Who is/was Ireland's most famous sports star?

salmocab

odyssey06 wrote: »

If it was being played there on a competitive organised basis then I'd think some sort of governing body would be needed. Especially if the organisation governing sport in the country as a whole had publicly expressed concerns about the safety of participants and actively did not recognise it as a sport.

So if hurling was set up in France but their government didn’t recognize it as a sport then hurling is no longer a sport.

xckjoo

Ush1 wrote: »

Exactly, so it backs up the point that people who do pro wrestling are more than capable of competing in other sports.

I'd argue that they are athletes rather than sports stars. To me a sport would need the competitive aspect. The predetermined aspect of Pro wrestling pushes it into the "entertainment" side of things.

xckjoo

Knex. wrote: »

And GAA is not a sport, its an association. But we all know saying that is pedantic nonsense.

You'd get some quare looks if you said you were going playing GAA though

odyssey06 wrote: »

No. Under that definition bare knuckle boxing is a sport.

You disagree with the how the Oxford dictionary defines things? You're not lacking in self belief anyway. I'll give you that much.

LollipopJimmy

odyssey06 wrote: »

Boxing is recognised by sport Ireland and the Olympics because it's competitive but also meets certain standards in terms of the welfare of participants.
My understanding is that MMA at present doesn't meet those standards and so isn't recognised.

What criteria do you use for something to be deemed a sport?

Just on the Sport Ireland thing, SafeMMA needed to have three years worth of financials to get recognition, that three years is almost up since SafeMMA's inception

eagle eye

xckjoo wrote:

I'd argue that they are athletes rather than sports stars. To me a sport would need the competitive aspect. The predetermined aspect of Pro wrestling pushes it into the "entertainment" side of things.

Yes it's just like a circus, you have high flying acrobats and clown acts.

Ush1

xckjoo wrote: »

I'd argue that they are athletes rather than sports stars. To me a sport would need the competitive aspect. The predetermined aspect of Pro wrestling pushes it into the "entertainment" side of things.

Agree, I wouldn't call them sports stars either. Sure look at CM Punk when he tried a real competitive sport!

Naos

odyssey06 wrote: »

No. Under that definition bare knuckle boxing is a sport. Actually so is Irish dancing.

Okay, so for the 4th time - what criteria would you use?

odyssey06

salmocab wrote: »

So if hurling was set up in France but their government didn’t recognize it as a sport then hurling is no longer a sport.

It's certainly open to debate as to whether it's considered a sport if Sport France or whatever look at it and decide we're not recognising it as a sport due to concerns about player welfare - and the sport even after several years cannot address those concerns.

super_furry

If we're talking worldwide internationally famous, it's Conor McGregor. Rory McIlroy is probably second.

odyssey06

Naos wrote: »

Okay, so for the 4th time - what criteria would you use?

I'll go with whatever criteria Sport Ireland are using. Or the Olympics.

partyguinness

Is darts a sport?

odyssey06

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Just on the Sport Ireland thing, SafeMMA needed to have three years worth of financials to get recognition, that three years is almost up since SafeMMA's inception

Thanks - as I have said in the thread, I'm not saying MMA will never be recognised as a sport or criticised any of its fans or participants. In a few years time if you asked me this question again, my answer could be different. I'm just being very specific about its current state of play.

partyguinness

Jaysus.

I have to laugh sometimes (not in a bad way)- a fairly harmless thread about famous Irish sports persons has fallen down due to a disagreement over the definition of 'sport'.

salmocab

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's certainly open to debate as to whether it's considered a sport if Sport France or whatever look at it and decide we're not recognising it as a sport due to concerns about player welfare - and the sport even after several years cannot address those concerns.

No something doesn’t cease to be a sport because the French government say so, it’s a definition not something that has to be recognized by every government on the planet.

RollieFingers

partyguinness wrote: »

Is darts a sport?

I'd say it's a game rather than a sport, which isn't knocking it, love the darts. But wouldn't consider it a sport.

Cienciano

RollieFingers wrote: »

I'd say it's a game rather than a sport, which isn't knocking it, love the darts. But wouldn't consider it a sport.

If you can play it with a pint in your hand while smoking a cigarette, it's not a sport. That's the official sports council of Irelands definition.

xckjoo

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's certainly open to debate as to whether it's considered a sport if Sport France or whatever look at it and decide we're not recognising it as a sport due to concerns about player welfare - and the sport even after several years cannot address those concerns.

I'm starting to think you're not serious when you say things like this. Have you not heard of all the controversy about CTE/head injuries in American Football and even soccer? How does that factor into your personal views on what's classified as a sport? Is it literally just if there's an official body it's a sport?

partyguinness

Cienciano wrote: »

If you can play it with a pint in your hand while smoking a cigarette, it's not a sport. That's the official sports council of Irelands definition.

What about a cigarette in the mouth..a la Alex Higgins circa 1980. Is snooker a sport?

Naos

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'll go with whatever criteria Sport Ireland are using. Or the Olympics.

Fair enough.

From Sport Irelands 'Criteria for Recognition':

The sport meets the criteria for sport as outlined in the Sport Ireland Act 2015, which is adopted from the Council of Europe "Definition of Sport".



PT.1 S.2 [No. 15.] Sport Ireland Act 2015

“Competitive sport” means all forms of physical activity which, through organised participation, aim at—
(a) expressing or improving physical fitness, and
(b) obtaining improved results in competition at all levels

and

Council of Europe (2001). The Europmean sports charter(revised). Brussels: Council of Europe

Sport" means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being, forming social relationships or obtaining results in competition at all levels.

Jerichoholic

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're not serious when you say things like this. Have you not heard of all the controversy about CTE/head injuries in American Football and even soccer? How does that factor into your personal views on what's classified as a sport? Is it literally just if there's an official body it's a sport?

Boxing is infinitely more dangerous.

Cienciano

partyguinness wrote: »

What about a cigarette in the mouth..a la Alex Higgins circa 1980. Is snooker a sport?

While I like snooker and darts, they're as much as a sport as Jenga is.

RollieFingers

Cienciano wrote: »

If you can play it with a pint in your hand while smoking a cigarette, it's not a sport. That's the official sports council of Irelands definition.

Darts is a pub sport

Mrsmum

Would everyone who has heard of Rory McIlroy connect him to Ireland though or would a lot of people from the group that know him consider him British ??

Whereas everyone that knows of Conor McGregor knows he's Irish.

tritriagain

partyguinness wrote: »

Jaysus.

I have to laugh sometimes (not in a bad way)- a fairly harmless thread about famous Irish sports persons has fallen down due to a disagreement over the definition of 'sport'.

Gone to the stage now where boards is becoming a joke. Thread starts. Smart ass first to arrive, then the experts and then the ones who want to keep going around in circles. There was a time when threads were civil and only people genuinely interested would get involved.

flos1964

NOT sure about most famous but certainly the greatest...Arkle ...they had to rewrite the rule book to keep up with him.

partyguinness

I suppose taking all things into consideration such as popularity of the sport (worldwide appeal) and different generations I tend to lean toward Roy Keane.

For example kids in Africa or South America are football mad and following the EPL. I can't say the same for golf or MME.

Marengo

tritriagain wrote: »

Gone to the stage now where boards is becoming a joke. Thread starts. Smart ass first to arrive, then the experts and then the ones who want to keep going around in circles. There was a time when threads were civil and only people genuinely interested would get involved.

Exactly. Threads like this are a complete bore. Those who keep going around in circles amaze me. Surely there's something more productive you can do with your time than spend hours on an argument you can't win with some unknown person as stubborn as you.

Brexit threads etc are really interesting I find.

friendlyfun

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

UFC is popular amongst two main elements - criminals, and relatively young men with anger issues. There’s billions of people on this planet who have never heard of it, never watched one of those boring cage fights, or ever had the displeasure of seeing that gurning moron, McGregor.

What a load of awful bollocks. I did martial arts for years, all of my friends watched UFC not a single one had "anger issues" in fact they were the opposite.

I really hate these broad,inane comments, but then I realise this is boards.ie and most opinions here are bat**** stupid.

evil_seed

The question is too broad to give a valid opinion. You have to account for nationally vs internationally also, not just past vs present.

odyssey06

xckjoo wrote: »

I'm starting to think you're not serious when you say things like this. Have you not heard of all the controversy about CTE/head injuries in American Football and even soccer? How does that factor into your personal views on what's classified as a sport? Is it literally just if there's an official body it's a sport?

There's no official body recognition *because* of the dangers to participants - of an order that is far beyond anything in american football or soccer currently. To meet the criteria of safety any governing body would have to modify it. So currently it is not a sport.
It's more like what American Football went through 100 years ago when the US government intervened in because of the number of injuries and deaths and the game itself seemed incapable of making it safer for participants.

Really, McG probably did damage to the perception of MMA as a sport..A proper sport would have fights based primarily on merit/random selection..Not all that money fight sh1te..

freshpopcorn

Anna Geary, well she thinks she is!

partyguinness

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Anna Geary, well she thinks she is!

Never heard of her. I just had to Google her and I'm from Cork...:o

odyssey06

evil_seed wrote: »

The question is too broad to give a valid opinion. You have to account for nationally vs internationally also, not just past vs present.

That's what makes it a great After Hours debate... you can't settle it with a quick google

The is/was though makes it a bit broad.

That is an interesting question... most famous in Ireland.

xckjoo

Marengo wrote: »

Exactly. Threads like this are a complete bore. Those who keep going around in circles amaze me. Surely there's something more productive you can do with your time than spend hours on an argument you can't win with some unknown person as stubborn as you.

Brexit threads etc are really interesting I find.

I'm doing some awful boring stuff at work at the moment :pac:

xckjoo

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's what makes it a great After Hours debate... you can't settle it with a quick google

The is/was though makes it a bit broad.

That is an interesting question... most famous in Ireland.

A quick google definitively settles the definition of what a sport is, but that still trips up some people.....

Marengo

While I'm here I might aswell add my twopence.

I appreciate there are a lot of skills in MMA. However it just crosses the lines of brutality for me to be a fan.

McGregor is famous due to talent (nothing more outstanding, probably less than most of the other Irish sports stars mentioned here), his self professed noteriety and showmanship, the age of social media, and in American vocabulary, he's a 'badass'.

However talentwise, Katie Taylor, Sean Kelly, Liam Brady, Roy Keane, Mike Gibson, Brian O'Driscoll, John Tracey etc were more outstanding in their fields.

McGregor falls down terribly in terms of class and being a roll model. But modern day fame, yeah, undeniable.

freshpopcorn

partyguinness wrote: »

Never heard of her. I just had to Google her and I'm from Cork...:o

Your lucky.
She's meant to be the biggest nightmare to work with. I think she has a show on RedFM.

Naos

odyssey06 wrote: »

That's what makes it a great After Hours debate... you can't settle it with a quick google

The is/was though makes it a bit broad.

That is an interesting question... most famous in Ireland.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'll go with whatever criteria Sport Ireland are using. Or the Olympics.

Fair enough.

From Sport Irelands 'Criteria for Recognition':

The sport meets the criteria for sport as outlined in the Sport Ireland Act 2015, which is adopted from the Council of Europe "Definition of Sport".



PT.1 S.2 [No. 15.] Sport Ireland Act 2015

“Competitive sport” means all forms of physical activity which, through organised participation, aim at—
(a) expressing or improving physical fitness, and
(b) obtaining improved results in competition at all levels

and

Council of Europe (2001). The Europmean sports charter(revised). Brussels: Council of Europe

Sport" means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being, forming social relationships or obtaining results in competition at all levels.

Anything?

jackwigan

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The only reason MMA and McGregor gets such press coverage here is because he is Irish. He doesn’t get that in other countries including the US.

So very wrong...

eagle eye

Mrsmum wrote:

Would everyone who has heard of Rory McIlroy connect him to Ireland though or would a lot of people from the group that know him consider him British ??
Whereas everyone that knows of Conor McGregor knows he's Irish.

A large majority of people would call him Irish.
And for they were unsure and went checking on him they'd see that he played on Irish teams his whole amateur career.
They'd see that he is a huge supporter of Ulster Rugby which is part of the IRFU too.

meeeeh

I don't know about world but large parts of Europe don't give a damn about rugby. So they are out.

Sonia O'Sullivan, Roy Keane, Eddie Irvine and Stephen Roache would be my guess.

Gwynplaine

partyguinness wrote: »

Never heard of her. I just had to Google her and I'm from Cork...:o

How do you know when someone is from Cork?

odyssey06

Naos wrote: »

From Sport Irelands 'Criteria for Recognition':
...
Anything?

Yes, it's a good set of criteria, including:
The NGB is committed to providing its members with technically and ethically sound and safe sport coaching programmes and content based on the Lifelong Involvement in Sport and Physical Activity (LISPA) framework.

salmocab

Sport Ireland don’t get to decide what a sport is, they only get to recognize sporting organizations in Ireland. A sport just needs to fit the fairly loose definition and it’s a sport. Dangerous or dislike are irrelevant.

Charles Babbage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Mrsmum wrote: »

Would everyone who has heard of Rory McIlroy connect him to Ireland though or would a lot of people from the group that know him consider him British ??

Whereas everyone that knows of Conor McGregor knows he's Irish.

Given McGregor's carry on, the British don't want to claim him.

Naos

odyssey06 wrote: »

Yes, it's a good set of criteria, including:
The NGB is committed to providing its members with technically and ethically sound and safe sport coaching programmes and content based on the Lifelong Involvement in Sport and Physical Activity (LISPA) framework.

That outlines the NGB's commitment, not their definition of a sport.

You asked for the criteria Sport Ireland used to define a sport and I gave it to you.

So based on that, can you accept that MMA is a sport?

harry Bailey esq

Tricky. Paul Mc Grath is, and always be my hero when it comes to the football. In boxing, Steve Collins just shades Barry Mc Guigan as I know him personally. Sonia ó Sullivan would be up on the top tier for sure too.

odyssey06

Naos wrote: »

That outlines the NGB's commitment, not their definition of a sport.
You asked for the criteria Sport Ireland used to define a sport and I gave it to you.
So based on that, can you accept that MMA is a sport?

It's not a sport, because as constituted, it doesn't meet the criteria.
The criteria lists the NGB as a mandatory element. It can't have an NGB unless the NGB puts in place the safety standards for the sport.
Putting in place the safety standards will involve changes to MMA\UFC i.e. it would have to at least meet the same safety medical standards as boxing.
Until it has the safety standards, ergo, it is not a sport.
Talk to me when it does.

Which to come to the thread, is why Conor McGregor isn't Ireland's most famous sports star. Because he isn't a sports star.

Omackeral

odyssey06 wrote: »

...meet the same safety medical standards as boxing.
Until it has the safety standards, ergo, it is not a sport.
Talk to me when it does.

Boxing is far more dangerous than MMA. It involves getting thumped in the head non stop for 12 rounds. There's no real tap out option.