Congrats to Becky Lynch and Finn Balor

Berserker

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I am surprised Ryan has not had her on The Late Late Show, I believe he had Sheamus on

Guessing scheduling has a big part to play in that. The WWE are in Dublin next month but it's on a weekday.

rossie1977

Zaph wrote: »

After watching John Oliver's piece about the WWE last week I can't believe that wrestling fans would so willingly hand over almost a billion dollars a year to an organisation that basically craps all over its employees. Except that they're not actually employees, they're all individual contractors who can be dropped in a heartbeat if they're injured for a few weeks. And that's before you start examining the premature death statistics.

Because fans for the most part are only interested in the characters the people play on TV and the storylines not the private lives of pro wrestlers.

In saying that many pro wrestlers are multi millionaires so wrestling fans who are usually poorer and less educated than say boxing or mma fans and probably have their own worries than wondering if a preliminary wrestler will be financially set once his or her contract ends.

Nobody forces wrestlers to sign with WWE. What they make from weekly pay, merchandise, ticket sales, number of dates they must work are all outlined in the detailed contracts they sign with the company before starting. Thats why any lawsuits against WWE on the issue have failed in court. On top of that most of the pro wrestlers are strong conservatives so would feel it's their responsibility to provide for themselves.

Oliver's piece is fine but it contains dated info from 20 years ago in many cases. Since 2007 WWE has one of the finest drug and safety programs in US sport..premier league and GAA would do well to follow it's lead especially regarding concussions.

You also have to take into account there are dozens of pro wrestling feds across America and hundreds across the world primarily in places like Mexico and Japan where there is next to no safety measures in place. If WWE didn't exist those same wrestlers would be working a much more dangerous style without the financial rewards.

Jerichoholic

fullstop wrote: »

If someone wins a fight on Game of Thrones, do you start a thread to congratulate them on the 'achievement'?

It's just entertainment, people are happy that two Irish people are doing well and wanted to talk about it.

What's the harm in that, you could just not read the thread if you don't care.

Jerichoholic

rossie1977 wrote: »

Because fans for the most part are only interested in the characters the people play on TV and the storylines not the private lives of pro wrestlers.

In saying that many pro wrestlers are multi millionaires so wrestling fans who are usually poorer and less educated than say boxing or mma fans and probably have their own worries than wondering if a preliminary wrestler will be financially set once his or her contract ends.

Nobody forces wrestlers to sign with WWE. What the make from weekly pay, merchandise, ticket sales, number of dates they must work are all outlined in the detailed contracts they sign with the company before starting. Thats why any lawsuits against WWE on the issue have failed in court. On top of that most of the pro wrestlers are strong conservatives so would feel it's their responsibility to provide for themselves.

Oliver's piece is fine but it contains dated info from 20 years ago in many cases. Since 2007 WWE has one of the finest drug and safety programs in US sport..premier league and GAA would do well to follow it's lead especially regarding concussions.

You also have to take into account there are dozens of pro wrestling feds across America and hundreds across the world primarily in places like Mexico and Japan where there is next to no safety measures in place. If WWE didn't exist those same wrestlers would be working a much more dangerous style without the financial rewards.

The point of it is WWE are running a scam with "independant contracters" to avoid paying for healthcare and travel expenses. If the were really independent contracters they could work anywhere they wanted, but they absolutely cant.

Vince also "came clean" about wrestling being fake in the 80's to avoid paying a sport tax.

He's a cheapskate, most rich people are though.

rossie1977

fullstop wrote: »

If someone wins a fight on Game of Thrones, do you start a thread to congratulate them on the 'achievement'?

No because that's different. It would be more akin of congratulating an Irish actor who started at the bottom working local theatre in front of 10 people a few years ago to winning an Oscar for best actor/actress.

AllForIt

Some of those wrestlers should be nominated for an Oscar.

Some of those movie fighting actors should get a sports medal.

pleasant Co.

rossie1977 wrote: »

No because that's different. It would be more akin of congratulating an Irish actor who started at the bottom working local theatre in front of 10 people a few years ago to winning an Oscar for best actor/actress.being cast as the lead in a really big episode of a popular long running tv show.

Hmmmmm, it seems the same to me as what you’re saying makes absolutely no sense.

Jerichoholic

Inside the wrestling bubble getting the belt is the same as getting an oscar. To everyone else it means nothing though.

iguana

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

I don’t think normal people care too much about wrestling itself but when you have grown men trying to convince you it’s a sport it gets a bit much.

It's not a sporting competition but I'd say it's a sport in the same way that professional ice-skating or acrobatics is a form of sport. They are high level athletes performing for entertainment. They are excellent at what I'd consider to be a form of gymnastics. So while I wouldn't recognise Lynch and Balor for their wins in the same way that I'd recognise Katie Taylor, for example, they would have to be extremely hard working and talented in their field to be chosen as the winners and the characters who had a whole narrative built around them leading to the win.

Eta: I never enjoyed wrestling myself (other than Netflix' GLOW) but I've taken my son to a few of the shows that tour around Ireland and they are genuinely excellent fun to take kids to. Like a pantomime with scissor kicks. What's not to love?

Guy:Incognito

iguana wrote: »

It's not a sporting competition but I'd say it's a sport in the same way that professional ice-skating or acrobatics is a form of sport. They are high level athletes performing for entertainment. They are excellent at what I'd consider to be a form of gymnastics. So while I wouldn't recognise Lynch and Balor for their wins in the same way that I'd recognise Katie Taylor, for example, they would have to be extremely hard working and talented in their field to be chosen as the winners and the characters who had a whole narrative built around them leading to the win.

For it to be a sport it has to be a competition. Its not a competition if its scripted, with predetermined "winners"

iguana

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

For it to be a sport it has to be a competition.

It doesn't necessarily. The Council of Europe's European Sports Charter, for example, states that 'Sport' means all forms of physical activity which, through casual or organised participation, aim at expressing or improving physical fitness and mental well-being, forming social relationships or obtaining results in competition at all levels. WWE style wrestling certainly falls into that definition.

eagle eye

**** Europe's definition. Its scripted and fictional, it's a theatre or circus act, take your pick

YFlyer

Fighting Tao wrote: »

They won nothing. It’s scripted like a soap opera. Do you send congrats to the cast of Fair City for not screwing up their lines?

Wasn't there some public reaction to some event in a British soap years back? Even Tony Blair government got involved. Can't remember the details.

Jerichoholic

Jerichoholic wrote: »

Inside the wrestling bubble getting the belt is the same as getting an oscar. To everyone else it means nothing though.

But that's true of pretty much everything?


I couldn't give a shte who wins a UFC championship. Couldn't name two or three UFC fighters if I tried (exceptions being McGregor cos he's forced down our throats, and Lesnar cos... It's Lesnar.).


If you're a huge UFC fan you'll probably want to cut my throat for saying that.. yet you probably won't be able to name 3 Golfers yourself, etc. etc.


Not everyone cares about everything, but I still think it's nice when a lad from Wicklow is a headline act at a WrestleMania.

Necro

fullstop wrote:

If someone wins a fight on Game of Thrones, do you start a thread to congratulate them on the 'achievement'?

No of course not. Because they are two separate things.

But there are threads started to discuss each and every separate episode in a similar fashion.

So your point is ridiculous as both things are openly discussed not just here, but in their dedicated forum.

It just so happens that WWE had their version of the Superbowl/All Ireland/Season Finale last night and the OP wished to discuss the Irish involvement.

Got any more ridiculous statements for me to completely debunk while you're at it?

IncognitoMan

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

One of the managers couldn’t keep a straight face when he was telling us about it on a coffee break.

Ironically enough I presume it's because he sees it as childish behaviour but he's the one acting like a 14 year old girl. :pac:

padd b1975

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I am surprised Ryan has not had her on The Late Late Show, I believe he had Sheamus on

Gay had Giant Haystacks on back in the day.

Yurt2

To me, golf is a load of auld lads running around a manicured field trying to get a ball in a hole. There's competition involved sure - but I think it's one of the more pointless and silly looking sports. But, it floats people's boats so whatever. I'll just say it's not for me. You're more likely to hear people droning on about the never-ending golf season than wrestling.

Becky Lynch and Finn Balor are at the top of their industry, are wildly popular, and bust their guts to get there. If you don't like it, that's ok. But just remember when you're sneering from your mind-numbing office job or barstool that they're now stinking rich.

As the wrestler / philosopher Ric Flair once wisely opined: WooooOoooOooO!

Hercule Poirot

YFlyer wrote: »

Wasn't there some public reaction to some event in a British soap years back? Even Tony Blair government got involved. Can't remember the details.

Free the Weatherfield One!

Kermit.de.frog

You can't congratulate a scripted winner OP.

However, I have seen her interviewed and aside from the nonsense of her job she comes across as far more deserving, articulate and intelligent than Conor McGregor with his moronic "sport".

Beechwoodspark

What’s the congratulations for ?

Should we congratulate fair city characters if they win the lotto etc?

No, because it’s not reality. It’s a script.

But in fairness to the lady, well done on being involved in what I understand is a lucrative and successful form of entertainment

Yermande

Professional wrestling has its roots in vaudeville and travelling carnivals and in fact much of the terminology used, i.e. "heel" for the villain or "selling" a move, are carny terms.

For me it was at its absolute best when it embraced that silly heritage. When it began to be pushed as a 'sport' and began appearing on Sky Sports Box Office it lost something of its old magic (even though as an industry and entertainment it was growing exponentially).

Professional wrestling is not 'fake', it's scripted entertainment. Saying it's fake implies that somewhere out there there's a real version involving genuine competition. There isn't. Professional wrestling, as you see it on TV, is real professional wrestling. It is exactly what it's meant to be.

People that compare it to mixed-martial arts or even golf are completely missing the point. Professional wrestling has more in common with the Abbey Theatre than it does with competitive sport.

However the OP is playing into people's prejudices by congratulating a wrestler on their win. You don't congratulate the win, you congratulate the performance. The comedian/actor/director Stephen Merchant, when talking about his recent wrestling themed film Fighting with my Family, said that the real competition is winning over the crowd. The entire thing can be scripted, but ultimately you have to walk out there in front of 80,000 people and deliver an entertaining, highly athletic and extremely dangerous performance. Take a look at Jake 'The Snake' Roberts and the life he's lived and try telling him his career was fake.

I think the WWE is an abhorrent organisation however I'll always have admiration and respect for what the performers do. I personally don't find it entertaining anymore because ultimately it's quite adolescent in tone, but I would never deny the very real hard work it takes to create all of that fiction.

VinLieger

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You can't congratulate a scripted winner OP.

I disagree, also i think theres a disconnect between many people congratulating her and the other people going "durr its fake and scripted".

People congratulating her are doing so in the majority because the fact she won is due to the WWE recognising that storyline would make them a lot of money and they would only do that IF she was incredibly popular with the fans due to her ability as an actress and technical skills in the ring.

People are congratulating her for achieving something that hasn't happened in the history of the WWE, being chosen to be the first female winner of the first female headline match at the top pay per view event of very popular entertainment show watched by millions around the world.

She was chosen to fill that role and 100% should be congratulated for that.

RocketRaccoon

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You can't congratulate a scripted winner OP.

However, I have seen her interviewed and aside from the nonsense of her job she comes across as far more deserving, articulate and intelligent than Conor McGregor with his moronic "sport".

It's very similar to an actor getting an Oscar, they get congratulated despite the fact its all a big fix really.

bucketybuck

Yermande wrote: »

You don't congratulate the win, you congratulate the performance.

I liked the bit in the performance where the two girls were on the top buckle and you could hear them counting down from 3 before doing a move.

Yermande

bucketybuck wrote: »

I liked the bit in the performance where the two girls were on the top buckle and you could hear them counting down from 3 before doing a move.

Before performing the move.

bucketybuck

Yermande wrote: »

Before performing the move.

No, they did the move. They really threw themselves off that top buckle.

The move was fine, it was the performance that was the problem.

Gimme A Pound

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

What’s the congratulations for ?

Should we congratulate fair city characters if they win the lotto etc?

Ah now, there are some stretches on this thread but the above... :pac:

If a Fair City actor got a major role in Game Of Thrones, it would be deserving of a congratulation.

Yeah it is scripted but the work it takes, and the physical condition, are off the scale.

Yermande

bucketybuck wrote: »

No, they did the move. They really threw themselves off that top buckle.

The move was fine, it was the performance that was the problem.

The acting standard of wrestlers is usually on a scale between poor and pantomimic. If you've watched a clip of two wrestlers specifically to critique their acting then you've just wasted your time.

As I said earlier, professional wrestling was better when it was so overblown, and the acting was so outrageous, that it all just clicked together into a well-oiled camp machine.

The fact that you're on her commenting on the acting ability of professional wrestlers just goes to show that even its detractors take it too seriously.

VinLieger

Yermande wrote: »

The acting standard of wrestlers is usually on a scale between poor and pantomimic. If you've watched a clip of two wrestlers specifically to critique their acting then you've just wasted your time.

As I said earlier, professional wrestling was better when it was so overblown, and the acting was so outrageous, that it all just clicked together into a well-oiled camp machine.

The fact that you're on her commenting on the acting ability of professional wrestlers just goes to show that even its detractors take it too seriously.

Its meant to be a pantomime though..... people really bizarrely seem to have a problem with it and i can't understand why. I don't even watch it but can appreciate it takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to get to the level that those currently at the top like Becky Lynch have achieved.


The cognitive dissonance displayed in your post is pretty damn funny though.

You complain about their acting ability and then go on the make the point that anyone complaining about their acting ability is taking it too seriously.....

JohnnyFlash

It is a bit weird that adults follow it though. I presume there’s a strong correlation between following it and also being a fan of Star Wars, wearing combat trousers, comics, computer games, and sporting a neckbeard?

Sabre0001

Yeah, how dare people like a sport / form of entertainment that's predetermined! If only it was a real sport like boxing, soccer, etc. where people won things because of sporting prowess and results weren't arranged...Oh wait.

JohnnyFlash

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Yeah, how dare people like a sport / form of entertainment that's predetermined! If only it was a real sport like boxing, soccer, etc. where people won things because of sporting prowess and results weren't arranged...Oh wait.

Pretty dumb comparison, dude. Match fixing is a criminal activity and a relatively rare occurance. All wrestling is fixed - outcomes are predetermined by management and writers to maximise revenue.

RocketRaccoon

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It is a bit weird that adults follow it though. I presume there’s a strong correlation between following it and also being a fan of Star Wars, wearing combat trousers, comics, computer games, and sporting a neckbeard?

Please try harder.

Necro

JohnnyFlash wrote:

It is a bit weird that adults follow it though. I presume there’s a strong correlation between following it and also being a fan of Star Wars, wearing combat trousers, comics, computer games, and sporting a neckbeard?

It's no weirder than anyone watching any of those reality TV shows tbh.

I dont get the point of them at all but loads of people like them otherwise they wouldn't make so many of the fooking things.

People like different things, oh what a shocker.

That stereotyping you're doing there though, bravo, it probably only exists ironically on some show you've probably watched that's as fake as wrestling but yeah the wrestling fans are the weird ones :rolleyes:

RocketRaccoon

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Pretty dumb comparison, dude. Match fixing is a criminal activity and a relatively rare occurance. All wrestling is fixed - outcomes are predetermined by management and writers to maximise revenue.

I assume judging by this reply, you don't watch any TV shows or movies?

Guy:Incognito

VinLieger wrote: »

Its meant to be a pantomime though..... people really bizarrely seem to have a problem with it and i can't understand why. I don't even watch it but can appreciate it takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to get to the level that those currently at the top like Becky Lynch have achieved.


The cognitive dissonance displayed in your post is pretty damn funny though.

You complain about their acting ability and then go on the make the point that anyone complaining about their acting ability is taking it too seriously.....

Nobody would be detracting from anything if the thread was in the wrestling forum. It's the trying to make it seem like something else and putting it here that's drawing detractors.

Deebles McBeebles

Surely it should be congrats to Vince McMahon, he's the only one making anything out of this.

Sabre0001

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Pretty dumb comparison, dude. Match fixing is a criminal activity and a relatively rare occurance. All wrestling is fixed - outcomes are predetermined by management and writers to maximise revenue.

Exactly. And the audience (young kids aside) are aware of this. It's a play or movie, essentially, with people who are in great physical condition and committed to a craft.

Now, I will say that I don't understand the draw of gambling on it. That is where I would have questions about this hobby.

But as for general enjoyment, to each their own.

EmmetSpiceland

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It is a bit weird that adults follow it though. I presume there’s a strong correlation between following it and also being a fan of Star Wars, wearing combat trousers, comics, computer games, and sporting a neckbeard?

You’ve pretty much described one of the guys from my place who took the day off to a tee, he’d be the leader of the bunch. He’s even got one of those long chin beards, a leather coat that goes down to his ankles, and big black boots. The guy must be around 40 years old!!

One time I overheard them talking about swords, I was about to join the conversation to show them the scars I have on my hands from an accident with a katana blade. Turns out the sword the big, well bigger, guy has is a rubber thing he uses for pretending to be an elf or something.

I kept my katana story to myself.

Yurt2

Lol, katana sword injury. From your time fighting in the Satsuma Rebellion? You probably don't want to talk about it, brings back bad memories.

Cobra Kai all up in the house

Deebles McBeebles

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

You’ve pretty much described one of the guys from my place who took the day off to a tee, he’d be the leader of the bunch. He’s even got one of those long chin beards, a leather coat that goes down to his ankles, and big black boots. The guy must be around 40 years old!!

I think you work with The Undertaker. Explains why he took the day off (he said, hoping The Undertaker is still involved).

Yermande

VinLieger wrote: »

You complain about their acting ability and then go on the make the point that anyone complaining about their acting ability is taking it too seriously.....

I've complained? I've pretty much said that the poorer the acting, the better the show. The dodgy acting combined with the physical routine is the performance. The person I was replying to seemed to focus only on the acting, and if that's why you're watching a wrestling match then yes, you're taking it too seriously, not to mention completely missing the point.

upinsmoke

OP here and congratulating them on winning titles is like congratulating an actor on winning an Oscar. They are at the top of their field and tons of other wrestling promotions out their not a tenth as big as WWE so these wrestlers

Yes it is scripted and is fake but its like been drawing into storylines like any of the soaps or even game of thrones.

More adults than children watch WWE and is huge globally.

Yes everyone knows it's not real like films or TV shows but I find it entertaining.

JohnnyFlash

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Please try harder.

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

Please try harder.

What? Stereotypes exist for a reason. Like you associate rugby guys with Heineken, docker trousers, and strange chanting with the lads they went to boarding school with.

And you associate adult wrestling fans with beards, wallet chains, huge bellies, comically, fantasy fiction, compulsive gaming, and questionable personal hygiene.

RocketRaccoon

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

What? Stereotypes exist for a reason. Like you associate rugby guys with Heineken, docker trousers, and strange chanting with the lads they went to boarding school with.

And you associate adult wrestling fans with beards, wallet chains, huge bellies, comically, fantasy fiction, compulsive gaming, and questionable personal hygiene.

Your son is a wrestling fan isn't he?

EmmetSpiceland

Yurt! wrote: »

Lol, katana sword injury. From your time fighting in the Satsuma Rebellion? You probably don't want to talk about it, brings back bad memories.

Cobra Kai all up in the house

Hahaha, no it wasn’t anything like that! The sword belonged to the father of a friend. We were in his house having cans when the friend showed it to us.

I had the blade resting in my palms weighing it up like I knew about sword balance and all that, which I didn’t. One of the others took the sword by the handle, causing the blade to tilt slightly and drew it across.

Left me with a nice little scar that runs across both my hands and I got grounded for a couple of weeks too.

Relikk

The ending to Becky's match was awful, and for all the hype the match was given in the run up to it, I doubt the crowd's reaction to it was what they were looking for. Fair play to Becky, though. Wrestlers do work hard and she deserves to be at the top due to the amount of time and effort she puts in.

c.p.w.g.w

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Not different from watching Game of Thrones or any other TV show

Exactly. The boss subsequently went home after and watched some mind numbing reality show that evening.

Fusitive

I don't watch wrestling tbh but don't get the hate. The girl achieved a lifelong dream of hers and reached the absolute pinnacle of her chosen proffesion. For some, that's an Olympic gold, a world cup medal, an Oscar or a Tony award or whatever. She's massively famous and is a really good representative of the Irish people and a role model as well.

Why begrudge her getting celebrated in her own Country? It doesn't make sense to me.