Where's the deterrent for shіthead scumbags in society?

El_Bee

https://www.herald.ie/news/courts/dad-who-peddled-misery-had-active-role-in-drugs-trade-38054843.html

Keith Gilroy (26) had been a "good sportsman" before he got involved in drugs and the "hole he dug for himself got bigger and bigger".

A good ****ing sportsman, this is real.

Judge John Hughes jailed him for nine months, but the sentence is to run concurrently with a five-year prison term he is already serving for transporting a loaded revolver and possession of more than €40,000 worth of crack cocaine and cannabis.

Drag these judges through the streets and string them up, they are the biggest threat to whats left of the fabric of society.

Mad_maxx

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Modern governments have no interest in building houses. The socialist governments post ww2 were Interested in those things (NHS in UK is a left wing miracle that couldn't be possible with today's right wing voters and governments). But somehow now that centre right governments have been in charge for the last few decades, all the problems are the left's fault.

You're veering into conspiracy theory territory there.

If the lefties were in charge there would be much more focus on restorative justice, rehabilitation for drug addicts, better education for poorer areas, better social mobility, better prospects and ultimately, lower crime rates.

But fewer crimes would mean less punishment. And I think punishment is ultimately the main thing for some people.

The "poor" of today have far more opportunity than the majority had fifty years ago, education is free and a strong safety net exists, the problem is a breakdown of values

These things begin in the family home

El_Duderino 09

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The "poor" of today have far more opportunity than the majority had fifty years ago, education is free and a strong safety net exists, the problem is a breakdown of values

These things begin in the family home

Ok. But that's not really anything to do with the post you quoted. Socialist governments did incredible things in the past between building social housing and health and education systems. Those things could never be repeated with the conservative attitudes of the current governments and voters. The notion that socialists are in charge now is ridiculous.

sk8erboii

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The "poor" of today have far more opportunity than the majority had fifty years ago, education is free and a strong safety net exists, the problem is a breakdown of values

These things begin in the family home

‘breakdown of values’ i bet you cant quantify that at all

Btw the ‘poor’ of 50 years ago had better RDV. Im guessing you know what that means, seeing as youre knowledgeable in economy

El_Duderino 09

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We do that already. We spend millions on it. You are confusing social fixes with justice when a crime was committed.



You generally oppose incarceration and defend the criminality based on circumstances. Specific examples of “this isn’t so criminal” you dont quite say but you generally are hostile to all incarcerations. Getting you to commit to a system that isn’t vague virtue signalling is impossible.



What should happen to him? People who engaged in your kind of rhetoric (the racist guy might have had a hard life) were correctly dismissed as racist apologists in that thread.



This is fairly typical of the way you argue. In the previous thread you also lumped me in with some other guy who said something I didn’t say, here apparently I’m supposed to defend a position I didn’t say. It’s a loaded question.

I’ll take the rest of this to the other thread.

I'm not sure what you're projecting onto me but I never once said anyone had a hard life. Never once excused a crime. Never once said "this isn't so criminal" (I don't even know what that means tbh). And I've also told you specifically I don't oppose the principle of incarceration. I don't know how many times I can tell you I don't oppose incarceration.

And then you accuse me of strawmaning. Too ironic.

It's amusing that you've made your mind up about what I think about the taxi guy. I mean, you're wrong but I think you're probably happy with your assumption so I won't burden you with the truth unless you ask.

Getting me to commit to a concrete action is easy. I've told you loads of times that I think there should be treatment form the drug problems. Both the causes of drug use AND DRUG ADDICTION after the crime in prison. Because when a drug addict leaves prison they're very likely to commit more crimes so the only solution in that situation is to deal with the drug addiction. Treat it as a health issue as in Portugal or whatever it takes to have greater success in treating the addiction.

It's not as simplistic as another posters arbitrary sentence of 10 years in prison because 5 years is too few and 20 is too many- I kid you not. Some poster actually said that was how they worked out how long the sentence should be.

imme

Hal3000 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/dundalk-4608976-Apr2019/

Seems this is now a regular thing in Ireland, but don't lock them up, let's explore why they do it ????

3 strike and you're out campaign has to be started up in this kip we now live in.

No "3 strikes..." is not the answer.

There are penalties that apply to all law-breaking.

Just apply what the penalty is, and for heaven's sake STOP concurrent sentencing.

El_Duderino 09

imme wrote: »

No "3 strikes..." is not the answer.

There are penalties that apply to all law-breaking.

Just apply what the penalty is, and for heaven's sake STOP concurrent sentencing.

Concurrent sentencing is a bit like BS for separate crimes. But the American system is bonkers. The might charge 6 crimes for one incident.

Use of a deadly weapon. Brandishing a deadly weapon. GBH. Intent to use a deadly weapon. Armed robbery. So someone ends up with 100 years for one crime. It's Almost arbitrary.

Some of the above sentences could sensibly be Concurrent. But bundling completely separate crimes together with Concurrent sentences is senseless. Sentences should be strategic.

Mad_maxx

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ok. But that's not really anything to do with the post you quoted. Socialist governments did incredible things in the past between building social housing and health and education systems. Those things could never be repeated with the conservative attitudes of the current governments and voters. The notion that socialists are in charge now is ridiculous.

The clement atlees of their day would recoil in horror at what passes for left wing politics today

El_Duderino 09

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The clement atlees of their day would recoil in horror at what passes for left wing politics today

Ok. Something tells me you're not too concerned about pushing a left wing agenda so probably best to a thread about how it's all the lefties fault.

Hal3000

Another beaut. When is this going to end???

https://www.thejournal.ie/suspended-sentence-for-man-who-mugged-tourists-in-dublin-4658743-May2019/

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

Another beaut. When is this going to end???

https://www.thejournal.ie/suspended-sentence-for-man-who-mugged-tourists-in-dublin-4658743-May2019/

Lol. Let me guess: He should have gotten the magical 10 year sentence that posters prescribe for nearly all crimes.

Ricosruffneck

https://www.thesun.ie/news/4148842/gang-attack-chinese-takeaway-staff-dublin/

There was a thread, 'Gangs from' that suited this headline.

seems to have been deleted.

mynamejeff

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Lol. Let me guess: He should have gotten the magical 10 year sentence that posters prescribe for nearly all crimes.

i think the point is that he should have already been safely locked up away from his most recent victims had thee been a fair and just legal system in place

El_Duderino 09

mynamejeff wrote: »

i think the point is that he should have already been safely locked up away from his most recent victims had thee been a fair and just legal system in place

That might be true. As far as the most recent one goes I think it makes sense to suspend the sentence as long as he rehabs.

The most stupid thing imaginable would be to lock,him.up surrounded by drugs and with nothing to do and no hope. Sounds like the quickest way to create a drug addict whether they have a predisposition to it or not.

El_Bee

Dude prison is too draconian for these guys, did you know that the majority of criminals re-offend once they are released? This PROVES that prison doesn't work just live and let live we should look into more homeopathic solutions like this:

El_Duderino 09

El_Bee wrote: »

Dude prison is too draconian for these guys, did you know that the majority of criminals re-offend once they are released? This PROVES that prison doesn't work just live and let live we should look into more homeopathic solutions like this

You can advocate for that if you like.

victor8600

El_Bee wrote: »

Dude prison is too draconian for these guys...

The pic says "People take ownership of public spaces and have hard conversations with each other".

I think this means that we need to take baseball bats and re-claim public spaces with some heavy interactions. But be careful to respect the integrity of the person you are interacting with, so no cutting implements.

El_Duderino 09

victor8600 wrote: »

The pic says "People take ownership of public spaces and have hard conversations with each other".

I think this means that we need to take baseball bats and re-claim public spaces with some heavy interactions. But be careful to respect the integrity of the person you are interacting with, so no cutting implements.

This is it. It sounds like chaos. People like yourself who would relish the opportunity to "take back the streets" with your baseball bat are one of the reasons I'm glad we have police.

There are dangerous people out there.

victor8600

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This is it. It sounds like chaos. People like yourself who would relish the opportunity to "take back the streets" with your baseball bat ...

Dude, it's like your opinion man. I am just translating the meaning of the attached picture.

You know what "community-centered lifestyle" mean? It's mafia basically. "We protect each other" means that "we" will fight those who tries to fight us. "Justice prioritized" means that if "we" feel that something is unjust, what do "we" do? Dish out a just solution in a community-centered space.

So what picture describes is that if there is no repressive organ of the state (aka police), the community becomes the judge and the oppressor of anti-community elements.

El_Duderino 09

victor8600 wrote: »

Dude, it's like your opinion man. I am just translating the meaning of the attached picture.

You know what "community-centered lifestyle" mean? It's mafia basically. "We protect each other" means that "we" will fight those who tries to fight with us. "Justice prioritized" means that if "we" feel that something is unjust, what do "we" do? Dish out a just solution in a community-centered space.

So what picture describes is that if there is no repressive organ of the state (aka police), the community becomes the judge and the oppressor of anti-community elements.

I get it. The picture having kindly looking people is funny though.
Some people would love to have vigilante mobs administering "justice".

I think those people presume they would be part of the mob rather the one being beaten by the mob.

victor8600

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The picture having kindly looking people is funny though.

mynamejeff

El_Bee wrote: »

Dude prison is too draconian for these guys, did you know that the majority of criminals re-offend once they are released? This PROVES that prison doesn't work just live and let live we should look into more homeopathic solutions like this:

this looks like a children's work sheet for ages 4 -5 and expresses the same level of understanding of humanity

GreeBo

El_Bee wrote: »

Dude prison is too draconian for these guys, did you know that the majority of criminals re-offend once they are released? This PROVES that prison doesn't work

Did you know that 90% of criminals who don't go to prison go on to re-offend?
this proves that prison does work.

El_Duderino 09

mynamejeff wrote: »

this looks like a children's work sheet for ages 4 -5 and expresses the same level of understanding of humanity

Ah be fair. It's parody, isn't it?

mynamejeff

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Ah be fair. It's parody, isn't it?

some times especially on here it isn't unfortunately

El_Duderino 09

mynamejeff wrote: »

some times especially on here it isn't unfortunately

Elaborate on that. Do you mean there are people who want a police free society or people who want vigilante mobs?

I can tell you I've seen plenty of posters advocate for mob justice. Not sure I've ever seen a poster happy clappy advocating for police free society.

Hal3000

Another beauty

https://www.thejournal.ie/pharmacy-employee-screwdriver-4671385-Jun2019/

14 months! Hopefully this gets reduced and he might be out in time for Christmas.

By this rational I could batter a shop assistant and say I did it because paying off a mortgage debt. Those bankers are a dangerous bunch too...

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

Another beauty

https://www.thejournal.ie/pharmacy-employee-screwdriver-4671385-Jun2019/

14 months! Hopefully this gets reduced and he might be out in time for Christmas.

By this rational I could batter a shop assistant and say I did it because paying off a mortgage debt. Those bankers are a dangerous bunch too...

Depends who you got your mortgage from and what they'll do to you if you can't pay.

I live with someone who works with criminals and it's fascinating to hear how it works. You get into debt either in prison it on the street, and then you have to work off your debt for them. You're in their pocket. They tell you to go rob a bookies or a shop and it's up to you to figure out how to do it and to get it done. If you get away with it, They take the money and you get £100 for your next couple of fixes. They call on you the next time they want a bookies robbed. If you're caught, you're on your own. Dont do it and they'll attrack you and your family.

In the moment, Most people would do whatever it takes to keep themselves and their family safe.

Sending the drug addict to prison where he'll be surrounded by drugs will just lead to him leaving prison with more debt. And guess what happens then.

Obviously the way to break the cycle and keep the public safe and happy in the long term is to get the guy off drugs but more importantly to tackle the reasons people turn to drugs in the first case.

I know you've no interest in people's safety so I don't expect this info to have any impact on your opinion.

Gael23

American Airlines have a new flight to Dallas. That’s not for from the Huntsville unit.
Only place for a few of them

Hal3000

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Depends who you got your mortgage from and what they'll do to you if you can't pay.

I live with someone who works with criminals and it's fascinating to hear how it works. You get into debt either in prison it on the street, and then you have to work off your debt for them. You're in their pocket. They tell you to go rob a bookies or a shop and it's up to you to figure out how to do it and to get it done. If you get away with it, They take the money and you get £100 for your next couple of fixes. They call on you the next time they want a bookies robbed. If you're caught, you're on your own. Dont do it and they'll attrack you and your family.

In the moment, Most people would do whatever it takes to keep themselves and their family safe.

Sending the drug addict to prison where he'll be surrounded by drugs will just lead to him leaving prison with more debt. And guess what happens then.

Obviously the way to break the cycle and keep the public safe and happy in the long term is to get the guy off drugs but more importantly to tackle the reasons people turn to drugs in the first case.

I know you've no interest in people's safety so I don't expect this info to have any impact on your opinion.

Yes, by wanting to lock up repeat violent offenders means I now have no interest in other people's saftey... Christ allfu*kin mighty..... That maybe the most ridiculous I think I've ever read here...

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

Yes, by wanting to lock up repeat violent offenders means I now have no interest in other people's saftey... Christ allfu*kin mighty..... That maybe the most ridiculous I think I've ever read here...

Lol. Your posts in this thread are the reason for the above opinion. You repeatedly favour locking up drug addicts who committed crimes to get money or drugs. Losing them in prison surrounded by drugs. You favour this approach even when they are are actually off drugs and engaging in drug rehabilitation. Locking them in prison now would almost certainly result in them coming out of prison as a drug addict who will offend again to get money for drugs.

You love the idea of punishment and ridicule the idea of actually tackling the root cause of these crimes - drug addiction and the factors that lead to drug addiction in the first place.

The line you trotted out repeatedly is that locking them up will keep people safe. The will be safe from this one guy for a short while, then he will be back on the street as a drug addict committing crimes until he's caught again. Dealing with the drug problem would keep lots of people safe in the long run.

Don't worry, i don't expect you to understand the argument i've made. You've failed to understand it every other time I've made it.

El_Duderino 09

They're discussing this topic on LBC radio right now. Taking calls from people like prison officers. Just tuned in but sounds interesting.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

They're discussing this topic on LBC radio right now. Taking calls from people like prison officers. Just tubed in but sounds interesting.

Actually forget it. They have people who know nothing about crime and punishment and victims saying the best way to protect the public is to reduce the number of criminals where possible, through rehabilitation. The know-nothings like the former police commissioner of Durham City in County Durham, North East England. And a former prison officer and a former criminal.

They probably don't know as much as an angry bloke on Boards who thinks the solution is harsher sentences.

mynamejeff

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Actually forget it. They have people who know nothing about crime and punishment and victims saying the best way to protect the public is to reduce the number of criminals where possible, through rehabilitation. The know-nothings like the former police commissioner of Durham City in County Durham, North East England. And a former prison officer and a former criminal.

They probably don't know as much as an angry bloke on Boards who thinks the solution is harsher sentences.

your concerned about keeping people safe , the addicts and the familys of addicts

what about these shopkeepers and bookies and other victims of addicts crimes ? do they not deserved to be safe from criminals , ya know cos they arent criminals and are taxpayers and contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of the life styles of addicts.

fair enough your focused of the causes of such criminality but you dont seem to understand anything about the consequences for the victims

El_Bee

mynamejeff wrote: »

your concerned about keeping people safe , the addicts and the familys of addicts

what about these shopkeepers and bookies and other victims of addicts crimes ? do they not deserved to be safe from criminals , ya know cos they arent criminals and are taxpayers and contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of the life styles of addicts.

fair enough your focused of the causes of such criminality but you dont seem to understand anything about the consequences for the victims

I blocked this guy ages ago, he's either a wind up merchant or completely divorced from reality.

Cryptopagan

One evening I was walking through Dublin and there was this couple who were walking along carrying a box of cans (can't remember if is was one box each, or one big box between the two), obviously on their way to a party. Anyhow, a bunch of scumbags were walking in the opposite direction, and as they passed, this one lad who had the scummiest head on him you can imagine, punched a hole in the box and pulled a can out. He had this look on his face after doing it like he thought he was such a badass. The couple just looked shocked, upset and annoyed. I really hope that guy pulls that with the wrong person one day and gets his head kicked in.

El_Duderino 09

mynamejeff wrote: »

your concerned about keeping people safe , the addicts and the familys of addicts

what about these shopkeepers and bookies and other victims of addicts crimes ? do they not deserved to be safe from criminals , ya know cos they arent criminals and are taxpayers and contribute to the upkeep and maintenance of the life styles of addicts.

fair enough your focused of the causes of such criminality but you dont seem to understand anything about the consequences for the victims

Maybe you should tell this to the police chief, prison officer and former criminal who works with offenders. They seem to think that rehab is the single most Important thing. It just happens I said the same thing.

If you want to make bookies and shop keepers safe from junkies and criminals? reduce the number of junkies and criminals. Harsher sentences are almost completely beside the point. The main thing they do is make people who like the idea of harsh sentences happy. Nothing matters to a junkie who needs money because there sick and need more drugs. The nuances of sentencing practice are irrelevant to them. The only thing that might make a difference is to get those people off drugs. That would keep people safe.

El_Duderino 09

El_Bee wrote: »

I blocked this guy ages ago, he's either a wind up merchant or completely divorced from reality.

This character should be sure to block the police chief, prison officer and the criminals who spoke about this topic on the radio earlier. That's the only way to be sure never to hear any informed opinions.

was there a police chief on the radio earlier

only i dont think you mentioned it

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

was there a police chief on the radio earlier

only i dont think you mentioned it

Oh yeah, there was a police commissioner on the radio earlier. I should have said.

I thought the callers on the show would have some influence since they're the people with years of actual experience of the topic. But that sort of thing caries little weight with some people.

The less some people know the more certain they are that they're correct.

Nikki Sixx

Some other scumbag might shoot them? That’s the biggest deterrent.

Hal3000

El_Bee wrote: »

I blocked this guy ages ago, he's either a wind up merchant or completely divorced from reality.

It's El dude that's on the wind up...

El_Duderino 09

Hal3000 wrote: »

It's El dude that's on the wind up...

The people on the radio who work in the industry must be on the wind up too. You must think you're very important to have so many people go out of their way just to wind you up.

Or maybe the opinion held by these people who worked in the area are actually valid.

Franz Von Peppercorn II

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This character should be sure to block the police chief, prison officer and the criminals who spoke about this topic on the radio earlier. That's the only way to be sure never to hear any informed opinions.

I notice you stay clear of the hate crime threads.

Putting the term hate before the term crime tends to reverse ideologies.

mynamejeff

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Maybe you should tell this to the police chief, prison officer and former criminal who works with offenders. They seem to think that rehab is the single most Important thing. It just happens I said the same thing.

If you want to make bookies and shop keepers safe from junkies and criminals? reduce the number of junkies and criminals. Harsher sentences are almost completely beside the point. The main thing they do is make people who like the idea of harsh sentences happy. Nothing matters to a junkie who needs money because there sick and need more drugs. The nuances of sentencing practice are irrelevant to them. The only thing that might make a difference is to get those people off drugs. That would keep people safe.

about the nonsense response i expected

you either woefully misunderstand the topic being discussed or are as many others here have already asserted are trolling

addicts have a chemical dependency true but a lot are greedy childish and selfish too. most criminals dont care about the fear o injury to their victims in spite what their solicitor will tell a judge.

we should be protected from people like that and confining them is the only way to do this in the short term without massive social change that would remove drug addictions as a problem

El_Duderino 09

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

I notice you stay clear of the hate crime threads.

Putting the term hate before the term crime tends to reverse ideologies.

I didn't have a strong opinion on that thread when I clicked on it. I Didn't go back to it so I don't know what's happening in it.

El_Duderino 09

mynamejeff wrote: »

about the nonsense response i expected

you either woefully misunderstand the topic being discussed or are as many others here have already asserted are trolling

addicts have a chemical dependency true but a lot are greedy childish and selfish too. most criminals dont care about the fear o injury to their victims in spite what their solicitor will tell a judge.

we should be protected from people like that and confining them is the only way to do this in the short term without massive social change that would remove drug addictions as a problem

You say my post Is nonsense and then simply rephrase what I said.

I agree drug addicts have a chemical dependency. I agree they don't give a shyte when they commit their crimes. Im pretty sure I made that point in the post you called nonsense.

Unless you think you can lock up all the junkies and keep them locked up for ever, then you're only papering over the problem.

There is no quick fix because it's a big problem. Expecting a quick fix is childish.

Drug addiction alone is. Problem that's been a long time in the making. Previous generations have ignored the problem sand it has grown. You can choose to pass a bigger problem to the next generation or you can choose to address it. If you care about shop workers and bookies, you'll want to reduce the number of junkies.

El_Bee

Hal3000 wrote: »

It's El dude that's on the wind up...

That's who I blocked lol, complete wind up merchant, or lives in fantasy land of rainbows & unicorns.

El_Duderino 09

El_Bee wrote: »

That's who I blocked lol, complete wind up merchant, or lives in fantasy land of rainbows & unicorns.

Lol. This character doesn't have a clue. Block ideas that he doesn't already agree with. And if they blocked me they have no idea about the characters who called I to the radio from all sides of justice, who had the same opinion as me. #ignoranceisbliss lol.

Hal3000

https://www.thejournal.ie/rape-sentencing-anthony-moynihan-4692723-Jun2019/

Moynihan has three previous convictions for sexually assaulting two young girls in 2008 and 2009 for which he received a suspended sentence

So apparently in Ireland now, sexual assault does not warrant any custodial sentence. What an utter joke out judicial system has become. It cannot be defended anymore.