Random Fitness Questions

silverharp

A row question, Im doing a landmine hex bar row , for me its comfortable to lean back a bit and have my back in a ~1'o'clock position as opposed to bent over. not undermining the exercise in any material way? I try not to let the bar get to high as i assume it starts getting lighter after a point

Alf Veedersane

silverharp wrote: »

A row question, Im doing a landmine hex bar row , for me its comfortable to lean back a bit and have my back in a ~1'o'clock position as opposed to bent over. not undermining the exercise in any material way? I try not to let the bar get to high as i assume it starts getting lighter after a point

It's making it easier if your back angle is greater because it means the angle between the bar and the floor is greater. The lower you go towards perpendicular to the floor increases the moment of the force.

voldejoie

Is there any actual benefit to taking collagen supplements?

I've been getting more and more into running during the pandemic and it's a big change as I used to swim at a high level, so the increase in impact with running is putting a good bit more stress on my joints (my knees in particular). A few people have suggested a collagen supplement would help but I'm finding it hard to get feedback from someone who has benefitted from taking it!

D'Agger

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just looking at your list, I just listed out the banded exercises I've done this lockdown and last. They're so versatile!


Curls (obvz)
Pallof press
Single-arm reverse flys
Push ups
Front raises
Lateral raises
Shrugs
OHP
Rows
Tricep pulldowns/kickbacks
Straight arm pulldowns
Wide-grip banded rows (with brush handle)
Overhead tricep extension
Face pulls
Curls (obvz)
Chest flys
Leg extensions (though its a bit awkward trying to keep it from sliding up your foot to the shin)
Hamstring curls
Good mornings
RDLs

Great list I'll check out some of them to see if there's any I can incorporate. I got hugely into them my last few years playing GAA because I found they weren't as hard as a gym session where I'd tend to overdo it but still offered benefit and fitted in well with foam rolling and recovery.

The overhead tricep extension I'm a bit iffy on: I think the band I have is too strong I'd like to get a lighter one - I've found with certain exercises if the band is too strong and you're not careful you'd risk doing an injury almost moreso than with too much weight in a gym, though that does seem ridiculous as I type it!

My outdoor is something I'm looking forward to in a big way as it's bands and involves a walk to an outdoor gym within my 5k but I park a bit away and walk down via a greenway - it's a nice excursion and a recovery walk back to the car after is always good. The indoor I tend to use dumbells and kettlebells more, I think it's a simple way to put variety in between the two sessions and make me look forward to them a bit more.

Alf Veedersane

D'Agger wrote: »

Great list I'll check out some of them to see if there's any I can incorporate. I got hugely into them my last few years playing GAA because I found they weren't as hard as a gym session where I'd tend to overdo it but still offered benefit and fitted in well with foam rolling and recovery.

The overhead tricep extension I'm a bit iffy on: I think the band I have is too strong I'd like to get a lighter one - I've found with certain exercises if the band is too strong and you're not careful you'd risk doing an injury almost moreso than with too much weight in a gym, though that does seem ridiculous as I type it!

My outdoor is something I'm looking forward to in a big way as it's bands and involves a walk to an outdoor gym within my 5k but I park a bit away and walk down via a greenway - it's a nice excursion and a recovery walk back to the car after is always good. The indoor I tend to use dumbells and kettlebells more, I think it's a simple way to put variety in between the two sessions and make me look forward to them a bit more.

I have three different bands depending on what I'm doing. OH tricep extension, I'd use the red band, which is the lightest of the three. I also use it for face pulls. I only ever go to a heavier band if I can knock out good quality reps rather than just going heavier for the sake of it.

Cill94

voldejoie wrote: »

Is there any actual benefit to taking collagen supplements?

I've been getting more and more into running during the pandemic and it's a big change as I used to swim at a high level, so the increase in impact with running is putting a good bit more stress on my joints (my knees in particular). A few people have suggested a collagen supplement would help but I'm finding it hard to get feedback from someone who has benefitted from taking it!

https://examine.com/supplements/type-ii-collagen/

Would appear not, unless you have some kind of degenerative joint disease. It's important to keep in mind there are literally just a handful of supplements that have concrete scientific evidence to support them.

I would recommend adjusting your running volume, and begin resistance training if you're not already.

Alf Veedersane

voldejoie wrote: »

Is there any actual benefit to taking collagen supplements?

I've been getting more and more into running during the pandemic and it's a big change as I used to swim at a high level, so the increase in impact with running is putting a good bit more stress on my joints (my knees in particular). A few people have suggested a collagen supplement would help but I'm finding it hard to get feedback from someone who has benefitted from taking it!

There are a couple of things that could be feeding into it. Runners, surface, muscles, weight to name a few. Where is it sore? Below your knee (between knee and shin), on the outside, etc?

bladespin

Robbed from the Amazon bargains thread, might be helpful:

Resistance bands

Alf Veedersane

bladespin wrote: »

Robbed from the Amazon bargains thread, might be helpful:

Resistance bands

I have those. I also have a couple I got from D8 Fitness and those Amazon ones are a lot lighter. I think the black 'X Heavy' one doesn't provide as much resistance as the blue mini band from D8.

Just in case that frame of reference is useful to anyone...

voldejoie

Cill94 wrote: »

https://examine.com/supplements/type-ii-collagen/

Would appear not, unless you have some kind of degenerative joint disease. It's important to keep in mind there are literally just a handful of supplements that have concrete scientific evidence to support them.

I would recommend adjusting your running volume, and begin resistance training if you're not already.

Thanks a mill! I'll keep an eye on my running volume, I'm using the Nike running club app to train for a half marathon so will maybe dial back a little and up my resistance training to see if there's an improvement.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

There are a couple of things that could be feeding into it. Runners, surface, muscles, weight to name a few. Where is it sore? Below your knee (between knee and shin), on the outside, etc?

I wouldn't say it has much to do with weight, I'm quite comfortably in the normal weight range according to my BMI (I'm 5' 7" and just under 65kg) but maybe I could do with shaving off a little more. It's not so much as pain as a kind of tightness or pressure, and it's mostly on my right knee (kind of on both sides of the knee, if that makes sense?) which makes me wonder if it could be my runners or my gait that's doing it!

I've today off as an annual leave day and went for a quick run followed by a long walk this morning and feel great after it though!

new2tri19

Guys is there an advantage to adding dumbells to the home gym ? When I read programs lots of accessories seem to have dumbell press or dumbell bench or curls . I'm wondering why not just use the barbell ?

I'm currently doing everything with the barbell or bands , have a few hundred quid I could add to home gym , already have a bench squat rack and pull up bar and weight plates up to 180kg.

The hex dumbells seem good but pricey enough , i don't mind spending 500 quid on them for someone with a max bench in the 70's and max overhead press in the 50's what size dumbells would you recommend? I'm guessing your not going to try a one rep with 2 X 35kg dumbells doing bench press it's probably more for longer sets ? But is barbell better ?

Anyway I'm thinking a set of 16 - 20kg - 25kg ?

Thanks

5-25kg dumbell set with rack 925 on adverts


2 x 5 kg
2 x 7.5 kg
2 x 10kg
2 x 12.5 kg
2 x 15 kg
2 x 20 kg
2 x 22.5 kg
2 x 25 kg

This be good enough ?

Alf Veedersane

new2tri19 wrote: »

Guys is there an advantage to adding dumbells to the home gym ? When I read programs lots of accessories seem to have dumbell press or dumbell bench or curls . I'm wondering why not just use the barbell ?

I'm currently doing everything with the barbell or bands , have a few hundred quid I could add to home gym , already have a bench squat rack and pull up bar and weight plates up to 180kg.

The hex dumbells seem good but pricey enough , i don't mind spending 500 quid on them for someone with a max bench in the 70's and max overhead press in the 50's what size dumbells would you recommend? I'm guessing your not going to try a one rep with 2 X 35kg dumbells doing bench press it's probably more for longer sets ? But is barbell better ?

Anyway I'm thinking a set of 16 - 20kg - 25kg ?

Thanks

5-25kg dumbell set with rack 925 on adverts


2 x 5 kg
2 x 7.5 kg
2 x 10kg
2 x 12.5 kg
2 x 15 kg
2 x 20 kg
2 x 22.5 kg
2 x 25 kg

This be good enough ?

The two main reasons would be (a) using dumbbells recruit more muscle to stabilise and (b) you're using your arms independently so they can help iron out imbalances. There are other reasons but they would be two of the main ones.

Dumbbells can complement barbell training for through reasons above but you can load more with the barbell.

You don't necessarily need to use them but if you're looking to invest in the home gym, dumbbells would be a good investment.

You could probably get a smaller set that would cater for both bench and overhead for €500. Something like 15/17.5/20/22.5/25 or maybe 12.5 instead of 22.5 to allow more for OHP (12.5/15/17.5) and add to it over time as needs be. Obviously those could be used for plenty of other exercises as well.

No, you wouldn't be testing your 1RM with dumbbells. They're not really for that top top end strength as such. Or you don't need them to be.

new2tri19

Fair play for the detailed reply appreciate it. Yeah I was thinking 12kg minimum then I asked the wife would she like some weights and she said she would use up to 10kg so the full set seems a no brainer now. I doubt id need anything much heavier than 25kg so I'll go ahead with that set . I can always add more later.
Thanks again .

Mellor

I’m a big fan of DB bench. Even for heavy 3-5RM work. The issue is that you need a lot of DBs to cover the range of a barbell and a few plates. You’d very quickly need 10+ pairs to cover curl, press, bench. If you have the space and the money. A full set of DBs is awesome to have.

Adjustables are either slow to move between weights. Or expensive.

new2tri19

Mellor wrote: »

I’m a big fan of DB bench. Even for heavy 3-5RM work. The issue is that you need a lot of DBs to cover the range of a barbell and a few plates. You’d very quickly need 10+ pairs to cover curl, press, bench. If you have the space and the money. A full set of DBs is awesome to have.

Adjustables are either slow to move between weights. Or expensive.

Thanks i've ordered that set from gymless on adverts, they supplied my weight plates and barbell and squat rack before and i'm very happy with the quality of the stuff so far.
I'll have 5-25 so should cover most exercises i'm not into adjustable stuff if i need heavier i'll buy some 27.5 and 30's , i don't mind spending money on stuff for health and you save gym membership. My thoughts are on what else now to make it a perfect home gym!

new2tri19

Currently using a flat bench which i prop up on a box to do incline may aswell get an adjustable bench now i'm getting dumbells .
Any opinon on this bench https://www.adverts.ie/benches/heavy-duty-fid-utility-bench/22841143 i'm trying to figure if your doing decline would you need some foot holder to stop you sliding off bench or does having your feet on the floor stop this. Sorry for stupid questions!
The bench says it does decline , is it even worth worrying about decline positions as they probably not necessary or used that often ? Thanks

Mellor

new2tri19 wrote: »

Currently using a flat bench which i prop up on a box to do incline may aswell get an adjustable bench now i'm getting dumbells .
Any opinon on this bench https://www.adverts.ie/benches/heavy-duty-fid-utility-bench/22841143 i'm trying to figure if your doing decline would you need some foot holder to stop you sliding off bench or does having your feet on the floor stop this. Sorry for stupid questions!
The bench says it does decline , is it even worth worrying about decline positions as they probably not necessary or used that often ? Thanks

The bench in the photo might do decline, it you take it unlatch the support completely. But there's no hook position that corresponds to a decline.

Decline is overrated imo though

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

Decline is overrated imo though

I'd agree on this.

bladespin

Dips

Brian?

Mellor wrote: »

The bench in the photo might do decline, it you take it unlatch the support completely. But there's no hook position that corresponds to a decline.

Decline is overrated imo though

Decline always struck me a gym bro exercise. You can load more weight on but you're basically cheating a bench.

Mellor

Brian? wrote: »

Decline always struck me a gym bro exercise. You can load more weight on but you're basically cheating a bench.

Pretty much my thoughts on it also.
What is it training that bench is lacking.

Black Sheep

Brian? wrote: »

Decline always struck me a gym bro exercise. You can load more weight on but you're basically cheating a bench.

I don't do declines at all, and never have, but....

I train conjugate style and some movements are 'easier' and some are 'harder' but you see variations in loading that partly even it out. They are all different enough that if you know what you're doing they can be worth doing. If someone has physique goals it can be even more important to be aware of that.

If you're doing declines you load it more... Same with rack pulls or block pulls in comparison with conventional deadlift. We wouldn't typically say they are 'easier' if you are going heavy enough on them.

There are also other big pressing movements that are 'harder' than the flat bench... Incline bench, spoto bench, paused bench... And to continue the deadlift analogy, you could say that deficit deadlifts and snatch grip deadlifts are 'harder' than conventional deadlifts.

But we wouldn't say don't do flat bench, do spoto press and long paused bench only... Or we wouldn't say only do snatch grip deadlifts, paused deadlifts or deficit deadlifts only etc.

Sometimes a movement that should be 'easier' or 'harder' is also down to the individual. Some people have weak points that mean their rack pull is the same weight as their conventional deadlift, or their floor press might be the same as their conventional bench press, if their triceps are weak and so on..

I think the real cheating is when you do a paused movement but you don't pause, or any movement were you shorten the ROM more than you're supposed to, or where you bounce when you shouldn't etc.

Then there's a further realm where you are not 'cheating' but you are missing the point. Or where you're close but undermining your goals by sub par execution. Bent over rows where forearms and biceps are too engaged springs to mind.

Alf Veedersane

Black Sheep wrote: »

I don't do declines at all, and never have, but....

I train conjugate style and some movements are 'easier' and some are 'harder' but you see variations in loading that partly even it out. They are all different enough that if you know what you're doing they can be worth doing. If someone has physique goals it can be even more important to be aware of that.

If you're doing declines you load it more... Same with rack pulls or block pulls in comparison with conventional deadlift. We wouldn't typically say they are 'easier' if you are going heavy enough on them.

There are also other big pressing movements that are 'harder' than the flat bench... Incline bench, spoto bench, paused bench... And to continue the deadlift analogy, you could say that deficit deadlifts and snatch grip deadlifts are 'harder' than conventional deadlifts.

But we wouldn't say don't do flat bench, do spoto press and long paused bench only... Or we wouldn't say only do snatch grip deadlifts, paused deadlifts or deficit deadlifts only etc.

Sometimes a movement that should be 'easier' or 'harder' is also down to the individual. Some people have weak points that mean their rack pull is the same weight as their conventional deadlift, or their floor press might be the same as their conventional bench press, if their triceps are weak and so on..

I think the real cheating is when you do a paused movement but you don't pause, or any movement were you shorten the ROM more than you're supposed to, or where you bounce when you shouldn't etc.

Then there's a further realm where you are not 'cheating' but you are missing the point. Or where you're close but undermining your goals by sub par execution. Bent over rows where forearms and biceps are too engaged springs to mind.

I don't necessarily think it doesn't have any value but I just haven't found any carryover and the movement feels a lot more removed from normal bench, with respect to bar path but that's more a specificity thing.

For me, its overrated because I don't feel it has ever added a whole lot of value as a variation. Take a mid-range pin press...you can load that a bit heavier but you're still moving the bar in a relatively similar path to bench. Rack pulls and block pulls, you should still be executing like you would a deadlift from that height.

I wouldn't think it would be a variation I would let dictate choice of bench for home anyway. But that's not to say it is a movement that has little value for everyone.

Black Sheep

Yes, I don't do it either.

I cycle through a lot of other movements that I vastly prefer.

Bench
Spoto press
Incline bench
Pin bench
Floor press
Thick grip
Larsen press

Those are the most similar to bench but I have a series of press and press variations I use too.

Press
pin press
Seated press etc

I change my main lift weekly where there are people doing conjugate who only switch up every several weeks. Overall what I see in my programming is that there is a natural variation in loading (and stress) from cycling through the different lifts. It's part of the attraction of conjugate for me, but I'm not getting ground down from endless flat benching.

Black Sheep

new2tri19 wrote: »

Fair play for the detailed reply appreciate it. Yeah I was thinking 12kg minimum then I asked the wife would she like some weights and she said she would use up to 10kg so the full set seems a no brainer now. I doubt id need anything much heavier than 25kg so I'll go ahead with that set . I can always add more later.
Thanks again .

I have a dumbbell rack and hex dumbbells, they are definitely a luxury option if you already have a bar, rack and plates, but there's no doubt they add a real sense of "I have a proper gym at home".

If you set up your workouts that you're using your bar for the main lifts of the day, then usually what will happen is that the dumbbells naturally lend themselves to being employed for the assistance work. In theory you usually can come up with a barbell-based movement, or something that just involves bodyweight, or a plate, or bands, but if you have the dummbells there then there's definitley a convenience and cool factor in being able to just wander over and pick up a set at the right weight.

If I was going to suggest a cheaper alternative if you're not sure...

An ez curl bar is more manoeuvrable and more elbow friendly for performing a lot of assistance exercises. Curl variations, lying and overhead tricep extensions etc.

But band work is great, especially when you can attack them to a rack and do pull down variations, face pulls etc.

Cill94

I think that people often don't realise that a properly executed bench press is already at least partially declined due to the back arch.

Very hard to hold an arch on a decline bench without sliding, due to the angle and no way to push feet into ground, so it seems like a waste.

If for some reason you needed to really target lower pec I would go for a dip, as was mentioned.

new2tri19

Black Sheep wrote: »

I have a dumbbell rack and hex dumbbells, they are definitely a luxury option if you already have a bar, rack and plates, but there's no doubt they add a real sense of "I have a proper gym at home".

If you set up your workouts that you're using your bar for the main lifts of the day, then usually what will happen is that the dumbbells naturally lend themselves to being employed for the assistance work. In theory you usually can come up with a barbell-based movement, or something that just involves bodyweight, or a plate, or bands, but if you have the dummbells there then there's definitley a convenience and cool factor in being able to just wander over and pick up a set at the right weight.

If I was going to suggest a cheaper alternative if you're not sure...

An ez curl bar is more manoeuvrable and more elbow friendly for performing a lot of assistance exercises. Curl variations, lying and overhead tricep extensions etc.

But band work is great, especially when you can attack them to a rack and do pull down variations, face pulls etc.

Yeah sound I've ordered them dumbells from gymless delivery first week of April , same as the adjustable bench I ordered from them. I'll take a look at the ez curl bar may add them .
I'm frugal enough in other areas of life but don't mind splashing out on hobbies I'm keen on , I stick 100 quid a week away and it's spent normally on bikes- races - runners etc but this year it's mostly on gym stuff.
Bought a log cabin couple of years ago for back garden mainly for zwifting it's turned out a great investment with lockdown.
Pity I never lifted when weights were cheaper seems everything is at a premium now but supply and demand and all that I don't mind.
I might add a lat pull down wall mounted pulley that can add Olympic weights that's the only thing I feel I'm missing now .

Black Sheep

A lat pull down / low row machine is one of the few machines I would consider for our set up, but we considered the footprint and on balance we are happy enough to "make do" with pull up variations on the rack, and some band pulldowns. Plenty of horizontal rowing options with barbell and DBs in lieu of the low row. Would get one if we had bigger space. I considered a pulley system but too much hassle.

If space was no object I would throw in a lying leg curl machine, love them. And a folding reverse hyper, why not... :rolleyes:

new2tri19

Black Sheep wrote: »

A lat pull down / low row machine is one of the few machines I would consider for our set up, but we considered the footprint and on balance we are happy enough to "make do" with pull up variations on the rack, and some band pulldowns. Plenty of horizontal rowing options with barbell and DBs in lieu of the low row. Would get one if we had bigger space. I considered a pulley system but too much hassle.

If space was no object I would throw in a lying leg curl machine, love them. And a folding reverse hyper, why not... :rolleyes:

Yeah it would be nice with unlimited space , I've enough room left for a lat pulldown machine. I like to keep my TT bike on the turbo for convenience I suppose I could move that into the side shed room part where my other bikes are dumped.

I also have an armchair and mini fridge where I once considered I might use it as a room to watch some sport but alas that never happened and the chair is full of toys and stuff the wife routinely dumps out in the shed that I have to find a place for

It's really about how commited you are , a lad with one plate could probably get a better workout than a lad with a full set up if he wanted it more.

new2tri19

Sorry for all the questions just working out my program for rest of week , what's the consensus on programming core work in a training program that includes compound lifts. Do you get enough core work from the compounds? If the answer is no , how often would you train core if doing a 4 day plan ? Thanks .