Drew Harris armoured jeep flung into the air at Garda HQ

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because she followed protocol for an unauthorized vehicle coming through forcefully.

The vehicle the Garda Commissioner was in would not need to enter his own headquarters "forcefully". As pointed out before, if the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants?

Remind me

TomasMacR wrote: »

It says he is staying in Garda HQ while his private residence is making some security upgrades. Where is his private residence? He's using an address, and it looks like he's using it for a while to give a good impression that he is dedicated to his position. If he is commuting regularly which appears to be the case then that is totally disingenuous and wrong.

I would expect a residence will be in the Dublin area.

There is no way the cost would be covered for ERU to be on duty with him at all times driving up to the border on a daily basis and then collection again the following morning.

He is someone who would be invited to a lot of events, late nights/early starts.

Surely from a security point of view him leaving the house in Holywood every morning, being driven to the border then swapping vehicles is not realistic.

Sinus pain

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you insinuating they did it deliberately?

Who knows- but more than likely an accident or malfunction? If the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants? Someone ****** up.

Do you seriously think that someone who is a threat to Garda hq (which is I assume what the Garda believed) is going to stop because she puts out her hand?
I know an ERU vehicle went through but what’s to say if they were an attacker they weren’t following it in to make themselves look harmless?
If she hadn’t have pushed the button and there was a danger she’d have been lambasted. I think she did the right thing given the circumstances. I’d love to know how the people of Northern Ireland feel about his daily escort.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

The vehicle the Garda Commissioner was in would not need to enter his own headquarters "forcefully". As pointed out before, if the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants?

To the person on the gate confronted with an approaching vehicle that has no authorisation it is trying to enter 'forcefully'.

She followed protocol which is clearly not to risk herself.

McMurphy

janfebmar wrote: »

The vehicle the Garda Commissioner was in would not need to enter his own headquarters "forcefully". As pointed out before, if the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants?

So if the Garda HQ is ever attacked by a car bomb that rams the building, the Garda on duty should be instantly hauled Infront of a tribunal and asked why they failed to use their hands to stop it?

Are you on a wind up here or what?

Sinus pain

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because she followed protocol for an unauthorized vehicle coming through forcefully.

The vehicle the Garda Commissioner was in would not need to enter his own headquarters "forcefully". As pointed out before, if the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants?

Yes I agree - following normal protocol or him being in an ERU vehicle - but he wasn’t - he was in a northern reg armoured vehicle that I assume the guard on duty had no prior knowledge of.

Sinus pain

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because she followed protocol for an unauthorized vehicle coming through forcefully.

The vehicle the Garda Commissioner was in would not need to enter his own headquarters "forcefully". As pointed out before, if the Garda wanted to stop the vehicle all she had to do was put out her hand or walk out. Why destroy an expensive vehicle and risk harming the occupants?

Yes I agree - following normal protocol of him being in an ERU vehicle - but he wasn’t - he was in a northern reg armoured vehicle that I assume the guard on duty had no prior knowledge of.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To the person on the gate confronted with an approaching vehicle that has no authorisation it is trying to enter 'forcefully'.
.

You think a vehicle the contains the head of the Gardai has no authority to enter? It should just drop him at the gate and he can walk the rest, while all other cars can enter?

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

You think a vehicle the contains the head of the Gardai has no authority to enter? It should just drop him at the gate and he can walk the rest, while all other cars can enter?

Un-authorised vehicles don't get in, no matter who is in them.

Sinus pain

janfebmar wrote: »

FrancieBrady wrote: »

To the person on the gate confronted with an approaching vehicle that has no authorisation it is trying to enter 'forcefully'.
.

You think a vehicle the contains the head of the Gardai has no authority to enter? It should just drop him at the gate and he can walk the rest, while all other cars can enter?

How was the guard to know who was in the vehicle? All she saw was an armoured northern reg jeep.

janfebmar

Sinus pain wrote: »

Do you seriously think that someone who is a threat to Garda hq (which is I assume what the Garda believed) is going to stop because she puts out her hand?
I know an ERU vehicle went through but what’s to say if they were an attacker they weren’t following it in to make themselves look harmless?

The lads in the ERU should have said they had a vip vehicle following them. If the garda had bothered to stop and ask any of the vehicles their business she would have saved the expensive mistake of wrecking one vehicle and risking its occupants.

janfebmar

Sinus pain wrote: »

How was the guard to know who was in the vehicle?

By asking them. Even if her radio was not working she could have asked the people in the vehicles. People at checkpoints have been asked their identity and business before.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

By asking them. Even if her radio was not working she could have asked the people in the vehicles. People at checkpoints have been asked their identity and business before.

She literally had seconds to react.

I see your point here now. Attach the blame to Paddy, protect the ex PSNI man.

Only realised who I was debating with. :D

Sinus pain

janfebmar wrote: »

Sinus pain wrote: »

Do you seriously think that someone who is a threat to Garda hq (which is I assume what the Garda believed) is going to stop because she puts out her hand?
I know an ERU vehicle went through but what’s to say if they were an attacker they weren’t following it in to make themselves look harmless?

The lads in the ERU should have said they had a vip vehicle following them. If the garda had bothered to stop and ask any of the vehicles their business she would have saved the expensive mistake of wrecking one vehicle and risking its occupants.

I think I’m wasting my time with you. How about why did none of the travelers in the PSNI vehicle or the ERU (which did not need to be stopped and asked what was going on) ensure the guard knew who was in the northern reg vehicle? She is not at fault here not one bit. If that had of been a terrorist she would have been praised for her quick reaction. Instead a Garda emergency response unit and a PSNI equivalent including the Garda commissioner never thought to phone ahead to notify the guard on duty- they are the ones to blame.

Odyssey 2005

janfebmar wrote: »

The lads in the ERU should have said they had a vip vehicle following them. If the garda had bothered to stop and ask any of the vehicles their business she would have saved the expensive mistake of wrecking one vehicle and risking its occupants.

So your blaming the Garda on sentinel duty because she didn't "bother to ask the ERU their business ":P
You really are just winding people up purposely,aren't you. She did her job to 110% of her capabilities. Doesn't matter how "expensive" the vehicle was. It was her job to secure the gate of GHQ, she performed her duties admirably by stopping a potential threat from speeding through the gate and fook the expense.

Tomas81

Buchanan & breen ✓

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She literally had seconds to react.

Because the ERU vehicle or other authorities had not told her of the approaching VIP vehicle? And she did not stop the VIP vehicle?

You do not think a police vehicle containing the head of the Gardai would stop at a checkpoint to show the Garda manning the checkpoint that her boss was in the back?

JohnnyFlash

This thread has jumped the shark in the last few pages and is now in the realm of the lurid Republican conspiracy theory.

janfebmar

Sinus pain wrote: »

Instead a Garda emergency response unit and a PSNI equivalent including the Garda commissioner never thought to phone ahead to notify the guard on duty- they are the ones to blame.

I never said they were not to blame, but the full facts are not known. Perhaps they did phone ahead? Either way the guard should have stopped they before they reached the automatic pillar.

janfebmar

Muahahaha wrote: »

I say it was pretty comical especially as the jeep was stuck up in the air with the bollard underneath it.

Might not have been so funny if it was a petrol vehicle, the petrol tank was ruptured and a spark ignited the fuel.

pablo128

janfebmar wrote: »

Because the ERU vehicle or other authorities had not told her of the approaching VIP vehicle? And she did not stop the VIP vehicle?

You do not think a police vehicle containing the head of the Gardai would stop at a checkpoint to show the Garda manning the checkpoint that her boss was in the back?

The Jeep had no intention of stopping for anyone. It was driven in at speed. If it was going slowly, it wouldn't have been a write off. It's an armoured Jeep. They're tough yokes.

TomasMacR

Tomas81 wrote: »

Buchanan & breen ✓

I think Maurice McCabe is on boards

McMurphy

janfebmar wrote: »

Because the ERU vehicle or other authorities had not told her of the approaching VIP vehicle? And she did not stop the VIP vehicle?

You do not think a police vehicle containing the head of the Gardai would stop at a checkpoint to show the Garda manning the checkpoint that her boss was in the back?

So now you're blaming the driver of the PSNI armoured Jeep?

janfebmar

pablo128 wrote: »

The Jeep had no intention of stopping for anyone.

Why not? Police vehicles generally stop at police checkpoints if told to do so.

pablo128 wrote: »

It was driven in at speed.

If it was driven at speed it would not, according to Muahahaha " have been stuck up in the air with the bollard underneath it."

Teddy Daniels

Vincenzo Hollow Sweater wrote: »

.

Harris isn’t a foreign he’s our commissioner, that would mean he gets ERU close protection in the North not the other crowd down here.

janfebmar

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Harris isn’t a foreign he’s our commissioner, that would mean he gets ERU close protection in the North not the other crowd down here.

Someone else remarked he nearly got killed by one of his own employees. Suppose it was a petrol vehicle and the vertical ram had punctured the petrol tank and exploded?

Maybe all Garda commissioners believe they are somehow above the law?

Odyssey 2005

janfebmar wrote: »

Someone else remarked he nearly got killed by one of his own employees. Suppose it was a petrol vehicle and the vertical ram had punctured the petrol tank and exploded?

His own employees !!!!:eek::eek:

irlgw

I think this is a minor Fk up in comparison to the much bigger one of appointing him in the first place. No senior officer could have survived as long as he did in the RUC without being involved in or at least privy to serious acts of collusion. He's here with an agenda and probably knows enough about collusion to not trust the Gardaí to protect him. Furthermore, he has clearly not demonstrated belief in his own position by being able to create a small team capable of protecting him. I think the Gardai have just joined the PSNI as opposed to him having joined the Gardaí. The Gardaí on duty must have been watching redrock if she learnt how to work a security barrier unless she set her mug on the button by mistake!

Odyssey 2005

bubblypop wrote: »

Maybe all Garda commissioners believe they are somehow above the law?

Well....the last two certainly gave that impression.

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

Someone else remarked he nearly got killed by one of his own employees. Suppose it was a petrol vehicle and the vertical ram had punctured the petrol tank and exploded?

Imagine if a PSNI weapon had got discharged and killed the BanGarda or the Commissioner?

All avoidable if the person who changed the plans had made sure that everyone was in the loop like the professional he is supposed to be.
Is he going to make a habit of popping up unexpectedly for instance?

The buck stops at the top here.

Odyssey 2005

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Imagine if a PSNI weapon had got discharged and killed the BanGarda or the Commissioner?

All avoidable if the person who changed the plans had made sure that everyone was in the loop like the professional he is supposed to be.
Is he going to make a habit of popping up unexpectedly for instance?

The buck stops at the top here.

Wouldn't say much for the bulletproofness of the yoke if the Garda was shot would it.

FrancieBrady

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

Wouldn't say much for the bulletproofness of the yoke if the Garda was shot would it.

Stunned and dazed officer exiting a vehicle...no telling what might happen. If they weren't professional enough to keep all the security team in the loop etc etc.

janfebmar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Imagine if a PSNI weapon had got discharged and killed the BanGarda or the Commissioner?

No such thing as a BanGarda nowadays, afaik.

Police firearms usually have safety catches. Nevertheless they must have got some shock at the very least for the vertical bollard to fling a 2 tonne vehicle up in the air. Suppose the fuel tank exploded?

pablo128

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Stunned and dazed officer exiting a vehicle...no telling what might happen. If they weren't professional enough to keep all the security team in the loop etc etc.

It would be gas if she got thick with them for bombing in the gate. "Your not in mondello now, lads.":pac::pac:

janfebmar

pablo128 wrote: »

It would be gas if she got thick with them for bombing in the gate. "Your not in mondello now, lads.":pac::pac:

They could'nt have been speeding through the checkpoint if they got caught on top of the bollard. Quote:

Muahahaha wrote: »

I say it was pretty comical especially as the jeep was stuck up in the air with the bollard underneath it. .

McMurphy

Tom Conlan said the following.

It would certainly appear that if the PSNI officers in the vehicle carrying Harris were carrying weapons, the Minister did not give any authorisation for them to do so.

And the following was noted.

To counter this, it has been suggested that other foreign security forces – such as the US Secret Service – have been allowed to use firearms in the Republic of Ireland in recent years.

Then

However, such a move would require authorisation from the Minister for Justice, who can give permission to visiting officers to carry weapons on an exceptional basis.

In a statement this morning, Charlie Flanagan offered his support to both police forces while also appearing himself to distance himself from the incident.

And I'm sure janfeb would agree with this....

“If you put gardai in Northern Ireland, unionists would go bananas – and rightly so. It would undermine their territorial integrity and sovereignty.”

Odyssey 2005

pablo128 wrote: »

It would be gas if she got thick with them for bombing in the gate. "Your not in mondello now, lads.":pac::pac:

Your not in Newry now lads :P
I'll teach yez :pac::pac:

Thank god the tank didn't explode !!:D

The Satanist

Did anyone at least check the vehicle for a tax disc?

Muahahaha

janfebmar wrote: »

No such thing as a BanGarda nowadays, afaik.

Police firearms usually have safety catches. Nevertheless they must have got some shock at the very least for the vertical bollard to fling a 2 tonne vehicle up in the air. Suppose the fuel tank exploded?

It was an armoured vehicle. Presumably that means it is bullet proof and bomb proof, especially the fuel tank

Odyssey 2005

Muahahaha wrote: »

It was an armoured vehicle. Presumably that means it is bullet proof and bomb proof, especially the fuel tank

Shhh!

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

No such thing as a BanGarda nowadays, afaik.

Police firearms usually have safety catches. Nevertheless they must have got some shock at the very least for the vertical bollard to fling a 2 tonne vehicle up in the air. Suppose the fuel tank exploded?

Would you trust them to have their safety catches on if they didn't have the sense to inform the entire security team that their plans had changed?

You are correct, anything could have happened here and the person who followed protocol will not be the one to blame.

pablo128

janfebmar wrote: »

No such thing as a BanGarda nowadays, afaik.

Police firearms usually have safety catches. Nevertheless they must have got some shock at the very least for the vertical bollard to fling a 2 tonne vehicle up in the air. Suppose the fuel tank exploded?

You do know that fuel tanks only explode in the movies, right?

FrancieBrady

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Tom Conlan said the following.



And the following was noted.

Was at a wedding of a US marine to an Irish lass and his colour party had to get clearance to bring their ceremonial swords. There was even a Special Branch guy posted at the door until they were taken back to safety in Limerick Garda Station. I was amazed how rigorous they were.

janfebmar

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

And I'm sure janfeb would agree with this...Quote:
“If you put gardai in Northern Ireland, unionists would go bananas – and rightly so. It would undermine their territorial integrity and sovereignty.”.

No, I do not think unionists would go bananas about that, because it is not unknown for bodyguards of visiting vips to be armed. Armed american bodyguards are not unknown in either jurisdiction, for example. And Quote : " SDU bodyguards accompany the President of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins, on official visits in the Republic of Ireland and internationally, and the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, ... All officers within the unit carry firearms"

FrancieBrady

janfebmar wrote: »

No, I do not think unionists would go bananas about that, because it is not unknown for bodyguards of visiting vips to be armed. Quote : " SDU bodyguards accompany the President of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins, on official visits in the Republic of Ireland and internationally, and the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, ... All officers within the unit carry firearms"

And if they did it without 'authorisation', and got arrested, whose fault would that be? The PSNI presumably?

zapitastas

At least he didn't rock up to HQ in a clapped out van with no registration plates and accompanied by lads in balaclavas

janfebmar

pablo128 wrote: »

You do know that fuel tanks only explode in the movies, right?

Not just in the movies. I know of at least 2 cars in real life which accidentally went on fire. Fuel, sparks, heat...very flamable.

Suppose it was a petrol vehicle and the vertical ram had punctured the petrol tank - quite possible when the force was enough to fling the 2 tonne vehicle in to the air...

McMurphy

janfebmar wrote: »

No, I do not think unionists would go bananas about that, because it is not unknown for bodyguards of visiting vips to be armed. Armed american bodyguards are not unknown in either jurisdiction, for example. And Quote : " SDU bodyguards accompany the President of Ireland, Michael D. Higgins, on official visits in the Republic of Ireland and internationally, and the Taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, ... All officers within the unit carry firearms"

Yeah - all with pre-authorisation.

Charlie Flannigan doesn't appear to have authorised the PSNI here though.

janfebmar

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Charlie Flannigan doesn't appear to have authorised the PSNI here though.

If they were not armed would Charlie Flannigan needed to have authorised the PSNI though? Any proof the PSNI were armed when they were here?

I still think the Gardai should have been the ones escorting him back from the border though.