Discovery 2x11 'Perpetual Infinity' [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Stark

Probably having a girly night in with Commander Reno.

GSPfan

What is the story with Spock? Should he not be in uniform and possibly clean shaven? He’s been cleared of any wrong doing and isn’t crazy anymore so walking around in his civilian Vulcan robes seems weird especially as he is actively involved in this mission.

Spear

GSPfan wrote: »

What is the story with Spock? Should he not be in uniform and possibly clean shaven? He’s been cleared of any wrong doing and isn’t crazy anymore so walking around in his civilian Vulcan robes seems weird especially as he is actively involved in this mission.

He did take official leave, so strictly speaking he's on his hols.

AMKC

I enjoyed that episode and have to say the nanobots in Leland definitely point to the Borg. I like the idea that Murrey above said. That control ends up having to go back to the 14th century and so becomes the Borg.

I was not really sure of Pike but have to say after this episode that he is a very good Captain and he was right not to let Micheal go when she wanted to go see her mother.

What bugged me do was near the end when Leland is getting the data uploaded to his Section 31 ship why did Discovery not just destroy it? Instead of what they did do and letting the ship get away with the data and control.

corkie

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Think the time suit will fling LelandDrone into 14th Century Delta Quadrant. Control will realise that it will need to assimilate organic life to succeed in its mission. Maybe it will need to build up the information the sphere, the long way, by assimilation.

The magical super tech time suit!

• It has magically transported a Church and group across a great distance?
• Changed the direction of the sphere?
• What else?

Due to wibbily wobbly timey wimey, we have not seen the last of the Red Angel?

Stark

Magically brought Michael Burnham back from the dead.

Magically saved the Kelpian race.

Amazing what you can find just lying around the house. And to think all the arguments she probably had with Michael's father: "throw that thing out, you're never going to find the right occasion to wear it".

pixelburp

Dunno about the rest of the times she popped up, but I think a passing comment about tachyons implied that she spun Burnham back in time to before she kicked the bucket, thus saving her life

Inviere

I spent most of the episode baffled, and it's my own fault - I'm just having a hard time keeping up with all the various different story arcs when they're spread out over months now. Can't remember what the significance of the seven signals are, have no real memory of the sphere other than it being a ball of knowledge they found, it's all just a mess now in my head. Again, my own fault (if I miss a plot point, it'll more than likely lead to future missed points because I'll tune out and try to figure out what's going on, ultimately missing new plot points).

I badly, badly need to rewatch Season 2. It feels so bloody disjointed

Stark

The signals have yet to be explained I believe. Possibly created by the AI rather than the red angel. Or some timey wimey thing yet to happen.

Spear

Inviere wrote: »

I spent most of the episode baffled, and it's my own fault - I'm just having a hard time keeping up with all the various different story arcs when they're spread out over months now. Can't remember what the significance of the seven signals are, have no real memory of the sphere other than it being a ball of knowledge they found, it's all just a mess now in my head. Again, my own fault (if I miss a plot point, it'll more than likely lead to future missed points because I'll tune out and try to figure out what's going on, ultimately missing new plot points).

I badly, badly need to rewatch Season 2. It feels so bloody disjointed

We don't know what's the story with the signals. They were to lure the Discovery to needed places, and were assumed to be done by the Red Angel, but she claims otherwise, so they're still a mystery.

corkie

Inviere wrote: »

I badly, badly need to rewatch Season 2. It feels so bloody disjointed

Currently re-watching earlier episode to try a tie up the threads? Plenty of side plot crap to fill out the episodes.

Stark wrote: »

The signals have yet to be explained I believe. Possibly created by the AI rather than the red angel. Or some timey wimey thing yet to happen.

They haven't been explained properly yet, some theories is that Micheal herself gets control of the suit and does them. "Calypso" has not been tided back in to the main show yet, possibly could be the AI from the future sending the signals back in time (personal theory).

pixelburp

The 7 signals remain a mystery, and when questioned about them Burnham's mum didn't know what her daughter was talking about. So I'm guessing someone or something else is causing them.

Stark

corkie wrote: »

"Calypso" has not been tided back in to the main show yet.

I think the coolest thing that could happen at season end is for Discovery to drop Pike and Spock off then be flung 1000 years into the future. Would solve a few issues: would allow the writers to do what they like with modern technology/aesthetics without worrying too much about canon and not fitting in with TOS-era aesthetics. Would explain why the spore drive never features in post-Discovery era and why Michael never pops up despite being Spock's sister. Could end up being a better version of Voyager.

Gbear

The drama was well made enough but they just breezed past without anyone mentioning that the data is a physical thing and implying that a software problem is somehow insurmountable.

It kinda reduced what follows to the nonsensical gibbering of particularly stupid monkeys, because even monkeys can figure out how to break things with a hammer.

Liamalone

pixelburp wrote: »

The 7 signals remain a mystery, and when questioned about them Burnham's mum didn't know what her daughter was talking about. So I'm guessing someone or something else is causing them.

And it was made extremely 'clear' that she didn't know anything about them. It's coming.

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

The drama was well made enough but they just breezed past without anyone mentioning that the data is a physical thing and implying that a software problem is somehow insurmountable.

It kinda reduced what follows to the nonsensical gibbering of particularly stupid monkeys, because even monkeys can figure out how to break things with a hammer.

Depends. The sphere data shows ability to adapt and protect, could spread itself out into the core systems programs. Would need a full computer wipe, they're not going to do that.

Did anyone else think that the Klingon BoP looked f*cking amazing?

GSPfan

Spear wrote: »

He did take official leave, so strictly speaking he's on his hols.

Well he shouldn’t be allowed work while he is on holidays. If he hurted himself while on official annual leave while carrying out work for his employer then who is liable?

It’s not only shoddy story telling, it’s a HR nightmare.

Spear

GSPfan wrote: »

Well he shouldn’t be allowed work while he is on holidays. If he hurted himself while on official annual leave while carrying out work for his employer then who is liable?

It’s not only shoddy story telling, it’s a HR nightmare.

He's, uh, visiting family?

It's more plausible than the dead Dr Culber, who's clearly taking advantage of it by wandering about in his civvies.

Or then there's Chief Reno still pottering about the ship. She's at least on active duty, but not assigned there, so I guess that's kidnapping potentially.

fritzelly

Culber is on active duty now

GSPfan

Spear wrote: »

He's, uh, visiting family?

It's more plausible than the dead Dr Culber, who's clearly taking advantage of it by wandering about in his civvies.

Or then there's Chief Reno still pottering about the ship. She's at least on active duty, but not assigned there, so I guess that's kidnapping potentially.

You reckon Culbers family are having awkward letters from his life insurance company asking for their pay out to be returned?

fritzelly

GSPfan wrote: »

You reckon Culbers family are having awkward letters from his life insurance company asking for their pay out to be returned?

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity"

GSPfan

fritzelly wrote: »

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity"

Is that you Jean Luc?

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends. The sphere data shows ability to adapt and protect, could spread itself out into the core systems programs. Would need a full computer wipe, they're not going to do that.

Found it strange that the sphere data allowed itself to be transferred to the suit but not deleted...and the whole point of that was to safeguard the data so they must have done a move rather than a copy...which is tantamount to doing a delete...makes no sense.

Liamalone wrote: »

And it was made extremely 'clear' that she didn't know anything about them. It's coming.

Which must be nonsense since she knows about absolutely everything else that happened in the universe it seems.

Sparko

GreeBo wrote: »

Found it strange that the sphere data allowed itself to be transferred to the suit but not deleted...and the whole point of that was to safeguard the data so they must have done a move rather than a copy...which is tantamount to doing a delete...makes no sense.

I was thinking this, and by the same logic why couldn't they just transfer it to the 23rd century equivalent of a USB key and then smash it, vaporise it, transport it into the sun etc.

GreeBo

Sparko wrote: »

I was thinking this, and by the same logic why couldn't they just transfer it to the 23rd century equivalent of a USB key and then smash it, vaporise it, transport it into the sun etc.

Just copy it using a windows machine, will be corrupted before the episode is over :P

GreeBo

GreeBo wrote: »

Found it strange that the sphere data allowed itself to be transferred to the suit but not deleted...and the whole point of that was to safeguard the data so they must have done a move rather than a copy...which is tantamount to doing a delete...makes no sense.



Which must be nonsense since she knows about absolutely everything else that happened in the universe it seems.

Only her past, she loses the ability to gain more knowledge now

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Only her past, she loses the ability to gain more knowledge now

So how did she know all the things about Burnams life?

Gbear

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends. The sphere data shows ability to adapt and protect, could spread itself out into the core systems programs. Would need a full computer wipe, they're not going to do that.

You could've worked something out that made sense if they hadn't also established that it takes ages to transfer it anywhere.

If you just unplugged whatever storage section it's in, then that's that.

Even leaving that aside, if you're talking about a full computer wipe (ie, a mild inconvenience), in return for saving all sapient life in the galaxy, it's not a terribly difficult decision.

Maybe they could've fixed it. They could've tried to unplug it, but then it spreads to key systems and starts disabling life-support, and then they try to destroy the ship, and then it countermands the order. Then you're actually creating credible stakes where, even if there's no debate about what the moral decision is (the crew vs the whole galaxy), at least it's understandable. But they didn't do anything. They just ignored it.

I don't mind the odd contrivance, but really, if you could solve the entire plotline in 5 minutes then it renders the whole thing daft.

Gbear

Gbear wrote: »

You could've worked something out that made sense if they hadn't also established that it takes ages to transfer it anywhere.

If you just unplugged whatever storage section it's in, then that's that.

Even leaving that aside, if you're talking about a full computer wipe (ie, a mild inconvenience), in return for saving all sapient life in the galaxy, it's not a terribly difficult decision.

Maybe they could've fixed it. They could've tried to unplug it, but then it spreads to key systems and starts disabling life-support, and then they try to destroy the ship, and then it countermands the order. Then you're actually creating credible stakes where, even if there's no debate about what the moral decision is (the crew vs the whole galaxy), at least it's understandable. But they didn't do anything. They just ignored it.

I don't mind the odd contrivance, but really, if you could solve the entire plotline in 5 minutes then it renders the whole thing daft.

Yeah true. Not something that's going to be bothering me, to be honest. I'll have plenty of small annoyances of my own without taking up more

CramCycle

Scuttle the discovery? Job done once it would not be deleted. I presume the Sphere data is the future AI on board that is friendly.

pixelburp

Re. the data core, I didn't get the impression the crew even knew it had sentient or sapient potential until they tried to delete it. Before then, a simple right click & delete was the natural path.

And after that point, Saru couldn't be sure if even purging the ships computers would even work, in which case you'd be left with a crippled ship and (probably) the sphere data suddenly hostile, or in the wind. If the data was smart enough to know it was being deleted, it'd likely spot any attempts to move or tamper with its location. Leaving it well alone was their only realistic option. A scuttled Discovery was useless while Control remained a threat.

AMKC

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone else think that the Klingon BoP looked f*cking amazing?

What Klingon BoP? There was none.

fritzelly wrote: »

"The economics of the future is somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century... The acquisition of wealth is no longer the driving force in our lives. We work to better ourselves and the rest of Humanity"

GSPfan wrote: »

Is that you Jean Luc?

It sure is from ''First Contact''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=449Y4ug9jWU

corkie

Deleted User wrote: »

Did anyone else think that the Klingon BoP looked f*cking amazing?

AMKC wrote: »

What Klingon BoP? There was none.

Think he was referring to the trailer for Episode 12!

There is a short showing of it in a clip!

OldMrBrennan83

There was a Klingon ship in the flashback piece.

CramCycle

corkie wrote: »

Think he was referring to the trailer for Episode 12!

There is a short showing of it in a clip!

Haven't seen it so hope, and please don't say, you just mixed it up with the flashback

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

There was a Klingon ship in the flashback piece.

I hope thats' the reference rather than a spoiler.

Spear

CramCycle wrote: »

I hope thats' the reference rather than a spoiler.

It was in this episode, so not a spoiler for something upcoming.

GreeBo

pixelburp wrote: »

Re. the data core, I didn't get the impression the crew even knew it had sentient or sapient potential until they tried to delete it. Before then, a simple right click & delete was the natural path.

And after that point, Saru couldn't be sure if even purging the ships computers would even work, in which case you'd be left with a crippled ship and (probably) the sphere data suddenly hostile, or in the wind. If the data was smart enough to know it was being deleted, it'd likely spot any attempts to move or tamper with its location. Leaving it well alone was their only realistic option. A scuttled Discovery was useless while Control remained a threat.

Yet the sphere was cool and the gang being *moved* (not copied) to the suit?

My issue with the data move was not avoiding wasting of 5 minutes explaining all the other options, rather: How the hell could a contemporary suit computer storage device hold THAT much data, when it overwhelmed Discovery at first??

Told you I would find my own mini annoyance...

CramCycle

Deleted User wrote: »

My issue with the data move was not avoiding wasting of 5 minutes explaining all the other options, rather: How the hell could a contemporary suit computer storage device hold THAT much data, when it overwhelmed Discovery at first??

Told you I would find my own mini annoyance...

They explained it that the suit had huge capacity, far more than they had expected, but you are right, Discovery was a few years after the suit but maybe the overwhelming was speed of delivery etc. More likely just drama for the sake of it during the episode. It would not have had the same effect if they just went and made a coffee while the download bar on the viewscreen slowly crept up.

AlmightyCushion

Deleted User wrote: »

My issue with the data move was not avoiding wasting of 5 minutes explaining all the other options, rather: How the hell could a contemporary suit computer storage device hold THAT much data, when it overwhelmed Discovery at first??

Told you I would find my own mini annoyance...

They said it had a quantum storage device on it so it had near limitless storage capacity. Why they don't make those standard on every ship in the fleet is another question.

seamus

Dr. Burnham had been jumping for years. It's not unreasonable to expect that she would have taken many opportunities to upgrade the suit in that time. Remember when she saved all the Kelpians because Discovery couldn't?

I think it's also not unreasonable to expect that she would have collected a couple of spare parts; including a time crystal or two; to keep at home base in case the suit was badly damaged, so she wouldn't be stranded in the future. This isn't the last we've seen of the red angel.

Just like transporters the notion of moving the data around can be hand-waved away really. You're talking about a scenario set 250 years in the future. 250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

GSPfan

seamus wrote: »

You're talking about a scenario set 250 years in the future. 250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

I like this. Imagine that conversation with the person from 1769, you’d run out of ways to try explain it and finally resort to just saying “Magic, that’s how it’s done. Magic.”

which is why I said contemporary.

Better answer is that she upgraded the suit.

pixelburp

My presumption is simply that the suits onboard computer, something that needs to be capable of dealing with time-travel calculations and so on, would likely be more complex and advanced than a standard Starfleet computer.

GSPfan

Having a magic time traveling suit is this seasons spore drive. It’s a very problematic plot device that will need to be neutered somehow.

CramCycle

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

They explained it but it wasn't in anyway in depth, basically she is tethered to that time now. It was far more wishy washy than some Dr. Who explanations. I think they wanted to present the idea that going forward is easy enough to do, no consequences, but going backwards is not, whatever way it works you are tethered to the furthest part forward in time that you go to.

GSPfan

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

I’d like to know too as I glazed over the detail a bit but I wonder is it because the original jump was forward in time so in theory that wouldn’t disrupt the timelines but jumping back in time from 950 years in the future has repercussions for the future you just came from therefore the rules apply.

I’m totally guessing before someone confirms the real answer given.

GreeBo

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

GreeBo

seamus wrote: »

250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

Thats an issue with the "how", but the logic around "why" is where the gap was.
If I said to someone from 250 years ago that the paper wont let me set fire to it, but it will let me move it into the fireplace they'd probably raise an eyebrow