The Borg

TheValeyard

Very topical at the minute.

What's your views, opinions on them?


In TNG they were the ultimate villians (possibly stolen from Doctor Who, Cybermen)


Voyager ruined them a tad. But I did enjoy Scorpion I&II that opening shot of an unknown enemy blasting Borg cubes was class. Someone capable of destroying the Borg....who!!!!! Borg were brilliant in First Contact. I also think the Enterprise episode with them worked very well.

corkie

Re-watched the Enterprise episode recently.

Regeneration S02E23


Interesting video recap, suitable for this thread!

Also a theory(/wish by people to get rid of a character) doing the rounds is for Tilly to be infected by Control and transported in time and space to delta quadrant and become the borg queen!

AtomicHorror

Sounds Swedish.

corkie

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Sounds Swedish.

ED E

Scale yo images!

AtomicHorror

corkie wrote: »

I'd not be surprised to find a flat pack of Borg next to the Godmorgon, the Skubb and the Dagstorp on a shelf in Ikea.

All would make good Trek alien names...

TheValeyard

ED E wrote: »

Scale yo images!

Seems fine on mobile?????

liamtech

There are many key episodes of TNG and Voyager which give us ideas of how they come about - Q Who is one thats fantastic in terms of the information we got - We would need to comb through it all -

FORTUNATELY - this you-tuber, who i have found excellent, has done it for us!

Only canon TV/Movie info used and i think its a top notch interpretation, and given his conclusions, i dont think Control is the borg - but it may be a PART of what will become the borg!

This is from before discovery so it gives us an unadulterated view of the Borg through canon

corkie

Possible theories and spoilers for the finale of Discovery!

Remnants from first contact creating the Control AI and possibly not the origin story of 'The Borg'

AMKC

I loved the Borg in the beginning. They were scary and my favorite alien villain.
I loved and still do love Q Who and Best of Both Worlds. Loved seeing this massive ship beside what we thought was a big ship and who can forget the first visit to the Borg ship and they come across the baby Borg which they think is Borg that were just born. But then I think it started to go downhill from there.
Voyager for me after Scorpion ruined them. They should have left it at that a brought in a new villain for Voyager after they had got by Borg space.

Rawr

When I first encountered the Borg on TNG I was barely 10 years old, but the awesome scale of this villain resonated with me. So much so I even remember vivid and detailed nightmares of being chased down by the Borg on some far flung outpost.

There are (or were) two things that I felt brought The Borg up to the level of truly great fictional villian.

1) They were a force of nature. The original Borg were an almighty wave that simply unstoppable. Guinan's attitiude towards them in their debut excellently painted them as something that could not be bargained with....and best avoided. This gigantic lumbering juggernaut in space was stonger, older and more numerious than the Star Fleet we had idolised for years. Photon torpedoes wouldn't stop them....just pure luck and skill. This made them formidable and memorable.

2) They don't just kill you, they steal your body and soul. If the Borg were just killers it would be one thing, but the idea that they want to trap you in an unending metal nightmare made them all that more. Don't let them touch you!!!!

ted1

I loved the cubes as in space there’s no need for aerodynamics and hence it’s functuonal.

Also 7 of 9....

liamtech

corkie wrote: »

Possible theories and spoilers for the finale of Discovery!

Remnants from first contact creating the Control AI and possibly not the origin story of 'The Borg'

Iv watched it a few times - its plausable - BUT there are a few problems

Seven of nine knew about the events of star trek first contact which would seemingly eliminate the possibility of those events creating a new future - the enterprise E would have immediately recognized the changes in the timeline when it returned

HOWEVER! It doesnt rule out the possibility of a timeline reboot at the end of season 2 - in which various things are put right

Are we all know convinced that the enemy is Borg? im pretty convinced its either the borg or the writers are taking the mick

Stark

corkie wrote: »

Also a theory(/wish by people to get rid of a character) doing the rounds is for Tilly to be infected by Control and transported in time and space to delta quadrant and become the borg queen!

Well there's a minute of my life I'll never get back.

corkie

Stark wrote: »

Well there's a minute of my life I'll never get back.

The irony of that statement, no matter how you spend time, it is not possible to get it back. (Unless you have a time machine or the end of BST).



I think Sheldon said it best in a recent episode of TBBT/YS!

seamusk84

Loved the Enterprise episode with the Borg.

Total redemption for the Borg. Brought back the original TNG horror.

Worth a rewatch on Netflix if you haven’t seen it for a while.

ted1

liamtech wrote: »

HOWEVER! It doesnt rule out the possibility of a timeline reboot at the end of season 2 - in which various things are put right

k

It’s getting more like Dallas. It was all a dream

corkie

liamtech wrote: »

HOWEVER! It doesnt rule out the possibility of a timeline reboot at the end of season 2 - in which various things are put right

ted1 wrote: »

It’s getting more like Dallas. It was all a dream

Post this before and some responded it is not Dallas!

corkie wrote: »

BAD Theories below!

All of Season 2 is taking place in Pike's head on Talos IV?
Time rewrites so the whole of discovery arc (Both Seasons), never happened.

fritzelly wrote: »

We're not doing Dallas here

Sonics2k

I honestly, honestly hope that Discovery doesn't try to shoehorn the Borg into their story. It completely demolishes the timeline and the mystery of their origin.

The Borg were already overused in Voyager, though like others mentioned I also enjoyed Scorpion 1 and 2.

Star Trek: First Contact remains one of my favourite all time movies because the brutality of the Borg really shows so well in that movie.

seamus

Tbh, if we exclude "Endgame", a lot of what was done in Voyager can be salvaged as it merely provided deeper knowledge into the Borg and exposed that they were apparently more flawed than we saw previously.

The existence of Seven also gave Voyager an edge on the Borg that other ships previously didn't.

Scorpion was a great episode; no matter how insane it seems that the Borg might ally with Voyager rather than assimilate it, there was nothing unbelievable in the partnership, including the Borg's tactical decision to attempt to assimilate Voyager when it suited them.

Endgame unfortunately just went a couple of steps too far, though arguably just leveraged a massive vulnerability that First Contact had introduced - the existence of a "Queen" who was the manifestation of the Borg as an individual and therefore exposed the entire collective to being outsmarted and manipulated.

Col Jack ONeill

Not sure if I saw this posted somewhere here originally. But this video gives a pretty good alternate way to end Voyager with the Borg and also a great idea for a totally different way to end the show, which personally I would have loved to have seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqpjYFki2Pg

liamtech

seamus wrote: »

Tbh, if we exclude "Endgame", a lot of what was done in Voyager can be salvaged as it merely provided deeper knowledge into the Borg and exposed that they were apparently more flawed than we saw previously.

The existence of Seven also gave Voyager an edge on the Borg that other ships previously didn't.

Scorpion was a great episode; no matter how insane it seems that the Borg might ally with Voyager rather than assimilate it, there was nothing unbelievable in the partnership, including the Borg's tactical decision to attempt to assimilate Voyager when it suited them.

Endgame unfortunately just went a couple of steps too far, though arguably just leveraged a massive vulnerability that First Contact had introduced - the existence of a "Queen" who was the manifestation of the Borg as an individual and therefore exposed the entire collective to being outsmarted and manipulated.

I actually think Unimatrix Zero was the worst outing of the borg - even worse than endgame - for a few different reasons

• Why would the Borg collective give a toss if some of its drones were having communal hippy sessions while they were regenerating?? what damage were these guys doing? This is where the Borg queen seemed sadistic in a completely illogical way - Uni-matrix Zero effected sod all drones, and those it did, just had a trippy experience while regenerating - they could do no harm
• WHY IN GODS NAME did the borg queen start to blow up cubes to get rid of one or two borg who were not playing for the home team?? Surey it would simply be a matter of killing or re-assimilating said drones? Remember this is POST 8472WAR period where the borg had lost lots of ships and planets? TOTAL ridiculous behavior - and especially at the end - TACTICAL CUBE - creme de la creme of borg ships - Versus a sphere and Voyager - solution? Blow up the cube????
• the very first scene is RIDICULOUS - This drone has information the queen wants - solution - disconnect him from the hive mind / collective consciousness - Bravo Queen - you should quit the collective and take command of an NX class ship - you'd be in great company

ED E

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Seems fine on mobile?????

The responsive mobile site works with large images, the old version of the site (which many of us still greatly prefer) doesnt so your text was off screen.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

...the old version of the site (which many of us still greatly prefer) doesnt ...

Because it's so much better

antix80

corkie wrote: »

Remnants from first contact creating the Control AI and possibly not the origin story of 'The Borg'

What a twist... and what if the mirror universe of the borg intercept the spore drive and spock founded section 31 as a metaphor for intersectionality and.. nevermind we're 9000 years in the future so we don't have to get bogged down with star trek canon.

I think the discovery writers were told to steer clear of the Borg so they could be used more effectively in Picard - by writers with a better attention span and self control than a child making the "best level ever" in Mario Maker.

AMKC

Am hoping that we get to see and here what happened to the former Borg drones from the ''Voyager'' season 3 Episode ''Unity'' who named themselves the New Collective. I wonder will Chokatay still be able to hear the Borg like Picard can sometimes? I also hope we get to see what happened to Hugh and his group.

I also think even do we see a different type of Borg in the trailer for Picard that the Borg we knew from TNG should still be around if maybe not as big or powerful as they were but still causing havoc out in the Delta Quadrant at least.

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

Am hoping that we get to see and here what happened to the former Borg drones from the ''Voyager'' season 3 Episode ''Unity'' who named themselves the New Collective. I wonder will Chokatay still be able to hear the Borg like Picard can sometimes? I also hope we get to see what happened to Hugh and his group.

I also think even do we see a different type of Borg in the trailer for Picard that the Borg we knew from TNG should still be around if maybe not as big or powerful as they were but still causing havoc out in the Delta Quadrant at least.

The Co-Operative no?

AMKC

Deleted User wrote: »

The Co-Operative no?

Your right yes. That's what I meant lol.

Rawr

Deleted User wrote: »

The Co-Operative no?

And it looks like they've already reached Earth :eek:




Sorry, couldn't help myself...


....I'll get my coat....

LeBash

The Borg were made so toothless over the years. The Dominion were more difficult to defeat than the Borg but when you look at the potential from the first time we see the Borg, they could have been the ultimate enemy.

Voyager negotiated with the Borg, why not just have some super daring run at one of the transwarp conduits knowing there was no possible way to get through Borg Space. They could have got 4-5 great episodes out of that and the fans get left with a cool enemy and not some cuddly talkative buddies.

Rawr

LeBash wrote: »

The Borg were made so toothless over the years. The Dominion were more difficult to defeat than the Borg but when you look at the potential from the first time we see the Borg, they could have been the ultimate enemy.

Voyager negotiated with the Borg, why not just have some super daring run at one of the transwarp conduits knowing there was no possible way to get through Borg Space. They could have got 4-5 great episodes out of that and the fans get left with a cool enemy and not some cuddly talkative buddies.

I tend to blame the decline of the Borg on the often piss-poor "reset button" / "baddie-of-the-week" writing style of Voyager. The Borg in theory were still the awesome enemy we met back in "Q-Who?" but the Voyager writers seemed to have to reduce the Borg Queen to a cartoon villainess and her drones turned into silly henchmen, all in order to finish their story in a self contained episode (or 2-parter).

Back in the day, and even now, I still imagine what the DS9 arc-centric production would have done with the Borg. I sometimes imagine a Borg Cube suddenly parking itself up next to the station and begin a creeping horror of assimilating the station bit by bit, pylon by pylon. It would be a multi-episode arc, with them frantically trying to keep the Borg out of the Habitat Ring, the Central Core and then one final, desperate stand at The Prominade / Ops.

They'd win in the end somehow, but the events would haunt DS9 for at least a season and one or two regulars might even still have visual scars from nearly being assimilated.

For all of this, DS9 had the Dominion. But I can't help but wonder how they'd take on the Borg.