Conor McGregor thread (MMA Talk Only - Read 1st Post Before Posting)

RoryMac

Mellor wrote: »

I understand that’s the point of weight classes.
Somebody above had the ludicrous idea it’s about making a fighter break his bollox.

That's not what I said at all!

I said it was unfair to allow fighters get credit for fighting without a weightcut while others would be expected to.

It's hard to imagine any fighter other than McGregor would get the leeway to do this and still be bumped up the rankings in a weight class they're not fighting in.

Donald Trump

H8GHOTI wrote: »

If everyone cuts weight, how much of an advantage is it? They should just try and do away with it. If McGregor’s actions can help with this, I think it’s a good thing.

What is your natural walking around weight? Let's say it's 70kg but you compete at 64kg after a few weeks focused training and a bit of drying out (I've no idea of MMA weight divisions)

You agree to fight me because I also usually makes 64kg. And you say you won't cut weight so we agree to turn up at the scales weigh in at 70kg.

Maybe that's grand. Or maybe I'll purposely bulk for the fight and dry out a few kg from the day before to make 70kg. So you are now fighting a bulked up version of me.

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

So you agree with me?

And John Kavanagh has said his preference for the next fight is Gaethje at 170lbs. That's what I meant by constantly, fighting a number of times at 170lbs and then expecting a title shot at 155lbs is a bit beyond farce in terms of weight classes.

I said in one of my first posts that it can't happen every fight.
If it were to become the status quo, people would abuse it by "cutting" more and more to get to the agreed no-cut weight. Eventually, they are fighting at a weight where they can't make the divisional weight. That's not what happened here.

I'm saying that intermittently agreeing to do it. Shouldn't affect a fighters standing in their real division. The ranking should be based on ability alone. Whether Conor and Cowboy cut or not, shouldn't factor into where you place them at 155.

I think he's need to fight Gaethje at 155 is the goal in Khabib after that.

To your other point, you could have a gentlemens agreement for a belt. Nothing to stop that. All it takes is someone who doesn't cut weight to win a belt and nobody who fights them to cut weight.

No you can't.
Khabib and Tony can agree to not cut weight and show up at 170. Nothing stops the agreement. But the commisions rules mean that the title is no longer on the line.

RoryMac wrote: »

That's not what I said at all!

I said it was unfair to allow fighters get credit for fighting without a weightcut while others would be expected to.

You said "what would be the point of weight classes". Which ignores the actual point of weight classes.
Neither Conor or Cowboy had to cut. They had equal terms and conditions. That doesn't affect what happens to other fighters in other fights. Nor does it affect their ability at 155 - ie what ranking should be based on.

It makes far more sense to credit that fight to Conor's standing at 155 than his standing 170 imo. I guess that's my point in a nutshell.

It's hard to imagine any fighter other than McGregor would get the leeway to do this and still be bumped up the rankings in a weight class they're not fighting in.

It's happened a few times in the past. Nobody ever had an issue with it that I can remember, in fact the general attitude was "I wish more fighters would do that". Don't recall the fighters not getting credit ever being suggested either. But funnily enough, as soon as Conor does it...

Mellor

eagle eye wrote: »

If you don't cut below 170 for quite a while and then cut for one fight it's very tough but you get there and then on fight night you are in great shape and you'll have put back on a bit and have more power at that weight than you would if you are constantly cutting.

What is that based on?
I can't think of anything hat would make that the case in the two cuts were the same.

Obviously a bigger WW making a massive cut to LW is a different story.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe that's grand. Or maybe I'll purposely bulk for the fight and dry out a few kg from the day before to make 70kg. So you are now fighting a bulked up version of me.

When it has happened in the past, the fighters make that agreement a week or two out. You aren't going to bulk up significantly in that time.
What you describe is the reason people don't usually make these agreements months and months out.

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

I said in one of my first posts that it can't happen every fight.

That's why I said it's a nonsense.

Mellor wrote: »

No you can't.
Khabib and Tony can agree to not cut weight and show up at 170. Nothing stops the agreement. But the commisions rules mean that the title is no longer on the line.

Yes you can, it just involves eliminating weight cutting. Khabib and Tony can show up and fight for the 170 belt without either of them cutting weight, one of them just has to win it first. Reread what I posted.

Donald Trump

Mellor wrote: »

When it has happened in the past, the fighters make that agreement a week or two out. You aren't going to bulk up significantly in that time.
What you describe is the reason people don't usually make these agreements months and months out.

Maybe I know I'm not going to make the weight because I put on a bit too much so I'll chance my arm a week out

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

That's why I said it's a nonsense.

Maybe we're talking about two different things.
My comments are aimed at people saying the fight verses Cowboy should have no implication on their standing in the 155 pecking order.
Before we all knew it was just two LWs at 170.

Yes you can, it just involves eliminating weight cutting. Khabib and Tony can show up and fight for the 170 belt without either of them cutting weight, one of them just has to win it first. Reread what I posted.

We were talking about two fighters not cutting weight and agreeing to fight at the weight above. That can't happen for a championship fight.


What you are describing is different. Could happen, but realistically it won't as neither holds the belt, and to win it, they'd have to bulk up to over 170.

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe I know I'm not going to make the weight because I put on a bit too much so I'll chance my arm a week out

Yes of course.
Generally only happens when there is a level of mutual respect between fighters.
Certainly wouldn't happen when a fighter has a history of missing weight.

creeper1

There are either weight categories or there aren’t which would mean an “open weight “ champion which would be Stipe I believe and a much smaller less interesting company with only one meaningful belt to award their one and only champion.

A way to tackle dangerous weight cutting would be to make fighters weight in the day of competition or randomly weigh in a surprise inspection and tell them they can only cut 10% of that weight

Ush1

Mellor wrote: »

Maybe we're talking about two different things.
My comments are aimed at people saying the fight verses Cowboy should have no implication on their standing in the 155 pecking order.
Before we all knew it was just two LWs at 170.

We were but now that you mention it.
What has more implication in the 155 pecking order, two "lightweights" fighting at lightweight or at 170lbs?

Mellor wrote: »

We were talking about two fighters not cutting weight and agreeing to fight at the weight above. That can't happen for a championship fight.


What you are describing is different. Could happen, but realistically it won't as neither holds the belt, and to win it, they'd have to bulk up to over 170.

I was talking about "gentlemens agreements". They could be done for title fights as much as any other fight, they just won't because of the inherent problem with "gentlements agreements.

Mellor

Ush1 wrote: »

We were but now that you mention it.
What has more implication in the 155 pecking order, two "lightweights" fighting at lightweight or at 170lbs?

More implication?
I'd say 155 is marginally ahead. As it includes all aspects of the 170 fight, whereas the visa versa isn't true.

But I'd put the 170 fight ahead of a fight where somebody badly misses weight. As missing has negative connotations that the 170 fight doesn't have.

I was talking about "gentlemens agreements". They could be done for title fights as much as any other fight, they just won't because of the inherent problem with "gentlements agreements.

The "gentlemens agreements" is two fighters agreeing to fight at the weight above their own in order to avoid cutting.
An incumbent champion can't do that and still have the belt on the line.

Usually fighters agree that at relatively short notice for reasons mentioned above. I'm trying to think of an example.

Tazzimus

Mellor wrote: »

More implication?
I'd say 155 is marginally ahead. As it includes all aspects of the 170 fight, whereas the visa versa isn't true.

But I'd put the 170 fight ahead of a fight where somebody badly misses weight. As missing has negative connotations that the 170 fight doesn't have.


The "gentlemens agreements" is two fighters agreeing to fight at the weight above their own in order to avoid cutting.
An incumbent champion can't do that and still have the belt on the line.

Usually fighters agree that at relatively short notice for reasons mentioned above. I'm trying to think of an example.

McGregor Diaz 1 is probably an example, Diaz didn't have time to cut to 155.

Mellor

Tazzimus wrote: »

McGregor Diaz 1 is probably an example, Diaz didn't have time to cut to 155.

Kinda, but I'm thinking more of a time when two guys were in camp and could have made weight but just said lets not cut. Drawing a blank and googles not helping.

Tazzimus

Mellor wrote: »

Kinda, but I'm thinking more of a time when two guys were in camp and could have made weight but just said lets not cut. Drawing a blank and googles not helping.

Didn't Queally do it in one of his last fights actually? Against Ryan Scope I think it was.

H8GHOTI

Donald Trump wrote: »

What is your natural walking around weight? Let's say it's 70kg but you compete at 64kg after a few weeks focused training and a bit of drying out (I've no idea of MMA weight divisions)

You agree to fight me because I also usually makes 64kg. And you say you won't cut weight so we agree to turn up at the scales weigh in at 70kg.

Maybe that's grand. Or maybe I'll purposely bulk for the fight and dry out a few kg from the day before to make 70kg. So you are now fighting a bulked up version of me.

I understand that. My point was if everyone cuts, where’s the advantage?
If two fighters cut from the same weight and rehydrate back to the same weight, neither have an advantage. Cutting was just a waste of time and effort.

If McGregor fights Gaethje at 155 what weight will they be on fight night? Both around the same?

Donald Trump

H8GHOTI wrote: »

I understand that. My point was if everyone cuts, where’s the advantage?
If two fighters cut from the same weight and rehydrate back to the same weight, neither have an advantage. Cutting was just a waste of time and effort.

If McGregor fights Gaethje at 155 what weight will they be on fight night? Both around the same?

The advantage is that you know that the other fella is at the same weight. (It's a Nash equilibrium if you will) Either he's a bit smaller than you and hasn't killed himself or he's a bit bigger walking around and has put more pressure on himself to make it down. Everyone will try to give themselves an edge. If you move a weigh in to a week out, you will just get even bigger fellas dying themselves out even more because they have more time to recover.

The average person isn't even aware of how their weight fluctuates during the day, or how much difference a kg or two can make in terms of power it adds or effort in taking it off. I doubt most of the posters on here have experience on here as the vast majority seem to have no experience of anything like the practical side of things such as managing weight. (And I'm not talking about failed New Years resolutions to get rid of the Christmas pudding belly.)

Mellor

H8GHOTI wrote: »

I understand that. My point was if everyone cuts, where’s the advantage?

Not all fighters cut the same. Some guys are cutting huge amounts for the advantage.
Others are just cutting normal amounts to minimise opponents advantage.

Donald Trump wrote: »

The average person isn't even aware of how their weight fluctuates during the day, or how much difference a kg or two can make in terms of power it adds or effort in taking it off. I doubt most of the posters on here have experience on here as the vast majority seem to have no experience of anything like the practical side of things such as managing weight.

Some people are relatively new to the sport and or simply aren’t aware. Nothing wrong with that or asking questions?
Didn’t you just post that you didn’t know what the weight classes were?

Donald Trump

Mellor wrote: »

Not all fighters cut the same. Some guys are cutting huge amounts for the advantage.
Others are just cutting normal amounts to minimise opponents advantage.


Some people are relatively new to the sport and or simply aren’t aware. Nothing wrong with that or asking questions?
Didn’t you just post that you didn’t know what the weight classes were?

Yes, I do not know the weight classes for MMA. And I wasn't arsed enough to google for them. It has nothing got to do with the concepts of losing weight or having an optimum weight that you will try to attain.

As for people relatively new to the sport, sure that is 99% of the people. Fair enough, a few might consider themselves seasoned veterans in that they bought all of the last 3 Conor McGregor pay-per-views. I posted a thread about a year ago asking people to post their records/experience and it got zero responses. Zero.
Given that there are not that many new threads on the forum, it slowly drifted off the front page probably over 6 or 8 months.

The hardest weight cut I ever had to make myself was about 5% of body weight less than a week out. It just wasn't coming off quick enough before that. It was grand though. Got it down and got through two weigh-ins on subsequent days bang on. I could feel it though. If you want to swap stories about making weight in the context of people asking about it, sure fire ahead and I'll be interested. It won't matter if you did it for boxing, wrestling or MMA. But I didn't buy any Conor McGregor pay-per-views so maybe it wouldn't count.


Edit:
Here's that "record" thread in case anyone actually does want to post their record. It finally drifted to the top of page 3! https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057968714

Doff

I like California's approach where you weigh in on fight night and cannot be above 15% of the designated weight class. 15% is still quite generous in my opinion. Some of the videos and results of weight cutting are terrifying, for example the Cyborg video, or Darren Till where he can't see clearly. While the choice is on the fighters its crazy to think this is what they feel they need to do in order to be competitive.

cletus

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, I do not know the weight classes for MMA. And I wasn't arsed enough to google for them. It has nothing got to do with the concepts of losing weight or having an optimum weight that you will try to attain.

As for people relatively new to the sport, sure that is 99% of the people. Fair enough, a few might consider themselves seasoned veterans in that they bought all of the last 3 Conor McGregor pay-per-views. I posted a thread about a year ago asking people to post their records/experience and it got zero responses. Zero.
Given that there are not that many new threads on the forum, it slowly drifted off the front page probably over 6 or 8 months.

The hardest weight cut I ever had to make myself was about 5% of body weight less than a week out. It just wasn't coming off quick enough before that. It was grand though. Got it down and got through two weigh-ins on subsequent days bang on. I could feel it though. If you want to swap stories about making weight in the context of people asking about it, sure fire ahead and I'll be interested. It won't matter if you did it for boxing, wrestling or MMA. But I didn't buy any Conor McGregor pay-per-views so maybe it wouldn't count.


Edit:
Here's that "record" thread in case anyone actually does want to post their record. It finally drifted to the top of page 3! https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057968714

Odd post. I wouldn't necessarily conflagrate people's personal experience in the sport with their ability to discuss it. I wouldn't ask somebody what there playing experience was before talking about football, nor would I ask somebody their previous results in local elections before discussing politics

Regarding "seasoned veterans", it's true that a number of the posters here are relatively new, and many of the original posters here that would have had extensive experience in both training and competing no longer post, but there are still a number of posters (myself included) that have been around MMA for much longer than the last three McGregor ppvs.

With regards to weight cutting, my own experience (mostly bjj) has been that the weigh in was either very close to, or directly before my matches, so shedding water weight didn't seem like the best idea. Instead, I made sure the weight class I entered was within a couple of kilos of my current weight, and my 'cut' would really be weight loss due to cleaning my diet, and doing some road work, no water cut

Mellor

Donald Trump wrote: »

Yes, I do not know the weight classes for MMA. And I wasn't arsed enough to google for them. It has nothing got to do with the concepts of losing weight or having an optimum weight that you will try to attain.

Yup, it has nothing to do with losing weight, but you’re missing my point. You’re calling out posters for not knowing details of weight cutting. Yet you aren’t aware of common details yourself, like weight divisions. Surely you see the hypocrisy?

I posted a thread about a year ago asking people to post their records/experience and it got zero responses. Zero.

I remember that post actually. Thought it was trolling based on you other posts at the time. Maybe it was a genuine interest, but it came across a bit backhanded.

The hardest weight cut I ever had to make myself was about 5% of body weight less than a week out. It just wasn't coming off quick enough before that. It was grand though. Got it down and got through two weigh-ins on subsequent days bang on. I could feel it though. If you want to swap stories about making weight in the context of people asking about it, sure fire ahead and I'll be interested. It won't matter if you did it for boxing, wrestling or MMA.

If you're genuine, there's probably better threads than this one to discuss it.
I'm not quite sure of the relevance here.

But I didn't buy any Conor McGregor pay-per-views so maybe it wouldn't count.

I honestly don't get this "McGregor veteran" stuff.

The Nal

Surely UFC 250 has McGregor written all over it?

Mellor

The Nal wrote: »

Surely UFC 250 has McGregor written all over it?

In Brazil? I wouldn't have thought so.

The Nal

Mellor wrote: »

In Brazil? I wouldn't have thought so.

Aha didn't know it was in Brazil! Aldo/Cejudo it is so.

Mellor

The Nal wrote: »

Aha didn't know it was in Brazil! Aldo/Cejudo it is so.

I think Brazil is confirmed. Yeah Aldo/Cejudo seems likely.
248 in March is probably too soon.
Next likely would be 252 during fight week.

H8GHOTI

At 155, what kind of weight would the heaviest guy be on fight night?

Seen Kevin Lee chatting with Joe Rogan. He said he could be 195 if he doesn’t have a fight booked. In camp, about 4 weeks out, he’s 185. If he’s telling the truth, he’d be about 15lbs heavier than McGregor.

Eircom_Sucks

H8GHOTI wrote: »

At 155, what kind of weight would the heaviest guy be on fight night?

Seen Kevin Lee chatting with Joe Rogan. He said he could be 195 if he doesn’t have a fight booked. In camp, about 4 weeks out, he’s 185. If he’s telling the truth, he’d be about 15lbs heavier than McGregor.

how did you manage that ??

mcgregor couldnt even make 170 for Diaz 2 , made it against cowboy

he walks around under 170 id say

so that 25 under keven lee

H8GHOTI

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

how did you manage that ??

mcgregor couldnt even make 170 for Diaz 2 , made it against cowboy

he walks around under 170 id say

so that 25 under keven lee

Seriously? What’s Diaz 2 got to do with anything?

Also, I’m clearly talking about fighters weight in the octagon. So Kevin Lee sitting on the couch watching tv at 195 months out from a fight is not going to be 35 heavier than someone weighing 170 come fight night. Can’t believe I had to explain that.

Axwell

Donald Trump wrote: »

Edit:
Here's that "record" thread in case anyone actually does want to post their record. It finally drifted to the top of page 3! https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057968714

The only record that matters around here is your disciplinary record..and your's ain't great. So cut out the elitist crap about who knows more about what based on how long they have been watching the sport or how many PPV's they have watched.

derfderf

Doff wrote: »

I like California's approach where you weigh in on fight night and cannot be above 15% of the designated weight class. 15% is still quite generous in my opinion. Some of the videos and results of weight cutting are terrifying, for example the Cyborg video, or Darren Till where he can't see clearly. While the choice is on the fighters its crazy to think this is what they feel they need to do in order to be competitive.

One FC's hydration test is a good solution. It would basically mean everyone jumps up one weight class.

AlmightyCushion

derfderf wrote: »

One FC's hydration test is a good solution. It would basically mean everyone jumps up one weight class.

A lot would be jumping up 2 weight classes. The fight night weigh ins for UFC 227 had a lot of fighters being a good bit over the limit for the weight class above them. One guy was at 135.2 for the official weigh ins and was at 158 fight night. Fúcking crazy ****.

https://www.mmafighting.com/2018/8/6/17655020/ufc-227-fight-night-weights-all-but-six-fighters-come-in-over-csac-regulations