sacked whilst handing in notice

robarmstrong

Hi guys,

A friend of mine who started a new job in January ended up handing their notice period in (only heard their side of the story but apparently it's just not right for them). Although it states in their contract that no notice is required from either party if it's under the 13 week period, they gave a month as it was a senior position (senior sys admin) and the team is small enough as it is with one of their colleagues going on holidays for 6 weeks (well for some!!) in mid-April. After he handed his notice in his manager came to his desk and told him to leave immediately.. Is that right? Can that be done? I've never heard of a situation like this, wouldn't they have to pay him for the month he gave them?

Sebastian Dangerfield

robarmstrong wrote: »

Hi guys,

A friend of mine who started a new job in January ended up handing their notice period in (only heard their side of the story but apparently it's just not right for them). Although it states in their contract that no notice is required from either party if it's under the 13 week period, they gave a month as it was a senior position (senior sys admin) and the team is small enough as it is with one of their colleagues going on holidays for 6 weeks (well for some!!) in mid-April. After he handed his notice in his manager came to his desk and told him to leave immediately.. Is that right? Can that be done? I've never heard of a situation like this, wouldn't they have to pay him for the month he gave them?

I think you have your own answer.

robarmstrong

It says no notice is required from either party as its under the 13 week period but he gave 1 month just out of good faith (to what I'm aware anyways).

So what I'm confused about is even though he wasn't required to give notice, he did give notice so the workload wouldn't fall on just the 1 person whilst the other senior was on holidays - which is fair enough.

gordongekko

robarmstrong wrote: »

It says no notice is required from either party as its under the 13 week period but he gave 1 month just out of good faith (to what I'm aware anyways).

So what I'm confused about is even though he wasn't required to give notice, he did give notice so the workload wouldn't fall on just the 1 person whilst the other senior was on holidays - which is fair enough.

Probably concerned they'd take confidential information with them so to be safe they said they'll call it a day there and then

limnam

Fairly standard I'd say

robarmstrong

gordongekko wrote: »

Probably concerned they'd take confidential information with them so to be safe they said they'll call it a day there and then

I was thinking that myself, but once he's kicked off the resignation process (even though there's no notice required) and given them a month, surely they'd have to pay him the notice period, or am I mistaken?

dudara

robarmstrong wrote: »

So what I'm confused about is even though he wasn't required to give notice, he did give notice so the workload wouldn't fall on just the 1 person whilst the other senior was on holidays - which is fair enough.

Sometimes it's better to get a leaver out the door, rather than have them in the office for an extended period with everyone knowing that they're due to leave. Pull off the Band-Aid, if you want to think of it that way. Yes there will be short term pain, but no one is irreplaceable.

DopeTech

Standard enough, they would be worried he'd take info with him or wreck the gaff before the leaves.

sheesh

No longer his problem, maybe they have a replacement already lined up and want to get them started asap maybe the job has some security element and it is corporate policy, maybe the manager just lost the head when he heard he was leaving and fecked him out in a rage.

As you say no notice required.

It's unfortunate as your friend was trying to do right by the company.

seamus

He's only been there for 3 months, so the management probably don't feel he can add much value in that extra month, and would rather not pay him to sit around twiddling his thumbs. Whether that's fair is irrelevant, they're entitled to think like that.

In terms of the notice, the minimum notice can only be reduced with mutual agreement. If an employee has given more than the minimum notice, the company is under no obligation to accept it and can insist on sticking to the minimum. Which is in this case, zero.

Sir Oxman

Just ensure your friend knows he wasn't sacked, he resigned.

BrokenArrows

Contract clearly states that either side can give zero notice.
Doesn't matter that your friend gave a months notice first. The employer decided that since it was within 13 weeks that they would just cut ties now.

robarmstrong

Was just on the phone to him there and apparently in his contract it states whilst on probation either party can give 2 weeks notice of termination, he e-mailed me across that bit of his contract.

I misunderstood the 13 weeks bit

So they'd have to either pay him the 2 weeks notice as agreed (as it states in the contract during probation - which he was on - either party has to give 2 weeks notice of termination) or his manager cools off and lets him work the 2 weeks?

The fact he resigned probably indicates that all wasn't well in the job, in one respect or another. Obviously they didn't see it worth their while paying him another month's salary if they didn't have to- he obviously wasn't "needed" enough to keep him on, company has saved a bit of money- not nice but less than 3 months isn't a long time in a job.
Just shows though, don't rely on your next months salary when resigning under these conditions- you might not work that long to get it.

Tiddlypeeps

Was he officially fired? I would think that he would need to be fired in order to force him to leave before the month? Unless they have him on garden leave and plan to pay him the month regardless.

I find it weird a company would fire someone who was leaving of their own accord for the sake of a months pay. Even if it was within a probation period they still open themselves up to a lot more avenues for being sued.

is_that_so

robarmstrong wrote: »

Was just on the phone to him there and apparently in his contract it states whilst on probation either party can give 2 weeks notice of termination, he e-mailed me across that bit of his contract.

I misunderstood the 13 weeks bit

So they'd have to either pay him the 2 weeks notice as agreed (as it states in the contract during probation - which he was on - either party has to give 2 weeks notice of termination) or his manager cools off and lets him work the 2 weeks?

I'd ask for the money and to hell with trying to work out the notice. He's out the door anyway.

robarmstrong

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

Was he officially fired? I would think that he would need to be fired in order to force him to leave before the month? Unless they have him on garden leave and plan to pay him the month regardless.

I find it weird a company would fire someone who was leaving of their own accord for the sake of a months pay. Even if it was within a probation period they still open themselves up to a lot more avenues for being sued.

I don't think he was officially fired but his side of the story was that after he handed the month's notice into HR, they informed his manager who came over to him in a huff and told him that he'd need to leave immediately.

Turns out that it's in his contract that either side can terminate on two weeks' notice during the probation period, which would obviously (at least to my understanding) overrule the outlined bog standard employment law no notice for under 13 weeks service, no?

Tiddlypeeps

robarmstrong wrote: »

I don't think he was officially fired but his side of the story was that after he handed the month's notice into HR, they informed his manager who came over to him in a huff and told him that he'd need to leave immediately.

Turns out that it's in his contract that either side can terminate on two weeks' notice during the probation period, which would obviously (at least to my understanding) overrule the outlined bog standard employment law no notice for under 13 weeks service, no?

The company terminating his employment is being fired. He should clarify with them if he is being fired or not, because if not then he would need to agree with them a shorter notice period.

robarmstrong

He's being dismissed with immediate effect but being paid for the 2 weeks of notice.

mods can close, thanks for everyone's input!

Never thought I'd hear of someone getting the sack handing their notice in

no.8

So what if they've a 6-week holiday, sure what's it to anybody else (e.g. could be partially unpaid, maybe they've had it planned a long time etc.). Not unusual in many countries to do so.

On another note, seems that have been no irregularities. I hope your friend finds a job that suits him/her

dennyk

robarmstrong wrote: »

Never thought I'd hear of someone getting the sack handing their notice in

Garden leave isn't that uncommon, especially in fields like IT where there may be security concerns about having a short-timer hanging around, and especially when the employee was fairly new anyway and probably doesn't have a ton of knowledge to transfer or long-term projects to wrap up or hand over. It's not "getting the sack"; he still resigned, but they're just telling him not to come in during his notice period.

(At least he's not in the US; it's not uncommon at all there to be fired on the spot for giving notice, and since employment there is at-will and anyone can be fired at any time without notice, they don't even have to pay you for the rest of your notice period...)

Jim2007

robarmstrong wrote: »

He's being dismissed with immediate effect but being paid for the 2 weeks of notice.

mods can close, thanks for everyone's input!

Never thought I'd hear of someone getting the sack handing their notice in

You seem to be jumping to all kinds of conclusions on very little knowledge or experience.

From what you have told us he has not been dismissed nor have they refused to pay him. The company simply has put him on gardening leave as is common for senior positions especially if the person has not been with the company for very long.

Now to avoid future confusion gardening leave is not the same as holidays. Your friend must still be available should the employer need to contact them or call them into the office on short notice he is still on their dime and failing to be available could see him having wages docked etc.

skallywag

The situation here is clear, he resigned and was then asked to leave immediately, with him being paid for the two weeks notice even though he will not work it.

This is extremely normal. Once an employee resigns it is very common that they are asked to leave immediately, unless they have niche knowhow which is *must* he handed over to someone else.

The person in question was definitely not fired.

seamus

skallywag wrote: »

This is extremely normal. Once an employee resigns it is very common that they are asked to leave immediately, unless they have niche knowhow which is *must* he handed over to someone else.

I wouldn't oversell it

It's not uncommon, but it's not typical in my experience. The only times I've ever seen anyone not work out their notice is when they've been made redundant or there's been some level of disciplinary issues or they've left to go work for a competitor.

Obviously there are other reasons, but they're the only ones I've seen. 99% of the colleagues who've left, have worked out their full notice, even when everyone around them knows how to cover their role.

Berserker

skallywag wrote: »

The situation here is clear, he resigned and was then asked to leave immediately, with him being paid for the two weeks notice even though he will not work it.

............

The person in question was definitely not fired.

Definitely not fired in this case but can an employee be fired once they hand in their notice in writing? Would have thought that a person needs to be given a reason for being fired and you can't fire an employee because they've resigned and they are not in breach of contract.

Jim2007

seamus wrote: »

I wouldn't oversell it

It's not uncommon, but it's not typical in my experience.

And what is your experience may we ask? Which industry, which work area? In my experience finance/IT I can't remember a single person working out their notice period, being put on gardening leave was the standard.

When I resigned last time, I handed my notice to my manager, security were called and someone was sent to supervise my office clearance and I was gone. I then spent six months on gardening leave until I could legally take up my position when a new employer.

skallywag

Happens quite a lot in my own experience, though admittedly mostly on projects which would be deemed sensitive, and where the customer would not feel comfortable with someone working on their project who is already mentally gone. In many cases the employee will anyway want to leave ASAP so it suits all sides, though we have had cases where the employee wanted to work out the notice and we have ended up paying out on long notice periods while terminating all ties immediately.

It can also be common when someone if leaving in a disgruntled state, and is working in a role where malicious harm could be a possibility.

Interesting Q concerning can one be fired after handing in notice, I do not think so (unless they somehow managed to mess up the resignation process).

partyguinness

In my field of work I've seen it plenty of times where someone hands their notice in on a Monday morning.

Worker is then asked to help out with handover of files etc for the week and all seems normal. Then an hour later is suddenly summoned down and told to get the hell out asap. The unaware will have the humiliation of having to go back to their desk in front of colleagues and pack up their stuff maybe with a security guard or HR standing over them.

To the more worldly wise, you clear out all your stuff the day before (without raising suspicion) and maybe not even take your coat that day so you can literally walk straight the door without any undue embarrassment (phone in arse pocket).

Just given pay in lieu.

partyguinness

Berserker wrote: »

Definitely not fired in this case but can an employee be fired once they hand in their notice in writing? Would have thought that a person needs to be given a reason for being fired and you can't fire an employee because they've resigned and they are not in breach of contract.

Nah. If you are still under probation it doesn't matter. The employer will just come up with some BS anyway.

seamus

Jim2007 wrote: »

And what is your experience may we ask? Which industry, which work area? In my experience finance/IT I can't remember a single person working out their notice period, being put on gardening leave was the standard.

When I resigned last time, I handed my notice to my manager, security were called and someone was sent to supervise my office clearance and I was gone. I then spent six months on gardening leave until I could legally take up my position when a new employer.

I've been in technology for close to twenty years now, across a variety of sectors, including finance.

Some companies I've known are more paranoid than others and faster to give someone the boot, but it's very far from typical in my experience, with most people working out their notice.

I'd bloody love to go on gardening leave but never had the pleasure.

Packing up your desk and being sent home immediately sounds very American. Do you work in Ireland?

partyguinness

skallywag wrote: »

Interesting Q concerning can one be fired after handing in notice, I do not think so (unless they somehow managed to mess up the resignation process).

It will depend on the length of service. As this person is still under probation they have not accrued any employment rights re unfair dismissal. So in this situation fired/handed in notice it doesn't really matter.