Scope too high. Help

kay 9

After some advice all, Tikka t3x lite, tier one rail, 1.25" xtr signature rings. Have 3/4" clearance which is way too much.
Rings are supposed to be medium but more like a mega high setup.
Can't see low xtr rings making much of a difference?
Advise and suggestions welcome.

cookimonster

The problem is the rail, it's adding the unnecessary height.
Look at the base of the rail ( the upper side with the slots) and you can see that the rings are perfect height to give you clearance from the horizontal plain of the base. So imagine if your base was the actual reciever of the rifle your scope would be sitting fairly low on the rifle.

I had a tier one rail on my rifle with medium rings and I was able to mount a big old 8x56 S&B nice and low. Medium rings would not normally accomadate a 56mm scope.

I had the same issue the first time dealing with a rail. I purchased a 3-9 x 56 scope, suitable rings but never factored in the rail height. I ended up adding a riser onto the stock. This time around I was more careful.
So when you considering your ring hieght you have to factor in the mount height of bases and rails.

cookimonster

http://www.mil-rad.com/scope_ring_calculator

Handy one to get an idea of what's happening.

lefthooker

I agree with cookie, your rail is very high, a lot higher than a standard tikka rail.

For a 50mm scope you need a minimum 14mm between the receiver and scope tube to clear a varmint barrel, and your rail is contributing most of that.

If the xtr rings are high, going low will shave 13mm off your height. Personally I’d ditch them, they’re overkill and ugly as hell. Recknagel or Tier One would be a better option IMO

zeissman

That rail is very high. The tikka rails like the ones that come on the supervarmint and CTR rifles are a lot lower.
My CTR has the rail and Burris xtr signature 1 inch low rings with my Zeiss 5-25x50 scope and it's perfect.

cookimonster

By the way is that a 20 MOA rail and if so will your scope dial out that far to compensate for the 20MOA.
The orginal rail on my other rifle was 20MOA and the 8x56 S&B didn't have enough elevation to be able to dial out the difference.
With the elevation wound right out I was at least 12 or more inches high at 100 yards. Absoultlly fecking useless for conventional shooting ranges and a zero of about 225 yards.

Cass

In this thread i mentioned how to match your rail/rings tot he rifle in terms of getting the right height.

To pick the rings you need to measure the height off the barrel needed.

Usually what i do is;

• Take the diameter of the objective lense, in this case 50mm.
• Add 3mm for the width of the housing (twice as its circular) and 4mm for the minimum height off the barrel.
• That gives 60mm.
• Split that which gives our height from the barrel to the centre line of the scope tube. So 30mm.
• Now measure the height of the rail/base (if you have one). If not skip this part.
• Say its 7mm.
• Take the 7mm from the 30 mm leaving you with 23mm and thats the height of the rings you need.

Once you have this number you simply need to find out how the manufacturer measures their rings.

For example some measure their's from the base of the ring (the flat piece that sits on the rail/receiver) to the bottom of the curve (where the tube sits). Measurement B in the picture.

Some measure from the base of the ring to the centre of the ring diameter (centre line of the tube if you will). Measurement A in the picture.

Of course you might find some measure from the part of the ring that sits on the rail/receiver to the bottom of the curve.


Once you have the height you need and find out how the manufacturer measures their rings then you pick the right height for you from that manufacturer. Measurement C in the picture

The problem you have is the rail is higher than the standard 7mm most rails are, especially for 0 moa, and with the higher receiver of the Tikka coupled with higher rings you have too much height. You need to do one of two things now.

A) Get rid of the rail altogether and buy new rings to match directly to the receiver (as i believe Tikka have dedicated rings)
Change the rings, but keep the rail and go for low rings which as said above will shave up to half an inch of the ring height and give you perfect clearance.

To be 100% sure of the change in height for the rings measure from the underside of the bell housing of the scope to the top of the barrel. Say it's 18mm. Take off about 3 to 4 mm for the amount of clearance you want. That leaves 14-15mm you need to shave.

If you're using the same brand of rings then find out what height the ones you have are and then check the lower height ones until you find the height you need. Either change/exchange them with the RFD or buy a new set of the height you need.

Lastly i done a quick check. Burris do those rings in low, medium and high. There is half a quarter difference between each height, but if you have 1.25" rings they seem to be the medium ones as 1.5" are marked as high. So buying low rings may only gain you back half an inch or 6mm. IOW it'll drop the scope but not by much or not as much as you'd want.

lefthooker

What height is the rail? Finding that out and if there’s angle built in should be the first steps.

Can you return what doesn’t work for you? If so you could,

1) exchange the rings for the lowest possible rings you can get.

2) exchange the rings and rail for a lower rail and suitable rings. This would allow using medium height rings, a bigger selection.

3) return the rings and rail for tikka optilocks and low rings.

kay 9

cookimonster wrote: »

By the way is that a 20 MOA rail and if so will your scope dial out that far to compensate for the 20MOA.
The orginal rail on my other rifle was 20MOA and the 8x56 S&B didn't have enough elevation to be able to dial out the difference.
With the elevation wound right out I was at least 12 or more inches high at 100 yards. Absoultlly fecking useless for conventional shooting ranges and a zero of about 225 yards.

Omoa rail mate.

kay 9

lefthooker wrote: »

What height is the rail? Finding that out and if there’s angle built in should be the first steps.

Can you return what doesn’t work for you? If so you could,

1) exchange the rings for the lowest possible rings you can get.

2) exchange the rings and rail for a lower rail and suitable rings. This would allow using medium height rings, a bigger selection.

3) return the rings and rail for tikka optilocks and low rings.

I ordered Warne Maxima low rings last night. They're a tidier looking ring as well

kay 9

Cass wrote: »

In this thread i mentioned how to match your rail/rings tot he rifle in terms of getting the right height.



The problem you have is the rail is higher than the standard 7mm most rails are, especially for 0 moa, and with the higher receiver of the Tikka coupled with higher rings you have too much height. You need to do one of two things now.

A) Get rid of the rail altogether and buy new rings to match directly to the receiver (as i believe Tikka have dedicated rings)
Change the rings, but keep the rail and go for low rings which as said above will shave up to half an inch of the ring height and give you perfect clearance.

To be 100% sure of the change in height for the rings measure from the underside of the bell housing of the scope to the top of the barrel. Say it's 18mm. Take off about 3 to 4 mm for the amount of clearance you want. That leaves 14-15mm you need to shave.

If you're using the same brand of rings then find out what height the ones you have are and then check the lower height ones until you find the height you need. Either change/exchange them with the RFD or buy a new set of the height you need.

Lastly i done a quick check. Burris do those rings in low, medium and high. There is half a quarter difference between each height, but if you have 1.25" rings they seem to be the medium ones as 1.5" are marked as high. So buying low rings may only gain you back half an inch or 6mm. IOW it'll drop the scope but not by much or not as much as you'd want.

Cheers Cass. Ordered Warne Maxima which should get me down 10mm+ if I'm right

kay 9

The Warne maxima

kay 9

Having second thoughts about using the rail at all tbh. Optilock setup doesn't get great reviews though

kay 9

Have Warne permanent rings ordered as well as useability is more imports than looks.
Will just use the tikka base if needs be

Cass

kay 9 wrote: »

Having second thoughts about using the rail at all tbh. Optilock setup doesn't get great reviews though

I've never liked the Opitiloc rings. Even the price is ridiculous. Over €220 when the likes of Warne, Burris, etc. do the exact same job without the overly fussy locking system (ring to base).

The problem i've found with the couple of sets i've used are the base screw for the ring to the base can come loose. Normally this alone is a PITA, but i've had and seen cases where the screw has loosened, but not enough to notice until you fire the rifle. At which point the POI shifts, but when you check the scope and rings they seem tight even to the touch.

It's not until you remove the scope do you know the rings are loose in the base.

kay 9

Cass wrote: »

I've never liked the Opitiloc rings. Even the price is ridiculous. Over €220 when the likes of Warne, Burris, etc. do the exact same job without the overly fussy locking system (ring to base).

The problem i've found with the couple of sets i've used are the base screw for the ring to the base can come loose. Normally this alone is a PITA, but i've had and seen cases where the screw has loosened, but not enough to notice until you fire the rifle. At which point the POI shifts, but when you check the scope and rings they seem tight even to the touch.

It's not until you remove the scope do you know the rings are loose in the base.

Good to see someone here verifying the fault with those optilock bases. Don't like the way they have to centred as well.

zeissman

kay 9 wrote: »

Good to see someone here verifying the fault with those optilock bases. Don't like the way they have to centred as well.

I don't like them either. I had 2 mates who had the same problem with the ring to base screw coming loose and the rifle losing zero.
The opti-lok ring mounts are ok as they are a one piece unit but they can be hard to get.

Bordglas

I use Loctite 263 on the base screw. Requires heat to break the bond otherwise screw head will shear off when attempting to open. I don't use it on the ring screws but I do check them regularly for tightness.I agree that they are over priced but I guess I was influenced by the marketing moguls. Never had a problem with Warne mounts on a Tikka without a pic rail.

kay 9

Bordglas wrote: »

I use Loctite 263 on the base screw. Requires heat to break the bond otherwise screw head will shear off when attempting to open. I don't use it on the ring screws but I do check them regularly for tightness.I agree that they are over priced but I guess I was influenced by the marketing moguls. Never had a problem with Warne mounts on a Tikka without a pic rail.

I'll probably use the 242/blue thread locker as it's not as stubborn to loosen in future.
Can't wait to get this rig up and running at last.

Bordglas

Best of luck and thanks to you and Cass I am going to check all my mounts tomorrow to ensure they are okay.

jb88

I have a few Burris Signature XTR Mounts they are excellent, which come with inserts and even with a 20moa rail I can use the inserts to get whatever Zero at any range. Have you tried swapping around the inserts a bit to achieve the desired result.

kay 9

jb88 wrote: »

I have a few Burris Signature XTR Mounts they are excellent, which come with inserts and even with a 20moa rail I can use the inserts to get whatever Zero at any range. Have you tried swapping around the inserts a bit to achieve the desired result.

I didn't as the height needed to come down vastly.
I'll keep them in the kit box for now though. May get use for them or Sm1 may be looking for a set sometime

kay 9

Sorted. Took off the rail altogether.

Cass

Nice.