Random Wrestling Thoughts (Part 2)

J. Marston

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Unless you've some hidden stories that you're gonna reveal here about actual attempted attacks on AEW kids by paedophiles could you you please not quote me with "whatabboutery"

And again, it's nothing but a thought that popped into my head off the back of seeing some reaction to the pin last night. And likely nothing will happen and hopefully nothing does happen. But if you think WWE haven't been presenting Bliss in a certain way to appeal to a certain kind of "fan" then your head is in the sand or you aren't watching. And personally my thoughts would be, coming so soon after the Deville stuff, I'd do everything I could to not appeal to that kind of fanbase because those people are scary as hell and instead WWE lean into it. It's not something I'd do.

I can't imagine that's a big lucrative viewership but you're the man with the charts and demographics, you tell me.

It's shít "horror" with Bliss being "friendly creepy" to contrast to The Fiend's......whatever it is. None of it lands. It's not nonce/predator bait.

LineOfBeauty

J. Marston wrote: »

I can't imagine that's a big lucrative viewership but you're the man with the charts and demographics, you tell me.

It's shít "horror" with Bliss being "friendly creepy" to contrast to The Fiend's......whatever it is. None of it lands. It's not nonce/predator bait.

I doubt it is a huge viewership market, at least I hope it isn't, but it's a feud and a portrayal of a character that is right up that particular base's alley.

I'd argue she's clearly presented as a child like figure throughout and it's not subtle. Nobody is saying "WWE going for the nonce audience" but presenting a character in that way in a story with sexual overtones is always going to bring it's own baggage with it.

LineOfBeauty

riffmongous wrote: »

What's merch table culture?

Really came to the fore in the early 2010's, it's wrestlers hanging out at the merch table, fans chatting to them thinking that the wrestler's are their friends because "hey, I've chatted to X, we're buds" usually they're just oblivious to the wrestler's goals of trying to sell them merch but, as we saw in Speaking Out, there were times where the end result was far worse than a fan handing over 20 dollars for a shirt. There's an online aspect to it too that's proved troubling.

You see it at every indie show you go to. It was one of those things I think we could all see was going to cause problems.

Agent Coulson

What's is to stop a wrestler Andrade turning up on AEW this week even with a 90 day none compete clause what can the WWE actually do to him, Brock took them to court and won when they threatened him over a no compete for other wrestling companies.

Do the WWE really want to end up in a court room where the independent contractor contract could actually be challenged in open court.


Or do they withhold final payments till the 90 days are up which I would hazard a guess is illegal.

CastorTroy

Are wrestling venues the last places in America to still use trash cans?

Sirsok

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Throwing this out there.

WWE are playing with fire with the Alexa stuff. As it is, WWE's female roster inherits basically the worst type of fan (stan) you can possibly imagine basically the moment they hit main roster screens. The portrayal of Bliss as a child has been dodge enough, the sexualised nature of it even more dodge and then they did thar pin last night. You just need to go look in Alexa's Twitter replies to see what we're dealing with here. In recent times the stuff that the female roster have had to deal with from that section of the audience could've been even worse than it worse (which was bad) but with the current Bliss stuff I honestly think they're walking on real dangerous ground.

The most sexually charged stuff I've witnessed the last while has been your comments about Andrade to be fair.

LineOfBeauty

Sirsok wrote: »

The most sexually charged stuff I've witnessed the last while has been your comments about Andrade to be fair.

Andrade is absolutely gorgeous of that there is no doubt. Though I've not got a weird stan account dedicated to him. Unless that's what my Board account becomes.

LineOfBeauty

While I'm turning this into a stan account, stick me down for Akira Tozawa too. Topical because of the picture that went people are talking about coming out of Raw last night of the "geek" locker room. I'd give a limb to get Tozawa out of WWE and actually back to pro wrestling again. God damn imagine that guy working with the current Dragon Gate roster.

RollieFingers

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

While I'm turning this into a stan account, stick me down for Akira Tozawa too. Topical because of the picture that went people are talking about coming out of Raw last night of the "geek" locker room. I'd give a limb to get Tozawa out of WWE and actually back to pro wrestling again. God damn imagine that guy working with the current Dragon Gate roster.

Man Tozawa against Ishida or SBK would be sick. Get him off the entertainment show and back to pro-wrestling.

LineOfBeauty

RollieFingers wrote: »

Man Tozawa against Ishida or SBK would be sick. Get him off the entertainment show and back to pro-wrestling.

I'm not wishing unemployment on anyone but man if I could pick one guy from the 80,000 wrestlers they have signed to get out of that company it would be Tozawa, he's got like a million fresh match ups available and they're all great.

Lithium93_

Something I've wondered while watching Stone Cold Steve Austin & Randy Orton shooting the breeze.

Why can't Randy be that as loose and charismatic on TV. Man has charisma to burn.

Itssoeasy

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Something I've wondered while watching Stone Cold Steve Austin & Randy Orton shooting the breeze.

Why can't Randy be that as loose and charismatic on TV. Man has charisma to burn.

I was the same as I think he came across very well in the interview. I mean you only have watch upupdowndown and see that many of the wwe superstars of today are very charismatic off tv but aren’t given the chance to translate that to TV.

He can’t be that loose because as we know everything is scripted to within an inch of its life including promos. I’ve always like Randy orton because I think he’s just that good in the ring.

OSW review have the Ronda Rousey/Bully Ray Jocks watch. Have a look at QT Marshall in AEW! He'll beat the both of them, **** me.

Lithium93_

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I was the same as I think he came across very well in the interview. I mean you only have watch upupdowndown and see that many of the wwe superstars of today are very charismatic off tv but aren’t given the chance to translate that to TV.

He can’t be that loose because as we know everything is scripted to within an inch of its life including promos. I’ve always like Randy orton because I think he’s just that good in the ring.

He comes across really well, he's actually given me reason to reappraise my opinion of him. Definitely worthy of headlining his own Hall Of Fame class, whenever that day comes.

UpUpDownDown also a good example of talent just being allowed to be themselves.

It really is a shame that the company are so insistent on strangling any talent's personality with the everything scripted to within an inch of death routine.

savemejebus

Anyone else noticed that Kenny Omega is modelling his look after Adam Sandler in 'That's my boy'

Itssoeasy

Twenty years ago tomorrow the last Monday nitro was broadcast.

Loughc

The upcoming mania card is prob the worst it’s been since Mania 27 if not ever. But man I cannot wait to see mania with fans again.

A starved mania crowd just be fired up. The wwe product is badly missing fans.

J. Marston

The fans could make it a great event even if the card is dirt. Will be so odd to see 20k+ for a wrestling event again.

Necro

Loughc wrote: »

The upcoming mania card is prob the worst it’s been since Mania 27 if not ever. But man I cannot wait to see mania with fans again.

A starved mania crowd just be fired up. The wwe product is badly missing fans.

I think I'm just hyped to see fans back alright - I've gone and taken a whole week off work too

Itssoeasy

Loughc wrote: »

The upcoming mania card is prob the worst it’s been since Mania 27 if not ever. But man I cannot wait to see mania with fans again.

A starved mania crowd just be fired up. The wwe product is badly missing fans.

The crowd will pop on a stiff lock up it’s been so long and I hope the wrestlers feed off what even a not full stadium will be full enough and it certainly helped the super bowl to have fans there.

With Impact moving back to Thursdays there will be wrestling on 7 days a week. It'll be so much better when fans are back though (like discussed above)


Monday:
WWE Raw
AEW Elevation

Tuesday:
WWE NXT
AEW Dark
NWA Power

Wednesday:
AEW Dynamite

Thursday:
Impact Wrestling
WWE NXT UK

Friday:
WWE Smackdown
NJPW

Saturday:
MLW Fusion

Sunday:
Ring Of Honor

J. Marston

WWE did a top 50 of the top women in WWE history. Top 10 is...

10. Bayley

9. Ronda

8. Lita

7. Alundra Blayze

6. Sasha

5. Asuka

4. Chyna

3. Becky

2. Charlotte

1. Trish

I think most would swap Becky and Charlotte but otherwise, fair enough.

The Nal

J. Marston wrote: »

I think most would swap Becky and Charlotte but otherwise, fair enough.

I wouldn't. Id swap Trish and Charlotte. Chyna near the top of the list too.

Charlotte and Chyna are head and shoulders the best female wrestlers ever. Becky is a bit cringe.

beakerjoe

J. Marston wrote: »

WWE did a top 50 of the top women in WWE history. Top 10 is...

10. Bayley

9. Ronda

8. Lita

7. Alundra Blayze

6. Sasha

5. Asuka

4. Chyna

3. Becky

2. Charlotte

1. Trish

I think most would swap Becky and Charlotte but otherwise, fair enough.

Ronda brought the womens division up several notches, she should be higher than the like of Banks and Asuka. There would be no Mania main event without her.

I like both Asuka and Banks, but they havent been booked like stars.

LineOfBeauty

These lists are never not dodge.

If you're ranking it in terms of drawing power then Ronda Rousey is unquestionably number 1.

If you're doing it based purely on bell to bell wrestling then number 1 is Sasha Banks.

If you're doing it on legacy it's probably Becky Lynch.

If you're doing a combination of all 3 things it's most likely Sasha.

But they romanticize the Trish run and the "best WWE women's wrestler" legacy is basically part of her gimmick these days.

bmorrissey

The Nal wrote: »

I wouldn't. Id swap Trish and Charlotte. Chyna near the top of the list too.

Charlotte and Chyna are head and shoulders the best female wrestlers ever. Becky is a bit cringe.

My thoughts exactly, not that i dont like Trish or Becky but i would have Charlotte, Chyna and Asuka higher up. Would also have Kaitlyn in my top 10, for the brief period ive seen her in WWE, she was brilliant i thought

beakerjoe

The Nal wrote: »

I wouldn't. Id swap Trish and Charlotte. Chyna near the top of the list too.

Charlotte and Chyna are head and shoulders the best female wrestlers ever. Becky is a bit cringe.

Chyna was a terrible wrestler. She broke barriers and was no doubt booked better than any woman before her, but she was average at best.

Sirsok

Paige not cracking the top 10 is surprising considering the division started to change upon her introduction

CastorTroy

At least they remembered Chyna.
Was AJ on the list?

Necro

CastorTroy wrote: »

At least they remembered Chyna.
Was AJ on the list?

Yeah top 20 I think... definitely on the list though

Necro

It's not a bad show in fairness, I quite enjoyed it with the way they looked back on all of their careers. Sunny even got a mention :pac:

Full List in the article here: https://itrwrestling.com/news/wwe-lists-top-50-greatest-women-superstars-50-6/

Or alternatively below...

Edit: actually maybe I won't spoil the whole thing

Lithium93_

Huh would've thought Stephanie would've been in the top 20 at least.

Necro

Lithium93_ wrote: »

Huh would've thought Stephanie would've been in the top 20 at least.

I'd have her top 10 personally, not sure who you would replace her with though it's a pretty daycent top 10 (arguments about the order aside)

Lithium93_

Necro wrote: »

I'd have her top 10 personally, not sure who you would replace her with though it's a pretty daycent top 10 (arguments about the order aside)

I'd personally swap her with Chyna.

beakerjoe

Lithium93_ wrote: »

I'd personally swap her with Chyna.

Much more of an influential character on screen since 99 until now. The McMahon Helmsley era, to her stint as face GM on Smackdown, to her match with Ronda at WM.

Id have her high on the list. Shes still a weapon in real life though

The White Wolf

beakerjoe wrote: »

Ronda brought the womens division up several notches, she should be higher than the like of Banks and Asuka. There would be no Mania main event without her.

I like both Asuka and Banks, but they havent been booked like stars.

Yeah in no way have they treated Asuka as being in the top 5 even though I feel she is. They gave Nikki fcuking Bella more of an aura as champion than Asuka.

beakerjoe

The White Wolf wrote: »

Yeah in no way have they treated Asuka as being in the top 5 even though I feel she is. They gave Nikki fcuking Bella more of an aura as champion than Asuka.

Asuka should be a top 5 talent at least, but ever since she lost to Charlotte a few years back she was criminally booked badly (no surprise there).

Bella was presented much better by WWE.

Make no mistake, Asuka is probably number 1 in terms of talent, but there are many more Id have ahead of her. Never felt like a main eventer unlike Charlotte, Becky or Ronda in recent times.

Shes just another name in botched use of talent. WWE used Asuka in a comparison to someone buying a remote control and using it as a paper weight. It works fine as a paper weight but you could get a hell of a lot more use out of it if you used it correctly.

ThePott

Lithium93_ wrote: »

I'd personally swap her with Chyna.

Ah yes the reverse Triple H

Sirsok

Probably the best booked rumble I have seen. Must of taken the dude days upon days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15l67O354Hs

CastorTroy

Strange they rank the Bellas as 1 person. Would be like ranking Edge & Christian in a single spot for the men.

Necro

CastorTroy wrote: »

Strange they rank the Bellas as 1 person. Would be like ranking Edge & Christian in a single spot for the men.

Tbh, Brie doesn't really deserve to be on the list imo. Nikki does mind.

Equally I'm wondering if they will do a top 50 male superstar list and what it would like beyond the top 15 or so....

Itssoeasy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Twenty years ago tomorrow the last Monday nitro was broadcast.

Today 20 years ago. Crazy

The worst thing that could have happened to wrestling was WCW (and to a lesser extent ECW) going out of business. WWE was never the same after Wrestlemania 17.

Just on WCW. A friend of mine in school used to tape Nitro for me. It was so stupid though that you had no access to WCW PPVs over here. The only way was to buy the VHS by Mail order a few months later (and I think that was UK only). They should have showed the PPVs on the same channel that showed Nitro in the UK/Ireland. WCW was so slack when it came to stuff like that.

Necro

Necro wrote: »

That's cos Edge is a bang average face and always was, he was always better as the manipulative heel. We've also had the "return" angle last year, in the feud with Orton.

There's no pop to this feud, no spark. Why would there be, neither guy has any history of animosity beyond Roman being the champ, nor have they tried to create any since the Rumble.

Here's what they should do, but won't.

Have Bryan BEAT Roman tomorrow night. It can be with Edge's assistance, doesn't have to be clean if they're obsessed with protecting the big dog (mind you, he's a heel and should be losing sometimes).

Bryan goes into Mania as Champ up against the Rumble winner Edge, with Reigns seemingly out of the picture.

Reigns demands his rematch and Bryan being a fighting champion gives it to him at Mania, we now have a triple threat match with Reigns super focused and determined to reclaim the gold along with the wildcard of Edge.

Already annoyed with Bryan trying (and succeeding) to jump the queue and getting to the main event of Mania, Edge snaps after Bryan gives Reigns what he wants as it decreases his chances. He beats the sh1t out of Bryan, possibly gives him a con-chair-to (but maybe not, might be too close to Mania for Bryan to sell that impact).

Boom you have deranged and obsessed Edge back as a heel alongside Reigns with both chasing a face champ in Bryan.

There's your Mania main event. And they can still do it.

But they won't, and we will get Edge VS Reigns and it will likely be grand, but sort of pointless and with no real pop or meaning to the feud.

Close enough... just erm... ignore the last bit :pac::pac:

Riddle101

I've never liked brand exclusive Championships. When you have to call a championship the Raw Women's Championship or the Smackdown Women's Championship it kind've makes them feel less like a championship for women and more like a championship for the brand. The same goes for the tag team championships.

They should have one called the women's championship, or rename the other title to a more suitable name like how you have the WWE Championship and the Universal Championship.

The Tag Team Championships should be unified because there is barely a tag team division, to begin with.

beakerjoe

Necro wrote: »

Close enough... just erm... ignore the last bit :pac::pac:

Im shocked the they didnt press ahead with Edge v Roman.

Allegedly Edge is getting heat for looking old, which he does. Hes got that Mark Hammill Rise of the Skywalker look.

Bryan is the injection this feud needed.

NITRO95

Late to the discussion but Sasha should have been #1 in that wwe women's list. I'm not even her biggest fan but she has far and away the best collection of matches, the TakeOver series with Bayley in 10 years time will be viewed as iconic and a real moment when the perception of women's wrestling in WWE changed.

#2 could have been Bayley had they not ****ed her introduction to the main roster so badly and then proceeded to not have a fcking clue on how to market her inspite of it being a fcking OPEN GOAL!

The company stinks and the list is just a microcosm of all that is wrong in WWE

LineOfBeauty

NITRO95 wrote: »

Late to the discussion but Sasha should have been #1 in that wwe women's list. I'm not even her biggest fan but she has far and away the best collection of matches, the TakeOver series with Bayley in 10 years time will be viewed as iconic and a real moment when the perception of women's wrestling in WWE changed.

#2 could have been Bayley had they not ****ed her introduction to the main roster so badly and then proceeded to not have a fcking clue on how to market her inspite of it being a fcking OPEN GOAL!

The company stinks and the list is just a microcosm of all that is wrong in WWE

I swear there's a collection of wrestlers in WWE who were open goal face stars that they've completely whiffed on and now they're heels.

J. Marston

It's not on WWE for Bayley flopping as a face on the main roster. She basically had stage fright for the longest time. Her character worked in the weird little box that is Full Sail but big arenas and crowds weren't her friends. Canada especially hates her for some reason (although they'll probably like her now she's heel). Emma was something similar in NXT, a quirky character who people thought would work on the main roster but her weird awkward dancing just got silence instead.

There was loads of instances of flubbed promos. The infamous Raw Talk segment with Booker T (which was just bad form on his part, in my opinion) and even her first heel promo she nervously tripped over lines. Bayley said it herself, no crowds have been the making of her...

"It's helped me a lot because I don't really have to worry about the fan's approval or worry about fans believing in what I'm doing or not buying into what I'm saying in promos or anything like that," said Bayley. "I've found a certain annoyance in my character. I think that I can be very loud and it basically just echoes in the Performance Center because there's nobody there and I just think it's hilarious. So for me, I think it's benefited helping me find myself as this character."

J. Marston

The top 50 most-searched wrestling personalities (WWE and AEW) worldwide last week...

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1375895908831887365

- The top three aren't even there for wrestling-related reasons.

- Only two active wrestlers in the top 10.

- Seven in the top 20.

- Omega doesn't even crack the top 50.

- He said he forgot Paige and The Bellas who probably would've been high.

Itssoeasy

J. Marston wrote: »

The top 50 most-searched wrestling personalities (WWE and AEW) worldwide last week...

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1375895908831887365

- The top three aren't even there for wrestling-related reasons.

- Only two active wrestlers in the top 10.

- Seven in the top 20.

- Omega doesn't even crack the top 50.

- He said he forgot Paige and The Bellas who probably would've been high.

Meltzer will probably block him for that.