Discovery 2x13 'Such Sweet Sorrow' [Spoilers & Theories Within]

pixelburp

I really liked the Enterprise bridge design, a perfect marriage of the original look with modern polish. Maybe a touch too large but otherwise it was spot on. And flourishes like the classic photon torpedo sound added to it.

The episode was otherwise so so to me, not getting the hate TBH. Definitely a part 1 of 2 vibe going on, building up to the cliffhanger, but beyond feeling it all a touch dragged out I thought it was ok. There were better episodes this season, but as table settings go it was fine.

Enjoyed the montage of the crew sending their goodbye messages, little postage stamps that added to the dripfeed of texture for the crew

AMKC

So just watched it and have to say it was very predictable and boring. What a waste of an episode. There was one or two small parts that were good like Georgia telling Pike she was from a mirror universe and the Enterprise bridge was nicer than the ibridge from the latest films but not to hard to do. I thought the part with Micheal's parents on the ship was terrible and had hoped she was at least dreaming it but no they just somehow know where Discovery is board it talk to Micheal and then feck off.
I also found it silly that they did at least use some transporters when evacuating Discovery and take forever to get off it but then when they realised they could not destroy it they were all back on it in 10 seconds.

fritzelly

AMKC wrote: »

I also found it silly that they did at least use some transporters when evacuating Discovery and take forever to get off it but then when they realised they could not destroy it they were all back on it in 10 seconds.

Well they did only take essential crew back - 30 or so?

pixelburp

The 14 episode order always seemed passing strange to me, and this episode gave further suspicion that this was meant to be a 13 episode season but the production team had to, for some reason, stretch the finale to a two parter. Seasons of shows - especially online ones - tend towards 10 or 13 episodes these days and 14 stuck out like an odd number.

fritzelly

And maybe the budget restricted them on this episode as well

Goodshape

I thought it was great!

Enterprise looked fantastic. A few too many lights on the bridge though.

They're actually going to move the whole show into the future?? That could be amazing! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

The speeches and goodbyes did go on a bit but that's nothing new. Was fine – provided that they do actually move the ship now, or kill all these people or something, because if I sat through 20 minutes of weepy farewells for nothing, that would sour the whole episode in retrospect.

Some nice Star Trek roundtable problem solving in there. Don't see enough of that on Discovery. Always good.

I liked that Queen lady from the Short Trek. She's sticking around too?


And really.. wow, Enterprise looked great! Looking forward to next week just to see some more.

liamtech

Goodshape wrote: »

I thought it was great!

Enterprise looked fantastic. A few too many lights on the bridge though.

They're actually going to move the whole show into the future?? That could be amazing! Wasn't expecting that to be honest.

The speeches and goodbyes did go on a bit but that's nothing new. Was fine – provided that they do actually move the ship now, or kill all these people or something, because if I sat through 20 minutes of weepy farewells for nothing, that would sour the whole episode in retrospect.

Some nice Star Trek roundtable problem solving in there. Don't see enough of that on Discovery. Always good.

I liked that Queen lady from the Short Trek. She's sticking around too?


And really.. wow, Enterprise looked great! Looking forward to next week just to see some more.

Please - tell me what your drinking!! I want to love this show!!! I REALLY DO!!!:(

lol -

Ah look i just hope that your right - season one was decent IMHO - and S2 had SOME good outings but not enough - anyway - maybe this was just a filler episode to meet the 14 episode plan - and next weeks will be extraordinary and tie everything up!

And full steam ahead for picards show - !

Im currently decontaminating by continually watching the Star Wars teaser - the emperor might sort everything out if we ask nicely - Long Live Palpatine

corkie

pixelburp wrote: »

The 14 episode order always seemed passing strange to me, and this episode gave further suspicion that this was meant to be a 13 episode season but the production team had to, for some reason, stretch the finale to a two parter. Seasons of shows - especially online ones - tend towards 10 or 13 episodes these days and 14 stuck out like an odd number.

The episode felt like a write off by the script writers not expecting a third season. So alterations to the story to expand in to a third season.

On rewatch, there is some quality moments in the episode. With some filler.

Mixed positive and negative reviews from some youtuber's.

Stark

Definitely some moments I really enjoyed (The Enterprise looked amazing) but yeah, the pacing was far too laborious. The "queen" and Tilly stuff was just as terrible as it was in the "Short Treks". Could easily have done without both. Thought Georgiou was going to do something totally bad-ass at the very end but then Pike winked back at her and that was the end of that.

Slydice

Oh that episode was so GOOD!

The feeling when they showed the Enterprise bridge. I was apprehensive something would feel off but it just felt right. Obviously not the exact same yet something of what I was expecting from the discovery look. That intro scene to it just felt good.

Then they pulled off a variety of bonding scenes showing a bunch of different types of relationships and they did them well. Sarek being very Vulcan was notable.

I'd worried a little it was gonna end on a sad note with some kind of abandonment of Michael to the suit and her future but it ended strong.

Something very Yesterdays Enterprise feeling going on in my head!

History best not forget the name: Enterprise!

seamus

Can't say I loved it tbh. It did feel like just a long build up to what we want to see, but then we have to wait till next week.

As others have said, Spock being on Discovery basically removes any chance of this "time jump" being a thing, and leads me more towards "Calypso" being an epilogue of the next episode, basically revealing what happens next.

Beautiful visuals is about all the episode had going for it, not exactly one you'd have any need to rewatch in future.

AllForIt

For me that was the worst episode of disco so far.

Way way too much mushy emotion and lack of story development. I actually fast forwarded some of the scenes when I twigged how they were going.

I have to say again as this is the biggest gripe I have with the show and that is that the personality types of a few of the crew (not only Tilly) are totally inappropriate for the role they fill.

Goodshape

seamus wrote: »

As others have said, Spock being on Discovery basically removes any chance of this "time jump" being a thing

I wouldn't say it removes any chance. Just as likely he's onboard *now* so we can yet another and an even bigger goodbye next week when he decides or realises he can't go with them. Or so Burnham can make one more painful personal sacrifice by forcing him to stay.

Or, he does go with them and it's just a sign that he'll get back sometime in the next 8 years or so. That'd be a bit annoying though.

Plenty of possibilities anyway.

helimachoptor

Really liked Pike leaving. Seemed really genuine.
Couldn't care about Burnham tbh.

Enterprise looked awesome. Enough colour to make it looked much better than JJs Bridge imo.

Johnny Storm

I agree with many of the points already made, it was really clunky and boring. Sareks shuttle is way faster than section 31 ships?.... OK maybe he left earlier.
I thought some of the goodbye stuff wasn't too bad... But there was too much of it.
My other gripes:-
- the music when we first see the E was way over the top.
- in recent eps when 2 ships are close together they are not shown in the same plane - after years of that convention it now looks like careless parking.... I know that's very nit-picky...
- OK, who IS the feckin captain, then FFS???
- next weeks ep better be a cracker!

pixelburp

pixelburp wrote: »

I really liked the Enterprise bridge design, a perfect marriage of the original look with modern polish. Maybe a touch too large but otherwise it was spot on. And flourishes like the classic photon torpedo sound added to it.

The episode was otherwise so so to me, not getting the hate TBH. Definitely a part 1 of 2 vibe going on, building up to the cliffhanger, but beyond feeling it all a touch dragged out I thought it was ok. There were better episodes this season, but as table settings go it was fine.

Enjoyed the montage of the crew sending their goodbye messages, little postage stamps that added to the dripfeed of texture for the crew

The episode was 30 minutes too long, with far too much melodrama.
So much filler, I was bored a lot of the time. It felt like how Potter, HungerGames, Hobbit did when stretching out of the material to get more films in.

Enterprise is awesome though. I'd love a Pike prequel.

Sad Professor

I don't know what to make of this show anymore. I'm just watching with bemusement every week.

CramCycle

Johnny Storm wrote: »

I agree with many of the points already made, it was really clunky and boring.

Very clunky. Like trying to start a car which is running on fumes.

Sareks shuttle is way faster than section 31 ships?.... OK maybe he left earlier.

He wasn't there, it was that kind meld from a distance thing.

pixelburp

CramCycle wrote: »

Very clunky. Like trying to start a car which is running on fumes.
He wasn't there, it was that kind meld from a distance thing.

No he was there, we got a shot of a Vulcan shuttle zooming away from Discovery. Space is big, it's not like Sarek couldn't have approached Discovery from a different point in space to the one Enterprise / section 31 was coming from. It was narratively convenient but didn't seem unrealistic either

One major thing, Martin-Greene is not a voice actor, she can not do voice over or read a monologue

Drumpot

What’s with the lighting of this show? Every so often there is some sort of light from flicker , as if it’s the reflection of some distant light or something!

AllForIt

CramCycle wrote: »

Very clunky. Like trying to start a car which is running on fumes.
He wasn't there, it was that kind meld from a distance thing.

That's what I though too but wasn't bothered to ascertain whether that was really the case. Seeing Sarek getting a little emotional distracted me from that issue.

CramCycle

pixelburp wrote: »

No he was there, we got a shot of a Vulcan shuttle zooming away from Discovery. Space is big, it's not like Sarek couldn't have approached Discovery from a different point in space to the one Enterprise / section 31 was coming from. It was narratively convenient but didn't seem unrealistic either

Narratively it was pointless and unrealistic. He's an ambassador, who flies too a ship which is about to come.under attack, they can't communicate with Starfleet. I rally thought it was the mind to mind communication as it was the only way that made sense. 8n fact all their faffing about while waiting for the fight was just jarring and made no sense, them actually being there makes even less sense.

Can we agree that Anson Mount leaving is a bad thing, at least?

Wonder if this petition will go anywhere?
https://www.change.org/p/star-trek-fans-cbs-give-us-a-pre-tos-star-trek-series-w-captain-pike-struggle-is-pointless

helimachoptor

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can we agree that Anson Mount leaving is a bad thing, at least?

Wonder if this petition will go anywhere?
https://www.change.org/p/star-trek-fans-cbs-give-us-a-pre-tos-star-trek-series-w-captain-pike-struggle-is-pointless

He's made the show me for me.

Him and lorca have been great.

alchemist33

I had no idea who the queen was but after about 15 seconds I knew I never wanted to see her again. It's Tilly part II but with authority.

I've also figured a way out for them. The display showed Discovery surrounded by control ships but only IN ONE PLANE! Just go up people, go up!

CastorTroy

I did laugh at Georgiou's reesponse when she was told her idea would kill billions. As if she was sayng "Well Duh!"

Stark

Goodshape wrote: »

Or, he does go with them and it's just a sign that he'll get back sometime in the next 8 years or so. That'd be a bit annoying though.

There's nothing in all Spock's appearances in other canon to suggest that he was ever 1000 years in the future. But then there was nothing to suggest he had a sister either so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You'd think if he was here he would know about events like the destruction of Romulus well in advance. Who knows, maybe he did and that's why he was the one doing the solo mission to try to save Romulus.

Seems like a lot of loose ends to wrap up in next episode. One thing I've noticed is that Sarek and Spock seem to be on relatively good terms this season. Okay a little bit distant and awkward but the sort of distant and awkward where you still visit at Christmas. Not like the antagonism seen when Sarek arrived on the Enterprise in TOS and they wouldn't even acknowledge each other. I wonder if something will happen in the finale that shatters their relationship. Maybe Sarek decides at the last minute that he can't lose two children and stops Spock from going, sacrificing Michael in the process?

I also thought we might find out why Pike signed a general order for the death penalty for visiting Talos IV by now. Seeing as the death penalty goes against everything Pike, Starfleet, the Federation stands for, it would have to be some significant reason. At this point, I think the only tihng that would warrant it is if the Talosians became custodians of the Sphere data, meaning visiting Talos IV could threaten all life in the universe. That conflicts with sending Discovery to the future to get rid of it though. I guess we still need a resolution to what happens to Control as well. Even if they get rid of the Sphere data, Control is still plenty powerful to do significant damage to the Federation as is. Perhaps there is a tie-in there somehow.

corkie

seamus wrote: »

As others have said, Spock being on Discovery basically removes any chance of this "time jump" being a thing, and leads me more towards "Calypso" being an epilogue of the next episode, basically revealing what happens next.

Spoiler on this because it is a theory based on the Preview Clip for next week, but could resolve the Spock situation: -

He is seen flying a shuttle craft to protect Micheal, so could get left behind when discovery jumps to the future.

And for those who hate her, the final will probably feature allot of Micheal in the suit and her time travels, to place the Signals etc. <<< Probably more than half of the episode.

Removing the Sphere data, still leaves Control AI causing havoc in present time. So will be interesting to see how that is resolved.

And whatever timeline canon issues are yet to be resolved?

GSPfan

I’m just watching this episode now but the modern design of the old Enterprise bridge is absolutely brilliant. It’s exactly how it should have been done imo.