pts (+172.6%)

...from which sub-5/1 male hurdlers running in November to April within 4 months of their last outing are 7 from 13 (53.9% SR) for 21.5pts (+165.6% ROI) profit, including...

at Class 4 :5/8 (62.5%) for 16.03pts (+200.4%)
on Soft/Gd to Soft : 4/6 (66.6%) for 13.65pts (+227.4%)
whilst those racing at Class 4 on Soft/Gd to Soft are 2 from 2 (100%) for 7.15pts (+357.5%)

...giving us... a 1pt win bet on Glinger Flame @ 3/1 BOG which was available from at least 8 firms at 5.50pm on Monday,.

del roy

Dan I will bang up what the trainer thinks about it at 11.00 this morning

realdanbreen

del roy wrote: »

Dan I will bang up what the trainer thinks about it at 11.00 this morning

No need Del, I'm on it already. Sun is shining and I have a feeling in my waters so what can go wrong!

Mostly Harmless

del roy wrote: »

I really can't make it any clearer without being rude


So, can the book be beaten?


Now after 35 years watching and punting I would have to say.........NO.

However it is a great hobby but costly.



After 5 years on and off following Jerry I have given my answer because I started this thread.


However again I will have to bring people back to my very first sentence of my very first post on this subject



Here it is



After 30 years watching and punting I would have to say.........NO. The reason for my answer would be the lack of disipline most if not all punters suffer.
I would say punters need a few things that they MUST have on their side to be given even the slightest chance


five years later...Can the book be beaten......NO

I cannot be any clearer.

Can the book be beaten... Definitely yes.



Can Jerry do it (getting 500 on at overnights with an army of accounts, spending many hours on it and getting inside info)... NO.

realdanbreen

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Can the book be beaten... Definitely yes.



Can Jerry do it (getting 500 on at overnights with an army of accounts, spending many hours on it and getting inside info)... NO.

But surely the amount of hours that Jerry spends at it, if he doesn't regard it as a chore, is irrelevant?

PhuckHugh2

realdanbreen wrote: »

But surely the amount of hours that Jerry spends at it, if he doesn't regard it as a chore, is irrelevant?

The amount of time one spends assessing a race should almost certainly be considered as a barometer for success.
Time is not cheap and should not be treated so flippantly in an analysis of success.

del roy

MH

You can PROBABLY beat the book for €3 or max €5 per point,
assuming you want to make 10pts per week, say at €5 per point, that's €50 per week, that's €2,600 per year.

Don't forget that's over 500pts profit per year.

As I said earlier in the thread

if people are punting with the same bookmakers for a year and winning they are in a tiny minority that these bookmakers some how let them bet away but restrict all other punters,

if you are saying you are winning €50 a week on line for the past so many months /years and your bookmaker has not closed you, you are one of the lucky ones however Can the book be beaten was always about winning more than €50 a week.

3DataModem

You know all this already, but just want to clarify a little misinformation in some posts:

The exchanges can be beaten. A certain - small - percentage of Betfair's (and the other two medium-sized exchanges) customers are net winners, long term.

Bookies are harder to beat, as many restrict sharp bettors. This is part of the business, and getting bets on is not going to get easier in Ireland (maybe in the UK if the law changes). However the books all have their long-term winners.

Books don't wait for you to win long term to restrict you, they can detect it quicker and easier than that (as one poster mentions above).

One little carefully placed mis-price will get the would-be sharp bettors flocking, then the bookies can restrict to their hearts content. Beware of well-publicised mis-prices.

del roy

realdanbreen wrote: »

But surely the amount of hours that Jerry spends at it, if he doesn't regard it as a chore, is irrelevant?

Dan


as I said earlier on here, maybe he is doing it that long he does not find it a hassle anymore its just part of him getting on.
20 people plus on the go all the time,


I would want to be making minimum €10k a year to do all that.

del roy

3DataModem wrote: »

You know all this already, but just want to clarify a little misinformation in some posts:

The exchanges can be beaten. A certain - small - percentage of Betfair's (and the other two medium-sized exchanges) customers are net winners, long term.

Bookies are harder to beat, as many restrict sharp bettors. This is part of the business, and getting bets on is not going to get easier in Ireland (maybe in the UK if the law changes). However the books all have their long-term winners.

Books don't wait for you to win long term to restrict you, they can detect it quicker and easier than that (as one poster mentions above).

One little carefully placed mis-price will get the would-be sharp bettors flocking, then the bookies can restrict to their hearts content. Beware of well-publicised mis-prices.

exchanges,
No money the night before, obviously Jerry thinks the only way to maximize his profits is doing his business the night before.

realdanbreen

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

The amount of time one spends assessing a race should almost certainly be considered as a barometer for success.
Time is not cheap and should not be treated so flippantly in an analysis of success.

Are you a barrister or something that you regard your time as so precious?

Mostly Harmless

del roy wrote: »

MH

You can PROBABLY beat the book for €3 or max €5 per point,
assuming you want to make 10pts per week, say at €5 per point, that's €50 per week, that's €2,600 per year.

Don't forget that's over 500pts profit per year.

As I said earlier in the thread

if people are punting with the same bookmakers for a year and winning they are in a tiny minority that these bookmakers some how let them bet away but restrict all other punters,

if you are saying you are winning €50 a week on line for the past so many months /years and your bookmaker has not closed you, you are one of the lucky ones however Can the book be beaten was always about winning more than €50 a week.

If I was in a situation where I was forced into betting less than a score a point I would not bother to be honest. If I was in the priveleged position of being able to get 500 on the night before and I still could not turn a significant profit I also would not bother.

del roy

del roy wrote: »

Dan I will bang up what the trainer thinks about it at 11.00 this morning

15.40 Glinger Flame We're trying the headgear on Glinger Flame. He's been a little bit wayward, looking like he's coming to win and just, I'm not saying he's dishonest, but his concentration hasn't quite been all there. I hate to call a horse dishonest, you know what I mean, and I hope the cheekpieces put his mind on the job. He's looked like taking a hand in the finish of a couple of good Northern novice races but hasn't concentrated on what he's been there for. Hopefully he will do so today.

del roy

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

If I was in a situation where I was forced into betting less than a score a point I would not bother to be honest. If I was in the priveleged position of being able to get 500 on the night before and I still could not turn a significant profit I also would not bother.

Mh
everyone knows how much Jerry punts as a point €100 and no one knows what you punt as a point,
so lets agree to disagree.

Mostly Harmless

del roy wrote: »

Mh
everyone knows how much Jerry punts as a point €100 and no one knows what you punt as a point,
so lets agree to disagree.

You say Jerry punts a 100 a point, fantastic.

The stakes I bet to are not important as far as I can see and I could make anything up and nobody would know any different really. Like I said talking about stakes inevitably results in a massive pi55ing contest, but seen as you seems so interested I'd normally be staking over €50 a point - this figure changes a bit depending on bankroll and how much I can get on at a price.

Hope this helps.

jkbkhhho7t

Is this jerry lad so anti social he can't create an account himself and has to have somebody post and defend him on his behalf, Such a bizzare thread

NaiveMelodies

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Is this jerry lad so anti social he can't create an account himself and has to have somebody post and defend him on his behalf, Such a bizzare thread

My, Myself and Irene springs to mind. It's been an extremely impressive few years of spoof.

del roy

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Is this jerry lad so anti social he can't create an account himself and has to have somebody post and defend him on his behalf, Such a bizzare thread

all his account are closed hence he gets other people to open accounts to put his bets on.

zpehtsfd

jkbkhhho7t wrote: »

Is this jerry lad so anti social he can't create an account himself and has to have somebody post and defend him on his behalf, Such a bizzare thread

Reminds me of the Jerry Seinfield episode where the character "Jimmy" keeps referring to himself in the 3rd person. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=Apa0nG1OfUc

Blud

NaiveMelodies wrote: »

My, Myself and Irene springs to mind. It's been an extremely impressive few years of spoof.

Was going to post something similar.

Jerry with his army of 20 making bets for him so he can get on at 100 a point. Yep, definitely believable.

Does he lead some sort of cult this fella?

PhuckHugh2

realdanbreen wrote: »

Are you a barrister or something that you regard your time as so precious?

If you are trying to convince me through an experiment that it is possible to make money doing something you better believe that time is an important factor.

del roy

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

If you are trying to convince me through an experiment that it is possible to make money doing something you better believe that time is an important factor.

Couldn't agree more Hugh


if you want an extra 50 or 60 you can get a part time job


a true reflection on the situation

after five years Jerry is up approx 150 pts @ €100 per point = €15,000 puting in maybe 20 hours a week.

Minimum wage working 20 hours per week at €10 per hour = €200 per week, €10,000 per year x 5 years = €50,000. before tax, usc, others.

*€10,000 per year less two weeks holiday.

the cold facts of the situation.



As the saying goes

TIME IS MONEY

show me the money.1

del roy wrote: »

Dan, as you are one of the long time sufferers
Courtesy of Jerry, from one of his sites.

3.40 Hexham : Glinger Flame @ 3/1 BOG

...in a 9-runner, Class 4, Handicap Hurdle for 4yo+ over 2m4f on Soft/Good to Soft ground worth £6758 to the winner...

Why?...

A lightly raced 7 yr gelding making a handicap debut is the one carrying my money today (hope the added weight doesn't stop him!). He's had just four runs to date (2 of which were in bumpers), finishing in the frame (3323) each time and his two efforts over hurdles have seen him only beaten by a neck and then a length, so it wouldn't take much improvement to get him up for a first win.

And with no disrespect intended to Ryan Day, I feel the booking of Brian Hughes in the saddle might just make that little bit of difference needed, especially as he's got an 18.9% strike rate (67 from 355) on this track since 2011, including winning 14 of 64 (21.9% SR) since the start of 2018.

Trainer Nicky Richards trains this horse just 45 miles away from this venue and it's surprising that he's only sent 59 runners here since 2012. What isn't surprising, however, is that he does well with the ones he does send over, a sign of picking and choosing the right races, perhaps?

Of those 59 runners sent on the short hour or so journey, 17 (28.8% SR) have won, generating level stakes profits of 12.93pts at an ROI of 21.9%, so it's not a lack of success keeping him away, surely.

Anyway, it's not for me to guess why he's not a regular here, but I can tell you that of those 59 visitors...

those sent off at 7/1 and shorter are 16/41 (39%) for 21.3pts (+51.9%)
hurdlers are 10/36 (27.8%) for 5.8pts (+16.1%)
handicappers are 9/30 (30%) for 14.5pts (+48.2%)
6-8 yr olds are 13/29 (44.8%) for 28.6pts (+98.5%)
Class 4 runners are 8/29 (27.6%) for 5.3pts (+18.2%)
over trips of 2m4f - 3m : 11/23 (47.8%) for 24.6pts (+107.1%)
those racing on Soft/Good to Soft ground are 8/18 (44.4%) for 12.9pts (+71.4%)
those placed 2nd or 3rd LTO are 8/16 (50%) for 14.1pts (+88%)
and those ridden by Brian Hughes are 3/5 (60%) for 2.86pts (+57.1%)

And with this horse making his handicap bow, it's also worth noting that since 2012, Nicky's handicap debutants are 14/66 (21.2% SR) for 15.7pts (+23.9% ROI), including of note today...

Oct-April = 13/56 (23.2%) for 21.2pts (+37.9%)
hrds = 10/56 (17.9%) for 7.1pts (+12.6%)
males = 14/53 (26.4%) for 28.7pts (+54.2%)
Sub-5/1 = 12/35 (34.3%) for 22.7pts (+65%)
1-6 months off track = 9/35 (25.7%) for 22.1pts (+63%)
Soft/Gd to Soft = 7/29 (24.1%) for 19.1pts (+65.7%)
Class 4 = 9/26 (34.6%) for 23.7pts (+91.2%)
at 2m4f = 5/11 (45.5%) for 24.1pts (+218.9%)
and 7 yr olds = 4/10 (40%) for 17.26pts (+172.6%)

...from which sub-5/1 male hurdlers running in November to April within 4 months of their last outing are 7 from 13 (53.9% SR) for 21.5pts (+165.6% ROI) profit, including...

at Class 4 :5/8 (62.5%) for 16.03pts (+200.4%)
on Soft/Gd to Soft : 4/6 (66.6%) for 13.65pts (+227.4%)
whilst those racing at Class 4 on Soft/Gd to Soft are 2 from 2 (100%) for 7.15pts (+357.5%)

...giving us... a 1pt win bet on Glinger Flame @ 3/1 BOG which was available from at least 8 firms at 5.50pm on Monday,.

Won going away fair play

del roy

No problem, showmethemoney

Didn't follow the picks religiously, dipped in and out here and there* and won a few bob along the way.


Thanks to the kid and to you Del for a bit of entertainment over the past couple of years, I thought it was great craic. Delighted to see the big swing back towards profitability towards the end of the latest bad run.




*which goes against everything the thread is designed to do, I suppose

show me the money.1

show me the money.1 wrote: »

Won going away fair play

The kid goes out swinging........Love it!!!

del roy

Yes Shifty it was a bit of craic when the winners were flowing.

realdanbreen

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

If you are trying to convince me through an experiment that it is possible to make money doing something you better believe that time is an important factor.

'if you are trying to convince me..'
Why would I try and convince you of anything. I can't even put into words how little I care about whether you are convinced of anything!

Mostly Harmless

This is such a bizarre thread

del roy

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

You say Jerry punts a 100 a point, fantastic.

The stakes I bet to are not important as far as I can see and I could make anything up and nobody would know any different really. Like I said talking about stakes inevitably results in a massive pi55ing contest, but seen as you seems so interested I'd normally be staking over €50 a point - this figure changes a bit depending on bankroll and how much I can get on at a price.

Hope this helps.

22/ 03/2019





2.40 Lingfield: Beepeeceecee (10/1 365, Hills, Ladbrokes, BV) 3pts EW = €300

7.00 Newcastle: Mudawwan (10/1 Generally) 1pt EW =€100

6.15 Dundalk: Kasbah (9/2 Generally) 1.5pts Win = €75
6.45 Dundalk: Invasion Day (6/1 Coral, BV) 1pt Win = €50
7.15 Dundalk: All The Mollies (10/1 Paddy, Boyles paying 4 places 1/5) 1pt EW = €100
7.45 Dundalk: Itsalonglongroad (10/1 Paddy, Boyles, Hills, BV) 2pts EW = €200
8.45 Dundalk: Miss Louise (9/1 Paddy, Boyles paying 4 places 1/5) 1.5pts EW = €150


€300
€100
€75
€50
€100
€200
€150


€975.00



You go on about Jerry betting too much and getting his account closed, anyone betting this much a day even now and again yet still have no accounts closed even though they are winning.



NOW THAT'S BIZARRE

Mostly Harmless

FFS. Please show me where I say I still have accounts? I do 90% of my betting in shops. I have some accounts available (not in my name) but not a lot. It's easy enough to get those sums on over the counter across a few shops.

I have never ever put up any bets overnight because I never ever bet overnight, anyone who knows anything about betting horses will tell you that overnight prices are a bookies benefit and only proven mugs can get money on overnight - but "Jerry" gets up to 500 each way on within 10 minutes of overnight prices getting put up - it's obviously not true.

I also won't be creating a WhatsApp group to keep selections "private".

You opened this thread to have discussion, then you put up a selection on it (even though you have the other thread for selections and opened this one just for discussion).

We all seem to be in agreement that "Jerry" (and I would not want to lay odds against that Jerry does not exist at this stage) cannot beat the book but you get shirty if anyone points this out to you.

Leave you to keep enjoying those profitable few weeks in 2014, because it seems to be all you have.

Mostly Harmless

And this is why we don't talk about stake sizes...

Kauto

Best thread i've read in a long time. The 'kid' is obviously Del roy, closing his eyes every night over the evening Herald and selecting the horse the pin drop on.

Both patently know little about racing. Its pretty hard not to win betting overnights with the likes of Bet365, Sky Bet etc, its getting access to the accounts that are the problem.

show me the money.1

Give us one for today?

del roy

show me, Jerry's not about at the moment but when I find a mirror I will ask him.

Imhof Tank

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

We all seem to be in agreement that "Jerry" (and I would not want to lay odds against that Jerry does not exist at this stage) cannot beat the book but you get shirty if anyone points this out to you.

.

Yes cant really follow what's going on here.

Del himself is clearly saying he agrees that the book cant be beaten. But doesn't like when others are with him on that

Mostly Harmless

Kauto wrote: »

Best thread i've read in a long time. The 'kid' is obviously Del roy, closing his eyes every night over the evening Herald and selecting the horse the pin drop on.

Both patently know little about racing. Its pretty hard not to win betting overnights with the likes of Bet365, Sky Bet etc, its getting access to the accounts that are the problem.

Agreed, as I said earlier in thread if I could get a monkey on at best price overnight and still could not make a significant profit then I'd give the game up...

del roy

SHOWME

GOT THIS OUT OF THE HERALD LAST NIGHT,

Harry Callahan @ 7/2 BOG

...in a 13-runner, Class 6, A/W Handicap for 4yo+ over 2m on Polytrack worth £3105 to the winner...

Why?...

An in-form 4 yr old gelding (2311 last 4 runs) steps up in trip aiming to complete a hat-trick for trainer Mick Channon.

Stat-wise, I'm going to keep it relatively short, simple and hopefully sweet, based around the fact that...

...since the start of 2011, Mick Channon's horses racing over 1m6f and beyond on the All-Weather are 14 from 68 (20.6% SR) for profits of 28.5pts at an ROI of 41.9% with an A/E of 1.32 and and IV of 1.81 (A/E and IV's north of 1 are good) and this simple approach has been profitable in all bar one year of the quoted timeframe.

As usual, my headline stat will contain various relevant angles at play on the day and from these 68 runners...

those competing for a prize of less than £5,000 are 13/61 (21.3%) for 28.4pts (+46.6%)
3/4 yr olds are 13/50 (26%) for 38.56pts (+77.1%)
on Polytrack : 10/47 (21.3%) for 22.3pts (+47.5%)
at odds of 6/4 to 9/1 : 12/45 (26.7%) for 35.3pts (+78.4%)
males are 11/45 (24.4%) for 30pts (+66.6%)
those last seen 6-20 days earlier are 9/39 (23.1%) for 31.9pts (+81.8%)
4 yr olds are 9/34 (26.5%) for 11.8pts (+34.6%)
from March to May : 9/25 (36%) for 20.8pts (+83.2%)
at Class 6 : 6/23 (26.1%) for 14.1pts (+61.2%)
LTO winners are 4/11 (36.4%) for 19.7pts (+179%)
and in March : 4/10 (40%) for 17.85pts (+178.5%)

...whilst 3/4 yr olds sent off at odds shorter than 8/1 when aiming for a prize of less than £5k on Polytrack are 7 from 13 (53.9% SR) for 26.5pts (+204.1% ROI), an angled that is 3 from 3 (100%) for 8.3pts (+276.8%) over the last two years...

...giving us... a 1pt win bet on Harry Callahan @ 7/2

realdanbreen

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

FFS. Please show me where I say I still have accounts? I do 90% of my betting in shops. I have some accounts available (not in my name) but not a lot. It's easy enough to get those sums on over the counter across a few shops.

I have never ever put up any bets overnight because I never ever bet overnight, anyone who knows anything about betting horses will tell you that overnight prices are a bookies benefit and only proven mugs can get money on overnight - but "Jerry" gets up to 500 each way on within 10 minutes of overnight prices getting put up - it's obviously not true.

I also won't be creating a WhatsApp group to keep selections "private".

You opened this thread to have discussion, then you put up a selection on it (even though you have the other thread for selections and opened this one just for discussion).

We all seem to be in agreement that "Jerry" (and I would not want to lay odds against that Jerry does not exist at this stage) cannot beat the book but you get shirty if anyone points this out to you.

Leave you to keep enjoying those profitable few weeks in 2014, because it seems to be all you have.

why are you getting all worked up? I'm happy, Dell happy, the kids happy, Jerry's happy, why are you getting all worked up?

Mostly Harmless

Not worked up just pointing out the fallacy of what Del/Jerry/The Kid is saying and defending the point where he is questioning my integrity.

Glad you are happy, I am happy too. Carry on.

Imhof Tank

realdanbreen wrote: »

why are you getting all worked up? I'm happy, Dell happy, the kids happy, Jerry's happy, why are you getting all worked up?

Doubt it.

20 hours a week for the past 11 months and 4 grand in the hole for his troubles.

Mostly Harmless

Got a 10 hours old price about Harry Callahan at least

Kauto

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

Got a 10 hours old price about Harry Callahan at least

No shame

del roy

Mh


we will have to agree to differ,

Five years ago I said the book cannot be beaten,

Five years later I again say the book cannot be beaten,

whoever is beating the book, good luck to them and that includes you, Mh.

Mostly Harmless

That's fair enough del.

It's obviously possible to beat the book, otherwise pro punters would not exist and they do exist.

What I don't understand is if you think the book cannot be beat and we now more or less know that "Jerry" cannot do it (even with a lot of things in his favour), why do you continue to ramp it up on here like there is some great level of insight or inside information behind them - not sure why people continue to ask for selections from what is to all intents and purposes a long term break even (at best) punter but that's their business. This (and a few other things) is what I find bizarre, but it's just my observation and not a criticism.

Wishing you/jerry all the best.

del roy

no bother Mh

we are all on here for horse racing and trying to make money,

good luck.

realdanbreen

Mostly Harmless wrote: »

That's fair enough del.

It's obviously possible to beat the book, otherwise pro punters would not exist and they do exist.

What I don't understand is if you think the book cannot be beat and we now more or less know that "Jerry" cannot do it (even with a lot of things in his favour), why do you continue to ramp it up on here like there is some great level of insight or inside information behind them - not sure why people continue to ask for selections from what is to all intents and purposes a long term break even (at best) punter but that's their business. This (and a few other things) is what I find bizarre, but it's just my observation and not a criticism.

Wishing you/jerry all the best.

Night Jim Bob!