Discovery 2x12 'Through the Valley of Shadows' [Spoilers Within]

TheValeyard

And it's that time again folks!! What's in store this week??? ControlAI, Borg, whaaaa?


What we do know..


Klingon's are back,
Another signal,
Hidden baby,
A new D7 Cruiser
A LOT of Section31 ships. All AI hijacked?

AtomicHorror

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

A new D7 Cruiser

Timestamp??

TheValeyard

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Timestamp??

11Secs

In side view of Discovery. (lower screen left)

Spear

I'm surprised they had Pike be made aware of his almost final fate. It doubles down on the tragic elements of the character that the viewer was already aware of.

But my comparison it makes the Burnham plot look like filler instead.

At least Chief Reno turns up again, just in time to get her own tragic back story.

corkie

Pretty much guessed that this episode would be a filler episode.

Nice preview of Pike's faith for him.

Because of the Short we know discovery doesn't get destroyed.

No more clues to if Control is the origin story of the borg, or just it using similar tech.

CramCycle

Damn trailers, this is why I don't watch them since Buffy. For those of you who didn't watch it, I remember the ad before one finale where they showed the end scene in the trailer before the show. Same sh1t here. WTF. Only watched it after I seen the episode but still.

Dave0301

The show has done a good job of working Pike's backstory into it all. I've enjoyed his character this season.

It would seem that Section 31 being compromised by Control is why they are forced underground in later Trek shows.

fritzelly

Good episode, especially the Pike bit
Next weeks looks like it will be amazing.

Rawr

Some good stuff here. Looking forward to next week.

Very Borg-ish, but I don't think that is a surprise anymore. A little disappointed that they still aren't using typical Borg techniques like the injection tubes (but that might come later).

One thing struck me though-out, which makes me wonder if the rumoured money-woes of the production were true. The Klingon monastery was very clearly a generic "castle" set. It all looks very human, with little to no Klingon styling to the set. I know that sets get re-used for all kinds of shows, but with the exception of the Time-Crystal room, Borath could just as easily been in Medieval Earth. Little to no effort appears to have been done there to make the place Klingon. Could be due to lack of time or money, you never know.

The Pike story was the best part here and if anything just builds up the lore around his character. All those years....and he knew what was coming....and he did it anyway. It just makes me want a Pike / Enterpise show even more...

CramCycle

Confused by the nano bots needing to be injected, since they could obviousl move I'm.

Johnny Storm

Full marks to whoever predicted this would be filler....
But the Pike scene was very good

TheValeyard

Whole thing with Pike was cool. Good lead for next weeks show. Klingon time crystals were pretty awesome.

pixelburp

A bit of a wheel spinning episode, but honestly given the pace this show burns through arcs, a little time spent on some of the characters was a welcome change of pace.

Obviously the standout is Pike and it's actually a little bleakly heartbreaking that he knows his own fate, his faith now put to the test, knowing that victory will result in his disfigurement (and they did a great job updating the wheelchair).

As always we got the tiniest taste of the rest of the crew that went down well - hi Linus! - as well as a reminder that Saru would make a perfectly fine captain, his newly acquired confidence a good arc for season 3.

As for Control, wonder were the nanobots another hint towards the Borg; the syringe, all sickly green, looked VERY like the aesthetics from the previous shows.

fritzelly

One bug bear is Leland had a shield so why didn't Gant???
Different version of Control? Is there copies of it with multiple variations of knowledge. Is Leland still around with the data he got from the sphere.

Goodshape

Good episode! Enjoyed the more relaxed pace.

I'm not going to get too worked up on is it / isn't it Borg. Could be just a creature of the week season. Either is fine at this stage. Although I did think Gant was a little too advanced a little too quickly. Replicating humans perfectly. Hm. It was dodgy holograms at best last week, and I thought Control was threatening enough with that limitation. Guess it's just easier to do an action scene if you personify the foe.

Voq and L'Rell's son was cool.

Pike learning his fate felt like a bit of an audience pleaser. Will be interesting to see if it has any impact on the show or his character. Looked good though.

A little glimpse at [acting-]Captain Saru was promising.

Can't help but wonder if they might go through with destroying Discovery (or actually, sending it into the future to become the ship as we saw in the Short Trek) and move everyone onto Enterprise for Season 3 . Doubt it though

Goodshape

Heh, L'Rell's son was played by Kenneth Mitchell, who also played Kol in season one and Kol-Sha (Kol's father) earlier this season.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kenneth_Mitchell

The guy does a good Klingon!

TheValeyard

Goodshape wrote: »

Can't help but wonder if they might go through with destroying Discovery (or actually, sending it into the future to become the ship as we saw in the Short Trek) and move everyone onto Enterprise for Season 3 . Doubt it though

Think the latter could happen. Discovery gets sent into the far future. Maybe a counter AI program or something.

CramCycle

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Think the latter could happen. Discovery gets sent into the far future. Maybe a counter AI program or something.

Actually, that makes sense, the AI said it was told to wait, maybe it's that simple.in the end. Wait out control location dies with Pike

Goodshape

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Think the latter could happen. Discovery gets sent into the far future. Maybe a counter AI program or something.

Yeah but, will they go for Season 3 without the USS Name-of-the-show?!

I'd be kinda really excited about a Season 3 (and on) on the Enterprise, with Pike as captain and the regulars from Disco mixed with a few of the existing Enterprise crew.

But they couldn't do that.


At least I don't think they could.

pixelburp

Not like they couldn't rebuild the Discovery; wouldn't be the first rebuilt ship in Trek, and it'd also wrap up the Spore Drive anomaly in that the tech would be stuck far into the future. Two birds, one stone n all that.

Stark

Still hope they all (ship + crew) end up 1000 years in the future for Season 3. Failing that, the adventures of the USS Discovery-A seems like the best bet. The writers/producers have already stated that season 3 would take place aboard the Discovery and not the Enterprise/other ship.

Thought this episode was great myself. Loved the moments with Pike, you don't see those kinds of moments in the likes of Voyager, Enterprise or the movie reboots. Catching up with the other characters was nice too.

Control was starting to look more like a T-1000 than a Borg this time round I'd be surprised if it actually turned out to the Borg at this point. There are as many differences as there are similarities. But could be that the Borg at some point encounter Control and it accelerates their development.

pixelburp

Were I on the production team, I feel like the sneaky move would be to remain noncommittal, but leave enough winks, nods and suggestions that mayyybe this is the Borg - and maybe not! Not like there isn't a storied history of fans dissecting every last iota of media these days, this could be a good way to keep Discovery in the mindset. A definitive yes/no would just cause ruction, whereas keeping schtum maintains the conversation

OldMrBrennan83

A Tilly free episode. I approve.

pah

This gives a deeper understanding to spocks actions in TOS The Menagerie, particularly if he discovers that Pikes sacrifice to get the time crystal sealed his fate.

fritzelly

We've had 2 seasons with strong captain characters, is there any leaks as to who is in the running for season 3 or is the lack of news suggesting Saru, personally I would prefer another unknown character

AllForIt

Quite the 'Lord of the Rings' imagery there at 12 mins in, as Pike goes to visit the Timekeepers.

Well, resistance is futile to think this isn't about the Borg now.

It explains their genesis, it goes from pure AI to melding with biological life forms. Isn't that what the Borg always were, half technology, half biological. Best of both.

I'm really liking Spock now when it always seemed wrong to have anyone else other than Nimoy play that character.

Still not getting Burnham as a strong character. Perhaps in the future.

They now have a time crystal which needs to go nearly 1000 years into the future.
What ship ends up nearly 1000 years into the future?

What ship becomes self aware? What data dump in said ship shows intelligence already?

I would not complain if they worked it that Craft ends up in season 3

flazio

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

A Tilly free episode. I approve.

I knew it wasn't as funny as other episodes for some reason. First the admiral, now Tilly, disappearing without absence acknowledged. Something going on here?
(more likely actor availability but we do like to speculate)
Also Pike knew all this time and he never thought to learn Morse Code?

Johnny Storm

flazio wrote: »

...
Also Pike knew all this time and he never thought to learn Morse Code?

Excellent point!

TheValeyard

flazio wrote: »

I knew it wasn't as funny as other episodes for some reason. First the admiral, now Tilly, disappearing without absence acknowledged. Something going on here?
(more likely actor availability but we do like to speculate)
Also Pike knew all this time and he never thought to learn Morse Code?

Think of the effort to have a conversation!

Slydice

Poor aul Pike Anson Mount really did that scene some justice!

The preview of what's to come! SPACE BATTLE!!!!

flazio

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Think of the effort to have a conversation!

As opposed to having to think up yes/no questions? Conversations with flipper and Lassie are easier.

TheValeyard

flazio wrote: »

As opposed to having to think up yes/no questions? Conversations with flipper and Lassie are easier.

Yeah but they were just pushing smokes on kids

Slydice

Slydice wrote: »

The preview of what's to come!

SPACE BATTLE!!!!

Yeah cheers :rolleyes::rolleyes:

OldMrBrennan83

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yeah cheers :rolleyes::rolleyes:

A jaysus, in fairness. Hardly uploading the script for you.

TheValeyard

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

A jaysus, in fairness. Hardly uploading the script for you.

That's AI talk...

I love hipster spock

CastorTroy

I know there's all the talk of the Borg origin, but at the end of their debut episode didn't Picard or someone say the Borg were now aware of them. But Control is already aware of them. So would need to explain that as well.

AMKC

I have to say that was a really good episode although I did not like the canteen scene. It just seemed put in there for no reason and added nothing to the episode.
I thought Anson Mount done a brilliant job here and the part where he gets to see his future outcome was done excellently.
I also loved when Saru said to Micheal just go do it and she was all surprised. Really think he would make an excellent Captain for Discovery next season.

Would love to know what happened to the shuttle that Micheal and Spock had. Did they just leave it where they found the section 31 ship?

I think it would be cool if the AI on Discovery makes it looks like Discovery has self destructed but it has instead gone into the future or to some far part of the Galaxy and we get a new Discovery for season 3.

fritzelly

They took the shuttle back and left the S31 ship where it was

AMKC

fritzelly wrote: »

They took the shuttle back and left the S31 ship where it was

Why would they do that? It does not show them doing that so we can only assume that's what they done then. The clever thing for them to do would have been to dock the shuttle in the S31 ship and then rendezvous with Discovery.

fritzelly

It does show them doing that, few seconds clip of the shuttle returning to Discovery
I guess the two of them alone were not enough to get the ship running

jasonb

Yep, I think Spock says ‘We have to go back to Discovery’ and then it immediately cut to their shuttle arriving at Discovery. I joked to my Wife that is was quicker than the Spore Drive...

TheValeyard

AMKC wrote: »

Why would they do that? It does not show them doing that so we can only assume that's what they done then. The clever thing for them to do would have been to dock the shuttle in the S31 ship and then rendezvous with Discovery.

Could that ship be permanently compromised by the AI? It could be hiding in any system, any station, even a padd.

I would have destroyed the ship.

expectationlost

is it just me or is L'Rell dialogue becoming even more difficult to make out, its like they've changed the make up to push her mouth further back from the opening.

OldMrBrennan83

expectationlost wrote: »

is it just me or is L'Rell dialogue becoming even more difficult to make out, its like they've changed the make up to push her mouth further back from the opening.

I'd noticed that too, the make up around the mouth is really bad now and looks like something from the 90's. I'd presumed it was cuts in budget or something.

AMKC

fritzelly wrote: »

It does show them doing that, few seconds clip of the shuttle returning to Discovery
I guess the two of them alone were not enough to get the ship running

jasonb wrote: »

Yep, I think Spock says ‘We have to go back to Discovery’ and then it immediately cut to their shuttle arriving at Discovery. I joked to my Wife that is was quicker than the Spore Drive...

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Could that ship be permanently compromised by the AI? It could be hiding in any system, any station, even a padd.

I would have destroyed the ship.

Yes that would have been a clever thing for them to do as well.


Yep, I think Spock says ‘We have to go back to Discovery’ and then it immediately cut to their shuttle arriving at Discovery.

I thought that too but then looked at it again. That is Pike returning to Discovery from the Klingon planet.


It does show them doing that, few seconds clip of the shuttle returning to Discovery.

That is Pike returning to Discovery.

CramCycle

AMKC wrote: »

I think it would be cool if the AI on Discovery makes it looks like Discovery has self destructed but it has instead gone into the future or to some far part of the Galaxy and we get a new Discovery for season 3.

And one they would not have needed a time crystal for.

OldMrBrennan83

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

A jaysus, in fairness. Hardly uploading the script for you.

Why not just open 2x13 thread?

AtomicHorror

The decision to make Pike choose his fate was interesting. A powerful moment that really puts The Menagerie in new context.

Also a fascinating development regarding the Klingons. They've held the secret of time travel for centuries but their religion keeps it from being used as a weapon.

Not feeling the Borg connection. Not everything has to join up neat and tidy.

Sonics2k

I am absolutely loving Pikes storyline. It does a great job of showing his quality as a person and Starfleet Officer showing that despite knowing precisely his fate, he's still willing to do it in order to do the right thing.

But. I am not happy about these Borg hints. Half the fun and fear of the Borg was the great mystery of their origins. I'm really put of the by the whole Burnham is the key to -everything ever- nonsense.