Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)

NITRO95

NITRO95 wrote: »

Can't recommend highly enough the WON 1993 & 1997 Yearbooks. The variety of subjects covered in them and the detail in which every story is covered is staggering

Have the two of them through Kindle unlimited on Amazon. Looking forward to reading them after the Nitro book.

The White Wolf

Can anyone explain Danhausen's gimmick to me? Haven't followed him but trying to find a short video that will explain it but can't find anything.

Itssoeasy

Tomorrow seventeen years ago wrestle mania XX from MSG took place and it all began again apparently. I remember I was nearly caught out recording and watching this show because it was a special start time of midnight not 1am.

This event had had some of the shine taken off it because of events subsequent to it happening but it’s still a good event that I’ve fond memories of.

We had cena winning the US title against show to open the matches which had had the boys choir of Harlem do a great rendition of the anthem.

We had rock coming back to team with mick foley against evolution which included the rock cutting a promo in the back and calling rosey and the hurricane the hamburglar and grimace.

We had the ultimo dragon slip aka the cruiser weight open.

We had molly holly and Victoria for the women’s title.

We had Eddie and angle in a very good title match with a clever finish.

We had taker returning from the dead or Houston as it’s otherwise called facing Kane in a rematch of their WM 14 match.

We had two multi team tag title matches which was the style at the time at mania with the tag belts.

We had the triple threat main event which was a good match but isn’t remembered by wwe for obvious reasons.

So yeah 17 years ago tomorrow.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Tomorrow seventeen years ago wrestle mania XX from MSG took place and it all began again apparently. I remember I was nearly caught out recording and watching this show because it was a special start time of midnight not 1am.

This event had had some of the shine taken off it because of events subsequent to it happening but it’s still a good event that I’ve fond memories of.

We had cena winning the US title against show to open the matches which had had the boys choir of Harlem do a great rendition of the anthem.

We had rock coming back to team with mick foley against evolution which included the rock cutting a promo in the back and calling rosey and the hurricane the hamburglar and grimace.

We had the ultimo dragon slip aka the cruiser weight open.

We had molly holly and Victoria for the women’s title.

We had Eddie and angle in a very good title match with a clever finish.

We had taker returning from the dead or Houston as it’s otherwise called facing Kane in a rematch of their WM 14 match.

We had two multi team tag title matches which was the style at the time at mania with the tag belts.

We had the triple threat main event which was a good match but isn’t remembered by wwe for obvious reasons.

So yeah 17 years ago tomorrow.

I just remember being so disappointed with the "deadman" return. Wearing his exact same ABA attire but with a new hat! Like the Simpsons episode with the doll with a new hat :pac: I definitely didn't think it lived up to the hype for the 20th WM. I always thought we should have got the Cactus Orton match here.

Itssoeasy

Deleted User wrote: »

I just remember being so disappointed with the "deadman" return. Wearing his exact same ABA attire but with a new hat! Like the Simpsons episode with the doll with a new hat :pac: I definitely didn't think it lived up to the hype for the 20th WM. I always thought we should have got the Cactus Orton match here.

Well it was hybrid taker and he had the music back and that whole thing. Well we got cactus vs orton the next month and like he’d done from HHH over four years before he made a star out of orton because that match was brilliant. I think MSG helped in the presentation and feeling of the event.

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Well it was hybrid taker and he had the music back and that whole thing. Well we got cactus vs orton the next month and like he’d done from HHH over four years before he made a star out of orton because that match was brilliant. I think MSG helped in the presentation and feeling of the event.

Oh no doubt Orton Foley at backlash was great. Just would have preferred it at the garden. Thought the 6 man was just a way to have The Rock back for match.

TimesArrow

Becky Lynch’s music playing at half time in the north London derby

J. Marston

TimesArrow wrote: »

Becky Lynch’s music playing at half time in the north London derby

The Arsenal DJ is a wrestling fan. There's always a wrestling theme blaring at The Emirates when they come out for the second half. My Time, RVD, Edge and Angle's are a few others I can recall.

Lithium93_

Motorhead's The Game also got an airing.

Insect Overlord

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Motorhead's The Game also got an airing.

I think they beat Liverpool that night!

PTH2009

The most awkward match i ever saw was the Vince Mcmahon vs Stephanie Mcmahon match at No Mercy 2003

It was so uneasy and a really wtf were they thinking

NITRO95

PTH2009 wrote: »

The most awkward match i ever saw was the Vince Mcmahon vs Stephanie Mcmahon match at No Mercy 2003

It was so uneasy and a really wtf were they thinking

Vince rewatches that match every week

Itssoeasy

PTH2009 wrote: »

The most awkward match i ever saw was the Vince Mcmahon vs Stephanie Mcmahon match at No Mercy 2003

It was so uneasy and a really wtf were they thinking

They needed a storyline reason to get her off TV to get married. But in hindsight they could have found another way.

Didn't Vince want to do a storyline where him or Shane was the father of Stephanie's baby? Weird guy

NITRO95

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Didn't Vince want to do a storyline where him or Shane was the father of Stephanie's baby? Weird guy

Yep his first pitch was that he would be the father of the baby. When Stephanie turned that down he asked what about Shane.

It's mentioned on the McMahon doc that's unbelievably not on The Network......hmmmm I wonder why its not on there

This is the man that also booked Katie Lea and Paul Burchill as incestuous siblings

Itssoeasy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Didn't Vince want to do a storyline where him or Shane was the father of Stephanie's baby? Weird guy

I believe he did yeah.

I remember I had that McMahon DVD and couldn't believe that they were admitting on camera that this was a storyline Vince was suggesting!

PTH2009

Vince also directed this segment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWce9O8VEnY

PTH2009

PTH2009 wrote: »

Vince also directed this segment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWce9O8VEnY

And Bischoff kissing Stephanie!

Lithium93_

Jesus, Vince was a creepy bastard.

Sirsok

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Didn't Vince want to do a storyline where him or Shane was the father of Stephanie's baby? Weird guy

Wasn't he sexually abused himself as a child by his mother? That's surely gonna mess you up in life

Sirsok

With all the crap Johnny Ace gets and the fact that he has been brought back , when you think about it he was quite successful no?

Sheamus, Drew , Kofi, Del Rio, Bryan all went onto become World Champions.

It was in an era post Austin and Rock.

Sure they rely heavily on nostaglia now which can be used as a point against his talent development however he did hire some good hands that went onto become quite successful

NITRO95

Sirsok wrote: »

With all the crap Johnny Ace gets and the fact that he has been brought back , when you think about it he was quite successful no?

Sheamus, Drew , Kofi, Del Rio, Bryan all went onto become World Champions.

One of those guys can be considered a success that crossed over in mainstream appeal and helped the company grow and it was in spite of the company everything it could to keep him from being successful.

Sheamus has been a solid roster member. Had some great matches but he's also been one of the top guys as the company's business has sank lower and lower and lower.

Kofi was an accidental success that lasted less than 2 months. Once he won the title nobody gave a solitary **** about him. Incidentally his opponent was the one guy that could be considered a success that might just be the greatest wrestler of all time.

Del Rio is scum and nothing he's ever done should be considered a success

Drew. Yea he's good in the ring sometimes and he has one good promo but I mean record low ratings have to be held against him. Does anyone care about him?

Johnny is a leech and a yes man. He's good for finding models and doing whatever Vince asks of him.

All that said nothing that WWE does actually matters anymore. They are a TV show about a wrestling TV show that for some reason only hires wrestlers as actors. WWE ceased to be a wrestling company a couple of years ago. Being invested in anything they do is foolish and leaves you at the whims of a senile, potentially blind pensioner.

Sirsok

Saying their business has sank lower and lower when they have posted record high profits is a tad bit silly to be fair.

I'm not saying his tenure was in the same calibre as Jim Ross, just he did have some success in his time, and the fact he is being brought back may not be all doom and gloom.

I agree Del Rio is scum, but at the time was a valuable hand.

Considering their business model, having solid hands is fairly valuable. Beth Phoenix was someone brought in under his regime, and she went into be a hall of fame.

In terms of WWE bring a TV show, I remember Fighting Spirit magazine posing a question about WWE creating a character and having guys audition for it as opposed to shoehorning guys into the role. I found that an interesting concept.

Say Vince had an idea for a character, maybe Fandango, that character could of been a chance for a developmental guy to throw their name in the hat instead of forcing it on the eventual Fandango.

Not saying its right but was interesting none the less.

LineOfBeauty

NITRO95 wrote: »

One of those guys can be considered a success that crossed over in mainstream appeal and helped the company grow and it was in spite of the company everything it could to keep him from being successful.

Sheamus has been a solid roster member. Had some great matches but he's also been one of the top guys as the company's business has sank lower and lower and lower.

Kofi was an accidental success that lasted less than 2 months. Once he won the title nobody gave a solitary **** about him. Incidentally his opponent was the one guy that could be considered a success that might just be the greatest wrestler of all time.

Del Rio is scum and nothing he's ever done should be considered a success

Drew. Yea he's good in the ring sometimes and he has one good promo but I mean record low ratings have to be held against him. Does anyone care about him?

Johnny is a leech and a yes man. He's good for finding models and doing whatever Vince asks of him.

All that said nothing that WWE does actually matters anymore. They are a TV show about a wrestling TV show that for some reason only hires wrestlers as actors. WWE ceased to be a wrestling company a couple of years ago. Being invested in anything they do is foolish and leaves you at the whims of a senile, potentially blind pensioner.

Imo the moment they no longer had to sell ppvs, pop ratings or sell a single ticket to a show to have their most profitable year is when they stopped being a wrestling company. It's a content factory. I always keep that in mind now when watching their product or discussing it. Applying booking logic, or regular wrestling star making logic, to WWE no longer works because it's not a wrestling company in the sense that, a wrestling company traditionally relied on live attendance to survive, it had to build interesting stories to peak at ppv. It had to do strong numbers in ratings to get a TV deal and stay on TV. WWE literally don't have to do any of that.

And nobody on their roster moves ratings for them, up of down in a hugely significant way. They basically do the same ratings each week, with a very slow decline. You could literally get rid of any wrestler on the roster and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to their viewership or live attendance or any numbers really.

It's why I've had to stop talking about who is or isn't a star in WWE because honestly nobody is, and yet there's loads of people who, if they left WWE tomorrow, would be stars elsewhere. It's incredibly strange.

NITRO95

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Imo the moment they no longer had to sell ppvs, pop ratings or sell a single ticket to a show to have their most profitable year is when they stopped being a wrestling company. It's a content factory. I always keep that in mind now when watching their product or discussing it. Applying booking logic, or regular wrestling star making logic, to WWE no longer works because it's not a wrestling company in the sense that, a wrestling company traditionally relied on live attendance to survive, it had to build interesting stories to peak at ppv. It had to do strong numbers in ratings to get a TV deal and stay on TV. WWE literally don't have to do any of that.

And nobody on their roster moves ratings for them, up of down in a hugely significant way. They basically do the same ratings each week, with a very slow decline. You could literally get rid of any wrestler on the roster and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to their viewership or live attendance or any numbers really.

It's why I've had to stop talking about who is or isn't a star in WWE because honestly nobody is, and yet there's loads of people who, if they left WWE tomorrow, would be stars elsewhere. It's incredibly strange.

It's all comes down to every little thing in the company is geared towards an audience of one. If he doesn't get it, doesn't like it, thinks the person is too fat, too skinny, is too short, isn't good looking etc. it/they won't get a real chance

LineOfBeauty

NITRO95 wrote: »

It's all comes down to every little thing in the company is geared towards an audience of one. If he doesn't get it, doesn't like it, thinks the person is too fat, too skinny, is too short, isn't good looking etc. it/they won't get a real chance

True and ultimately the position they're in, they can book for an audience of one and it doesn't impact the bottom line at all. It's why WWE booking debate is the most tedious debate there is in pro wrestling discourse, because whether the booking is great or awful it doesn't have any consequences in a financial sense.

And on Vince, it's a subject I'm not going to touch with a barge pole. Obviously you've heard/read the same things I have about him, but to bring it up now before anyone talks about it would just be unnecessary hassle.

Itssoeasy

Sirsok wrote: »

Wasn't he sexually abused himself as a child by his mother? That's surely gonna mess you up in life

I assumed it was his stepfather but maybe it was both. He said in an interview years ago that he was upset that his step father had died before he’d gotten a chance to kill him or words to that effect. It’s funny that Vince isn’t a fan of the south yet he was born there.

Agent Coulson

It was easy for Johnny Ace and the WWE to get talent for the last 15/20 years since they were the only game in town.

Just look what they did in the UK they killed the independent scene there when World of Sport announced it was getting a TV deal just to stop a small time rival on another continent.

Even since AEW arrived they have done there best to hoover up as much talent as they can to stop them from succeeding.


Easy to have a bit of a hit rate when you do that and to be honest it is a bit of a disgrace he and the WWE didn't make more stars being the only show in town and having worldwide TV every week.

B.A._Baracus

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

... You could literally get rid of any wrestler on the roster and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to their viewership or live attendance or any numbers really.

It's why I've had to stop talking about who is or isn't a star in WWE because honestly nobody is, and yet there's loads of people who, if they left WWE tomorrow, would be stars elsewhere. It's incredibly strange.

I have recently realised that WWE is the star. Not the wrestlers. They push the brand.
It's no secret that during the WWF expansion in the 80s Vince would make his classic WWF logo bigger and bigger as time went by on wrestling posters while making headline names smaller and smaller.

Seems ol' Vinny has taken that to a new level by having no one wrestler be bigger than anyone else.