Hogging a chargepoint

ImARebel

Mickeroo wrote: »

Does your home house not have a three pin plug you could reach?

Either way, I wouldn't advise buying an EV if you make long journeys with regularity unless you can afford at least a Kona.

it does but I'd have to run a lead out an open window and we live in the middle of nowhere. parents have already been burgled once, I wouldn't even ask them to leave the window open whilst not there or at night while the car charges.

they worry enough about safety as it is - the joys of rural living

it's not that I do the journey that often but having to stop and charge (for me) would be a royal pain in the hole and it's generally in a place serving junk food, so the kids will be bawling looking for it and we spend the hour telling them no to maccy d's or whatever brand they can see...

which definitely has us in the "not talking " bracket by the time we get home

maybe I've pain in the hole kids, but such is life, lol. I gotta do the best I can with my lot

Mickeroo

ImARebel wrote: »

it does but I'd have to run a lead out an open window and we live in the middle of nowhere. parents have already been burgled once, I wouldn't even ask them to leave the window open whilst not there or at night while the car charges.

they worry enough about safety as it is - the joys of rural living

it's not that I do the journey that often but having to stop and charge (for me) would be a royal pain in the hole and it's generally in a place serving junk food, so the kids will be bawling looking for it and we spend the hour telling them no to maccy d's or whatever brand they can see...

which definitely has us in the "not talking " bracket by the time we get home

maybe I've pain in the hole kids, but such is life, lol. I gotta do the best I can with my lot

Hah yeah to be honest, even as someone who is delighted with their EV I wouldn't own it of I had to deal with that either

Calahonda52

ELM327 wrote: »

There is no car that takes 55 minutes on a fast charger to get 100km

what about Leafgate?

miamee

It's understandable that with young kids you don't want to make a long journey even longer. The Applegreens which most of the motorway chargers are in, usually do have a Burger King with BK play area so you'd be in trouble there but some also have Freshii (a bit like Chopped), their own food counter (baked goods, tea, coffee plus their own "hot" food) plus a Costa. Freshii is the only healthy option there really and they don't all have them.

Effects

Ian Weak Sap wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. The noise of your car correlates with your experience? Motorhead at full volume and off you go...

I love the sound of a good engine myself!

ImARebel

miamee wrote: »

It's understandable that with young kids you don't want to make a long journey even longer. The Applegreens which most of the motorway chargers are in, usually do have a Burger King with BK play area so you'd be in trouble there but some also have Freshii (a bit like Chopped), their own food counter (baked goods, tea, coffee plus their own "hot" food) plus a Costa. Freshii is the only healthy option there really and they don't all have them.

At the risk of sounding like a right miser, by the time I'd be finished getting coffees and feeding the rug rats I'd be down the guts of 20eur

I might as well be filling it with 20 eur of diesel or petrol

ImARebel

Mickeroo wrote: »

Hah yeah to be honest, even as someone who is delighted with their EV I wouldn't own it of I had to deal with that either

that said if someone were to gift me a tesla, I'd find someway to make it work, lol

Markcheese

NSAman wrote: »

Went into a garage todaywas at 10% took 3 minutes to top up..was on the road again... the joys of petrol.

Yes, and how thrilled would you be if you went to your local petrol station, got in line at the pumps, and waited for someone who's got their petrol an hour ago to come back from walking the dog, and the other pumps similar...

Del2005

Effects wrote: »

Then it makes sense that you shouldn't leave it taking up a charge space when someone else probably needs it.
I think that's part of the problem. People don't think about how to use the spots properly with consideration of other people.

If the charger is in a shop carpark then you can use it while you are there, they are for customers not people trying to top up electricity. The ones in petrol stations or services are for quick use.

Markcheese

When fast chargers fees come in, should the payments be time based or kW based or a, combination,
If it was incremental something like up to 10mins free, up to 20 mins reasonable, up to 40 mins dear, and anything over that getting extortionate...

ELM327

Calahonda52 wrote: »

what about Leafgate?

Rapidgate?


even with that - which I am told has been removed - i think the car would not take 55 minutes to get 100km

cruizer101

There is a lot of talk on here about charges being the solution but is there any sign of them coming any time soon, or is it still years away?

Effects

Del2005 wrote: »

If the charger is in a shop carpark then you can use it while you are there, they are for customers not people trying to top up electricity. The ones in petrol stations or services are for quick use.

So electric charge points are not for use as electric charge points?

Effects

ELM327 wrote: »

Be careful, a lot of early i3 sold in UK cities did not come with DC fast charging.

I'll check into it further when I see them next month. Thanks for the heads up.
I know they charge it at home mostly anyway.

Effects

ImARebel wrote: »

it does but I'd have to run a lead out an open window and we live in the middle of nowhere.

External socket isn't that difficult to wire.

harr

I know someone who purchased first EV a few months back and he uses a rural train station to get to work and he plugs the car in and leaves it plugged in all day ... I think he is under the impression that’s what the charging station is for.
He doesn’t bother charging at home at all... I may show him this thread :eek:

martingriff

TBi wrote: »

At one fast charger in Cork someone left a kona charging for an hour while they went off to walk their dog. They got very upset with me when i said it was rude.

All i needed was a 10 minute charge to get home...

Maybe she had to charge to full as going on a long trip and decided to walk the dog while it was charging. Is she meant to stay in her car the whole time. Disconnect just because you need it for 20 minutes.

I know people regardless of what type of fuel/electricity like to fill to full each time

creedp

harr wrote: »

I know someone who purchased first EV a few months back and he uses a rural train station to get to work and he plugs the car in and leaves it plugged in all day ... I think he is under the impression that’s what the charging station is for.
He doesn’t bother charging at home at all... I may show him this thread :eek:

At lot of people think that this isn't a bother as these are essentially destination chargers. So OK to unnecessarily hog a destination charger even if some poor lad without home charging can no longer use his EV to allow a lad with home charging to have access to free electricity

ELM327

cruizer101 wrote: »

There is a lot of talk on here about charges being the solution but is there any sign of them coming any time soon, or is it still years away?

Coming in this year

lots of publicity in the papers already from esb

harr wrote: »

I know someone who purchased first EV a few months back and he uses a rural train station to get to work and he plugs the car in and leaves it plugged in all day ... I think he is under the impression that’s what the charging station is for.
He doesn’t bother charging at home at all... I may show him this thread :eek:

24hrs free parking at train stations while charging, it is a destination charger so for me that is using it as intended

ELM327

creedp wrote: »

At lot of people think that this isn't a bother as these are essentially destination chargers. So OK to unnecessarily hog a destination charger even if some poor lad without home charging can no longer use his EV to allow a lad with home charging to have access to free electricity

Either have the same right to use it, in the current free for all or when paid use comes in.


If you don't have home charging then buy it, or move. It is not some sort of extra tiered right of access to public charging.

n97 mini

creedp wrote: »

At lot of people think that this isn't a bother as these are essentially destination chargers. So OK to unnecessarily hog a destination charger even if some poor lad without home charging can no longer use his EV to allow a lad with home charging to have access to free electricity

Train station car parks are different. It's not realistic to expect someone to get the train back just to unplug their. The only real solution is more CPs.

The poor lad without home charging may need to re evaluate his decision to buy an EV. Surviving on public charging alone is not sustainable.

creedp

n97 mini wrote: »

Train station car parks are different. It's not realistic to expect someone to get the train back just to unplug their. The only real solution is more CPs.

The poor lad without home charging may need to re evaluate his decision to buy an EV. Surviving on public charging alone is not sustainable.

Agree its not practicable to return to the train station to unplug your car during the day but this doesn't help to guy who can't charge his car and for whatever reason has no alternative method of charging. Back to the oft stated position that the public charging network is woefully underdeveloped.

Only solution in this case is to get to the charge point first .. cue fender benders in station car parks!! All for one and one for all!!

ELM327

creedp wrote: »

Agree its not practicable to return to the train station to unplug your car during the day but this doesn't help to guy who can't charge his car and for whatever reason has no alternative method of charging. Back to the oft stated position that the public charging network is woefully underdeveloped.

Only solution in this case is to get to the charge point first .. cue fender benders in station car parks!! All for one and one for all!!

No, the solution is more chargers.
No one has a higher right to use a public charger than anyone else. If you want a reserved charger, buy one and install it at home/work

Wtf ?

harr wrote: »

I know someone who purchased first EV a few months back and he uses a rural train station to get to work and he plugs the car in and leaves it plugged in all day ... I think he is under the impression that’s what the charging station is for.
He doesn’t bother charging at home at all... I may show him this thread :eek:

Please do, Are you serious ? There seems to be a lot of ''I'm allright Jack'' out there. Not charging at home because you are mean seems to be rampant. I dont own an EV but I could see myself getting pissed off with what I am hearing here. Please GOD, Dont let WTF ? get an EV. I would lose it (eventually}

Effects

Can you daisy chain chargers? One charger, but 5 outlets or so. When one finishes charging it switches on the next in line.
Sounds simple but there's probably a reason it isn't already in use.

TomasMacR

harr wrote: »

I know someone who purchased first EV a few months back and he uses a rural train station to get to work and he plugs the car in and leaves it plugged in all day ... I think he is under the impression that’s what the charging station is for.
He doesn’t bother charging at home at all... I may show him this thread :eek:

that can't be his rationale, its got to be out of just selfishness and lack of consideration for other users no matter what he says. how is it possible for someone to be this stupid and ignorant unless he honestly believes he is the only electric car user within a very large area.

KCross

creedp wrote: »

Agree its not practicable to return to the train station to unplug your car during the day but this doesn't help to guy who can't charge his car and for whatever reason has no alternative method of charging.

In that case he bought the wrong car. He needs to stick with ICE.

You simply cannot rely on the public network right now. Dont buy an EV if you need to rely on the public network every day... simple.

gizmo555

creedp wrote: »

... the public charging network is woefully underdeveloped.

I was astonished to notice this week that according to the ecars Charge Point Map there is no charging point of any kind at Cork, Shannon, or Knock Airports.

iwillhtfu

Hate to ask a stupid question but I will. Can the cars that have obviously been abandoned at the charging points not be unplugged so you can plug in and charge your own car?

mickdw

unkel wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

What are the general rules re hogging charge points.
I notice there is a single charge point outside the offices of Mayo co council in castlebar. Without fail, every time I pass there is a leaf plugged in. It would appear that this car remains plugged in all day everyday.
Parking is at a premium also at this location and as such, plugging in results in a handy parking spot.

No rules really. First come first served. And all slow chargers like the one you mention are "destination chargers" where you can plug in and leave your car all day or all night. That's fine.

In Dublin you have to pay for your parking the same as any other car. Outside Dublin, in most places parking is free while you are plugged in. The Leaf you mention isn't doing anything wrong.

The problem we are discussing in this thread is the fast chargers though. Still no rules, but the problem is that only one car can charge at a time. If you plug in the new model Leaf (charging from empty to full takes 2.5 hours - probably longer than any other EV). There is nothing anybody can do about it

But it is very frustrating obviously for anyone waiting at a fast charger. Most EVs just need a top up, a charge from 20%-80% takes no more than 20-30 minutes in most EVs. Compare it with this situation at a conventional petrol station. You arrive completely empty and you would not make it to the next petrol station. There is only one pump. And the person filling their car up at the pump, is pumping in a few drops of petrol at a time. And they are completely ignorant and they don't listen to your advice of pressing the holder harder so more petrol flows. And you are waiting hours for them to finally finish.

I can't believe it's considered acceptable to just park up all day everyday and high the only charger in that area. It's an on street charger outside council buildings.
I often considered it would be useful if I purchased a phev as I visit the council office weekly for an hour or 2 but this leaf is just using it as a personal parking space.
I guess now someone is going to come back and say it fine for the leaf to hogg it all day but scandalous to try to plug in a phev just cause it's taking such a small amount of charge.

ELM327

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Hate to ask a stupid question but I will. Can the cars that have obviously been abandoned at the charging points not be unplugged so you can plug in and charge your own car?

If it's chademo, CCS or type1 AC then yes, if it's type2 AC then no

PhuckHugh2

So wait let me get this straight. It takes 2.5 hours to recharge from empty. But yet 55 mins of charging is considered hogging the charge point. Charging your car to 40-50% is hardly unreasonable?
Sorry not aware on the etiquette here.

Soarer

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

So wait let me get this straight. It takes 2.5 hours to recharge from empty. But yet 55 mins of charging is considered hogging the charge point. Charging your car to 40-50% is hardly unreasonable?
Sorry not aware on the etiquette here.

It's hogging the DC (Chademo/CCS) chargers is the problem.
You should be close enough to a minimum 80% @ 55 minutes, at which point the charging rate seriously drops off. So leave someone else on.

I had an issue where a 10 minute top up would've got me home. But someone just got there before me, and proceeded to charge for 45 minutes. Now granted they were there before me, but even though I asked how long they'd be and explained I only need the 10 minutes, they still went ahead and made me wait.

Gumbo

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

So wait let me get this straight. It takes 2.5 hours to recharge from empty. But yet 55 mins of charging is considered hogging the charge point. Charging your car to 40-50% is hardly unreasonable?
Sorry not aware on the etiquette here.

Your getting a bit mixed up.
The fast chargers are designed to get people from A to B.
You stop and charge to whats required and move on and let the next person in.

With the battery tech developments, we have gone from 24kwh batteries to 40 kwh batteries and now 64kwh batteries and that's not counting the 100kwh batteries in some Tesla's.

Fast charging slows down towards the end so its considered good manners to charge to 80% then move on, but some people will sit there and wait 50 mins to get to 80% and then wait another hour to get the last 20%!

Its for this reason I don't use the public network and tell people to buy based on your needs and home or work charging.

Also, we are talking about the fast chargers, the slow chargers are also known as destination chargers and you are entitled to sit there on them for hours on end as they charge at a much slower speed.

PhuckHugh2

kceire wrote: »

Your getting a bit mixed up.
The fast chargers are designed to get people from A to B.
You stop and charge to whats required and move on and let the next person in.

With the battery tech developments, we have gone from 24kwh batteries to 40 kwh batteries and now 64kwh batteries and that's not counting the 100kwh batteries in some Tesla's.

Fast charging slows down towards the end so its considered good manners to charge to 80% then move on, but some people will sit there and wait 50 mins to get to 80% and then wait another hour to get the last 20%!

Its for this reason I don't use the public network and tell people to buy based on your needs and home or work charging.

Also, we are talking about the fast chargers, the slow chargers are also known as destination chargers and you are entitled to sit there on them for hours on end as they charge at a much slower speed.

What if A to B is Cork to Belfast? Hardly unreasonable then?

KCross

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Hate to ask a stupid question but I will. Can the cars that have obviously been abandoned at the charging points not be unplugged so you can plug in and charge your own car?

ELM327 wrote: »

If it's chademo, CCS or type1 AC then yes, if it's type2 AC then no

Just to clarify...

You cant unplug a live DC charge session (Chademo, CCS) without the card that started the session, unless you hit the emergency stop button.

Or the charge session has stopped itself and released the cable.


So, if someone is DC charging and goes off to walk the dog for 2hrs you cant just unplug their car.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

Just to clarify...

You cant unplug a live DC charge session (Chademo, CCS) without the card that started the session, unless you hit the emergency stop button.

Or the charge session has stopped itself and released the cable.


So, if someone is DC charging and goes off to walk the dog for 2hrs you cant just unplug their car.

Yes, what I said above applies only to inactive sessions. Agree.

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

What if A to B is Cork to Belfast? Hardly unreasonable then?

Anything above 30 minutes is considered rude/inconsiderate.
Obviously if no one is waiting then you can sit there for ages but it's rude to make someone wait 1 hour for y ou to get from 85% to 100%

daheff

kceire wrote: »

Fast charging slows down towards the end so its considered good manners to charge to 80% then move on, but some people will sit there and wait 50 mins to get to 80% and then wait another hour to get the last 20%!

Also, we are talking about the fast chargers, the slow chargers are also known as destination chargers and you are entitled to sit there on them for hours on end as they charge at a much slower speed.

I think the problem with this is that these are unwritten rules. Not everybody would be aware of this etiquette. Maybe if stickers were put on charging points it would help awareness.

KCross

It will never work while its an honor system.

The software in the chargers needs to be updated to have a time limit AND a min kW limit so once the car gets, say, below 15kW it auto shuts off and frees it up for the next car queueing.

And charging for charging as well, of course, to stop the free loaders.

Effects

KCross wrote: »

You cant unplug a live DC charge session unless you hit the emergency stop button.

Can I hit the emergency stop, unplug the cable, reset the e stop, and plug mine in to charge?

n97 mini

Effects wrote: »

Can I hit the emergency stop, unplug the cable, reset the e stop, and plug mine in to charge?

You can, but you really really shouldn't.

TBi

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

What if A to B is Cork to Belfast? Hardly unreasonable then?

I don't mind if someone is sitting in their car charging (up to 85%). You can at least talk to them and know how long they'll be and make a plan.

Biggest problem is people leaving a car at a FCP. You have no idea how long before they are back, whether you should look for alternatives.

slave1

kceire wrote: »

... the slow chargers are also known as destination chargers and you are entitled to sit there on them for hours on end as they charge at a much slower speed.

Exactly, with a car charging at a 3.3 rate it is pointless charging up for say, 40mins, it needs to be a substantial number of hours, especially if arriving at a slow/destination/untethered charger with low charge

Markcheese

ELM327 wrote: »

Yes, what I said above applies only to inactive sessions. Agree.

Anything above 30 minutes is considered rude/inconsiderate.
Obviously if no one is waiting then you can sit there for ages but it's rude to make someone wait 1 hour for y ou to get from 85% to 100%

This is why I think there should be some kind of tandem charger, I.e a fast and a slow together,
2 plugs, the first person to the station gets priority, but as their charge slows the other plug can increase... So if someone is determined to get to 100%, the next person in line can also fast charge...

Gumbo

PhuckHugh2 wrote: »

What if A to B is Cork to Belfast? Hardly unreasonable then?

Better to stop at 80%.
In the time it would take to get from 80% to 100% the driver would have been one hour closer to Belfast.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

In that case he bought the wrong car. He needs to stick with ICE.

You simply cannot rely on the public network right now. Dont buy an EV if you need to rely on the public network every day... simple.

Why is it that the guy that can't plug in bought the wrong car while the guy that hogs a charger didn't. If anyone that needs to charge an Ev on a public charger has bought the wrong car then there would be no need for public chargers.

khaldrogo

n97 mini wrote:

Good lad. You're paying for that privilege with between 7x and 10x the fuel costs, higher motor tax, higher servicing costs, and a vastly inferior driving experience. But if it works for you.

I'll tell you what works for us........not being stuck at charge points for multiple hours per week.

upinsmoke

Just reading through this thread and I think people are entitled to charge their electric cars no matter the length. You don't know what mileage they have to do going back home and if it's a public system your entitled to do it.

There is a lack of charging stations obviously so if you bought an electric car that's what you have to deal with.

No point in blaming others, if you don't like it go back diesel or petrol or bring it up with your local TD to get more installed

BENDYBINN

upinsmoke wrote: »

Just reading through this thread and I think people are entitled to charge their electric cars no matter the length. You don't know what mileage they have to do going back home and if it's a public system your entitled to do it.

There is a lack of charging stations obviously so if you bought an electric car that's what you have to deal with.

No point in blaming others, if you don't like it go back diesel or petrol or bring it up with your local TD to get more installed

Agree, like children......he got two sweets mammy and I got none!

n97 mini

creedp wrote: »

Why is it that the guy that can't plug in bought the wrong car while the guy that hogs a charger didn't. If anyone that needs to charge an Ev on a public charger has bought the wrong car then there would be no need for public chargers.

As both myself and KC said, the public infrastructure isn't up to it. Anyone who can't charge at home is looking at a life of torment. It'd be nice if we could all charge on the public network whenever we wanted, but that's simply not possible.