Issues with return of deposit

JustMe,K

Dav010 wrote: »

Am I missing something here?

Produce the closing statement, you get your deposit back, but refuse to produce it, open a dispute, wait for months for a ruling, then maybe get your money back. Op, the solution would seem obvious to most.

Yes, you are missing something - I cant produce the closing statement until its provided to me, which will take up to 2 weeks. I had been told I would get my deposit back within 10 days, which clearly wont happen unless I produce proof (that the LL may not even be entitled to) that the account in my name is closed and paid up to date.

paul71

Claw Hammer wrote: »

transferring of accounts happens all the time. Usually on the final inspection the meters are read and the suppliers are contacted by phone with the current reading and the name of the new account holder.

Does it? Can I transfer my electricity account to your name please?


See how it works now?

Claw Hammer

....... wrote: »

Grow up please.

Enforced investing? What planet are you on?

I am on a rational planet. I like to get out of situations with more money that I went in with.

JustMe,K

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The o/p should look on it as an investment.

Seriously? If I wanted to invest my money surely I should get to choose where and how it is invested?!

.......

kcdiom wrote: »

Seriously? If I wanted to invest my money surely I should get to choose where and how it is invested?!

The poster is trolling. I have already reported it. Use your ignore button.

JustMe,K

....... wrote: »

The poster is trolling. I have already reported it. Use your ignore button.

Thanks - some people

Dav010

kcdiom wrote: »

Yes, you are missing something - I cant produce the closing statement until its provided to me, which will take up to 2 weeks. I had been told I would get my deposit back within 10 days, which clearly wont happen unless I produce proof (that the LL may not even be entitled to) that the account in my name is closed and paid up to date.

If you took the meter reading the day you left and submitted it to your electricity supplier, it would have been an extra 4 days over the 10. Pay your bill, give it to the Ll, get your deposit. But you want to dig your heels in, open a dispute, wait months and then get your deposit. Help yourself get your deposit back as soon as possible.

JustMe,K

Dav010 wrote: »

If you took the meter reading the day you left and submitted it to your electricity supplier, it would have been an extra 4 days over the 10. Pay your bill, give it to the Ll, get your deposit. But you want to dig your heels in, open a dispute, wait months and then get your deposit. Help yourself get your deposit back as soon as possible.

The LL gave me the meter readings on the day I handed back the keys. I submitted it to the supplier that day. They said it would take 2/3 days to close the ac, then moved it to 10 days. I cant pay a bill I dont have.

Claw Hammer

kcdiom wrote: »

Seriously? If I wanted to invest my money surely I should get to choose where and how it is invested?!

Sometimes the investment chooses you. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth!

crkcvnirl

kcdiom wrote: »

So I have moved out of my rented property and the (large, 'professional', well known) landlord is refusing to return my deposit until I provide proof from my energy provider that I have closed my account, a copy of the final bill and proof pf payment. I had my move out inspection a few days ago, and there were no issues (arguably, the property was cleaner than when I took it on). Despite my view that this is unlawful and completely at odds with GDPR they are insistent on receiving the information and I suspect they are more than aware that raising a dispute over this with RTB will take up to 16 weeks. I have asked that they provide me with details of the legislation which allows them to withhold my deposit pending receipt of the above details, however they keep dodging the question - does anyone know if I am right or if they are right?

It's not as simple as just giving them what they want, as my energy supplier states it can take up to 10 days to produce the final bill and close the account.

This is absolutely appauling behaviour. If the bill was in the tenants name, then the LL is not held responsible for previous tenants utility bills. Even if a tenant owed €1000 in unpaid gas bills it's not LL problem. LL gives meter readings when putting back in his name and provider may ask for a forwarding address for the leaving tenant. That's it.


LL knows exactly what he's at! As long as service is not cut off prior to the move, paid or unpaid utility bills are not LLs problem. LLs are not debt collectors for ultility companies.



I do tenancy moves on a regular basis and would always show a tenant the meter and the reading and I always text or email them a picture of the actual meter reading for reference. Also noticed that utility companies want payment by DD or they'll charge renters a big deposit.


If property is clean and tidy on final inspection I return dep' there and then, clearly I'm one of the few.


Best of luck with RTB

Dav010

kcdiom wrote: »

The LL gave me the meter readings on the day I handed back the keys. I submitted it to the supplier that day. They said it would take 2/3 days to close the ac, then moved it to 10 days. I cant pay a bill I dont have.

To be fair, it is fairly standard, and understandable that the property owner wants to ensure the new tenant doesn’t have a problem opening an electricity account. Most tenancy contracts would stipulate that all utilities are paid and closed/transferred at the end of a tenancy before the deposit is returned. Sounds like the delay is being caused by the utility company. Why you think this warrants an RTB dispute is beyond me, the LL has told you your deposit will be returned when you show there is no outstanding bill on the property. The GDPR stuff you are on about is crap.

JustMe,K

Dav010 wrote: »

To be fair, it is fairly standard, and understandable that the property owner wants to ensure the new tenant doesn’t have a problem opening an electricity account. Most tenancy contracts would stipulate that all utilities are paid and closed/transferred at the end of a tenancy before the deposit is returned. Sounds like the delay is being caused by the utility company. Why you think this warrants an RTB dispute is beyond me, the LL has told you your deposit will be returned when you show there is no outstanding bill on the property. The GDPR stuff you are on about is crap.

The new tenant moved in today - they would know fairly lively if there was an issue connecting an account.

Holding onto 2.5k of someones (hard earned) money because of a potential bill of a couple of hundred euro when that person is currently in credit on their electricity account is insane.

It warrants an RTB dispute because it appears they have no legal basis to withhold my deposit.

Please explain to me how GDPR is crap? They have no basis for requesting the information they are requesting i.e. copy of my final bill, proof of payment.

JustMe,K

crkcvnirl wrote: »

This is absolutely appauling behaviour. If the bill was in the tenants name, then the LL is not held responsible for previous tenants utility bills. Even if a tenant owed €1000 in unpaid gas bills it's not LL problem. LL gives meter readings when putting back in his name and provider may ask for a forwarding address for the leaving tenant. That's it.


LL knows exactly what he's at! As long as service is not cut off prior to the move, paid or unpaid utility bills are not LLs problem. LLs are not debt collectors for ultility companies.



I do tenancy moves on a regular basis and would always show a tenant the meter and the reading and I always text or email them a picture of the actual meter reading for reference. Also noticed that utility companies want payment by DD or they'll charge renters a big deposit.


If property is clean and tidy on final inspection I return dep' there and then, clearly I'm one of the few.


Best of luck with RTB

Thanks - the property was cleaner than I got it, it was even remarked that the cleaners would have nothing at all to do. I never saw the meter, I have their word for it that the readings are as they have said - funny isn't it, I have to take their word that the readings are correct, yet they don't extend the same courtesy to me in respect of paying my bills!

The LL is big enough I guess that they get away with stuff like this. It is a significant sum they are withholding (well, to me anyway).

daheff

kcdiom wrote: »

The new tenant moved in today - they would know fairly lively if there was an issue connecting an account.

Holding onto 2.5k of someones (hard earned) money because of a potential bill of a couple of hundred euro when that person is currently in credit on their electricity account is insane.

It warrants an RTB dispute because it appears they have no legal basis to withhold my deposit.

Please explain to me how GDPR is crap? They have no basis for requesting the information they are requesting i.e. copy of my final bill, proof of payment.

i'm going to bet you get your deposit in a couple of days.

I reckon the LL was waiting for the new tenant to pay a deposit to refund yours.

Pursue them via RTB. Keep everything in writing. As for a photo of the ending meter reading.

beauf

....... wrote: »

Nope - the electricity provider cannot make you liable for a tenants bill.

They may not be legally allowed to do so. But I know first hand where they have done exactly that.

beauf

kcdiom wrote: »

... I had my move out inspection a few days ago...

kcdiom wrote: »

...I had been told I would get my deposit back within 10 days...

I'm confused. You said you were told you would get the deposit back within 10 days. But now you expect it back in a few days. Which is it?

Can you not login on line see your account and the payment, and the previous balance, print it out, blank out all the personal details, show LL Job done?

JustMe,K

beauf wrote: »

I'm confused. You said you were told you would get the deposit back within 10 days. But now you expect it back in a few days. Which is it?

I was told within 10 days maximum, then the issue with having to supply a copy of my final bill and proof of payment arises. So now it is 10 days from then.

beauf

kcdiom wrote: »

I was told within 10 days maximum, then the issue with having to supply a copy of my final bill and proof of payment arises. So now it is 10 days from then.

Was this a requirement in the lease you agreed to? or new?

Dav010

kcdiom wrote: »

It warrants an RTB dispute because it appears they have no legal basis to withhold my deposit.

Please explain to me how GDPR is crap? They have no basis for requesting the information they are requesting i.e. copy of my final bill, proof of payment.

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, it may take months for the dispute to be adjudicated on, by which time you will long have received your deposit if you give them proof of transferring/paying what is owed on your account.

The electric bill relates to their property and all it will have is your name on it, why would this be a GDPR issue? They already have your name, PPS number etc to register the tenancy, what extra info are you giving by showing your final statement?

handlemaster

kcdiom wrote: »

So I have moved out of my rented property and the (large, 'professional', well known) landlord is refusing to return my deposit until I provide proof from my energy provider that I have closed my account, a copy of the final bill and proof pf payment. I had my move out inspection a few days ago, and there were no issues (arguably, the property was cleaner than when I took it on). Despite my view that this is unlawful and completely at odds with GDPR they are insistent on receiving the information and I suspect they are more than aware that raising a dispute over this with RTB will take up to 16 weeks. I have asked that they provide me with details of the legislation which allows them to withhold my deposit pending receipt of the above details, however they keep dodging the question - does anyone know if I am right or if they are right?

It's not as simple as just giving them what they want, as my energy supplier states it can take up to 10 days to produce the final bill and close the account.

Have you paid the bills or not ?If you have whats the issue,if not you should. Sounds like a drama queen.

dudara

Was there anything written in your contract about this? If there was a specific clause in your contract, then they might have some grounds to withhold the deposit.

To be honest, this isn't something I'd fight over. If they're a large, professional organisation, they will likely return the deposit quickly once they're satisfied. I can understand why they would want to be sure that the tenant has taken care of all aspects of the tenancy. Give them the invoice and get your deposit back. You can still persue the dispute anyway.

Are you stuck for the money? As if not I don’t see the issue in just waiting for the letter. It’s only working yourself up over nothing.

If it were me, I’d just wait and not worry about it in the least. What difference does it make sitting in your savings account or in the LLs account for 10 days not like it’s going to be making any interest.

10pennymixup

kcdiom wrote: »

So I have moved out of my rented property and the (large, 'professional', well known) landlord is refusing to return my deposit until I provide proof from my energy provider that I have closed my account, a copy of the final bill and proof pf payment.....................................
...............................................................................................................
..........................................................................as my energy supplier states it can take up to 10 days to produce the final bill and close the account.

That's what you get when you deal with professional landlords...................Professionalism.

How best is a LL to ascertain whether a tenant has fulfilled their obligations of closing their utility a/c with the correct date and reading? A LL can't ask the utility company as it's your a/c. What are they to do, take everyone at their word that it has been done?

You'll also find it's written, in some form on most residential leases. Again professionalism.

If not, it's common sense.

You said yourself that the utility company normally have this sorted in 2/3 days which would have allowed the quick return of your deposit, but have moved the time frame since. That's not the LLs problem.

Even threshold say:

"Although there is no specific timeframe is set down in law, Threshold recommends that under normal circumstances a deposit should be returned within 14 days of the end of a tenancy."

So even if the utilities stall it to 10 days its still with in thresholds (non legally standing) guideline of 14. Will the RTB even entertain such a premature complaint?

It is debatable whether they should hold such a large sum of money dependent on final utility bills, but that's what happens with professional LL's. They will hold it until all business is concluded. It's business nothing personal.

Show your final bills. Redacted if necessary, they only need really the closure date and reading and supplier name to take over the a/c. They don't need to see how much you do or don't owe the utility company. I also don't see the need proof of final payment, not really their business, unless it's in imminent danger of disconnection.

.......

Kailey Numerous Khaki wrote: »

Are you stuck for the money?

Good lord - have we really reached a place where tenants are expected to have to hand 2 months rent plus a deposit plus the deposit of the last place available to them in order to be able to move on in life?

JustMe,K

Thanks for all the opinions.

To reiterate, the electricity supply is in my name, therefore nothing to do with the LL and again I cannot pay a bill I do not have. I find it somewhat amusing how willing people are to accept that a LL would hold onto a sum of money which represents at least 10 multiples of my average bills for the sake of a bill thats in my name. I guess its easy to take hat view when its someone elses money!

JustMe,K

If someone could let me know please how to close this thread that would be appreciated.

beauf

....... wrote: »

Kailey Numerous Khaki wrote: »

Are you stuck for the money?

Good lord - have we really reached a place where tenants are expected to have to hand 2 months rent plus a deposit plus the deposit of the last place available to them in order to be able to move on in life?

Many if not most other countries require far longer deposits and obligations them we do in Ireland.

The problem in this case is how the utilities are so slow in how they close accounts. Also how their dubious practises where they transfer the bill and pressure collection of same to someone one else. Tenant should not be able to walk away from an outstanding bill. Not that that's what the OP is doing but it's why this is so dysfunctional.

beauf

kcdiom wrote: »

Thanks for all the opinions.

To reiterate, the electricity supply is in my name, therefore nothing to do with the LL and again I cannot pay a bill I do not have. I find it somewhat amusing how willing people are to accept that a LL would hold onto a sum of money which represents at least 10 multiples of my average bills for the sake of a bill thats in my name. I guess its easy to take hat view when its someone elses money!

The LL as you point out knows nothing about your bills. How do they know how much to hold on to?

You say it's nothing to do with the LL. But that's not true if the supply company block the property from supply, charge a reconnect fee, or try to recover the debt from the LL. Which they have been known to do.

Your issue here is with the supplier get them to close the account faster. Once they do that it gets sorted.

10pennymixup

kcdiom wrote: »

Thanks for all the opinions.

To reiterate, the electricity supply is in my name, therefore nothing to do with the LL and again I cannot pay a bill I do not have. I find it somewhat amusing how willing people are to accept that a LL would hold onto a sum of money which represents at least 10 multiples of my average bills for the sake of a bill thats in my name. I guess its easy to take hat view when its someone elses money!

You can reiterate all you want, it won't make you right.

It is not the LLs problem that you didn't fulfill your tenancy obligations in a timely manner, and blaming the utility companies and the LL is not going to detract from that.

If you have made a similar big stink over it with the LL, I wouldn't be surprised if the LL waited until they were certain there were no problems with the account.

You have threatened RTB action and demanded to see legislation from the LL that proved the LL was right, over a standard practice. The first thought I'd have if a tenant tried this, is that there is something wrong with the account, maybe it's about to be cut off and they want the deposit back before I find out? The more the tenant shouted the more suspicious I'd become until proven wrong. And what's the best proof....yes, the final statement/bill.

If the LL doesn't return some or all of your deposit after you do what you should have done in the first place, then you have a complaint you can bring to the RTB. Until then you are just coming across as one of those empty vessel big bad landlord bashers jumping on a populist band wagon.

I am sure personally you are a decent upstanding citizen that pays all their bills diligently and will have no problem showing there isn't an issue with the account. But to the LL this is business, all t's to be crossed and all i's dotted. A small time LL may have done something for you, but that's what you get with big professional LL's like REIT's

.......

10pennymixup wrote: »

It is not the LLs problem that you didn't fulfill your tenancy obligations

How exactly did the OP not fulfill their tenancy obligations?