Referees

ongarboy

OP - I would take the old fashioned approach and try and call your referees and explain your situation. Unless you had some bad falling out with them (which you shouldn't declare them as referees in that case), most will surely be decent enough to oblige. Busy managers inboxes are flooded with dozens or 100s of mails each day so things like reference requests may get missed or put on the long finger. Try phoning and see if that helps as it adds a human touch to the interaction.

fryup

make up one...give the number of one of your mates down the pub and just have him pose as a manager of a now defunked company e.g. HMV

skallywag

fryup wrote: »

make up one...give the number of one of your mates down the pub and just have him pose as a manager of a now defunked company e.g. HMV

I hope you are kidding? Any hiring manager worth their salt will see through this after about the 3rd question.

OP, I echo the above advice to call these guys directly and them would they be happy to act as a referee for you. You will also be able to judge by the tone of their voice etc. as to how likely they are to sing your praises.

I see the point concerning referees which are ca 10 years old, I would also question this myself.

Mrs OBumble

Baby01032012 wrote: »

However HR have told me the client servicing side of the business have been very happy with me. Unfortunately I don’t report into that side of the business.

It usually doesn't matter whether you have a formal reporting relationship with them.

Call someone suitable from client services, explain the situation and ask them to be a referee.

dreamers75

_Brian wrote: »

You can absolutely give a bad reference, so long as you have evidence to substantiate it should it be questioned.



It’s completely insane though to be telling people they can’t get a bad reference.

You give me a bad reference and i will sue you And it wont matter that you have "proof" several WRC decisions and High Court defamations that went in the employees favour even when the employer had "proof" (absences, tardiness, performance reviews etc) didnt matter in the legal end of things.

So dont give a reference, not sure if you are in a postiion to give references but I would advise you (your HR and legal will also) to not give a bad reference just confirm the employee worked there from X to X and leave it at that. It is literally the worst reference ever and if asked would you hire them again "no comment".

slavetothegrind

dreamers75 wrote: »

You give me a bad reference and i will sue you And it wont matter that you have "proof" several WRC decisions and High Court defamations that went in the employees favour even when the employer had "proof" (absences, tardiness, performance reviews etc) didnt matter in the legal end of things.

So dont give a reference, not sure if you are in a postiion to give references but I would advise you (your HR and legal will also) to not give a bad reference just confirm the employee worked there from X to X and leave it at that. It is literally the worst reference ever and if asked would you hire them again "no comment".

sue away, if it is the truth unembelished says my idealist self.
In truth i would actually say they started on x date and left on y, that's all i have to say about that!

Dav010

dreamers75 wrote: »

You give me a bad reference and i will sue you And it wont matter that you have "proof" several WRC decisions and High Court defamations that went in the employees favour even when the employer had "proof" (absences, tardiness, performance reviews etc) didnt matter in the legal end of things.

So dont give a reference, not sure if you are in a postiion to give references but I would advise you (your HR and legal will also) to not give a bad reference just confirm the employee worked there from X to X and leave it at that. It is literally the worst reference ever and if asked would you hire them again "no comment".

That is really interesting that employees sued over bad references which could be proved, have you links to these “several cases”? they should be compulsory reading for anyone in a position to give a reference.

I assume the cases you refer to are related to bad references only, and not for instance cases taken for unfair dismissal where cases are often lost due to procedural issues.

Uk and Irish law is very similar, this employment advice site references a recent case Hinks v Sense Networks (June 2018) where a judge sided with an employer against an employee who sued because of a bad reference.

http://www.employmentrightsadvice.ie/employer/ending-the-employment/employment-references

This seems to be a pretty good guide on providing a reference, as you can see from the legal advice given, if you can substantiate the reference, it’s truthful and created without malice, then you can sue away if you want.

http://hayes-solicitors.ie/Guidance-for-Employers-regarding-the-provision-of-employee-references-

Here’s another article on the importance of employee references when job hunting.

https://www.morganmckinley.ie/article/making-mess-your-references-can-kill-good-opportunity

skallywag

dreamers75 wrote: »

...and if asked would you hire them again "no comment".

This is nearly always the last question that I get asked myself when acting as referee, and the last question which I ask myself. If I was not happy with the person in question I will answer this question 'no' (while going into no further details if probed), and not with 'no comment'.

This is a simple statement of fact, and does not involve me going out of my way to knock someone. It does send the crystal clear message though that this person is not someone who I would recommend.

Baby01032012

Op here.

I’ve secured the job I wanted. My boss eventuallly agreed to give a reference with a gentle nudge from HR. I over heard most of the phone reference given. Obviously I didn’t hear the questions but I don’t think he did me any favors in his answers. He is not a confident person and would create doubt even with the best employer. I thanked him anyway afterwards. I think it was my other referees that got me over the line.

skallywag

Fair play OP, glad it worked out.