Epic vs Steam

dreamers75

Randy updates his opinion.

https://www.pcgamer.com/gearbox-boss-bitch-and-moan-if-you-want-but-the-epic-store-is-best-for-borderlands-3/

It was this line that stuck out tho, few others about how important Epic are to Gearbox etc etc

One big upside for Gearbox is that Borderlands 3, in Pitchford's estimation, "will be the biggest, by far, new game to arrive" since the Epic Games Store went live. That means Epic is "sure to invest huge amounts of resources specifically for the features most important for Borderlands 3," which in turns means those features will be implemented more rapidly than they otherwise might have been.

So why are B1,B2 and -B2 not being added to EGS with full coop support? Still going with my "you cant play with buddies" issue.

gizmo

dreamers75 wrote: »

So why are B1,B2 and -B2 not being added to EGS with full coop support? Still going with my "you cant play with buddies" issue.

I imagine because the services he's talking about are the online ones from the Epic Roadmap?

Epic’s Online Services
The service launch will begin with a C SDK encapsulating our online services, together with Unreal Engine and Unity integrations. We’ll start with a core set of features and expand over time. Specifically:

Cross-Platform Login, Friends, Presence, Profile, and Entitlements (coming Q2-Q3 2019 to PC, other platforms throughout 2019): Provides the core functionality for persistently recognizing players across multiple sessions and devices; identifying friends; and managing free and paid item entitlements. This will support all 7 major platforms (PC, Mac, iOS, Android, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch) to the full extent each platform allows per-title.

PC/Mac Overlay API (coming Q3 2019): Provides a user interface for login, friends, and other features in a game-agnostic, engine-agnostic way.

Cross-Platform Voice Comms (coming Q3 2019 to all platforms): Epic is building a new in-game voice communications service supporting all platforms, all stores, and all engines, which will be available for free. (For developers needing an immediately-available voice solution, check out Discord, Vivox, TeamSpeak, Ventrilo, and Mumble.)

Cross-Platform Parties and Matchmaking (coming Q3-4 2019 to all platforms)
Cross-Platform Data Storage, Cloud-Saved Games (coming Q2 2019)
Cross-Platform Achievements and Trophies (coming Q3 2019)

The services described above are just our first steps. As you can see from our game and engine efforts, we’re also working on further support for user-generated content, enhanced social features, anti-cheat, and more.

dreamers75

gizmo wrote: »

I imagine because the services he's talking about are the online ones from the Epic Roadmap?

Well I would ****ing hope so tbh.

Basing the absolute point of your game on services on a roadmap and hoping they will be there in time for your game......Bit odd to risk an IP on that.

gizmo

dreamers75 wrote: »

Well I would ****ing hope so tbh.

Basing the absolute point of your game on services on a roadmap and hoping they will be there in time for your game......Bit odd to risk an IP on that.

Well it's worth bearing in mind that much of that functionality is present, one assumes just not in a manner that Epic are comfortable with distributing to third-parties as part of an SDK. That mitigates some of the risk but it's still a hell of a bet for any publisher to take. Pitchford does address that fact in the full tweet chain.

In terms of pure supposition, I wonder have 2K gotten it into the contract that if Borderlands is forced to be delayed due to the backend on Epic's side not being ready, they'll be compensated. You'd think it would have been...mentioned at least?

dreamers75

gizmo wrote: »

Well it's worth bearing in mind that much of that functionality is present, one assumes just not in a manner that Epic are comfortable with distributing to third-parties as part of an SDK. That mitigates some of the risk but it's still a hell of a bet for any publisher to take. Pitchford does address that fact in the full tweet chain.

In terms of pure supposition, I wonder have 2K gotten it into the contract that if Borderlands is forced to be delayed due to the backend on Epic's side not being ready, they'll be compensated. You'd think it would have been...mentioned at least?

Epic are now stating they have 40m PC players who dont have steam, 2k will balance that vs the amount B2 sold (estimated 10m on steam) and assume thats a 50m possible owner pool.

To answer your point, I dont know if it was mentioned for compensation but surely it came up? I mean I hope it came up.

gizmo

dreamers75 wrote: »

Epic are now stating they have 40m PC players who dont have steam, 2k will balance that vs the amount B2 sold (estimated 10m on steam) and assume thats a 50m possible owner pool.

To answer your point, I dont know if it was mentioned for compensation but surely it came up? I mean I hope it came up.

May I asked where you got the 40m figure from? The only stats I've seen in this area came from a translated interview with Sergey Galyonkin where he said that "of all Fortnite players, only half have Steam installed and of those that have it installed, 60% are not using it actively". Applying this to the numbers playing Fortnite, as an article on PCGamesN did, yielded a 40m figure, just curious if it's the same one.

dreamers75

gizmo wrote: »

May I asked where you got the 40m figure from? The only stats I've seen in this area came from a translated interview with Sergey Galyonkin where he said that "of all Fortnite players, only half have Steam installed and of those that have it installed, 60% are not using it actively". Applying this to the numbers playing Fortnite, as an article on PCGamesN did, yielded a 40m figure, just curious if it's the same one.

my bad it was 40% of 85m reported at GDC by epic.

https://www.pcgamer.com/40-percent-of-epic-games-store-users-say-they-dont-have-steam/

dreamers75

EGS to pay refunds for Kickstarter type games if it goes exlusive to EGS

Strange system, if a game is popular on KS, EGS buy it and pay back the buyers who want a steam key.

In some case like an indie hit I can understand that, in others like Shenmue and Point game

Why not just fund the development?

Did EGS not have a game store plan when these originated on KS?

2Mad2BeMad

dreamers75 wrote: »

EGS to pay refunds for Kickstarter type games if it goes exlusive to EGS

Strange system, if a game is popular on KS, EGS buy it and pay back the buyers who want a steam key.

In some case like an indie hit I can understand that, in others like Shenmue and Point game

Why not just fund the development?

Did EGS not have a game store plan when these originated on KS?

There just splashing cash out anywhere and everywhere haha

Nody

dreamers75 wrote: »

Why not just fund the development?

Did EGS not have a game store plan when these originated on KS?

Because by buying games at the end of development they buy customers to use their store; if they fund development there's a risk the game fails were as buying a finished KS game means it's guaranteed to go live and has already an audience that then has to use their launcher.

dreamers75

Nody wrote: »

Because by buying games at the end of development they buy customers to use their store; if they fund development there's a risk the game fails were as buying a finished KS game means it's guaranteed to go live and has already an audience that then has to use their launcher.

I can see that but speaking only of Shenmue and Point, they had the audience and the buyers (obviously).

So why not fund them at the start?

Afaik neither game is finished, just have a lot of backers.

The cynic in me about EGS gets stronger by the day, something is not right. EGS stated they are only adding "quality" games to the store at one point as in only good games on their store. AFAIK neither game is out or near out?

johnny_ultimate

The Epic Game Store was launched at the end of last year, Shenmue 3 and various other KS titles were crowdfunded in many cases several years before that. Also Epic’s Fortnite success also came years after the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, so they probably didn’t have the cash to throw around until relatively recently (although were likely involved from early on via Unreal engine). Given the store was quite clearly launched quickly as a barebones app that also suggests the store was a very recent development.

While I’m no fan of their exclusives policy (although have and will continue to buy games there if I want to play them) I can see the appeal for developers at the crucial last stage of development - those Epic $$$ must be mighty tempting to fund that extra layer of polish (there have been a lot of successful Kickstarters that have run into financial difficulty and clearly struggled to get over the line - Broken Age, despite its astounding Kickstarter success, definitely had major issues that sadly show up in the final game). I mean these developers are willing to risk the bad publicity and fan backlash to take it, so it must be a hell of a cheque.

Nody

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

The Epic Game Store was launched at the end of last year, Shenmue 3 and various other KS titles were crowdfunded in many cases several years before that. Also Epic’s Fortnite success also came years after the Shenmue 3 Kickstarter, so they probably didn’t have the cash to throw around until relatively recently (although were likely involved from early on via Unreal engine). Given the store was quite clearly launched quickly as a barebones app that also suggests the store was a very recent development.

While I’m no fan of their exclusives policy (although have and will continue to buy games there if I want to play them) I can see the appeal for developers at the crucial last stage of development - those Epic $$$ must be mighty tempting to fund that extra layer of polish (there have been a lot of successful Kickstarters that have run into financial difficulty and clearly struggled to get over the line - Broken Age, despite its astounding Kickstarter success, definitely had major issues that sadly show up in the final game). I mean these developers are willing to risk the bad publicity and fan backlash to take it, so it must be a hell of a cheque.

At least one KS developer confirmed the cheque was larger than the total funding from KS; others have hinted it being in the hundreds of thousands on the cheque.

Robert ninja

Yes they essentially let KS do free interest gauging then swoop in and buy out anything that looks promising, borking the whole point of crowd funding. I don't know why anyone would even bother crowdfunding a game now unless they're sure it's niche enough to never get EG headlights on it.

Retr0gamer

Probably just going to take a steam key and pirate the game. Since I've paid for it already I don't see anything wrong with that.

Nody

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Probably just going to take a steam key and pirate the game. Since I've paid for it already I don't see anything wrong with that.

Talking of pirating; several indy developers are asking people to pirate their game over buying it from G2A because of the chargebacks etc. This is due to G2A allowing use of stolen credit cards to buy keys and resell them on the site and the developer will usually not get any money for the sale making it better for the developer if you pirated the game instead vs. having to pay for charge backs against them. That's seriously effed up that G2A get away with it.

nix

G2A are feckin cowboys

Retr0gamer

And also remember Randy Pitchford wanted to do a deal with them until the public backlash and claimed to not know anything about the company, which is a great position to be in when making a deal.

Robert ninja

I always buy direct if it's from dev/publisher I respect, niche/indie or just an amazing game. But I'm not against using places like G2A (some are legit like gamebillet) for huge AAA blockbusters from companies like EA or Take-Two. I bought Max Payne 1-2 bundle from G2A yonks ago for pittance and I'm sure the publisher will survive. I generally stick to known places like steam though if the price isn't too different because of the refund options.

I wouldn't even buy a resold key if it was for EGS though no matter the price.