Fear of drugs

Undividual

Had a couple of conversations recently about drugs and am just curious what it is about drugs that prevent people trying them? I understand fearing a loss of control or full on addiction.

In my own case, the hardest I've tried was ecstasy which was great fun the first time and a living nightmare the third (and last) time. I do occasionally smoke grass (about once a month). I went in and out of using it to cope throughout my teens and early 20s. For my 2 cents, it did the job.

My experience of people on coke scared me away from that. I could never justify spending the kind of money people do on that.

My views over the past few years have changed and I lean more towards legalizing soft drugs, providing the tax gained and social benefits would cover the social costs (as with alcohol). I also don't like the thought of money going towards organized criminals.

hatrickpatrick

For me it's the risk of adulterants and neurotoxicity. If straight-up amphetamine (Adderall, not the potentially neurotoxic derivatives such as MDMA or methamphetamine) was legal, I'd use it in a heartbeat for productivity. But as it stands, I wouldn't know what I was buying if I bought it from a street dealer and it's not a gamble I'm prepared to take.

2011

Boards has at least a thread a week on which drugs should be legalized. Regardless of your opinion on the subject it has been done to death.
Here we go again :pac:

There's a lot of unnecessary "fear" of drugs around and also plenty of necessary reluctance which is missing. I know someone who recently had a reaction to antibiotics, nothing too serious but couldn't understand how it happened. They're seriously powerful drugs which we seem to forget.
For illegal drugs the illegality is a major point, people still defer to authority day-to-day. Also people who haven't done drugs before or don't move in those circles will be less likely to notice people who've had positive or neutral experiences with drugs but will notice a junkie nodding off, a drunk swaying or a bang of weed off a group of tracksuited scumbags.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

For me it's the risk of adulterants and neurotoxicity. If straight-up amphetamine (Adderall, not the potentially neurotoxic derivatives such as MDMA or methamphetamine) was legal, I'd use it in a heartbeat for productivity. But as it stands, I wouldn't know what I was buying if I bought it from a street dealer and it's not a gamble I'm prepared to take.

MDMA pretty sure to be in the clear no?

theteal

Just not a lifestyle choice I'd want to make. Not my scene in the slightest. Huddled up in a toilet cubicle sniffing sh!t off the cistern sounds like a failed life to me.

It's clear as day how rampant coke is of late. My ITU nurse wife is bewildered at how people don't realise what they're doing to their bodies.

weldoninhio

Undividual wrote: »

Had a couple of conversations recently about drugs and am just curious what it is about drugs that prevent people trying them? I understand fearing a loss of control or full on addiction.

In my own case, the hardest I've tried was ecstasy which was great fun the first time and a living nightmare the third (and last) time. I do occasionally smoke grass (about once a month). I went in and out of using it to cope throughout my teens and early 20s. For my 2 cents, it did the job.

My experience of people on coke scared me away from that. I could never justify spending the kind of money people do on that.

My views over the past few years have changed and I lean more towards legalizing soft drugs, providing the tax gained and social benefits would cover the social costs (as with alcohol). I also don't like the thought of money going towards organized criminals.

I've never really had a fear of trying anything. I've tried most drugs bar heroin. It was just curiosity that made me try them. My favourite has to be MDMA, not in pill form, but the "pure" (obviously not 100% pure) MDMA. Great high and no comedown.

suicide_circus

the only thing worse than having a fear of drugs is having no fear of drugs.

Undividual

2011 wrote: »

Regardless of your opinion on the subject it has been done to death.

Always glad to see a moderator weigh in with a productive comment.

For future reference, should we only discuss topics that have not been discussed by other people on the internet?

Gimme A Pound

Misinformed educational attempts lead people to believe that they'll die or get sick or go mad or become an addict or they'll graduate to gear the following week... after just trying e.g. E or cocaine or LSD or even weed only once.

Although I think that fear has subsided overall. There is more knowledge now, less scaremongering.

Although it's not a bed of roses either. The reality lies somewhere between the above fears, and everything being totally cool and awesome on drugs (and it should go without saying that heroin, meth and crack should be avoided full stop). Cocaine consumption (with lots of alcohol) has become so commonplace and that's not good.

But you won't die from a dab of mdma. You'll have a great time.

Then there are people who just don't want to break the law or risk their mental health (although ironically alcohol can be terrible for same).

Personally I wouldn't do cocaine because I don't want to be sniffing a powder up my nose in any situation!

Deebles McBeebles

Undividual wrote: »

Had a couple of conversations recently about drugs and am just curious what it is about drugs that prevent people trying them? I understand fearing a loss of control or full on addiction.

I think you got it in one OP.

I've tried most drugs other than heroin and had only positive experiences. You haven't lived until you've seen the inside of your own head while on mushrooms.

bnt

It's not fear of the drugs as such, it's fear of the effects. I don't like being "out of it", not in control of myself - and there's always the spectre of addiction, as mentioned. I can have a beer, look at the ABV, and know exactly what it's going to do to me or not. If other drugs reach that level of precision and relative safety, I might consider those too.

Undividual

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a lot of unnecessary "fear" of drugs around and also plenty of necessary reluctance which is missing. I know someone who recently had a reaction to antibiotics, nothing too serious but couldn't understand how it happened. They're seriously powerful drugs which we seem to forget.
For illegal drugs the illegality is a major point, people still defer to authority day-to-day. Also people who haven't done drugs before or don't move in those circles will be less likely to notice people who've had positive or neutral experiences with drugs but will notice a junkie nodding off, a drunk swaying or a bang of weed off a group of tracksuited scumbags.

I completely agree.

Isnt it curious that people think just because something is illegal that it should be illegal? Its illegal in America to grow tobacco. In Ireland, its illegal to brew your own spirits but you can buy them no problem (I know there are associated risks in distilling etc). Its interesting what risks the government will allow you to take. Half of all violent crimes involve alcohol, never mind drink driving.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

MDMA pretty sure to be in the clear no?

When bought on the street? It just makes me uneasy, I mean how exactly are you supposed to know what it is you're buying? Either pills or powder can easily be 'cut' with other substances. And I'm pretty sure (although I could stand corrected on this) that even pure MDMA is known to be neurotoxic to serotonin producing neurons, although this might just be at extreme dosages or for people who forget to take measures regarding hydration and not getting too hot?

I will say that I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with experimenting with substances known to be safe at certain doses. In fact, having lifelong ADHD and depression symptoms but not wanting to get embroiled in the disastrous Irish mental healthcare system, I sometimes pick a day when I need to get a sh!tload of stuff done, and use Sudafed at the normal 60mg / 4 hours dosage for its mild stimulant effects I'm a totally different person on those days, procrastination becomes totally unattractive and I actually focus on one specific thing I need to get done for as long as it takes to get it done. Incredibly jealous of those who don't need stimulants to do this

As I say, if Ireland didn't ban or restrict literally every form of stimulant other than methylxanthines, I'd use them in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't use something I bought from some random person who could easily be mixing it with God knows what in order to make a bigger profit. I don't look down on people who do - in fact, to be honest in my view those people are fairly brave to take risks like that, fair play to them - but I'm just a little too risk averse for the aforementioned reasons.

TheBoyConor

Perhaps the not knowing what the hell is even in the drugs? Seriously, some of the tablet drugs are mixed with adulterants and cut with god knows what as fillers in the bedrooms of spotty teenagers who are themselves probably high while pressing out the tablets in a cheap press bought off ebay. I don't think intoxicated teenagers are too bothered with quality control.

They'd mix dogshít into it if they could get away with it.

.......

Undividual wrote: »

...just curious what it is about drugs that prevent people trying them?

But most people do try them?

theteal

theteal wrote: »

Just not a lifestyle choice I'd want to make. Not my scene in the slightest. Huddled up in a toilet cubicle sniffing sh!t off the cistern sounds like a failed life to me.

It's clear as day how rampant coke is of late. My ITU nurse wife is bewildered at how people don't realise what they're doing to their bodies.

Yeah it's filth. I'd wager that quite a lot of the uptick in suicides etc. for guys wasn't purely financial pressure and that snorting a few hundred quid up their nose for a couple of years then suddenly not doing it had some input.

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

When bought on the street? It just makes me uneasy, I mean how exactly are you supposed to know what it is you're buying? Either pills or powder can easily be 'cut' with other substances. And I'm pretty sure (although I could stand corrected on this) that even pure MDMA is known to be neurotoxic to serotonin producing neurons, although this might just be at extreme dosages or for people who forget to take measures regarding hydration and not getting too hot?

I will say that I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with experimenting with substances known to be safe at certain doses. In fact, having lifelong ADHD and depression symptoms but not wanting to get embroiled in the disastrous Irish mental healthcare system, I sometimes pick a day when I need to get a sh!tload of stuff done, and use Sudafed at the normal 60mg / 4 hours dosage for its mild stimulant effects I'm a totally different person on those days, procrastination becomes totally unattractive and I actually focus on one specific thing I need to get done for as long as it takes to get it done. Incredibly jealous of those who don't need stimulants to do this

As I say, if Ireland didn't ban or restrict literally every form of stimulant other than methylxanthines, I'd use them in a heartbeat. But I wouldn't use something I bought from some random person who could easily be mixing it with God knows what in order to make a bigger profit. I don't look down on people who do - in fact, to be honest in my view those people are fairly brave to take risks like that, fair play to them - but I'm just a little too risk averse for the aforementioned reasons.

Fair enough but AFAIK it's pretty damn pure most of the time and the main other stuff is MDA and other similar by-products that are weaker again.
Last I checked MDMA had no neurotoxicity. There was a well-pushed thing that it did but it turned out they'd used meth in the experiment by mistake. :P

uck51js9zml2yt

My 8 year old got swabbed at airport security on the way home from holidays this week. He tested positive for drugs!

It was a scary experience as a parent. Thankfully someone with some sense said test him again using a different machine. He got the all clear.

Try explaining that to a kid!!

Because shlt like this can happen if it spirals out of control.

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057580480


Still a fan of drugs but generally stay away. An update on that thread is that I'm over it and my personality is fine now.

Grayson

there's actually stuff I'd love to try. If the world was ending soon and I had nothing better to do . I'd give them a go. The reason i wouldn't try them now is because as someone mentioned, you don't know what's in them but also there's long term health and addiction issues.

hatrickpatrick

....... wrote: »

But most people do try them?

In fairness, if you take alcohol and weed as a separate category and exclude them from this statement, it becomes a lot less accurate. I know plenty of people who've never gone beyond either of those.

Undividual

....... wrote: »

But most people do try them?

What percentage of people try all drugs?

pappyodaniel

Malachi Dead Back wrote: »

My 8 year old got swabbed at airport security on the way home from holidays this week. He tested positive for drugs!

It was a scary experience as a parent. Thankfully someone with some sense said test him again using a different machine. He got the all clear.

Try explaining that to a kid!!

Were you using your 8 year old as a snorting table again?

riffmongous

I've seen too many people turn into losers from drug use, mostly hash actually. Quite a few who didn't too but enough to not take the risk.

Tacitus Kilgore

riffmongous wrote: »

I've seen too many people turn into losers from drug use, mostly hash actually. Quite a few who didn't too but enough to not take the risk.

I'd say they were losers already tbh, the hash just gave them an excuse

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

When bought on the street? It just makes me uneasy, I mean how exactly are you supposed to know what it is you're buying? Either pills or powder can easily be 'cut' with other substances. And I'm pretty sure (although I could stand corrected on this) that even pure MDMA is known to be neurotoxic to serotonin producing neurons, although this might just be at extreme dosages or for people who forget to take measures regarding hydration and not getting too hot?

Get yourself some marquis reagent for testing your MDMA and you're good to go
https://dancesafe.org/shop/

Should you go ahead with it (really strongly advise it if you're on the fence, will probably be one of the most amazing experiences of your life) please have a good look through this harm reduction website https://rollsafe.org/ - clean MDMA is actually a very safe drug, but obviously like all drugs should be treated with respect.

RWCNT

Undividual wrote: »

I do occasionally smoke grass (about once a month). I went in and out of using it to cope throughout my teens and early 20s. For my 2 cents, it did the job.

Someone sold you weed for two cents???? PM me their number please.

Undividual

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I'd say they were losers already tbh, the hash just gave them an excuse

My communion priest said that when you point the finger at someone, you are pointing thrice back at yourself....

Then again, he also got moved out of our parish in the middle of the night and was never heard from again.

riffmongous

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

I'd say they were losers already tbh, the hash just gave them an excuse

Some alright, but others were highly motivated, intelligent people who now work ****ty jobs and waste their days away

shamrock55

riffmongous wrote: »

I've seen too many people turn into losers from drug use, mostly hash actually. Quite a few who didn't too but enough to not take the risk.

You don't drink either then do you

Deebles McBeebles

Undividual wrote: »

My communion priest said that when you point the finger at someone, you are pointing thrice back at yourself....

Then again, he also got moved out of our parish in the middle of the night and was never heard from again.

Presumably for thrice sticking his fingers somewhere they shouldn't have been.

riffmongous

shamrock55 wrote: »

You don't drink either then do you

I've never seen any one my age ruin their lives with drink, compared to hash the risk from my experience is so much lower

Actually correction, in uni I can remember a few people who suffered from drink, but in total numbers the difference was huge

Undividual

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

Presumably for thrice sticking his fingers somewhere they shouldn't have been.

Three fingers once.

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

Some alright, but others were highly motivated, intelligent people who now work ****ty jobs and waste their days away

I dunno. I used to think similarly but by now, it feels like confirmation bias.

Some people are destined to wither away. The vast majority just get on with it. That could be confirmation bias as well, but the older I get, I see people around the same age as myself use drugs more responsibly.

Maybe it's the early twenties that are the danger zone.

Deebles McBeebles

riffmongous wrote: »

I've never seen any one my age ruin their lives with drink, compared to hash the risk from my experience is so much lower

Actually correction, in uni I can remember a few people who suffered from drink, but in total numbers the difference was huge

In the population as a whole I think you'll find alcohol does far more damage than cannabis.

Graces7

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

I think you got it in one OP.

I've tried most drugs other than heroin and had only positive experiences. You haven't lived until you've seen the inside of your own head while on mushrooms.

That is illusory . created by the drugs. not reality

Canis Lupus

Don't like the thought of snorting coke. Would never inject a drug, wouldn't trust mushrooms to be accurately picked and finally wouldn't take a pill off some randomer so my drugs have been nicotine, alcohol and weed. I only do alcohol these days. Weed is nice but makes me insanely hungry and it's hard getting back to a proper sleep routine once you don't have any to help you drift off. Now that I've given up the smokes for some time I can't really smoke weed as it's best mixed with tobacco imo and eating it isn't really the same as having a spliff.

Grayson

riffmongous wrote: »

I've never seen any one my age ruin their lives with drink, compared to hash the risk from my experience is so much lower

Actually correction, in uni I can remember a few people who suffered from drink, but in total numbers the difference was huge

I've had the opposite experience. I've known plenty of alcoholics and many have had severe health problems arising from it. Some have even died. That's besides the violence and social problems that arise from it.

I've found the people who tend to lie around all day stoned and doing nothing are the type of people who would have done it anyway. Weed/Hash just made it easier and less boring.

Balanadan

Not knowing what's in what you're buying, not knowing the side effects, funding organised crime and the negative environmental impact of the production of many drugs. Just a couple of reasons. Not to mention that people who use cocaine are boring as ****, and the recreational cannabis smokers would melt your head talking about the medicinal uses.

Grayson

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Don't like the thought of snorting coke. Would never inject a drug, wouldn't trust mushrooms to be accurately picked and finally wouldn't take a pill off some randomer so my drugs have been nicotine, alcohol and weed. I only do alcohol these days. Weed is nice but makes me insanely hungry and it's hard getting back to a proper sleep routine once you don't have any to help you drift off. Now that I've given up the smokes for some time I can't really smoke weed as it's best mixed with tobacco imo and eating it isn't really the same as having a spliff.

I did mushrooms in amsterdam. Picked a strain that was weaker, just to try. I'd have no problem picking shrooms here. They're not hard to identify. However they are a very strong strain. that's why i tried them in amsterdam first.

It was an ok experience, and I don't think they're really for me.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

That is illusory . created by the drugs. not reality

An important thing to remember about drugs is that they generally don't add to the brain. They alter how the brain produces certain things or blocks things.

So while it's not typical of a person's daily thoughts and lives, it is their brains doing the work to create these experiences.

Deebles McBeebles

Graces7 wrote: »

That is illusory . created by the drugs. not reality

Of course but that's what drugs are. Reality is far more boring and predictable.

PowerToWait

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

In the population as a whole I think you'll find alcohol does far more damage than cannabis.

By quite a considerable margin.

The lazy stoner, all the massive potential stunted by manky soap bar myth. I'd day 90% of my peers coming up smoked joints. Most of them are now settled, good jobs, families etc.

A few alcoholics not going quite as well.

Also, who smokes hash ffs?

Tacitus Kilgore

riffmongous wrote: »

I've never seen any one my age ruin their lives with drink, compared to hash the risk from my experience is so much lower

:eek:

What age are you?


I am 30, I know many more people who've had their lives ruined/damaged/fcuked up by drink than basically any other drug.., like infinitely more...

.......

Grayson wrote: »

They're not hard to identify.

Just to point out that mushroom picking either for hallucinatory experiences or eating is considered an extreme sport.

Experienced people have died or been left with permanent kidney damage from picking and consuming wild mushrooms.

The only way to be sure, absolutely sure, is to do a spore print and look at it under a microscope.

Thinking you can identify by sight alone is both foolish and dangerous.

uck51js9zml2yt

pappyodaniel wrote: »

Were you using your 8 year old as a snorting table again?

They were actually on the 5yo. He was the decoy;)

Balanadan

Balanadan wrote: »

Not knowing what's in what you're buying, not knowing the side effects, funding organised crime and the negative environmental impact of the production of many drugs. Just a couple of reasons. Not to mention that people who use cocaine are boring as ****, and the recreational cannabis smokers would melt your head talking about the medicinal uses.

Literally all of these reasons derive from prohibition.

sk8erboii

riffmongous wrote: »

I've never seen any one my age ruin their lives with drink, compared to hash the risk from my experience is so much lower

Actually correction, in uni I can remember a few people who suffered from drink, but in total numbers the difference was huge

Lol? Is this guy claiming alcoholism is not one of the biggest problems in Ireland?

riffmongous

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

In the population as a whole I think you'll find alcohol does far more damage than cannabis.

Well alcohol is much more common so as a whole doesn't say much about the actual risk

Potential-Monke

There's only a few drugs I fear, and it's because these ones seem intent on causing harm while giving a high, ie: heroin, DMT, etc. The ones where your skin starts to fall away, or your body starts eating you away internally, that's just wrong, regardless of the effect. I can't understand why anyone would try them to begin with.

Another drug I fear, but I think I will try it some day, is LSD. The effects of it sound amazing to me, getting lost in your own thoughts, experiencing potentially vivid hallucinations, etc. But the fear of it comes from the stories of people who go mad on it, possibly due to over use. What most people have said about LSD is that you need to be in the right frame of mind, healthy mentally, otherwise it will attack your fears and insecurities, and I'm definitely note in a mental state right now to take that chance. Having tried salvia, the trip part is what makes me want to try actual LSD, but at least with salvia it's over 15 minutes later. Maybe I should work my way up, try mushies next!

But there is a fear out there, based on nothing but peoples arrogance of them. Cannabis is the prime example. I'm not starting a 'Cannabis iz grate, legalize it' thing here, but there's still so much misinformation out there about it that it's skewing the facts. Problem is, the 'die-hard' stoners who are demanding legalisation are part of the problem, along with people who are only going by word of mouth from people who've probably never even tried it. While the rest of the world is rightly legalising it, good ole Eire is dragging their heels while they try to figure out the best way to make money off it, imo.

Like any drug I've tried, I researched it before taking the plunge. MDMA, cannabis, cocaine, they're all actually harmless if used correctly. I've done them all, and i'm pretty sure I haven't done anything untoward because of it. I've had a couple of bad experiences, but that's the same with anything. Drink too much coffee and you'll get all jittery and can't relax.

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

That is illusory . created by the drugs. not reality

Never really understood this line of thinking...just because an experience isn't "real" in the corporeal sense doesn't mean that it can't be an amazing, memorable, experience.

What about reading a brilliant book or listening to a piece of moving music?

In reality these are just shapes inked on paper in a certain order or different sounds arranged differently - it is our brains which interpret and attribute meaning and significance to these stimuli...just like it does during a great mushroom trip