Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

Phoebas

* Highly volatile. (check)
* Based on thin air (check)
* Can facilitate criminal behaviour (check)

Trump doesn't often make much sense, but I can't see anything particularly wrong in that tweet.

makeorbrake

Phoebas wrote: »

* Highly volatile. (check)
* Based on thin air (check)
* Can facilitate criminal behaviour (check)

Trump doesn't often make much sense, but I can't see anything particularly wrong in that tweet.

These are checks on the Donald right? You've a typo in the 2nd one...should read 'hot air'. Other than that, top marks.

makeorbrake

This didn't take long at all!


https://twitter.com/i/status/1149503314435833858


Meanwhile, the Chairman of the Fed states that Bitcoin is just like gold.

Phoebas

makeorbrake wrote: »

Meanwhile, the Chairman of the Fed states that Bitcoin is just like gold.

Not exactly.
He said that that is how bitcoin owners are treating it. He's certainly not commending it as an alternative to gold.

Almost no one uses bitcoin for payments, they use it more as an alternative to gold,” he said Thursday afternoon. “It’s a speculative store of value.”

makeorbrake

Phoebas wrote: »

Not exactly.
He said that that is how bitcoin owners are treating it.

Eh, no.


Mr. Crapo is the Banking Committee chairman (I guess he was asking about a ****coin in Libra so that's fitting). He asked if Libra or crypto generally could threaten the reserve currency status of the U.S.D. - Powell confirmed that potentially it could.

Yes, he went on to say that people use it as a store of value but he followed that up by confirming to Mr. Crapo that "it's a store of value, it's a speculative store of value - like gold". That is what he told him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8M_FZwVar4

Phoebas

Eh, yes.

Of course it is a store of value for those that hold it, but it's a particularly bad store of value given its extreme volitility.

The idea that the Fed would commend it as a store of value isn't realistic - you have to read what was said with a large dollop of confirmation bias to come away with that conclusion.

makeorbrake

Phoebas wrote: »

The idea that the Fed would commend it as a store of value isn't realistic - you have to read what was said with a large dollop of confirmation bias to come away with that conclusion.

bias runs in both directions, dude. Been watching this space for a long time and seeing the narrative change inch by inch.

grindle

He's not my cup of tea, but at least there's somebody fluent in retard who can efficiently communicate with Trump.

JJJJNR

XLM moon incoming.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

You're missing the point. I couldn't give a fiddlers what the securitons think with that nonsense. I said they were ordinary punters - as in ordinary punters get caught up in this.

Ordinary punters don't get "caught up in this", I've never known anyone who has had significant issues opening a bank account, I mean really? If they do, lord help them buying a car, getting it registered, getting it insured, getting it MOT'd - it's more complex, more paperwork involved. Just because someone is "annoyed" at it doesn't mean squat - the info is needed

You have expended 10x the effort writing these views than it would take sending a utility bill to your bank, or insurance company, or your gas/electricity, or whatever

q85dw7osi4lebg

grindle wrote: »

He's not my cup of tea, but at least there's somebody fluent in retard who can efficiently communicate with Trump.

All of a sudden I'm a fan.

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ordinary punters don't get "caught up in this"

Yes, they do - and I've given you more than one example. You provided no solution for the example at hand i.e. how do you provide a utility bill when there is no utility bill.

Other than that, in terms of friction, the points I made about onboarding in crypto are real. You can dispute that if you wish but you'll be plain wrong to do so.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I've never known anyone who has had significant issues opening a bank account, I mean really?

In the real world, maybe not. You now have encountered one in the virtual sense.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If they do, lord help them buying a car, getting it registered, getting it insured, getting it MOT'd - it's more complex, more paperwork involved.

You know what you know and you don't know what you don't know Dohnjoe.

We've already had one person come on here and validate the point I made in terms of crypto on-boarding (i.e. he gave up because of it). I've further feedback still from a ecomm business that a friend ran that had all manner of resistance getting people onboarded for crypto payment because they didn't want to do the KYC/AML. Other than that, for anyone that follows crypto closely, they know it's been holding it back.

Secondly, that's in a scenario where its just provision of utility bill and ID. Your experience is just that - but that's not the experience every place in the world. It gets mired in pedantic detail.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You have expended 10x the effort writing these views than it would take sending a utility bill to your bank, or insurance company, or your gas/electricity, or whatever

If you stop posting untruths on the subject I'll quite happily stop. Additionally, the above proves you have no notion that it can go far beyond provision of those two items in certain other jurisdictions. I'm months without an account and that's despite having the assistance of lawyers to get it done. There's an ecomm business that cant take payments because of that. Your experience is not everyone elses.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, they do - and I've given you more than one example. You provided no solution for the example at hand i.e. how do you provide a utility bill when there is no utility bill.

If you don't have a utility bill, they will ask for other info. I've opened at least two bank accounts abroad without utility bills

https://www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/migrants/other-migrant-issues/how-do-i-open-uk-bank-account

* Tenancy agreement (if you have just started to rent a place in the UK but do not have any utility bills)
* A letter or payslip from your employer in the UK confirming your UK address
* If you are staying in a hostel you may be able to use their address as a c/o (care of) address

You can use an old bank statement from a prior address, or even use your family home address in certain cases

Other than that, in terms of friction, the points I made about onboarding in crypto are real. You can dispute that if you wish but you'll be plain wrong to do so.

Cryptos will likely have the same KYC if you want to hold your cryptos with a third party (exchange, safekeeper, custodian, etc)

If you want to hold them on personal wallet, then it's not needed (Although if I had the opportunity to hold my cryptos at a safekeeper, insured and serviced then I would, it's far too risky being responsible for them myself)

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

If you don't have a utility bill, they will ask for other info. I've opened at least two bank accounts abroad without utility bills

This doesn't seem to be getting thru to you. Every jurisdiction is different and how each bank/financial institution goes about KYC/AML compliance is different. That was your experience but in NO way can you claim that this is how it plays out in every jurisdiction and with every financial services entity.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

ICryptos will likely have the same KYC if you want to hold your cryptos with a third party (exchange, safekeeper, custodian, etc)

We're talking about crypto as it interfaces with FIAT. We're not talking about anything else. And to the example I provided (the friction in on-boarding people into the crypto eco-system), their first experience will be to purchase crypto with FiAT (by and large). The KYC being a major point of friction and having held adoption back is indisputable.

cnocbui

Dohnjoe wrote: »

They are going to have a hard time with life in general then, sorry

Well yes, people with autism do tend to have it hard in life. I take it you think it's fine to make it even harder; nice.

Have opened bank accounts in several different European countries, same with friends/colleagues, never had issues apart from administrational wait times and the usual paperwork

That's an 'i'm all right jack' response. I have opened a bank account on the continent myself. People who can readily provide the sort of address proof KYC requires don't have problems. It's pretty pointless talking about you, I and others who don't have problems because that is irrelevant and isn't the issue - which is people who do have a significant problem proving address to the satisfaction of banks.

Most times a passport will do for ID and a bill/contract as proof of address

Done it myself

Bully for you. Passport is not a problem, the latter is.

It's for the bank, they need to know a) who you are and b) have documents proving that and address - otherwise they aren't allowed to open an account for you, by law. A law that protects you from lack of due diligence by the bank.

No sh1t. Trouble is, no documents. You have basically admitted that people who can't establish an address have a problem, and there would be many people in that boat.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Ordinary punters don't get "caught up in this", I've never known anyone who has had significant issues opening a bank account, I mean really? If they do, lord help them buying a car, getting it registered, getting it insured, getting it MOT'd - it's more complex, more paperwork involved. Just because someone is "annoyed" at it doesn't mean squat - the info is needed

You have expended 10x the effort writing these views than it would take sending a utility bill to your bank, or insurance company, or your gas/electricity, or whatever

I think you are trying to imply that people who have a problem with this are a bit thick. The person I was referring to has an honors degree in biochemistry, with a focus on genetics.

I wonder if you have ever noticed that every bank and bill provider is trying their damnedest to get customers to accept paperless communications. That is fine for the moment if the financial institutions accept emailed screen shots. I wouldn't be surprised if people start resorting to photoshop to solving their proof of address problems.

cnocbui

Phoebas wrote: »

* Highly volatile. (check)
* Based on thin air (check)
* Can facilitate criminal behaviour (check)

You could be talking about currency trading.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

This doesn't seem to be getting thru to you. Every jurisdiction is different and how each bank/financial institution goes about KYC/AML compliance is different. That was your experience but in NO way can you claim that this is how it plays out in every jurisdiction and with every financial services entity.

Indeed, but you appear to be having some individual personal problem which you are trying to paint as some large general issue, which it isn't. Just because I'm having a frustrating issue supplying documents for e.g. car insurance to a particular company doesn't mean the world is.

We're talking about crypto as it interfaces with FIAT. We're not talking about anything else. And to the example I provided (the friction in on-boarding people into the crypto eco-system), their first experience will be to purchase crypto with FiAT (by and large). The KYC being a major point of friction and having held adoption back is indisputable.

Fiat is regulated, if people are going to use it to pay for cryptos, then they will have to abide by those regulations and processes from the fiat side.

Crypto are the other hand is an absolute cesspit of scams, fraud, dodgy devs, scam exchanges, shoddy fiscal responsibility, constant personal risk, it's the Wild West. I've lost cash on half a dozen projects due to coin exploits, devs running off with cash due to smart contract loopholes, mismanagement, that's fine, I know the risks. I've lost coins on one exchange that I was attempting to trade on (that had no KYC) and ended up being run by a complete criminal (and was lucky not to lose more). That's a key barrier to entry for most "normal" people.

The mantra in crypto is "don't put in what you can't afford to lose" - that should be enough of a clue

I'm in a large crypto group by this stage, but I know nobody who actually enjoys dealing with crypto, it can be an awkward risky mess. The sooner people can just walk up to an institution and buy the stuff, have it serviced, insured, kept safe, is the day you'll see a lot more "adoption" (aka people jumping on board for speculative gains). Crypto will inevitably move toward a more regulated environment (as it currently is) or risk becoming more regulated against.

Dohnjoe

cnocbui wrote: »

No sh1t. Trouble is, no documents. You have basically admitted that people who can't establish an address have a problem, and there would be many people in that boat.

Possibly, but how many people in Ireland have this direct problem, where's the data?

Where's the news stories? thousands of people with jobs can't be paid because they can't open bank accounts? Come on lads

Are you just creating a storm in a teacup over some personal individual cases?

How do you explain how people put cars on the road, there's more paperwork to that, so what is your complaint here, that's a problem too? or you are just selectively ignoring that part too?

Think.

I wonder if you have ever noticed that every bank and bill provider is trying their damnedest to get customers to accept paperless communications. That is fine for the moment if the financial institutions accept emailed screen shots. I wouldn't be surprised if people start resorting to photoshop to solving their proof of address problems.

Yup it's cheaper and saves them having to mail out millions of envelopes.

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, but you appear to be having some individual personal problem which you are trying to paint as some large general issue, which it isn't. Just because I'm having a frustrating issue supplying documents for e.g. car insurance to a particular company doesn't mean the world is.

I'm having a problem with KYC/AML - what else are we talking about here? That was one aspect of the discussion. We discussed the friction KYC/AML causes in crypto. That's with what you think is a stand up system. I don't.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Fiat is regulated, if people are going to use it to pay for cryptos, then they will have to abide by those regulations and processes from the fiat side.

I'm talking about KYC/AML across the board - not just in crypto. Are we capable of free thought here. It doesn't serve anyone - it doesn't prevent money laundering - all it does is facilitate financial surveillance and get in the way of peoples lives.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Crypto are the other hand is an absolute cesspit of scams, fraud, dodgy devs, scam exchanges, shoddy fiscal responsibility, constant personal risk, it's the Wild West. I've lost cash on half a dozen projects due to coin exploits, devs running off with cash due to smart contract loopholes, mismanagement, that's fine, I know the risks. I've lost coins on one exchange that I was attempting to trade on (that had no KYC) and ended up being run by a complete criminal (and was lucky not to lose more). That's a key barrier to entry for most "normal" people.

You're away off having a different discussion with yourself. We're talking about money laundering regulation - ONLY.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The mantra in crypto is "don't put in what you can't afford to lose" - that should be enough of a clue

Again, see above. You're having some other discussion with yourself. That has no place here.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I'm in a large crypto group by this stage, but I know nobody who actually enjoys dealing with crypto, it can be an awkward risky mess. The sooner people can just walk up to an institution and buy the stuff, have it serviced, insured, kept safe, is the day you'll see a lot more "adoption" (aka people jumping on board for speculative gains). Crypto will inevitably move toward a more regulated environment (as it currently is) or risk becoming more regulated against.

Once again, you are having some other discussion. The discussion at hand centers on Anti Money Laundering regulation in isolation - nothing else.

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Possibly, but how many people in Ireland have this direct problem, where's the data?

Anyone who's moved ffs - he doesn't have to provide you with any data! You've been given the examples.

The main point here is that NONE of this is necessary. You won't accept that as you reckon this nonsense protects us from Al Qaeda or some nonsense - when it doesn't. You'll scream blue murder that it does - but so be it.

KYC/AML is a system of financial surveillance - nothing more.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Think.

You're the one that needs to do the thinking - see above.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Where's the news stories? thousands of people with jobs can't be paid because they can't open bank accounts? Come on lads

Come on yerself. It's as clear as night and day that there would be 1000's more people on-boarded into crypto if it wasn't for that nonsense.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Are you just creating a storm in a teacup over some personal individual cases?

No.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

How do you explain how people put cars on the road, there's more paperwork to that, so what is your complaint here, that's a problem too? or you are just selectively ignoring that part too?

Is there a bloody point to that system - it seems there is whereas there's none when it comes to AML/KYC (at least none that's in the public interest). Other than that, last time I checked it isn't the same process. What forms of verification do you need to produce in that process? Wrong analogy.

stockshares

Lads this arguing is tiresome and nothing to do with the thread.

q85dw7osi4lebg

This brightened up my day.

https://youtu.be/M3TzVgGyBFs

Lotsafish

Severely off topic dudes

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm having a problem with KYC/AML - what else are we talking about here? That was one aspect of the discussion. We discussed the friction KYC/AML causes in crypto. That's with what you think is a stand up system. I don't.

Yup, you appear to have personal issues with it, fine, but the issue is that you appear to be claiming it's a significant general problem - no, it's not.

KYC/AML requirements have been passed as law in most major countries at this stage, if you personally disagree with it, that's fine. If you don't understand or accept why it's there (despite it being explained), that's fine also. But it's here to stay and the public have no major issues opening bank accounts as a result

KYC/AML is a system of financial surveillance - nothing more.

Yup, it's to prevent banks being used for money laundering, which is ultimately to protect the public/economy from the ill-effects of that laundering. It's being steadily introduced to crypto exchanges, and there's no good argument against that

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yup, it's to prevent banks being used for money laundering, which is ultimately to protect the public/economy from the ill-effects of that laundering. It's being steadily introduced to crypto exchanges, and there's no good argument against that

Dohnjoe - DROP IT!
I like your input on this board - but yer like a dog with a bloody bone on this - when I said at the very start we'd be disagreeing and that we'd need to agree to disagree. We're pissing others off as it's at the edge of the topic area - so park it up.

My final word on it - KYC/AML is a ruse. You think that there would be additional terrorism and whatever else without it. Not on yer nelly. It's there for financial surveillance.
Your experience is not everyone's experience and far from it. Countless thousands have not bothered with crypto because of it.

You don't agree - and that's fine.

END....

JohnnyFlash

Cryptocoin holders want to sell their coins to other people for a lot more money than they bought them, so they can buy loads of stuff with fiat money.
All this talk about KYC/AML is a fudge - they don’t like it because it makes things slower for getting new bagholders onto the pitch. It’s the same reason the environmental impact of crypto is ignored - it doesn’t support the naked self interest of crypto heads.
It’s all about getting wealthy. This ‘libertarianism is freedom’ garbage is just trying to put a thin ideological sheen on all this. It’s hugely transparent though.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Speaking of KYC, opened a bybit account in 30 seconds last night with just a made up email and can instantly leverage up to my ba**s. I like the ease of it.

cnocbui

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cryptocoin holders want to sell their coins to other people for a lot more money than they bought them, so they can buy loads of stuff with fiat money.
All this talk about KYC/AML is a fudge - they don’t like it because it makes things slower for getting new bagholders onto the pitch. It’s the same reason the environmental impact of crypto is ignored - it doesn’t support the naked self interest of crypto heads.
It’s all about getting wealthy. This ‘libertarianism is freedom’ garbage is just trying to put a thin ideological sheen on all this. It’s hugely transparent though.

Oh give it a rest. Evil Crypto dupes are grasping greedy swine who want to make money from their investments, the scum.

Guilty as charged, now how about you rack off and go and stick your money in the bank - if you have any - and watch it shrink. I'm sure you will be happy knowing the bank is making a mint lending your money to others and giving you nothing in return, after all, it's 'safe'.

sexmag

Anyone see trumpcoin is up 25% in the last 24 house since trump issued that tweet haha

Just need jesus to make a second coming and with my jesuscoin I'll be loaded

Oat23

Anyone else get another letter through the door this week from the MTGOX lawyer in Japan? I hate those bloody letters just reminding me of what happened.

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

Dohnjoe - DROP IT!
I like your input on this board - but yer like a dog with a bloody bone on this - when I said at the very start we'd be disagreeing and that we'd need to agree to disagree. We're pissing others off as it's at the edge of the topic area - so park it up.

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I, but don't browbeat me thanks.

My final word on it - KYC/AML is a ruse.

Cool, that's your personal opinion. My opinion (working in finance with compliance, AML, risk) is that it's not a "ruse" at all.

vargoo

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I, but don't browbeat me thanks.



Cool, that's your personal opinion. My opinion (working in finance with compliance, AML, risk) is that it's not a "ruse" at all.

AAAAAAnd it over, phew!

JJJJNR

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Cryptocoin holders want to sell their coins to other people for a lot more money than they bought them, so they can buy loads of stuff with fiat money.
All this talk about KYC/AML is a fudge - they don’t like it because it makes things slower for getting new bagholders onto the pitch. It’s the same reason the environmental impact of crypto is ignored - it doesn’t support the naked self interest of crypto heads.
It’s all about getting wealthy. This ‘libertarianism is freedom’ garbage is just trying to put a thin ideological sheen on all this. It’s hugely transparent though.

So going by your logic no one should make any money from their assets. Your basically attacking every facet of the retail industry.

You are one major jaw.

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion, as am I, but don't browbeat me thanks.

You engaged on something I never actually intended to engage with here. So there's no 'browbeat' coming from me.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Cool, that's your personal opinion. My opinion (working in finance with compliance, AML, risk) is that it's not a "ruse" at all.

Well, that gives us a better insight then, doesn't it. I maintain that the world won't fall apart if there was no such thing as KYC/AML and that it does little to solve what it purports to.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Give it a rest girls please... The other 3 make it hard enough

q85dw7osi4lebg

Just got 7 USD in BAT on brave android browser. Mobile ads now rolled out

Dohnjoe

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

Just got 7 USD in BAT on brave android browser. Mobile ads now rolled out

Over what period and what kinda use?

Thargor

Can you actually earn money using that BAT browser now or is it still that fake balance crap that you cant actually withdraw?

makeorbrake

Thargor wrote: »

Can you actually earn money using that BAT browser now or is it still that fake balance crap that you cant actually withdraw?

Yes, I've a balance of around 7 usd on it now with relatively unobtrusive ads (and still batting down the really intrusive ads on the web generally). They came up with an excellent concept for sure.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Over what period and what kinda use?

I had nothing this time last week so fairly short time frame

stockshares

makeorbrake wrote: »

Yes, I've a balance of around 7 usd on it now with relatively unobtrusive ads (and still batting down the really intrusive ads on the web generally). They came up with an excellent concept for sure.

Do you have to provide an address to receive payment for the ads that you view?

makeorbrake

stockshares wrote: »

Do you have to provide an address to receive payment for the ads that you view?

Install the browser and click on the rewards tab. There is no ID aspect to it (nor should there be!). Follow the process and setup a BAT wallet. It's childsplay (keeping your wallet key safe isn't childs play - but we're only talking about a 5 year olds pocket money here).

JJJJNR

5 billion tethers just got burned.

https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1150168942104784897?s=19

vargoo

JJJJNR wrote: »

5 billion tethers just got burned.

https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1150168942104784897?s=19

Wayhey, threw in a grand there, will take my whale money back out again on Wednesday.

vargoo

vargoo wrote: »

Wayhey, threw in a grand there, will take my whale money back out again on Wednesday.

This is what...3rd time in 3 weeks, as soon as it starts cliff diving, tether pump.

Im selling everything this time.

€11,454 and im all out.

stockshares

makeorbrake wrote: »

Install the browser and click on the rewards tab. There is no ID aspect to it (nor should there be!). Follow the process and setup a BAT wallet. It's childsplay (keeping your wallet key safe isn't childs play - but we're only talking about a 5 year olds pocket money here).

Thanks, Is it suitable to use as your main Browser. Have you noticed any drawbacks with it.

JJJJNR wrote: »

5 billion tethers just got burned.

https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1150168942104784897?s=19

I have to admit it's all starting to look like a massive scam

coldcake

stockshares wrote: »

Thanks, Is it suitable to use as your main Browser. Have you noticed any drawbacks with it.



I have to admit it's all starting to look like a massive scam

Just to note that we can't earn BAT for viewing ads in Ireland yet, it should be released by the end of the year. However you do get occasional grants but these are only for tipping creators and are not yours to withdraw.

The browser is great and I now use it as my main one on both desktop and Android. However, you do have to do some tweaks for some sites to work.

I have also invested in some Bat.

Dohnjoe

JJJJNR wrote: »

5 billion tethers just got burned.

https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1150168942104784897?s=19

Most likely an error, someone prob keyed in a few extra zeros by mistake.

vargoo

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Most likely an error, someone prob keyed in a few extra zeros by mistake.

They are only after doing a billion, another 5 doesn't seem a stretch.

Arrival

We may hold off on the emigration plans yet lads...I'd be happy enough to pay 12.5% for the peace of mind and less hassle

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/minister-urged-to-slash-capital-gains-tax-in-october-budget-1.3951865?mode=amp