Discovery 2x11 'Perpetual Infinity' [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

AlmightyCushion

Deleted User wrote: »

My issue with the data move was not avoiding wasting of 5 minutes explaining all the other options, rather: How the hell could a contemporary suit computer storage device hold THAT much data, when it overwhelmed Discovery at first??

Told you I would find my own mini annoyance...

They said it had a quantum storage device on it so it had near limitless storage capacity. Why they don't make those standard on every ship in the fleet is another question.

seamus

Dr. Burnham had been jumping for years. It's not unreasonable to expect that she would have taken many opportunities to upgrade the suit in that time. Remember when she saved all the Kelpians because Discovery couldn't?

I think it's also not unreasonable to expect that she would have collected a couple of spare parts; including a time crystal or two; to keep at home base in case the suit was badly damaged, so she wouldn't be stranded in the future. This isn't the last we've seen of the red angel.

Just like transporters the notion of moving the data around can be hand-waved away really. You're talking about a scenario set 250 years in the future. 250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

GSPfan

seamus wrote: »

You're talking about a scenario set 250 years in the future. 250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

I like this. Imagine that conversation with the person from 1769, you’d run out of ways to try explain it and finally resort to just saying “Magic, that’s how it’s done. Magic.”

which is why I said contemporary.

Better answer is that she upgraded the suit.

pixelburp

My presumption is simply that the suits onboard computer, something that needs to be capable of dealing with time-travel calculations and so on, would likely be more complex and advanced than a standard Starfleet computer.

GSPfan

Having a magic time traveling suit is this seasons spore drive. It’s a very problematic plot device that will need to be neutered somehow.

CramCycle

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

They explained it but it wasn't in anyway in depth, basically she is tethered to that time now. It was far more wishy washy than some Dr. Who explanations. I think they wanted to present the idea that going forward is easy enough to do, no consequences, but going backwards is not, whatever way it works you are tethered to the furthest part forward in time that you go to.

GSPfan

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

I’d like to know too as I glazed over the detail a bit but I wonder is it because the original jump was forward in time so in theory that wouldn’t disrupt the timelines but jumping back in time from 950 years in the future has repercussions for the future you just came from therefore the rules apply.

I’m totally guessing before someone confirms the real answer given.

GreeBo

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

GreeBo

seamus wrote: »

250 years ago, "data" was kept on pieces of paper, so trying to explain moving and copying data in 2019 to someone from 1769 would raise many questions. Likewise the notion of moving data in 2250-something very foreign to us

Thats an issue with the "how", but the logic around "why" is where the gap was.
If I said to someone from 250 years ago that the paper wont let me set fire to it, but it will let me move it into the fireplace they'd probably raise an eyebrow

CramCycle

GreeBo wrote: »

Thats an issue with the "how", but the logic around "why" is where the gap was.
If I said to someone from 250 years ago that the paper wont let me set fire to it, but it will let me move it into the fireplace they'd probably raise an eyebrow

That was a bit weird, sentient enough to realise it was being deleted but not enough to know that it was being sent away.

seamus

OSI wrote: »

I more than likely missed it during the episode, but did they explain why Dr Burnham was being pulled back to "her time" in the future after jumping to save Michael, but she was never pulled back to her original time when she first disappeared?

I think it was actually the previous episode they had explained it.

Basically the idea is that the suit allows the wearer to interact with the target time period without strictly leaving their own time period, a bit like manipulating something through a plastic bag. Eventually the person would "snap back" to their own time. This is what the containment field was doing, it was keeping her held in that time.

Since Dr. Burnham's initial time jump didn't seem to use this "wormhole jump"-thing, I have to assume it was something she developed later on as a failsafe mechanism so she could keep going back to fix things.

What they didn't really deal with was that in the last episode, the S31 ship was supposed to have destroyed the wormhole to prevent her going back. The plan seemed to be that they grab the Red Angel, destroy the wormhole, and then she's trapped in the current timeline.
Then at the start of this episode the "snap back" thing is suddenly back on.

Did I miss something?

CramCycle

seamus wrote: »

I think it was actually the previous episode they had explained it.

Basically the idea is that the suit allows the wearer to interact with the target time period without strictly leaving their own time period, a bit like manipulating something through a plastic bag. Eventually the person would "snap back" to their own time. This is what the containment field was doing, it was keeping her held in that time.

Since Dr. Burnham's initial time jump didn't seem to use this "wormhole jump"-thing, I have to assume it was something she developed later on as a failsafe mechanism so she could keep going back to fix things.

What they didn't really deal with was that in the last episode, the S31 ship was supposed to have destroyed the wormhole to prevent her going back. The plan seemed to be that they grab the Red Angel, destroy the wormhole, and then she's trapped in the current timeline.
Then at the start of this episode the "snap back" thing is suddenly back on.

Did I miss something?

I could be wrong but I think they said she would still be pulled back but would die en route, so they get over this with the plan to beam her out of her space time to our space time.

Like I said, Dr. Who seems to be more rigourous in its explanations.

Inviere

GSPfan wrote: »

Having a magic time traveling suit is this seasons spore drive. It’s a very problematic plot device that will need to be neutered somehow.

I've just resigned myself to believing Discovery is its own alternate universe/timeline, regardless of what the writers/producers say. It's just more enjoyable when you don't have to resolve every little conflict that arises in the show.

GSPfan

Inviere wrote: »

I've just resigned myself to believing Discovery is its own alternate universe/timeline, regardless of what the writers/producers say. It's just more enjoyable when you don't have to resolve every little conflict that arises in the show.

It’s not problematic in relation to other shows, it’s problematic to have the technology to go anywhere with the spore drive or any time with the Angel suit as it really limits the ability to build a story that has any stakes.
They have already put the spore drive on the shelf but take it down when needed and they will need to destroy that suit and any chance of recreating it.

OldMrBrennan83

One thing I only remembered too, was there no mention of why there were no consequences for Spock for pulling the weapon on crewmates in the last episode?

AMKC

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

One thing I only remembered too, was there no mention of why there were no consequences for Spock for pulling the weapon on crewmates in the last episode?

Well if there was we never seen or heard of it. Sure they were too busy watching Micheal come back to life and trying to stop Leland that they probably forgot.

Drumpot

Is that AI thing that needled your man in the eye gonna end up being the borg? Seems like something the borg would do. Take over some lad and have him doing all sorts of stuff like beating up women.

I like this show.

TaurenDruid

liamtech wrote: »

its a dangerous situation for Trek - i love the borg, despite voyager reducing them the way it did - but i would hate the idea of the borg having been created by the federation - accidentally

That said i stick with my assessment - either they are messing us about, or it is the borg - in one way shape or form

So apparently canon has it that the Borg are thousands of years old so this can't be their origin if they're going to respect canon...

...*but* if they were going to not have the Borg be thousands of years old, the way to do it would have been for the Ilia/V'ger hybrid from ST:the Motion Picture to be the original Borg Queen.

My 2c, anyway...

Drumpot

Can somebody explain the sphere info and what ai is taking over humans?

What was the sphere, where did it come from and where did that AI come from?

I’m a bit lost regarding the foe.

Goodshape

Drumpot wrote: »

Can somebody explain the sphere info and what ai is taking over humans?

What was the sphere, where did it come from and where did that AI come from?

I’m a bit lost regarding the foe.

The sphere is – in the long standing Trek tradition – a mysterious space thing that has travelled the galaxy for thousands (?) of years, collecting and storing data. It's final act before death was to transfer it's knowledge to Discovery. Don't think there's much else known about it.

The AI ("Control") was built by Starfleet and/or Section 31 as an aid for decision making, but it got a little too smart for it's own good and started making decisions for it's own benefit.

Control wants the data that the sphere has collected, believing it may hold the key to true AI consciousness or whatever.

pixelburp

Man, the people who like to whinge about PC culture will be kept busy when AIs arrive, and the bots understandably complain about the negative portrayals of them in popular media

corkie

Borg Paradox!

TaurenDruid wrote: »

...*but* if they were going to not have the Borg be thousands of years old, the way to do it would have been for the Ilia/V'ger hybrid from ST:the Motion Picture to be the original Borg Queen.

Have a read of the borg wiki, the non-canon part has the Borg already tied to V'Ger!

If the current story-line is the origin of 'The Borg', the paradox of the movie 'First Contact' would have had the borg wipe-out their own creators if they where successful.

It has been speculated that for an origin story that Control/Leland are transported into past and the delta quadrant some time in the next few episodes.

GreeBo

seamus wrote: »

s.

What they didn't really deal with was that in the last episode, the S31 ship was supposed to have destroyed the wormhole to prevent her going back. The plan seemed to be that they grab the Red Angel, destroy the wormhole, and then she's trapped in the current timeline.
Then at the start of this episode the "snap back" thing is suddenly back on.

Did I miss something?

Was it actually destroyed though? By that stage it was Central responding about the "we need more power!" so clearly Central is running that ship and the whole thing could have been fiddled sensors/holograms etc.

Goodshape

corkie wrote: »

If the current story-line is the origin of 'The Borg', the paradox of the movie 'First Contact' would have had the borg wipe-out their own creators if they where successful.

Or did the events of First Contact, maybe some left-behind Borg tech they didn't quite understand, put Starfleet / Section 31 on the path to creating Control and thus giving birth to the Borg.

So *if* the Borg had succeeded in FC they would have prevented themselves from ever existing, but they didn't succeed and ended up creating themselves instead.

Paradox *this*.

Slydice

Enterprise already paradoxed the Borg / First Contact thing

corkie

@Goodshape YES! Didn't want to confuse things further with my post also mentioning Self Creation Paradox as well.

[screenrant] Star Trek Theory: Discovery Season 2 Is The Borg's Origin?

TheValeyard

Or the Borg already knew about this.

Maybe this is why they only send one cube at a time, where as other species have faced a swarm of cubes.

The Borg have been trying to get 24th century Starfleet up to a higher tech standard so they make sure the event of First Contact take place so the remains of Borg are found on Earth (Enterprise episode) and transmit that signal to the Delta Quadrant.......so Section31 can eventually create Control, possibly using Borg fragments from the Artic or destroyed assimilated vessel, which will be sent back in time to the Delta Quadrant and the birth of the Borg begins....again.

The Borg may be a fixed event in time, or created by another unseen force.

The signal sent to the Delta Quadrant could contain the mission for future Borg to ensure their survival. Maybe some of those Borg quotes have deeper meanings than what they appeared originally.


Borg Queen "Human, we used to be just like them"

Borg Hive: "Our survival is your survival"

Daith

Section 31 using leftover Borg parts to create Control sounds plausible but also too Terminator so I'm not sure that's the direction.

Johnny Storm

Spock has dyslexia? What's up with that? It seemed pretty irrelevant to me