AGS to allow members to wear religous and ethnic garb while on duty

FanadMan

judeboy101 wrote:

It would if they took an oath to serve without favour. Displaying religious symbols says they favour one religion over another. Imagine the psni allowing protestant members to wear an orange sash, as its part of an orange mans ethnic identity.

Well, their knuckles dragging on the ground would be a quicker way to spot them than a sash.

PokeHerKing

MrFresh wrote:

You're not really comparing like with like though are you? You're comparing organisational structure to individual employees. I've seen hundreds of Gardaí wearing ashes on Ash Wednesday in my lifetime, I've never seen a thread on Boards about it. I'm not aware of any rule preventing teachers wearing a hijab or a crucifix. Secularism isn't about forcing people to give up their religion, quite the opposite, it's about not forcing religion on people.

The simple truth is the hijab is forced on women in Muslim countries. Its tied up with relegion to make it easier to force upon them but for the most part it's oppression and the countries way of saying "women must be covered because males cannot be expected to not rape them if they're showing skin" its the equivalent of Western society saying "don't wear a skirt, if you don't want to get raped"

And back in the day in most Western countries that was what was said. But we've thankfully matured as a society to a place where people's actions are their own and if you rape somebody it's because you're a rapist and not because of what someone was wearing.

We're now a country of inward migration, parts of the world that have not moved away from the thinking of fifty years ago are starting to migrate to Ireland for a chance of a better life. Irish societal rules and way of life should be upheld. Worship whatever sky wizard you want but fit that worship into our society. Not the other way around.

Graces7

JonnyMarbles wrote: »

I wonder are cops allowed to refuse to work on Sundays because it's a day of rest?

I'd be very interested to see if this is in the guidelines.

same as catholic doctors and nurses etc are allowed to work on Sundays and always have been.

theguzman

They are actively discriminating against Irish people now. Just shows how we have lost all sovereignty in Ireland, we are ruled by the EU Soros cabal.

Deebles McBeebles

Unreal thread. Who gives a f*ck what religion any garda is? Do ye ask them before accepting their help?

MrFresh

PokeHerKing wrote: »

The simple truth is the hijab is forced on women in Muslim countries. Its tied up with relegion to make it easier to force upon them but for the most part it's oppression and the countries way of saying "women must be covered because males cannot be expected to not rape them if they're showing skin" its the equivalent of Western society saying "don't wear a skirt, if you don't want to get raped"

And back in the day in most Western countries that was what was said. But we've thankfully matured as a society to a place where people's actions are their own and if you rape somebody it's because you're a rapist and not because of what someone was wearing.

We're now a country of inward migration, parts of the world that have not moved away from the thinking of fifty years ago are starting to migrate to Ireland for a chance of a better life. Irish societal rules and way of life should be upheld. Worship whatever sky wizard you want but fit that worship into our society. Not the other way around.

I'd argue that becoming a Garda shows more adaption of our society than not wearing a headdress. As long as they follow the law and Garda code then what's the issue?

One eyed Jack

PokeHerKing wrote: »

The simple truth is the hijab is forced on women in Muslim countries. Its tied up with relegion to make it easier to force upon them but for the most part it's oppression and the countries way of saying "women must be covered because males cannot be expected to not rape them if they're showing skin" its the equivalent of Western society saying "don't wear a skirt, if you don't want to get raped"

And back in the day in most Western countries that was what was said. But we've thankfully matured as a society to a place where people's actions are their own and if you rape somebody it's because you're a rapist and not because of what someone was wearing.

We're now a country of inward migration, parts of the world that have not moved away from the thinking of fifty years ago are starting to migrate to Ireland for a chance of a better life. Irish societal rules and way of life should be upheld. Worship whatever sky wizard you want but fit that worship into our society. Not the other way around.

You’ve even given a good explanation of how a society evolves (not that I entirely agree with your perspective), but then you contradict yourself by suggesting that society shouldn’t evolve, but that it should remain just how it appears to suit you.

I don’t think that’s how social evolution actually works, not even according to your own explanation.

Grayson

theguzman wrote: »

They are actively discriminating against Irish people now. Just shows how we have lost all sovereignty in Ireland, we are ruled by the EU Soros cabal.

is this you at home with the family?

PokeHerKing

One eyed Jack wrote:

You’ve even given a good explanation of how a society evolves (not that I entirely agree with your perspective), but then you contradict yourself by suggesting that society shouldn’t evolve, but that it should remain just how it appears to suit you.

One eyed Jack wrote:

I don’t think that’s how social evolution actually works, not even according to your own explanation.

Our society has evolved past covering women to fight against rape.

I don't think you understand the meaning of evolve.

MrFresh

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Our society has evolved past covering women to fight against rape.

I don't think you understand the meaning of evolve.

But you're still telling them how to dress. You're just banning something instead of demanding it. What's the difference?

Skylinehead

theguzman wrote: »

They are actively discriminating against Irish people now. Just shows how we have lost all sovereignty in Ireland, we are ruled by the EU Soros cabal.

The Rand Corporation, in conjunction with the saucer people, under the supervision of the reverse vampires, are helping.

We're through the looking glass here people.

PokeHerKing

MrFresh wrote:

But you're still telling them how to dress. You're just banning something instead of demanding it. What's the difference?

No there's a uniform in AGS. What part of that do you not understand?

MrFresh

PokeHerKing wrote: »

No there's a uniform in AGS. What part of that do you not understand?

There is, and it's different for men and women. If they could make changes to accommodate women why is there an issue for accommodating religions?

PokeHerKing

MrFresh wrote:

There is, and it's different for men and women. If they could make changes to accommodate women why is there an issue for accommodating religions?

So you want Irish society to accommodate the oppression of Muslim women?

Graces7

What happened to the word "ethnicity" ?

ohnonotgmail

really odd how most of the posts concentrate on the hijab and there has been little or no mention of the turban being allowed.

Cordell

My only question is that if the religion dictates that a dress should be worn at all times, will it go over or under the uniform trousers?

MrFresh

PokeHerKing wrote: »

So you want Irish society to accommodate the oppression of Muslim women?

I'd like Irish society to accommodate Muslim women.

Cordell

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

really odd how most of the posts concentrate on the hijab and there has been little or no mention of the turban being allowed.

And my only other question, is the turban going over or under the uniform hat?

MrFresh

Cordell wrote: »

And my only other question, is the turban going over or under the uniform hat?

It would be in place of.

ohnonotgmail

Cordell wrote: »

And my only other question, is the turban going over or under the uniform hat?

Instead of most likely. something like this i imagine

PokeHerKing

ohnonotgmail wrote:

really odd how most of the posts concentrate on the hijab and there has been little or no mention of the turban being allowed.

It's the obvious one to concentrate on because it shows how ill thought out the whole thing is.

The hijab is not something that should be accommodated into Irish society. It allows the perpetuation of religious oppression to propagate in a new country under the guise of progression.

It's dangerous and stupid and people citing the UK as a leading example of the 'right' way to integrate different cultures?? Yeeeesh.

Cordell

MrFresh wrote: »

It would be in place of.

So a special provision only for certain religions, waiving otherwise mandatory uniform components.

PokeHerKing

MrFresh wrote:

I'd like Irish society to accommodate Muslim women.

It already does.

One eyed Jack

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Our society has evolved past covering women to fight against rape.

I don't think you understand the meaning of evolve.

I understand the meaning of the term social evolution perfectly - a society evolves by individuals basically cherry picking and promoting what they think is good, and demoting or discarding with what they think is bad.

PokeHerKing wrote: »

So you want Irish society to accommodate the oppression of Muslim women?

I don’t think anyone would argue that they want to oppress Muslim women, and while I’m touched by your concern, I generally don’t make a habit of telling women regardless of their religion or reasons for the clothing or symbols they wear, that they are to be prevented from doing so, “for their own good”.

It would make more sense to target the oppressors surely, than those whom you claim are already oppressed?

Sonics2k

Jayferg wrote: »

Removing religion from schools and hospitals is good. Let's make our schools secular. Introduce it to AGS is seen as progressive too? Anyone else find this to be a little strange? Bit of hypocrisy there methinks

Well, they're not really comparable.

People are looking to make schools secular in the sense that the education system will not be influenced by religious beliefs and will not 'enforce' a certain belief system on our children. Citizens are more than free to teach their children a religion and belief system, or send their children to a dedicated religious ethos school which would ideally be a private school.

ohnonotgmail

Cordell wrote: »

So a special provision only for certain religions, waiving otherwise mandatory uniform components.

uniforms are not set in stone. and there is already more than one type of garda cap allowed.

GinAndBitter

Fair play to any Muslims that join the force, I just hope they have thick skin. The abuse Muslim security guards get around Dublin city is shocking. I get a lot of "Don't send me to dangerous place" from the lads I have.

MrFresh

Cordell wrote: »

So a special provision only for certain religions, waiving otherwise mandatory uniform components.

Are you aware that male and female Gardaí wear different hats?

PokeHerKing wrote: »

It already does.

But you want to control how they dress to save them from oppression. You want to ban the headdress for their own good. You don't see a contradiction in your approach?

PokeHerKing

One eyed Jack wrote:

I don’t think anyone would argue that they want to oppress Muslim women, and while I’m touched by your concern, I generally don’t make a habit of telling women regardless of their religion or reasons for the clothing or symbols they wear, that they are to be prevented from doing so, “for their own goodâ€.

Changing the uniform of our state police to allow the wearing of a symbol of opppresion is not the same as telling people what they can and cannot wear.

One eyed Jack wrote:

It would make more sense to target the oppressors surely, than those whom you claim are already oppressed?

Their husbands, brothers, sons, own community? And how would we target them exactly?

Here's a novel idea to start with, don't state sponsor it.