Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

tuff1

el diablo wrote: »

Bitcoin is so massively manipulated and is increasingly under more and more institutional control (Grayscale, BAKKT etc) that it may be quite some time before it goes above (and sustains) $10k. Grayscale are apparently purchasing all the newly mined BTC so you've got to wonder why the price is remaining so static.

Institutional investors buy so much they typically buy OTC. They pay a premium on it but it doesn't affect the price on exchanges, when the OTC supply dries up and they're still in a buying mood, that's when the price starts rocketing up.

el diablo

tuff1 wrote: »

Institutional investors buy so much they typically buy OTC. They pay a premium on it but it doesn't affect the price on exchanges, when the OTC supply dries up and they're still in a buying mood, that's when the price starts rocketing up.

Been hearing that for almost two years but the OTC market shows no sign of drying up. :pac: All this institutional involvement will be disastrous for BTC in the long term. Look what they've done to precious metals over the last several decades. Endless price suppression and manipulation.

makeorbrake

tuff1 wrote: »

Institutional investors buy so much they typically buy OTC. They pay a premium on it but it doesn't affect the price on exchanges, when the OTC supply dries up and they're still in a buying mood, that's when the price starts rocketing up.

It can be assumed that any market can be manipulated in proportion to its overall size. As the market cap for bitcoin grows, that will become more and more difficult. It's not specific to bitcoin - it will happen where its possible. Naturally, any project beneath it will be just as susceptible if not more-so.

tuff1

el diablo wrote: »

Been hearing that for almost two years but the OTC market shows no sign of drying up. :pac: All this institutional involvement will be disastrous for BTC in the long term. Look what they've done to precious metals over the last several decades. Endless price suppression and manipulation.

Gold, for example, was 200 dollars an ounce 20 years ago, over 1800 today. If that's price suppression they're doing a terrible job of it! Don't disagree there's manipulation in many markets and plenty goes on that us plebs don't know about, but it's not the be all and end all of spot value.

makeorbrake

tuff1 wrote: »

Gold, for example, was 200 dollars an ounce 20 years ago, over 1800 today. If that's price suppression they're doing a terrible job of it! Don't disagree there's manipulation in many markets and plenty goes on that us plebs don't know about, but it's not the be all and end all of spot value.

I'd also hope that over the long term, people will be better disposed to self custodying crypto. Of course that's possible today but it's not user friendly. When it does become customer friendly - I'd imagine the advise will be to self custody.
People can self custody gold but then its not as readily available and it brings its own set of problems. I don't mind institutions coming in right now - I think its good for the market. However, I'd hope there's more of a move to self custody - and that this accounts for a very big part of digital assets...for the good of the space and all its participants.

tuff1

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'd also hope that over the long term, people will be better disposed to self custodying crypto. Of course that's possible today but it's not user friendly. When it does become customer friendly - I'd imagine the advise will be to self custody.
People can self custody gold but then its not as readily available and it brings its own set of problems. I don't mind institutions coming in right now - I think its good for the market. However, I'd hope there's more of a move to self custody - and that this accounts for a very big part of digital assets...for the good of the space and all its participants.

True! I think as crypto value goes up (if it goes up) people will take more care as their assets will become more valuable.

I personally know someone who mined 11 BTC back in 2010 on a laptop, only to forget about it until the price boomed years later. When he went back to check his BTC the HDD was corrupted. Why didn't he care at the time? Because it was essentially worthless.

An hour of learning and 50 buckos for a ledger is a small investment in time and money if you're holding any amount of crypto worth talking about.

I do also think however that more and more assets will be kept on exchanges. Over time exchanges have become industry friendly, with the big names (Coinbase, Gemini) offering industry leading insurance (similar to banks) and a range of security measures like cold wallets etc. It will just be easier for people to trust these centralised exchanges rather than themselves, as ironic as that sounds considering the founding principles of Bitcoin.

Also (final point!) curious to know your thoughts on how self custody could be made more user friendly? Storing seed words on paper or keeping a ledger safe is where the industry is at at the moment, where do you envisage it in the future?

makeorbrake

tuff1 wrote: »

Also (final point!) curious to know your thoughts on how self custody could be made more user friendly? Storing seed words on paper or keeping a ledger safe is where the industry is at at the moment, where do you envisage it in the future?

Multi-sig.

maninasia

tuff1 wrote: »

I do also think however that more and more assets will be kept on exchanges. Over time exchanges have become industry friendly, with the big names (Coinbase, Gemini) offering industry leading insurance (similar to banks) and a range of security measures like cold wallets etc. It will just be easier for people to trust these centralised exchanges rather than themselves, as ironic as that sounds considering the founding principles of Bitcoin.

?

I own a ledger and copied the seed etc although it still makes me nervous to hold a large amount of crypto on there. Are they very easy to update the firmware for instance ?

Also I use various online exchanges and wallets for trading convenience and to spread the risk. The idea of cold wallets and KYC helps the customer a lot in terms of security.

I think online wallets combined with KYC and depost insurance for the popular assets probably will be favoured by the majority. Not a million miles away from a bank account.

maninasia

el diablo wrote: »

Been hearing that for almost two years but the OTC market shows no sign of drying up. :pac: All this institutional involvement will be disastrous for BTC in the long term. Look what they've done to precious metals over the last several decades. Endless price suppression and manipulation.

Actually it's been predicted that the price will stabilise as futures were introduced the market. It seems that could indeed be the case.
Me I don't care because there are tonnes of other crypto assets exploding onto the scene, all I need is a stable BTC .

SteelyDanJalapeno

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Anyone hear of TrustSwap?

+370% now since this post, runaway

Lex Luthor

maninasia wrote: »

I own a ledger and copied the seed etc although it still makes me nervous to hold a large amount of crypto on there. Are they very easy to update the firmware for instance ?

Also I use various online exchanges and wallets for trading convenience and to spread the risk. The idea of cold wallets and KYC helps the customer a lot in terms of security.

I think online wallets combined with KYC and depost insurance for the popular assets probably will be favoured by the majority. Not a million miles away from a bank account.

you only ever update the software on the ledger live, I have yet to update the firmware on the ledger device itself but I stand corrected

just keep the seeds safe, you can lose your device and still recover the crypto, its not kept on the device, its on the blockchain

I only use online wallets for crypto I cant keep on the ledger

Lex Luthor

Elon Musk is trying to pump DOGE..........

SkySter

Lex Luthor wrote: »

you only ever update the software on the ledger live, I have yet to update the firmware on the ledger device itself but I stand corrected

just keep the seeds safe, you can lose your device and still recover the crypto, its not kept on the device, its on the blockchain

I only use online wallets for crypto I cant keep on the ledger

I own both the nano x and nano s. The firmware upgrade process is a lot better now and earlier issues were down to low memory on the nano s. I personally have never had a problem. The key thing is to backup your recovery keywords. In the highly unlikely event the device becomes bricked you can restore from these to a fresh device or a soft wallet that supports the same BIP39 standard as is used to generate keys on the ledger.

Lex Luthor

stockshares wrote: »

I received an email from Zeus capital warning that Chainlink is a scam. I dont think I ever signed up to newsletters from them but they may be partners of another Newsletter I signed up to. Regardless, there might be something to what they say about Chainlink so I thought I'd post it here seeing as some posters have invested in Link.

The email reads:
Dear Valued Investor,

Zeus Capital, the asset management firm and activist investor, has published an extensive report on LINK, Chainlink’s proprietary token, making a clear case why investors should exit long positions in this cryptocurrency, as the inflated price is enormously out of sync with the company’s dressed-up appearance and shaky fundamentals.

The report unveils severe discrepancies between the token’s intrinsic value of USD 0.07 and its current market price of USD 8.50, revealing downside risk in excess of 99%.

After having performed an in-depth research of Chainlink, Zeus Capital has built a very strong conviction that the company, its product, and the LINK token are a near-complete fraud.

Here are the key takeaways of the short sale thesis:

There is abundant evidence of market manipulation with traits of classic “pump and dump” techniques, such as trading on inside information, front-running the general public, unsubstantiated claims of progress, artificial transactions to imitate adoption, bogus partnerships announcements, and any other trick in the book to drive up the price prior to dumping LINK onto innocent investors.

The two founders behind Chainlink, are constantly selling LINK from their vast reserves into the market, as well as at a substantial discount from the current price to selected institutions over-the-counter (OTC), thus incentivizing purchasers to lock in profits by quickly selling it further, creating an inevitable downward spiral.

LINK’s characteristics, such as the lack of a functional decentralized ecosystem, combined with recent decisions by the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), leave no doubt that LINK will be classified as a security token, thereby putting the whole enterprise and the investors at substantial risk of anything from dealing in unregistered securities to court orders for the disgorgement of proceeds.

LINK’s tokenomics model is broken with an inherent conflict of interest between holders, clients, and the founding team with regards to the pricing of LINK - we have no doubt that a clash and a crash are imminent.
The people behind the project are a handful, mostly remote, part-time consultants, focused on marketing and community building with very little professional and/or leadership experience. It begs the question of how an overdressed oracle-development project could justify a market cap in excess of $2.75 billion while purporting made-up progress with almost no IT software developers on its staff and fronting business operations out of a co-working space.

Chainlink’s service offering is prohibitively expensive and it makes no economic sense for companies to adopt its oracle solutions. MakerDAO, UniSwap, Compound, etc. are internally-developing alternatives, which will eventually render the promise of LINK obsolete.

The few software developers associated with the project are making frequent but cosmetic changes to the code in a never-ending product beta, while executives who previously took the bait are either fleeing the project or trying to avoid association with it.

Three independent valuation methods suggest that the token is massively overpriced, as its intrinsic value is estimated to be in the 0.05 to 0.20 USD range at best.

Access the Full Investigative Report on Why Chainlink is the Crypto’s Wirecard.

Warning.
In the email I received I did not click on the Link below which was in my email. In my email the Link title read Chainlink Fraud Exposed but the URL pasted below appears differently.
https://mandrillapp.com/track/click/30337332/chainlink.docsend.com?p=eyJzIjoiZUsyTFFDQVVGMUl3Y1kyLWZTa2RFVE96aTJzIiwidiI6MSwicCI6IntcInVcIjozMDMzNzMzMixcInZcIjoxLFwidXJsXCI6XCJodHRwczpcXFwvXFxcL2NoYWlubGluay5kb2NzZW5kLmNvbVxcXC92aWV3XFxcL25mcnZueXV1enJmMmQ1dmFcIixcImlkXCI6XCIxODEzNGNmY2E5Y2Y0OGVmOGIwOThjMzU2ZTNlZTE1YlwiLFwidXJsX2lkc1wiOltcImU5MDg4Y2M0NTllZjJmM2FiZmIwZDJlMDJiY2Y3Y2MyYzg3ZDk2ODZcIl19In0

its sounds all like a jealous "girlfriend" competitor trying to spread FUD to stop the growth of LINK....good luck with that

Stormington

This Link FUD story is getting funnier.

https://twitter.com/ChainlinkFren/status/1284595906562555904/photo/1

SteelyDanJalapeno

Trustswap at 540%

maninasia

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Trustswap at 540%

LEND 938% in just three months.😁

SteelyDanJalapeno

maninasia wrote: »

LEND 938% in just three months.ðŸ˜

Crazy isn't it, this has been 4 days

Truckermal

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Crazy isn't it, this has been 4 days

I wish Elrond would do the same!

SteelyDanJalapeno

maninasia wrote: »

Pro tip for traders

Follow the crypto upcoming news. Most crypto investors don't even know what's coming up more than one week in advance.

https://coindar.org/en/search?type=0&text=&start=2020-06-17&end=2024-06-17&tags=&hot=0&rp=0&fav=0&coins=&cap_from=0&cap_to=600000000000&vol_from=0&vol_to=300000000000&ex=&sort=0&order=0

https://coinmarketcal.com/en/

Can see a few juicy ones coming soon.

Augur V2.0
Cardano Shelley hard fork and staking
IOTA has some big improvements coming June and July and they are on track as I follow them

I made good returns on kyber network because I simply checked their roadmap for up to two months ahead. Some of the teams will give good hints on Twitter as well.

Cheers for the heads up again, 1 month later and Cardano is +53%

Tango One

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

Trustswap at 540%

What is trustswap? Is uniswap the place to buy.

SteelyDanJalapeno

Tango One wrote: »

What is trustswap? Is uniswap the place to buy.

https://trustswap.org/

Not even a white paper yet, interesting idea, but that's all it is for now

Didn't stop me trading it thou, closed out at 345% myself, would have been at 560% now.

Exchanges should be listed here

https://www.coingecko.com/en/coins/swap-token#markets

Tango One

Lend is on another run, is there a difference between ethlend and aave lend, was there some sort of token swap at some point or just a rebrand

Lex Luthor

the Zeus FUD has been linked to NEXO

jimmii

Lex Luthor wrote: »

the Zeus FUD has been linked to NEXO

Is that the shorting speculation? Seen something on twitter earlier its all looking super suspect now. Seems to have put the brakes on links charge thats for sure interesting to see what happens tomorrow.

jimmii

Just seen this on reddit does anyone use telegram?

"Antoni, Nexo Co-Founder posted via Telegram;

​

Hi there, I would like to address the fake news (aka "FUD" in crypto terms) that is seemingly making people jump into unreasonable conclusions.

​

The LINK fud report, which by the way I and the team also received on Friday and brought to the Sergey’s attention asap, is basically a cheap attempt at Chainlink’s and Nexo’s joint efforts and good work."

Full post is here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Nexo/comments/htx8ng/comment/fyjkh80

Tl:dr Nexo claiming false flag.

Gooey Looey

jimmii wrote: »

Just seen this on reddit does anyone use telegram?

Yes, telegram is very popular for support groups. Crypto.com support is on there also my IPTV provider support and status update channels

jimmii

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Yes, telegram is very popular for support groups. Crypto.com support is on there also my IPTV provider support and status update channels

Yeah I know telegram is pretty big was more asking if anyone could verify that was posted by Nexo!

maninasia

Tango One wrote: »

Lend is on another run, is there a difference between ethlend and aave lend, was there some sort of token swap at some point or just a rebrand

Just a rebrand, no swap.
Lend is the governance token .

Tango One

Lend and SNX still going great,

Thanks maninasia for pointing me in that direction.

RasTa

Tezos is the future.

stockshares

Paypal partnering with Paxos.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/paypal-to-reportedly-offer-crypto-trading-through-paxos-partnership

makeorbrake

stockshares wrote: »

Paypal partnering with Paxos.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/paypal-to-reportedly-offer-crypto-trading-through-paxos-partnership

Revolut had partnered with Paxos in recent days to bring a crypto offering to their US customer base.

So long as Paypal have a more reasonable crypto offering than Revolut, this is huge. I hate Paypal - but there's nothing not to like about their 300 million plus active users being exposed to crypto....and having direct access to it through a platform they trust and without having to undergo further KYC.

stockshares

makeorbrake wrote: »

Revolut had partnered with Paxos in recent days to bring a crypto offering to their US customer base.

So long as Paypal have a more reasonable crypto offering than Revolut, this is huge. I hate Paypal - but there's nothing not to like about their 300 million plus active users being exposed to crypto....and having direct access to it through a platform they trust and without having to undergo further KYC.

It might provide opportunities in Defi to lend Paxos also.

Arrival

As long as they allow people to physically buy tokens and transfer to their own private wallets and not more derivative bull**** like Revoluts

Bob24

Arrival wrote: »

As long as they allow people to physically buy tokens and transfer to their own private wallets and not more derivative bull**** like Revoluts

I (genuinely) don’t know if I care TBH.

Of course I get what you mean and most of us here wouldn’t use this type of service. But if it brings new people into the space*, why not?

* and of course turns everyone on this thread into a member of the Irish Lambo owners’ association ;-)

Arrival

Bob24 wrote: »

I (genuinely) don’t know if I care TBH.

Of course I get what you mean and most of us here wouldn’t use this type of service. But if it brings new people into the space*, why not?

* and of course turns everyone on this thread into a member of the Irish Lambo owners’ association ;-)

Because those new people won't be contributing directly to the value if they're not able to physically buy the tokens as derivatives have no influence on the value since you're basically just buying an IOU linked to their value. Only actual exchanges should be used

makeorbrake

Arrival wrote: »

Because those new people won't be contributing directly to the value if they're not able to physically buy the tokens as derivatives have no influence on the value since you're basically just buying an IOU linked to their value. Only actual exchanges should be used

Revolut's offering is a joke. However, Square Crypto / CashApp is the marker that has been thrown down in the 'States - so hopefully Paypal feel the need to match that offering - allowing the actual trading of crypto.

ZeroThreat

So are there any cards currently available that actually allow you to transfer crypto ie. BTC or ETH from your own private wallet and make purchases at a converted fiat rate at that time?

Gooey Looey

ZeroThreat wrote: »

So are there any cards currently available that actually allow you to transfer crypto ie. BTC or ETH from your own private wallet and make purchases at a converted fiat rate at that time?

Revolut, If you have crypto in your Revolut wallet, not private wallet. Does the exchange to fiat as you spend.

Visa only allows Fiat which is what Crypto.com say about their MCO card

q85dw7osi4lebg

Stacked another load of sats there just now. Still expecting a massive breakout within 3 days, $500+. Gut says down (as it's crypto), but ya never know.

Bob24

Arrival wrote: »

Because those new people won't be contributing directly to the value if they're not able to physically buy the tokens as derivatives have no influence on the value since you're basically just buying an IOU linked to their value. Only actual exchanges should be used

I know you don’t directly own the crypto with Revolut and can’t transfer it out, but as far as I know Revolut are working with Bitstamp and there is actual crypto being held by them to back what users are purchasing. See here: https://cryptonews.com/news/revolut-brings-crypto-without-private-keys-to-10m-users-6201.htm

And I’d say it would be hard to build a properly hedged Bitcoin derivative without holding at least some bitcoins and/or other cryptos, as Bitcoin’s correlation with other asset classes is a hit and miss.

Arrival

Bob24 wrote: »

I know you don’t directly own the crypto with Revolut and can’t transfer it out, but as far as I know Revolut are working with Bitstamp and there is actual crypto being held by them to back what users are purchasing. See here: https://cryptonews.com/news/revolut-brings-crypto-without-private-keys-to-10m-users-6201.htm

And I’d say it would be hard to build a properly hedged Bitcoin derivative without holding at least some bitcoins and/or other cryptos, as Bitcoin’s correlation with other asset classes is a hit and miss.

That's not so bad then, I hadn't seen that news. It'll just be better if/when they actually allow people to withdraw since that'd remove all doubt for anyone

Blowheads

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

Stacked another load of sats there just now. Still expecting a massive breakout within 3 days, $500+. Gut says down (as it's crypto), but ya never know.

What did you buy?

makeorbrake

Blowheads wrote: »

What did you buy?

I think InstaSte is going to be a bit put out by that question!

el diablo

Blowheads wrote: »

What did you buy?

He's a BTC maximalist.

unkel

el diablo wrote: »

He's a BTC maximalist.

And the only way that BTC is ever going to hit new ATHs well above the ones from a few years ago, is if there will be more InstaStes. A lot more InstaStes. Millions and millions of them worldwide.

Which is well possible. If an entire generation of people will primarily put their money in BTC as their pension fund instead of traditional ones (which are now more than ever before prone to abuse from the establishment, like plain stealing of your pension like what happened in Ireland during the last recession or massive quantitative easing - the only way to pay for this current recession)

Green&Red

How does Revolut compare to others for charges?

Bob24

Green&Red wrote: »

How does Revolut compare to others for charges?

They are acting as a closed broker (not as an exchange) with no possibility to withdraw any crypto (you can only sell your holdings back on their platform), which is different from most crypto services and not necessarily something more experienced people with crypto would be very interested in. So I guess you’d have to clarify what you mean by “others”, but in terms of fees it looks like the main concern is rather high spreads meaning it is fine to buy and hold, but not great if you are planning to trade a lot.

But really the most important thing if you use it is to make sure you understand you are getting into a closed platform from which you can’t withdraw any crypto. It might be fine for your needs (let’s say you are just planning to speculate on the price for a few months and then liquidate your position), but it it is rather restrictive.

q85dw7osi4lebg

Blowheads wrote: »

What did you buy?