2019 World Snooker Championship (Mod Note Post One)

DJIMI TRARORE

melon_collie wrote: »

Aaron Hill is a very good young player who hopefully will continue to devlop and make it onto the pro tour. Keep any eye out for him

Just had a quick look at irish snooker rankings,we've actually produced quite a few decent U18,U21 Euro and world champs but they are notcoming through at senior level yet. The likes of Boileau are now 22/23 and a few Cork lads seem to be the only possibilities

Say Your Number

I remember seeing something about a young lad from Kilkenny being a hot prospect about 15 years ago, what happened to him?

seanhynes

Say Your Number wrote: »

I remember seeing something about a young lad from Kilkenny being a hot prospect about 15 years ago, what happened to him?

Think you’re referring to Davy Morris,he was qualified for this comp 2/3 years ago but I haven’t seen him in ages think he lost his tour card and got it back via Q School and then dropped off the tour again, he is infact fav for the Irish Amateur Championships

gormdubhgorm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I would quibble a bit, though, with the "emotionless" chinese statement. It might refer accurately enough to Ding and fit the basic asian stereotype,

What about Ding crying in the masters final v Ronnie 2007

Ding crying when winning the Shanghai Masters 2016

Hotblack Desiato

melon_collie wrote: »

It annoys though me that the analysists talk about how popular the game is, waiting lists for tickets, popularity at a high, etc

They're not wrong though, it's getting harder and harder to get Crucible tickets and the substantial increases in pricing reflect the demand. A world championship venue with less than 1000 seats is going to be in high demand.

It's all bullsh1t. What the game needs here i.e. in Ireland and UK is people going to clubs and playing the game. The game is going to die here unless that happens. It's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about.

You're not wrong, either. I played snooker 3 or 4 days a week in Ricardo's during most of my mis-spent student days :pac: but where I'm living 16 years now, there's a snooker hall up the road I've never set foot in. I might bring the kids in there and see if I can spark off a bit of interest (the younger one will need something to stand on!) They did watch a bit of the final, but kids' attention spans these days are measured in minutes.

Hotblack Desiato

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What about Ding crying in the masters final v Ronnie 2007

Yeah, there's some cheap racial stereotypes floating around and it's not something I like to see.

gormdubhgorm

I was never in the Crucible before is as good as they go on about. Or is the place a bit on the pokey side?
I know they done up the crucible about 2010. But the way some of the commentators go on you would swear the venue is the best place on the planet.

Is the place a decent venue?
Is the view good from everywhere?

Hotblack Desiato

Can't remember who it was but one of the BBC commentators claimed the view from the back row is perfect. (And on the rare occasions the camera pans into the audience, you can see right to the back row...)

As a theatre it's pretty unusual, the name "Crucible" reflects not only the tradition of steelmaking in Sheffield but also its circular shape. The audience surround the arena on three sides.

IIRC no seat is more than 20m away from the "stage".

It's definitely on my bucket list!

Exclamation Marc

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was never in the Crucible before is as good as they go on about. Or is the place a bit on the pokey side?
I know they done up the crucible about 2010. But the way some of the commentators go on you would swear the venue is the best place on the planet.

Is the place a decent venue?
Is the view good from everywhere?

I loved it and I've been to an inordinate amount of venues for gigs and most sports you can name. Easy access, centrally located, staff and security are superb. The staff give the impression that working there is something they're proud of so you don't get crappy service.

View is pretty brilliant from nearly everywhere. You're never too far away bar maybe two rows diagonally far back. Zero tolerance of messing or people being d¡cks which is great. Super comfortable too and never an issue getting served in either the merch stand, bar or shop.

It's now one of my favourite venues.

On the topic of tickets, I think they're fairly easy to come by outside of the semi and the final (unless you're prepared to queue). It's just a matter of knowing when they go on sale. A guy I travelled with picked up Quarter final tickets three hours after they went on sale today and theres still decent amounts of tickets there. The issue is just committing a year in advance.

My only (major) quibble is the amount of 'premium' tickets from this year. The first five rows being premium (or the inordinate VIP) is fine generally, but not when there's only nine rows that aren't premium behind it. 33% of seats being premium is a cash grab and it's disgraceful.

AllForIt

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I was never in the Crucible before is as good as they go on about. Or is the place a bit on the pokey side?
I know they done up the crucible about 2010. But the way some of the commentators go on you would swear the venue is the best place on the planet.

Is the place a decent venue?
Is the view good from everywhere?

I find it quite annoying the way it's so cramped and I don't even play there : )
Lots of bottles of water were accidentally knocked over this year.

Alan McManus ran a little comp to guess the total width of the playing area of the arena. The winner and answer was announced today, it's 10m 55cm. I guessed 10m 25cm.

https://twitter.com/alan_mcmanus/status/1118850747003699200

Hotblack Desiato

I take your point, but given there's less than 1000 seats to flog, the high levels of customer service you refer to has to be paid for somehow. (And can we ban the "vegan" t-shirts? Bloody holier-than-thous.)

It is cramped when on two tables, but short of building a custom arena just for snooker I don't see any way around that.

Road-Hog

Birdnuts wrote: »

Parrot said he was like Alex Higgins at this best during the final - very good comparison IMO. Hopefully we get many years of this "naughty" snooker:D;)

Was Higgins ever at his best......? He was so erratic it was ridiculous. How many times in big tournaments did Higgins fail to show......he had the odd final frame win over Steve Davis but for the majority of his career he was fighting his own demons and blamed third parties for a lot of his losses.....don’t get me wrong he had great talent and ability but personality wise he was way out there......getting thrown out of windows, assaulting players and referees, pissing in flower pots after a match etc etc........don’t see a whole lot of similarities with trump to be honest.....parrot is over wearing those rose tinted glasses

Exclamation Marc

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

I take your point, but given there's less than 1000 seats to flog, the high levels of customer service you refer to has to be paid for somehow. (And can we ban the "vegan" t-shirts? Bloody holier-than-thous.)

It is cramped when on two tables, but short of building a custom arena just for snooker I don't see any way around that.

What are the vegan tshirts?

Hotblack Desiato

Well during the first week anyway on one of the tables you couldn't cut to a shot of one of the players sittiing in their seat without seeing yer wan in one of her pro-vegan t-shirts. In the first round she had a couple of accomplices, as well.

Exclamation Marc

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Well during the first week anyway on one of the tables you couldn't cut to a shot of one of the players sittiing in their seat without seeing yer wan in one of her pro-vegan t-shirts. In the first round she had a couple of accomplices, as well.

Ugh sounds awful. Missed them thankfully!

Hotblack Desiato

It's pushing a political agenda as far as I am concerned, if someone was sitting in a prominent position in the Crucible with a "STOP BREXIT" or "LEAVE NOW" t-shirt I'd expect them to be asked to cover up or change their clothing, or be ejected.

gormdubhgorm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's pushing a political agenda as far as I am concerned, if someone was sitting in a prominent position in the Crucible with a "STOP BREXIT" or "LEAVE NOW" t-shirt I'd expect them to be asked to cover up or change their clothing, or be ejected.

I agree. Seems a bit unfair on the likes of that regular fan who used to normally wear the Coventry football shirt
Now he has to wear a bowling shirt with just the Coventry colours.
Yet they have the likes of these others with political statements!?

gormdubhgorm

Road-Hog wrote: »

Was Higgins ever at his best......? He was so erratic it was ridiculous. How many times in big tournaments did Higgins fail to show......he had the odd final frame win over Steve Davis but for the majority of his career he was fighting his own demons and blamed third parties for a lot of his losses.....don’t get me wrong he had great talent and ability but personality wise he was way out there......getting thrown out of windows, assaulting players and referees, pissing in flower pots after a match etc etc........don’t see a whole lot of similarities with trump to be honest.....parrot is over wearing those rose tinted glasses

Plus if you look at the amount of century breaks scored:

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/centuries/most-made/all-time

Alex Higgins only has 86
Terry Griffiths has the same

Cliff Thorburn has 91

Yet the other two were hardly even called a light breeze! They were master tacticians.... etc

Part of the reason Higgins got so few century breaks was because he was a terrible positional player. The mad recovery shots look great in the highlights though.

Hotblack Desiato

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I agree. Seems a bit unfair on the likes of that regular fan who used to normally wear the Coventry football shirt
Now he has to wear a bowling shirt with just the Coventry colours.
Yet they have the likes of these others with political statements!?

Wait, he was stoipped from wearing his Coventry FC shirt? He was there for years! And some eejit decided that soccer was too plebian for the Crucible so he had to wear a bowls shirt? for feck's sake.

Exclamation Marc

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Wait, he was stoipped from wearing his Coventry FC shirt? He was there for years! And some eejit decided that soccer was too plebian for the Crucible so he had to wear a bowls short? for feck's sake.

Yeah when I had my tickets for this year, I received an email with all the usual bells and whistles about travel, access etc but this bit on dress code

"Information regarding dress code

World Snooker requests that no sportswear or team sport shirts are worn. You may be refused admission until suitable alternative clothing is found."

gormdubhgorm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Wait, he was stoipped from wearing his Coventry FC shirt? He was there for years! And some eejit decided that soccer was too plebian for the Crucible so he had to wear a bowls short? for feck's sake.

Yeah, he always sits in the same spot. Barry Hearn brought in the rule last year.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/snooker-football-shirts-ban-coventry-14536856

Hotblack Desiato

Well that would exclute bowls shirts, would it not

Now if they could just come up with a wording that would ban the bloody vegans

Exclamation Marc

It's obviously a move to reduce 'free sponsorship'. Wear a Coventry shirt, you're advertising Midrepro and probably Skybet if it's on the sleeves. Most tv shows where there are live audiences do the same (unless it's for football fans, rugby fans etc).

I kind of understand it but think that guy should have been given a pass on the rules given that he's been doing it for so long.

The vegan one though, I'm all for banning!

Hotblack Desiato

Sad to see a genuine "snooker looper" fall foul of Hearn's bs rules. the irony given that he wore 80s shirts with no gambling, Hearn is fine with snooker being up to its tits in dodgy gambling sites.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Anybody notice his Coventry City themed suit jacket at the final session?

Muppet Man

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus if you look at the amount of century breaks scored:

https://cuetracker.net/statistics/centuries/most-made/all-time

Alex Higgins only has 86

Thats a very interesting site and statistic. Who would have thought Fergal O'Brien has nearly three times as many centuries as Alex Higgins. Bizarre stuff.

Brian?

Muppet Man wrote: »

Thats a very interesting site and statistic. Who would have thought Fergal O'Brien has nearly three times as many centuries as Alex Higgins. Bizarre stuff.

Higgins at his peak competed in about 4 actual tournaments a year. He was banging in centuries at exhibitions all over the place in between.

The century counter is extremely unfair on the older players, they played far less games. That’s before we get into the quality of tables, clothes and balls.

I’d like the see a century per frame count. Ronnie would still be on top, I’d say, but it would be a fairer reflection.

zuutroy

Trump and Ronnie are tied at one century per 11.04 frames. Jimmy is on about 1 every 36 while Alex is around one century per 72 frames.

Arthur Daley

Judd up to number 2, just behind Ronnie.

Selby back to 6 now.

Dave Gilbert up to number 12
Gary Wilson number 20 after their Crucible runs.

Ken is 56, and Fergal a perilous 63. Dominic Dale has dropped out of the top 64, so not sure if he's retiring as a result.

ArmaniJeanss

There's an element of 'before Hendry' and 'after Hendry' about century statistics.

Going for century breaks wasn't really a thing - even Steve Davis during his decade of domination. Steve's standard frame was 'win an early safety encounter, make a break of 40 from loose reds, get into another safety battle and make another 40 points to win the frame'.

Hendry ushered in an entirely new way of playing - going into the pack at an early stage just wasn't the done thing before him. Suddenly Hendry was splitting the reds open when he was on a break of 16 and there were still a couple of loose ones available.

fryup

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Sad to see a genuine "snooker looper" fall foul of Hearn's bs rules. the irony given that he wore 80s shirts with no gambling, Hearn is fine with snooker being up to its tits in dodgy gambling sites.

yep, and he allows a certain JH play with impunity

gormdubhgorm

Muppet Man wrote: »

Thats a very interesting site and statistic. Who would have thought Fergal O'Brien has nearly three times as many centuries as Alex Higgins. Bizarre stuff.

Brian? wrote: »

Higgins at his peak competed in about 4 actual tournaments a year. He was banging in centuries at exhibitions all over the place in between.

The century counter is extremely unfair on the older players, they played far less games. That’s before we get into the quality of tables, clothes and balls.

I’d like the see a century per frame count. Ronnie would still be on top, I’d say, but it would be a fairer reflection.

zuutroy wrote: »

Trump and Ronnie are tied at one century per 11.04 frames. Jimmy is on about 1 every 36 while Alex is around one century per 72 frames.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

There's an element of 'before Hendry' and 'after Hendry' about century statistics.

Going for century breaks wasn't really a thing - even Steve Davis during his decade of domination. Steve's standard frame was 'win an early safety encounter, make a break of 40 from loose reds, get into another safety battle and make another 40 points to win the frame'.

Hendry ushered in an entirely new way of playing - going into the pack at an early stage just wasn't the done thing before him. Suddenly Hendry was splitting the reds open when he was on a break of 16 and there were still a couple of loose ones available.

That is why I compared Alex Higgins to players of his era Terry Griffiths, Thorburn etc. Terry Griffiths retired the same year as Alex and played 7 years less as a pro. I deliberately picked the less flashy players to show up the Alex Higgins myth. His positional play was just a disaster, and he had to constantly try and get himself out of trouble with crazy shots. Great touch though for the feel shots to give him his due.
Also I didn't compare Higgins to Davis even though they played in largely the same era (Davis got over 300 centuries) but had a much longer career than Alex.

gormdubhgorm

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Judd up to number 2, just behind Ronnie.

Selby back to 6 now.

Dave Gilbert up to number 12
Gary Wilson number 20 after their Crucible runs.

Ken is 56, and Fergal a perilous 63. Dominic Dale has dropped out of the top 64, so not sure if he's retiring as a result.

Ken, Fergal and Dominic are really just playing for the fun of it now.

Is there any sign of an Irish fella coming up through the ranks to replace Fergal and Ken yet?
Or have playstation/xbox, netflix, smartphones, and 'Game of Thrones' killed any chance of a young Irish snooker player statistically making it into the top 64?

Inviere

An utterly majestic, next-level display by Trump in the final. Some of the shots were utterly outrageous, with computer-level accuracy needed. I got a real sense of wow when watching him play, as if I was looking at a once in a generation talent once again raising the bar of what's possible. I think if he continues his frame of mind, there's no limits to what he could achieve in the game with that skillset. Not a single player on the circuit could have stopped him in that final match, and lets not forget the absolute thumping he gave Ronnie in the final of the Masters. Massive potential lies ahead for Judd.

D9Male

I have never seen anything like it. An absolutely breathtaking final. Higgins was good, but he was absolutely blown away by safety, long potting and break building. A complete performance.

But I have the gnawing doubt that not only did we think we would be here 7-10 years ago, but also he nearly lost in a couple of earlier games.

He is capable of heights that nobody else (arguably bar Ronnie) can reach. But he is just as capable of mediocrity as any of the other top players.

Inviere

D9Male wrote: »

He is capable of heights that nobody else (arguably bar Ronnie) can reach. But he is just as capable of mediocrity as any of the other top players.

Of course, he's still human. In himself though, he has reached heights this year that he has never before.

DEFTLEFTHAND

What's he like off the table these days? He used to have a bit of a party boy image.

Although his Dad recently said in an interview that he's always been quite shy in reality.

Joe_ Public

I dont believe you can talk about century scoring without reference to the table conditions they enjoy now. I dont fully understand why this point isnt fully grasped by people as we hear commentators talk often enough about the "super fine" cloths, faster tables and, latterly, the fact that they might as well be playing on "nine ball" (Stephen Hendry) tables these days. Previous generations played on heavy cloths with heavier balls that made maneuvering of the cue ball and splitting reds a much harder business than it is today. Mentality is definitely part of it to be sure, Hendry was revolutionary in that respect, but i think to compare players now and of the past in terms of century scored is an exercise in false equivalence as those generations simply could not do things the modern player can on what they had to deal with.

I think the Alex Higgins-Judd Trump comparison is very valid in one crucial respect. Higgins was a flamboyant, reckless player in the 70s who frittered several titles away with a cavalier kamikaze approach on the table. Should have won minimum 3 world titles in that period with his talent imo. By the 80s he had resurrected himself as a fine tactical player with a finely tuned safety game that won him a world title, UK title and a few other big prizes. Tragically as we know, a rabble rousing alcoholic had no real business enjoying a sustained run at the top of the game. But i do think something similar faced Trump over the previous 6-7 years in terms of his playing style.

Judd is truly a great player and his final performance was truly magnificent. He got a handy draw through the tournament this year, i thought, but he made the best of that good fortune and i salute him for it. However, it sticks in this craw a bit to hear the likes of the bbc (and barry hearn which is pretty much the same thing) hype the whole thing as the best ever, best ever final, best ever tournament, best ever standard etc etc. I honestly dont know how that best ever narrative squares with the fact that if everything was so truly wonderful, the game itself is declining and there is little talent coming through in the UK, nothing at all in Ireland and the average age of tournament winners has been steadily increasing for a decade. As someone mentioned earlier, this is the elephant in the room they completely ignore.

Anyway, maybe i'm just a cynical old crank unable to appreciate the greatness of all these guys scoring century after century on what are fast becoming glorified pool tables. But i just think it demeans the sport and is disrespectful to the former greats of the game that they are making scoring so much easier and then trying to sell it as some sort of dizzying, spellbinding modern standard. I dont believe that is the case at all.

Joe_ Public

Arthur Daley wrote: »

Judd up to number 2, just behind Ronnie.

Selby back to 6 now.

Dave Gilbert up to number 12
Gary Wilson number 20 after their Crucible runs.

Ken is 56, and Fergal a perilous 63. Dominic Dale has dropped out of the top 64, so not sure if he's retiring as a result.

Did hear Dale was retiring somewhere, but he did retain his card through the one-year ranking list so would expect to see him on tour again the coming season.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The more I think about Cahill and ROS the more worried I get.

I got a horrible feeling watching Hearn address the match in an interview.

zuutroy

Link?

lassykk

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The more I think about Cahill and ROS the more worried I get.

I got a horrible feeling watching Hearn address the match in an interview.

Worried about what? Ronnie's state of mind or something else?

Separately, thanks to everyone who posted in here during the tournament. Didn't get to watch as much as I used to in previous years but kept up to speed as best I could via here

Road-Hog

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I dont believe you can talk about century scoring without reference to the table conditions they enjoy now. I dont fully understand why this point isnt fully grasped by people as we hear commentators talk often enough about the "super fine" cloths, faster tables and, latterly, the fact that they might as well be playing on "nine ball" (Stephen Hendry) tables these days. Previous generations played on heavy cloths with heavier balls that made maneuvering of the cue ball and splitting reds a much harder business than it is today. Mentality is definitely part of it to be sure, Hendry was revolutionary in that respect, but i think to compare players now and of the past in terms of century scored is an exercise in false equivalence as those generations simply could not do things the modern player can on what they had to deal with.

I think the Alex Higgins-Judd Trump comparison is very valid in one crucial respect. Higgins was a flamboyant, reckless player in the 70s who frittered several titles away with a cavalier kamikaze approach on the table. Should have won minimum 3 world titles in that period with his talent imo. By the 80s he had resurrected himself as a fine tactical player with a finely tuned safety game that won him a world title, UK title and a few other big prizes. Tragically as we know, a rabble rousing alcoholic had no real business enjoying a sustained run at the top of the game. But i do think something similar faced Trump over the previous 6-7 years in terms of his playing style.

Judd is truly a great player and his final performance was truly magnificent. He got a handy draw through the tournament this year, i thought, but he made the best of that good fortune and i salute him for it. However, it sticks in this craw a bit to hear the likes of the bbc (and barry hearn which is pretty much the same thing) hype the whole thing as the best ever, best ever final, best ever tournament, best ever standard etc etc. I honestly dont know how that best ever narrative squares with the fact that if everything was so truly wonderful, the game itself is declining and there is little talent coming through in the UK, nothing at all in Ireland and the average age of tournament winners has been steadily increasing for a decade. As someone mentioned earlier, this is the elephant in the room they completely ignore.

Anyway, maybe i'm just a cynical old crank unable to appreciate the greatness of all these guys scoring century after century on what are fast becoming glorified pool tables. But i just think it demeans the sport and is disrespectful to the former greats of the game that they are making scoring so much easier and then trying to sell it as some sort of dizzying, spellbinding modern standard. I dont believe that is the case at all.

Are the pockets wider these days also vs what they were in the 70’s/80’s. Mr Higgins used to bring this point up in his latter days as a player.

tanko

Road-Hog wrote: »

Are the pockets wider these days also vs what they were in the 70’s/80’s. Mr Higgins used to bring this point up in his latter days as a player.

They say the pockets aren't wider but
apparently because of the super fine cloths used now, the shape of the pocket jaws have been made straighter so that the cloth doesnt tear when pulled over the cushions.
The corner pockets were like buckets in this years championship, its no surprise there were so many century breaks.
The amount of balls that dropped after hitting the cushion two or three inches from the pockets or after bouncing in the jaws three or four times was a joke.

hetuzozaho

You'd not get a lot done with buckets that size.

Joe_ Public

Road-Hog wrote: »

Are the pockets wider these days also vs what they were in the 70’s/80’s. Mr Higgins used to bring this point up in his latter days as a player.

Honestly cant recall what Alex specifically said about pockets back in the day. But have had several discussions with people about this topic over the past few years and heard differing views. Some people think pockets were fairly generous too up to around late 80s and that, mostly due to a certain Mr Hendry in the 90s, they were stiffened up somewhat a decade later. I dont know how that can or could be verified. I watched snooker during all those periods and the issue of pockets never really occurred to me. All i know is that, unlike now, when i watched snooker back then, i wasn't going "how the f... did that drop?" at least twice every frame!

Holy Diver

I honestly think they need to do something about the pockets at this stage. It was much more exciting 10-15 years back when you had to be absolutely perfect to pot anything along the rail. Unlikely to happen of course as I’m sure it suits the agenda to have centuries being knocked in with gay abandon!

zuutroy

The Nal

One is zoomed in to make it look bigger, one isn't.

Fake pocket news.

mickdw

Look at the taper on the slate on the smaller looking one.