Something called eSports on Sky Sports

Pac1Man

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

An Olympic sport? Lads sitting around playing computer games and getting a gold medal for it? I’ve heard it all now.

I was known as Quick Thumb Terrence in my estate back in the day. "Fastest thumbs in the West" they said.

FrankieFeeler

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I think you're wording is wrong. eSports is real, the content is digital. There are still real people sitting in real seats looking at real computers with real controllers playing a game that exists, so it was made by real people.

The player presses the button, which sends a signal to the computer to do something. Same as golf, input-output, but the outcome is digital. I suppose reading a book is not real, even if the book, pages and ink are real, the content lets your imagination fill in the blanks, so it's not real?

Also, what we're doing right now, a back and forth digital conversation, that's not real by your standards, so you're not real, neither am I. Are we all bots, AI pretending to be human? Is the real us stuck in some biological pod with pink fluid and wires connected to us, imagining this life we're having, a la The Matrix? Did you believe in God at any stage? Or any diety? What you consider real does not limit what is real. Open your mind, broaden your horizons. Or don't.

They are not real as sports because the sport that is being contested in an e-sport is not happening just a simulation of the sport based on a computer program that has been designed by somebody.

In madden e-sport competition a football is not being thrown, players are not catching the ball, there is no running or tackling.In a real game of a american football all of those things happen.

99% of the work in an e-sport is done by the person who has designed the game if the game is designed badly nothing happens. 100% of the work in a real sport is being done by the person playing it. Nobody apart from Lionel Messi causes him to pass a ball accurately for an accurate pass to be executed in the FIFA computer game a programmer must design a program properly so that when a button is pressed what is supposed to happen will happen.

Technically this conversation isn't 100% real as once again it depends on a computer program to be programmed correctly. What if when I input the letter A the program for boards is designed badly and so the output is B on the other side.Everything I type here depends on the program for boards to work properly, everything I say in reality is 100% based on me .

FrankieFeeler

sk8erboii wrote: »

Thats a low IQ argument and everyone knows it

Not it's not.

My statement is 100% accurate.

sk8erboii

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

Not it's not.

My statement is 100% accurate.

Your statement does not refute anything. You show a lack of understanding of what esports is. All you did was say a non-refutable statement and called it a win.


. Didnt you bring up braveheart as well?

Also 1+1 = 2.

FrankieFeeler

sk8erboii wrote: »

Your statement does not refute anything. You show a lack of understanding of what esports is. All you did was say a non-refutable statement and called it a win.


. Didnt you bring up braveheart as well?

Also 1+1 = 2.

Good lad yourself.

Rothko

Comfy Af Atm Tbh wrote: »

Esports? Anyone can get good a computer game with enough time

You could say that about anything.

scamalert

id rather watch esports and then play some competitive matches then drink beer and shout at the screen while someone else is pouring sweat and health into it.


difference being one can partake in most esports easily, dont think many can go out randomly and find football team let alone play entire match for real.

Potential-Monke

So why can't sports in an electronic fashion be called Electronic Sports? One of the major players in the gaming industry is Electronic Arts (feelings about them aside), but going by your explanation, it's not real art because it's not physical. And gaming is an art, just like sport. I think we should just agree to disagree, we both seem firm in our stances.

Comfy Af Atm Tbh wrote: »

Esports? Anyone can get good a computer game with enough time. It's not a skill.

Only a small minority have what it takes to be a professional sportsman.

And now I know you know nothing about gaming.

Anyone can get good at sports with enough time, it's not a skill. Only a small minority have what it takes to be a professional gamer.

Sounds ridiculous right? So does your comment to people who understand gaming as an industry. There are between 500-1000 professional gamers out there. There are about 265 million professional soccer players, so not including other sports. Sounds easier to become a professional sports star than it does to become a professional gamer. Yes, more people play sport so it would be higher, but it's still easier sounding to become a pro gamer. Wonder why more people don't do it?

Mrcaramelchoc

Sport : definition

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


Ill just leave that there.

Esports me arse.

Potential-Monke

Yeah, we're not calling it sports for that reason. It's eSports, as in electronic sports. What's so hard to understand? Is email not real because it's not physical mail?

scamalert

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

Sport : definition

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


Ill just leave that there.

Esports me arse.

if you imagine pressing any keys fast is considered pro give it a shot and let us know once you replace working for living punching buttons to being pro and getting paid 5 digits for that.

Potential-Monke

Comfy Af Atm Tbh wrote: »

Computer games are an amusing diversion for children, that's it really.

Wow... You could practice playing Through the Fire and the Flames on Guitar Hero for years and still not be able to play it without mistakes. Stupid analogy.

Again, funny hearing someone call another person childish for being a gamer, which in itself is a childish remark. Top points.

scamalert

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wow... You could practice playing Through the Fire and the Flames on Guitar Hero for years and still not be able to play it without mistakes. Stupid analogy.

Again, funny hearing someone call another person childish for being a gamer, which in itself is a childish remark. Top points.

no point explaining as old generation only thinks theres value in sweat and hard work, same people will say trading isnt a job either surely those few in 1% are just fcking around with buy and sell. Now imagine kid 13yr old making more per match then someone who grind in life for decades to make same amount per year and you'll get millions reasons why smth isn't to their liking.
Just because it seems that something doesnt require skill and high IQ never mind reaction and motor skills involved strategy, i could name hundreds sports/professions where id say they are pushing pen and paper for a living, seems easy yet only few get to do it.

JohnnyFlash

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Wow... You could practice playing Through the Fire and the Flames on Guitar Hero for years and still not be able to play it without mistakes. Stupid analogy.

Again, funny hearing someone call another person childish for being a gamer, which in itself is a childish remark. Top points.

You still aren’t playing guitar though. Just a simulation of it.

Potential-Monke

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

You still aren’t playing guitar though. Just a simulation of it.

K

the_pen_turner

If someone has cancer and can't speak for themselves but uses one of those boxes that speaks for them.

Are you really having a conversation with them or is it only a computer simulation.

Potential-Monke

Here, if its so easy to be a gamer so, off with ye, buy either a PC and VR headset (really expensive) or a PS4 and PSVR, get Beat Saber and 100% this without missing anything. By the way, you have 2 controllers which are like the hilt of the sabers you can see in this, so you're physically swinging your arms to cut the blocks of the same colour in the direction of the arrow. This one is only out a couple of weeks, so you have time to get it done before anyone else and make money from it (as Beat Saber is about to take off imo).

If this game becomes professional, and people start making money off it (people made money off Guitar Hero), is it still not a sport, even though there's a physicality to it, you get out of breath and sweat, just like 'real' sports?

sonic85

How did this turn into gamers calling people out of touch and non gamers saying these games are not real? None of that has anything to do with the OP.

I 100% agree with the OP - if I pay a sub for Sky Sports I want to see soccer, american football, basketball, MMA etc. I definitely don't want to turn on and see lads playing video games. It's as simple as that

sk8erboii

sonic85 wrote: »

How did this turn into gamers calling people out of touch and non gamers saying these games are not real? None of that has anything to do with the OP.

I 100% agree with the OP - if I pay a sub for Sky Sports I want to see soccer, american football, basketball, MMA etc. I definitely don't want to turn on and see lads playing video games. It's as simple as that

Because its true. You’d have to be out of touch to ignore the esports industry

https://www.investopedia.com/news/booming-esports-industry-hit-138b-2018/

Nobody’s taking anything away from you. All theyre doing is adding in another revenue stream and a younger audience.

Its really not that hard to understand. Unless youre out of touch.

cdeb

sonic85 wrote: »

I 100% agree with the OP - if I pay a sub for Sky Sports I want to see soccer, american football, basketball, MMA etc. I definitely don't want to turn on and see lads playing video games. It's as simple as that

I dunno. If I paid for a sub for Sky Sports and got American football, basketball and MMA, I'd be fairly pissed off. I definitely don't want to turn on and watch stuff which would get a 5-year jail sentence in real life. Horses for courses like.

I don't have any interest in egaming/esports - there's issues over videogame addiction for one; they're not really team sports, which may give rise to general social interaction and cooperation issues; and I think FIFA (one of the most popular esports I think) is actually quite **** compared to actually going to a real football game - but I think the competition is legitimate. It goes further back than the last ten years too; wiki says the first computer game tournament was in 1972, and there was Gamesmaster on Channel 4 for 6 years in the 90s. It's probably only in the last decade that it's become effectively pro though.

I think there's poor arguments on both sides in this thread; the "grumpy out-of-touch old men" and the nonsense about multiple genders on the pro side, and the "anyone can master a computer game" stuff on the contra side. Neither side is really helping themselves with comments like that.

sonic85

cdeb wrote: »

I dunno. If I paid for a sub for Sky Sports and got American football, basketball and MMA, I'd be fairly pissed off. I definitely don't want to turn on and watch stuff which would get a 5-year jail sentence in real life. Horses for courses like.

I don't really know what you're trying to say here to be honest. If you turned on Sky Sports and seen sports you'd be pissed off? You don't like MMA I presume which is grand but it's a sport. You can't say the same for a lad playing Fifa 2019 or NBA 2k.

I have nothing against computer games. I used to play them quite a lot myself - I just don't think a dedicated sports channel is the place for them

sonic85

sk8erboii wrote: »

Because its true. You’d have to be out of touch to ignore the esports industry

https://www.investopedia.com/news/booming-esports-industry-hit-138b-2018/

Nobody’s taking anything away from you. All theyre doing is adding in another revenue stream and a younger audience.

Its really not that hard to understand. Unless youre out of touch.

Nobody's ignoring it man - if it's huge it's huge and fair play to the lads that are making money from it. It's not a sport though and you can't argue that fact. And the constant out of touch jibes are just coming across as really childish TBH

cdeb

sonic85 wrote: »

I don't really know what you're trying to say here to be honest. If you turned on Sky Sports and seen sports you'd be pissed off? You don't like MMA I presume which is grand but it's a sport. You can't say the same for a lad playing Fifa 2019 or NBA 2k.

I have nothing against computer games. I used to play them quite a lot myself - I just don't think a dedicated sports channel is the place for them

Yeah, MMA is bollox. That's another thread of course, and I'm not going to try persuade you otherwise if you like it.

Is it a sport? Yeah, it is (though I hate to really call it a sport as most sports tend not to be utterly illegal if played by kids on the green in a housing estate)

But my point is that people like different things - I don't like most of the sports you mentioned, so I would be annoyed if I turned on the TV and that's all that was on. Snooker, a League of Ireland game, a bit of hurling - great. But others would be annoyed if those were on of course.

I do find the idea that people would want to watch other people playing computer games weird - partly because I don't think FIFA is even that realistic, so it pales compared to watching an actual football game - but if there's money there, then I can understand sports TV stations showing eSports. If you don't want to watch, there's 752 other channels to choose from - or you could go for a walk, read a book or even play some sport. I'm not sure anyone is claiming they're actual sports, and I certainly wouldn't be giving government funding to them in the way regular sports are financed.

Skylinehead

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

They are not real as sports because the sport that is being contested in an e-sport is not happening just a simulation of the sport based on a computer program that has been designed by somebody.

In madden e-sport competition a football is not being thrown, players are not catching the ball, there is no running or tackling.In a real game of a american football all of those things happen.

99% of the work in an e-sport is done by the person who has designed the game if the game is designed badly nothing happens. 100% of the work in a real sport is being done by the person playing it. Nobody apart from Lionel Messi causes him to pass a ball accurately for an accurate pass to be executed in the FIFA computer game a programmer must design a program properly so that when a button is pressed what is supposed to happen will happen.

Technically this conversation isn't 100% real as once again it depends on a computer program to be programmed correctly. What if when I input the letter A the program for boards is designed badly and so the output is B on the other side.Everything I type here depends on the program for boards to work properly, everything I say in reality is 100% based on me .

Is motorsport sport? The driver presses the accelerator, which tells a computer to make the car go faster...

sk8erboii

Game Changer wrote: »

You're comparing playing a guitar with taping buttons on a piece of plastic?

You realise that's like comparing masturbation with making love to a beautiful woman, right?

Mastrbation is a sport (;

sonic85

cdeb wrote: »

Yeah, MMA is bollox. That's another thread of course, and I'm not going to try persuade you otherwise if you like it.

Is it a sport? Yeah, it is (though I hate to really call it a sport as most sports tend not to be utterly illegal if played by kids on the green in a housing estate)

But my point is that people like different things - I don't like most of the sports you mentioned, so I would be annoyed if I turned on the TV and that's all that was on. Snooker, a League of Ireland game, a bit of hurling - great. But others would be annoyed if those were on of course.

I do find the idea that people would want to watch other people playing computer games weird - partly because I don't think FIFA is even that realistic, so it pales compared to watching an actual football game - but if there's money there, then I can understand sports TV stations showing eSports. If you don't want to watch, there's 752 other channels to choose from - or you could go for a walk, read a book or even play some sport. I'm not sure anyone is claiming they're actual sports, and I certainly wouldn't be giving government funding to them in the way regular sports are financed.

Yeah let's just give the MMA thing a wide berth. I like it and know it's not for everyone - I just used it as an example. To call it bollocks is a load of bollocks though but it's your opinion.

Hold on though - most of the other 752 stations I don't have to pay for and that's the point. That's why I pay for Sky or BT or whatever - for sports not computer games. There was actually a channel at one stage that showed gaming. Not sure if it still exists but it was there at one point in time. If gaming is that popular which some people in this thread are suggesting - wouldn't it make more sense to have a dedicated channel for it?

cdeb

But why should paying for a channel give you carte blanche to decide what's on it?

I don't like MMA (and let's use this as a general example). If I pay for a Sky Sports sub and there's MMA on, that doesn't give me the right to give out. You just watch something else.

I get that you don't consider eSports an actual sport, and I tend to agree, but then there's poker on Sky as well. Is that a sport? I don't think so (though I'm aware I defended chess as a sport earlier in the thread, so I may be contradicting myself here). But that doesn't mean I'm entitled to complain that my money is being wasted because there's poker on the sports channel I pay for.

It's just horses for courses.

Turtwig

Each to their own. Nobody gets a monopoly on what is and isn't a sport. All aspects of human skill and dexterity should be appreciated. Nothing more exciting in my eyes than people at the peak of their abilities competing with and against one another.Esports deserves an audience. Whether it's a "sport" or not is immaterial.

Now if we could complain about the shoutcasting commentary then I'd agree that sh1t needs to be killed with fire!

sonic85

cdeb wrote: »

But why should paying for a channel give you carte blanche to decide what's on it?

I don't like MMA (and let's use this as a general example). If I pay for a Sky Sports sub and there's MMA on, that doesn't give me the right to give out. You just watch something else.

I get that you don't consider eSports an actual sport, and I tend to agree, but then there's poker on Sky as well. Is that a sport? I don't think so (though I'm aware I defended chess as a sport earlier in the thread, so I may be contradicting myself here). But that doesn't mean I'm entitled to complain that my money is being wasted because there's poker on the sports channel I pay for.

It's just horses for courses.

I don't really know why were arguing here because I think our opinions aren't radically different.

I never said I want carte blanche to decide what's on - there's loads of stuff on sports channels I have no interest in whatsoever but even though I have no interest in them they are sports and they have their place on sports channels. Gaming of any description doesn't belong on dedicated sports channels IMO. And I agree chess or poker or any of that type of sh!te shouldn't be aired on them either. Again, IMO

aaronjumper

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

who would actually sit down and watch two fat lads play computer games? Am I missing something?

At least Liverpool were hammering Manchester United in the final, so there's that I suppose.

OP can't fathom people that would sit down and watch other people play a video game.

OP talks about sitting down and watching other people play football.

As to whether or not it should be considered a sport, I don't know.
I don't really care. It just slightly amuses me when people that regularly watch sports condemn watching gaming.
Different strokes.

I'm sure OP is a WUM from other posts on here but I wanted to answer anyway.

Cookie_Monster

To those who dismiss esports, what think ye of drone racing? It of course contains some real world physical drones and courses but at the same time you basically use a joy pad and vr headset. No fitness required, just a lot of skill.
Does it qualify enough to be a real sport?

aaronjumper

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

To those who dismiss esports, what think ye of drone racing?
It or course contains some real world physical drones and courses but at the same time you basically use a joy pad and vr headset. No fitness required, just a lot of skill.
Does it qualify enough to be a real sport?

Gave that a watch the other day.
Can get pretty dizzying when they cut to a camera on a drone.
Looks good though.

Necro

It's not a sport. But I think that even the gamers are essentially acknowledging that hence the 'E' tagged on in front.

I'm not a fan of it at all tbh, I just dont get the appeal of sitting around watching people gaming when I can be doing it myself.

Cant do that with Gaelic football or soccer as I'm a **** player and my ankles are fooked. But I can watch that and enjoy it.

Do I care if esports are on the Sports channels? Nope. I have to put up with sh1te like cricket, golf and fooking horse racing so what's one more thing to avoid :pac:

FrankieFeeler

Nixonbot wrote: »

Is motorsport sport? The driver presses the accelerator, which tells a computer to make the car go faster...

E-Sports are simulations of potential real life events.

When you drive a car you are actually driving a car.One of the main aspects of motor racing is having the bravery to drive a car that fast, you don't need any of that to do the e-sport version of it.

My issue with e-sports is they are simulations of real things and not actually the real thing.

To be honest the point I was making is really not that difficult to understand.

If all commercial "sports" could be sent to some sports radio and sports tv gulag and stop cannibalising mainstream news - the 10 minutes "sports" bulletins on Morning Ireland at 7:30am being a case in point - radio would be infinitely more tolerable.

TV is a lost cause in its entirety, in large part because the "sport" business has been imposing its business agenda on the rest of us for decades now under the guise of being some sort of community spiritual endeavour rather than the big money and big gambling racket which it is in its entirety.

And this lark of sneering at a follower of some other commercial "sport" for not being a serious "sports" fan. Jesus, my head.

FrankieFeeler

Deleted User wrote: »

If all commercial "sports" could be sent to some sports radio and sports tv gulag and stop cannibalising mainstream news - the 10 minutes "sports" bulletins on Morning Ireland at 7:30am being a case in point - radio would be infinitely more tolerable.

TV is a lost cause in its entirety, in large part because the "sport" business has been imposing its business agenda on the rest of us for decades now under the guise of being some sort of community spiritual endeavour rather than the big money and big gambling racket which it is in its entirety.

And this lark of sneering at a follower of some other commercial "sport" for not being a serious "sports" fan. Jesus, my head.

If people want to watch it that's fine, but it doesn't mean they are sports.

Skylinehead

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

E-Sports are simulations of potential real life events.

When you drive a car you are actually driving a car.One of the main aspects of motor racing is having the bravery to drive a car that fast, you don't need any of that to do the e-sport version of it.

My issue with e-sports is they are simulations of real things and not actually the real thing.

To be honest the point I was making is really not that difficult to understand.

You're driving a computer that drives the car.

the_pen_turner

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

E-Sports are simulations of potential real life events.

When you drive a car you are actually driving a car.One of the main aspects of motor racing is having the bravery to drive a car that fast, you don't need any of that to do the e-sport version of it.

My issue with e-sports is they are simulations of real things and not actually the real thing.

To be honest the point I was making is really not that difficult to understand.

thats the thing. i can put on gran tourismo and drive a ferrari are 200mph and set blistering fast laps, in reality i would be upsidown in a ditch at the first corner.
i agree there is a lot of skill etc in e sports but its not the same as actually doing it.

FrankieFeeler

Nixonbot wrote: »

You're driving a computer that drives the car.

The car is moving from point A to Point B.

On a computer game nothing moves from one point to another which is the entire purpose of driving a car.

Skylinehead

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

The car is moving from point A to Point B.

On a computer game nothing moves from one point to another which is the entire purpose of driving a car.

Electricity moves

theoneeyedman

Woke Hogan wrote: »

Video games cannot be sport, they’re games. Chess isn’t a sport for the same reason.

Breakdancing is likely to be included in the forthcoming Paris Olympic games!

pjohnson

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats the thing. i can put on gran tourismo and drive a ferrari are 200mph and set blistering fast laps, in reality i would be upsidown in a ditch at the first corner.
i agree there is a lot of skill etc in e sports but its not the same as actually doing it.

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

E-Sports are simulations of potential real life events.

When you drive a car you are actually driving a car.One of the main aspects of motor racing is having the bravery to drive a car that fast, you don't need any of that to do the e-sport version of it.

My issue with e-sports is they are simulations of real things and not actually the real thing.

To be honest the point I was making is really not that difficult to understand.

The two of ye should get onto the heads of all the F1 teams and tell them they are doing their jobs wrong.

Necro

I mean there's lots of things I don't consider sports - more skills - but I don't mind them being on the sports channels.

Where else do people suggest putting them? MTV or the History Channel perhaps?

Fact is people pay for certain sports. I pay to watch the soccer, and I guess the darts at Christmas, with a bit of WWE thrown in there.

The other stuff that's on there - golf, cricket, F1, etc. I don't watch it. But I also don't mind that they're there as obviously someone else does.

FrankieFeeler

pjohnson wrote: »

The two of ye should get onto the heads of all the F1 teams and tell them they are doing their jobs wrong.

So you are saying that what Lewis Hamilton does isn't actually happening and is just a simulation and that if he makes a big mistake he wouldn't even have a risk of having a scratch after it.

I'm sure there are thousands of people who could set faster Lap Times on the F1 video game than Forumla 1 drivers do on a track.

sk8erboii

Its hilarious. The old men in this thread claim to not give a fvck about esports, yet feel so passionately against it.

Its obvious its not about esports. Its about feeling left out in a changing world.

Esports is the thing nowadays, old man. Itll be on TV and on the internet. If you dont like it then skip it. But dont complain because its not what youre used to. Worlds changing.

FrankieFeeler

sk8erboii wrote: »

Its hilarious. The old men in this thread claim to not give a fvck about esports, yet feel so passionately against it.

Its obvious its not about esports. Its about feeling left out in a changing world.

Esports is the thing nowadays, old man. Itll be on TV and on the internet. If you dont like it then skip it. But dont complain because its not what youre used to. Worlds changing.

I guess you're right, someone in their mid twenties would be old in the eyes of a seven year old.

sk8erboii

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

I guess you're right, someone in their mid twenties would be old in the eyes of a seven year old.

Lame comeback.

pjohnson

FrankieFeeler wrote: »

So you are saying that what Lewis Hamilton does isn't actually happening and is just a simulation and that if he makes a big mistake he wouldn't even have a risk of having a scratch after it.

I'm sure there are thousands of people who could set faster Lap Times on the F1 video game than Forumla 1 drivers do on a track.

No I'm saying that F1 teams spend a fortune designing realistic simulators to allow them to test new parts/components or let drivers acclimatise to a new track etc. Ferrari used their sim driver (now actually in a race seat) to aid their race drivers in perfecting the car set-up last year when the race drivers were struggling on track.

If the sim is that shíte that thousands of people can do better than the race drivers they really need to redevelop the sim. Even the F1 game posts realistic times :pac:

All F1 teams have at least one sim driver now. And yes often the race drivers do also use the simulator. The simulator is the only form of testing available to the teams now. But you really need to save them from themselves with your luddite wisdom!

leggo

These threads are the worst.

One side: “This thing I don’t understand but can easily ignore should go away. I’m going to create a really thin argument for why it’s actually wrong when really I’m just annoyed that a lot of people like something I don’t understand!”

The other: “This thing makes money so if you don’t like it you’re wrong and an idiot! I also don’t like certain things myself but I’m right for not liking the things I don’t like and you’re an idiot for not liking the thing I do like!”

And it goes on and on and on. Someone was literally questioning what reality was at one stage. That’s the post that resonated most with me reading this thread. I don’t know how I feel about esports myself so I read this hoping for a good explanation that’d swing me either way. Now I hate people who both like and don’t like it and am just more confused.

FrankieFeeler

pjohnson wrote: »

No I'm saying that F1 teams spend a fortune designing realistic simulators to allow them to test new parts/components or let drivers acclimatise to a new track etc. Ferrari used their sim driver (now actually in a race seat) to aid their race drivers in perfecting the car set-up last year when the race drivers were struggling on track.

If the sim is that shíte that thousands of people can do better than the race drivers they really need to redevelop the sim. Even the F1 game posts realistic times :pac:

All F1 teams have at least one sim driver now. And yes often the race drivers do also use the simulator. The simulator is the only form of testing available to the teams now. But you really need to save them from themselves with your luddite wisdom!

I understand they have simulators.

My point being that regardless of the sport a simulation does not come close to the real thing precisely because it is not the real thing. Thats been my entire point in this whole thread.

Did this simulator drivers have zero experience in a real car that actually moved around a track before graduating to racing in F1?