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Ireland should stop selling houses to non residents

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    #92
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    chuchuchu wrote: »
    I was thinking of how expensive it is to buy a house/apt in Dublin. When you factor in that a morgage can be only 3.5 times a persons salary and the average salary is 45000. Then for example a 3 bed house should cost about 200000 including the deposit. But I dont understand how the house prices are like double that price, I mean who could aford it?!


    The current model depends on there being 2 earners. It's one of the greatest, most subtle wealth transfers in modern history.

    It used to be that a single earner could finance a house and a wife raising the kids at home. Now you have to have two people earning to even get going.

    Then of course, the kids start coming. No problem: private run industrial childcare to solve that problem (we'll leave aside the psychological impact on the kids)

    Except it only works for one kid, after which the cost of childcare begins to absorb the wage of the 2nd earner.

    Progress!

    The fact is that people can't afford it. At least, a lot of them, who might have been able to afford it if they were born a generation or two ago, can't afford it. But that's not a problem: there aren't enough houses to go around even if they could afford it. So let the well-est off get the houses and let the rest sit in a rental poverty trap.


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    #93
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    Touchee wrote: »
    Right, as expected, not that many, chance of buying a new build for €280k is slim to none.

    Unless if by Dublin you mean Portlaoise or something like that.

    So we agree there are new builds for sale in Dublin at 280k.

    The houses are there for sale, why do you think the chance is slim to none?

    Daft is show 554 properties under 300k for sale in Dublin. Crises, what crises?


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    #94
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    ted1 wrote: »
    Earning 72k and living in a place like finglad. Is t exactly a life goal. Sure your neighbour on
    RSA/HAP
    JSA
    Single parents
    Back to school allowance
    Medical cards
    Buggy allowance
    Home heating allowance
    Christmas bonus
    Free upgrading of windows to double glazing etc
    Will be laughing at you as you head off for your days work.

    So it is not a problem of not being able to afford a house in Dublin (as there are plenty for sale) it is a problem of expectations?

    Not that it is wrong for someone to have expectations of where in Dublin they can buy a house, but does it make it a crises when someone can afford to buy a house in Dublin just not in the area they would like to?


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    #95
    skippy123!
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭skippy123!


    Well I doubt that anyone would like to buy a house and get a free ticket of opportunity to get murdered. That is why you pay more for the house (location).


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    #96
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    metricspaces wrote: »
    ted1 wrote: »
    Earning 72k and living in a place like finglad. Is t exactly a life goal. Sure your neighbour on
    RSA/HAP
    JSA
    Single parents
    Back to school allowance
    Medical cards
    Buggy allowance
    Home heating allowance
    Christmas bonus
    Free upgrading of windows to double glazing etc
    Will be laughing at you as you head off for your days work.

    So it is not a problem of not being able to afford a house in Dublin (as there are plenty for sale) it is a problem of expectations?

    Not that it is wrong for someone to have expectations of where in Dublin they can buy a house, but does it make it a crises when someone can afford to buy a house in Dublin just not in the area they would like to?

    Why pick any expectation (if expectations are out of bounds).


    Expecting a low crime area (when high crime areas are a dime a dozen) might be a mean a move to the sticks rather than being 'in Dublin'

    Ought a person expect the equivalent of their parents in Dublin when their (combined) salary trebles that of their parents?

    If not then why not (the answer involving someone somwhere getting rich off the current generatìns back / incompetence on the part of those paid to sort such things


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    #97
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    skippy123! wrote: »
    Well I doubt that anyone would like to buy a house and get a free ticket of opportunity to get murdered. That is why you pay more for the house (location).

    Bit over dramatic? There are plenty of new build houses in Dublin for under 300k (not to mention 2nd hand market) and buyers have not been murdered.

    Yes you pay more for a house based on its location. But how is that relevant to the discussion?

    The argument being made is that there are no affordable houses in Ireland. Daft shows plenty.


  • Options
    #98
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    Houses for sale are slowly but steadily coming to the market. Not in huge numbers but it's not that bad as it was 2 years ago. That's if you want to buy.
    The rental market is a disaster thought. There's nearly nothing to rent, each opportunity still attracts tons of viewers and the rents are horrendous. You can buy a property in a "less desirable" location today with an expectation of over 10% ROI on rental, which is not normal. Renters pay this because they have no choice.


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    #99
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    chuchuchu wrote: »
    I was thinking of how expensive it is to buy a house/apt in Dublin. When you factor in that a morgage can be only 3.5 times a persons salary and the average salary is 45000. Then for example a 3 bed house should cost about 200000 including the deposit. But I dont understand how the house prices are like double that price, I mean who could aford it?!

    Then I read stories of foreign investment companies buying up the housing stock and apartment blocks here, which is very discouraging and inflates the prices. Wouldnt it be best for the goverment to pass legislation to ban sales to non Irish residents? As what was done in recently in New Zealand, at least until the housing crisis has past and until they are enough houses been built to keep the prices in check.


    What you are asking for is Brexit.

    Hey folks - I like having a job. I like having all the benefits of an open economy, low corporation taxes and EU membership such that jobs are flooding in.

    But this part of it, that doesnt suit me - well I want to get rid of that.

    It doesnt work that way. Its like saying, I want to play a game of soccer - but my team can throw the ball into the net and your team cant......NO.......that doesnt happen.

    Sure we can ban foreigners from buying houses.

    But to be able to do that - we have to be outside the EU.

    In which case - we will be back in the 1950s, where you'll either be working as a farm labourer or a brickie.

    Or else you'll be on the boat to Britain. And hoping that you might make a life for yourself over there.

    And if you're lucky maybe even buy a house there, if you're allowed.


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    #100
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,652 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    The current model depends on there being 2 earners. It's one of the greatest, most subtle wealth transfers in modern history.

    It used to be that a single earner could finance a house and a wife raising the kids at home. Now you have to have two people earning to even get going.

    .

    Yes, and it used to be that unemployment was 25% and 50'000 people emigrated every year.

    A single earner could buy a house....if they earned enough. If they had a job.


  • Options
    #101
    skippy123!
    Registered Users Posts: 60 ✭✭skippy123!


    metricspaces wrote: »
    Bit over dramatic? There are plenty of new build houses in Dublin for under 300k (not to mention 2nd hand market) and buyers have not been murdered.

    Yes you pay more for a house based on its location. But how is that relevant to the discussion?

    The argument being made is that there are no affordable houses in Ireland. Daft shows plenty.

    That is the only point I have been making... Location will mostly determine why something costs more then some other area. In the end of the day - houses that are being sold in Dublin that are below 300k can be found but a big question is where and under what conditions. Most of them that I have seen are F grade (not only energy efficiency grade).


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    #102
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Its good for the debt of the economy that foreign investors are buying. When the next down turn comes the risks wont all be internal


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    #103
    pablo128
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭pablo128


    handlemaster wrote: »
    Its good for the debt of the economy that foreign investors are buying. When the next down turn comes the risks wont all be internal

    That is a very good point.


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    #104
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    skippy123! wrote: »
    That is the only point I have been making... .

    You made a ridiculous point about being murdered if you buy a house for under 300k in Dublin. A point which you didn't back up when called out on it.
    skippy123! wrote: »
    houses that are being sold in Dublin that are below 300k can be found but a big question is where and under what conditions. Most of them that I have seen are F grade (not only energy efficiency grade).

    There is no big question about where they are, they are clearly visible on daft.ie. As I mentioned previously there are new builds under 300k in Dublin, which will all have an A rated BER.


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    #105
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    ted1 wrote: »
    It costs about 250k in labour and parts to build a 3 bed.

    That’s with out land. If land was cheap I’d have a massive garden.

    It’s not the foreigners fault.

    Is it really that expensive. I have a semi-d 1500 sq ft, 3 bed and paid 110k, 26 months ago


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    #106
    baldbear
    Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭baldbear


    I have a Chinese friend & apparently lots of well off Chinese are buying houses in Dublin. They invest 1 million here and get visas for themselves & their families.

    He has viewed houses for some and used facetime or whatever equivalent to show them the houses. Castleknock is an area he bidded for them. Good schools are a priority for them. Locals won't have a chance against them bidding.


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    #107
    metricspaces
    Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭metricspaces


    baldbear wrote: »
    lots of well off Chinese are buying houses in Dublin.

    How many is lots? Is there any source for these figures that you can share?
    baldbear wrote: »
    They invest 1 million here and get visas for themselves & their families.

    Are you saying a Chinese person living in China buys a house in Ireland and simply by doing this alone they and all their family get a visa from the Irish government?


  • Options
    #108
    Third_Echelon
    Registered Users Posts: 4,889 ✭✭✭Third_Echelon


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    Too late, most of the finance here is chinese now, there are chinese property tours going on in dublin every week, there are development companies recruiting mandarin speakers to deal with chinese investors. This is already in here and its completely fuelled a lot of the price rises. They don't seem to be leaving them empty at the moment but theres a lot of REIT's and professional landlords who are a company wholly owned by chinese investors.
    Yurt! wrote: »
    Not doubting what you say, but this area could do with a bit of research.

    Australia, NZ and Parts of Canada learned the hard way about the effects of speculative Chinese investment in their respective markets.

    Vancouver is a case study in what it can do to a localised market once CN money gets a taste for the goods.
    baldbear wrote: »
    I have a Chinese friend & apparently lots of well off Chinese are buying houses in Dublin. They invest 1 million here and get visas for themselves & their families.

    He has viewed houses for some and used facetime or whatever equivalent to show them the houses. Castleknock is an area he bidded for them. Good schools are a priority for them. Locals won't have a chance against them bidding.
    metricspaces wrote: »
    How many is lots? Is there any source for these figures that you can share?



    Are you saying a Chinese person living in China buys a house in Ireland and simply by doing this alone they and all their family get a visa from the Irish government?

    I'm currently living in the San Francisco area for the past 3 or 4 years, saving and looking to come home to Ireland in the next few years to buy. Hopefully should have a good deposit coming home. Couldn't even remotely afford to buy property here, even if we wanted to.

    The Chinese have come here and bought up, not just houses, but apartments and apartment buildings. They use their kids going to college here (mostly Stanford) as a platform for buying property so they can live in them and it goes from there.

    As mentioned by someone previously, investing a certain amount can get you permanent residency in many countries and I'm sure Ireland is no different. There is a lot of cash floating around China and they are buying up in a lot of expensive cities. SF and Vancouver have been seeing the effects of this in recent times. They just outbid every time and the price flies up. So much so (along with other factors), that a 3 bed townhouse style home is nearly $2 million! Madness!


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    #109
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    metricspaces wrote: »
    How many is lots? Is there any source for these figures that you can share?



    Are you saying a Chinese person living in China buys a house in Ireland and simply by doing this alone they and all their family get a visa from the Irish government?

    Yes, when the scheme was launched, Shatter made it clear that it was for clearing the NAMA property portfolio.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/pr12000003


  • Options
    #110
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,792 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Yes, when the scheme was launched, Shatter made it clear that it was for clearing the NAMA property portfolio.

    http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/inis/pages/pr12000003

    Looking at the scheme as it stands today, this is just not true. You could invest in a REIT or social housing but you can’t buy a house to live in and call it your million euro investment in Ireland.


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    #111
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,073 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I would have thought if there were rich Chinese buying houses, then we would have seen significant price rises in the 800k+ segment in the last couple of years, and from what I've seen that is not the case (although I've stopped tracking prices in a systematic way in the last 18 months).

    The price compression in the 300-700k segment can be explained by conventional mortgage-financed domestic demand.


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