RTE documentary and the wrath of God

joe40

Just reading through this thread and I must admit it is informative.
I had no idea people holding some of the views expressed here actually exist.

They sound like caricatures from a horror movie.

The wrath of god causing the famine... such nonsense.

Where is the love and forgiveness in your religion? I'm not particularly religious now, but the religion and the God I was taught about bears no resemblance to the vengeful God some on this thread believe in.

amcalester

I don't know about anyone else, but I am looking forward to realitykeeper's next thread. They are always...interesting.

Franz Von Peppercorn

One thing that struck me was how selective God’s wrath was in the pre famine era. A dispossessed peasantry not going to mass upsets him, the Atlantic slave trade not so much. I suppose the British were more church going at the time.

realitykeeper

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The OP , Realitykeeper started a thread about corporal punishment in schools inviting those who experienced it to relay their experience. When people did he proceeded to sneer and call them liars even to go as far as to suggest victims of abuse were only seeking money. A vile more nasty poster I have not encountered anywhere else on this site. He/she was banned for that behaviour from the After Hours forum and rightly so.

Not at all. I only referred to liars as liars and again I say it is truthful to say so. The liars know who they are as does the Almighty. You seem to be confusing the telling the truth with sneering. As for being banned, I delight in being persecuted by sinners when defending God and his Church.

realitykeeper

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Wouldn’t need faith if that happened.

Prophesies have been made yet faith is necessary.

Zaph

You seem to have conveniently ignored my questions, so I'm going to ask them again:

what I really want to know is why ultra-religious people are so obsessed the sex lives of others? Are they doing you any harm personally?

realitykeeper

joe40 wrote: »

Just reading through this thread and I must admit it is informative.
I had no idea people holding some of the views expressed here actually exist.

They sound like caricatures from a horror movie.

The wrath of god causing the famine... such nonsense.

Where is the love and forgiveness in your religion? I'm not particularly religious now, but the religion and the God I was taught about bears no resemblance to the vengeful God some on this thread believe in.

That is not how I see it. The after life is infinitely more than this life and souls are in danger of eternal damnation. How could the wrath of God be anything other than an act of love. Jonah rejoiced at his chastisement upon realizing his misfortune was punishment for his sinful ways. A child may not understand the necessity of bitter medicine yet such remedies are administered with love.

10fathoms

10fathoms wrote: »

Have I somehow wandered into the 19th century??

Nope just the off the meds thread.

_CreeD_

realitykeeper wrote: »

Child abuse is rife.

...Within the church you venerate.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

That is not how I see it. The after life is infinitely more than this life and souls are in danger of eternal damnation. How could the wrath of God be anything other than an act of love. Jonah rejoiced at his chastisement upon realizing his misfortune was punishment for his sinful ways. A child may not understand the necessity of bitter medicine yet such remedies are administered with love.

The last part sounds very much like the excuses given for the abuse of children and women in the institutions run by the church and how the sexual and physical abuse they received was their own fault and the abusers where just showing them God's love.

harrylittle

harrylittle wrote: »

The wrath of God is not yet here because if he did many souls would go to hell.

The great warning will come first as part of the 3 days of darkness and every soul will be shown their sin and given a chance to repent and change their ways .

However once the warning passes then gods judgements will begin.

Three days of darkness, anyone in places like Nunavut, must be crapping themselves every year then.

realitykeeper

DubInMeath wrote: »

The last part sounds very much like the excuses given for the abuse of children and women in the institutions run by the church and how the sexual and physical abuse they received was their own fault and the abusers where just showing them God's love.

This is a common mistake you and so many others make. You see, Priests, Brothers and Nuns are sinners and God is blameless. As such, God`s Church is good despite the sins of the clergy.

amcalester

realitykeeper wrote: »

This is a common mistake you and so many others make. You see, Priests, Brothers and Nuns are sinners and God is blameless. As such, God`s Church is good despite the sins of the clergy.

Teflon god.

Cabaal

realitykeeper wrote: »

There is little sign of chastity in Ireland these days. Sodomite`s roam through the streets flaunting their proclivities shamelessly..

Honestly, I have to ask.
What is it with many religious people obsession with anal sex and gay men?

You always ignore lesbians, what's with that? Does scissoring and stuff not offend you and your god?

Also, many non gay people engage in anal sex. Many of those got married in a Catholic church too.


Also, on the subject of chastity, you do know that in the USA especially anal sex before marriage by Christians is fairly common.

In fact it's known as God's loop hole...because it technically means the person is still a virgin.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

This is a common mistake you and so many others make. You see, Priests, Brothers and Nuns are sinners and God is blameless. As such, God`s Church is good despite the sins of the clergy.

Nope it's an excuse you and others like you make to try and defend your support for the church and their actions from the top down.

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

Honestly, I have to ask.
What is it with many religious people obsession with anal sex and gay men?

You always ignore lesbians, what's with that? Does scissoring and stuff not offend you and your god?

Also, many non gay people engage in anal sex. Many of those got married in a Catholic church too.


Also, on the subject of chastity, you do know that in the USA especially anal sex before marriage by Christians is fairly common.

In fact it's known as God's loop hole...because it technically means the person is still a virgin.

The only person I ever heard go on about sodomy as much was Paisley..

Also this just reminded me of the loop hole song.

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

Not at all. I only referred to liars as liars and again I say it is truthful to say so. The liars know who they are as does the Almighty. You seem to be confusing the telling the truth with sneering. As for being banned, I delight in being persecuted by sinners when defending God and his Church.

Sneering abuse victims is an affront to the god you pretend to defend.

Tired Gardener

AtomicHorror wrote: »

"Incessantly".

Dying... thank you for this.

I had best stock up on beans if that is the requirement.

realitykeeper

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Sneering abuse victims is an affront to the god you pretend to defend.

By saying I pretend to defend God, you are calling me a liar and that makes you wrong and a hypocrite. It is correct to say sneering abuse victims is an affront to God which is why I would never do that. Pointing out that people who pretend to have been abused are liars is simply an exercise in truth.

Franz Von Peppercorn

realitykeeper wrote: »

By saying I pretend to defend God, you are calling me a liar and that makes you wrong and a hypocrite. It is correct to say sneering abuse victims is an affront to God which is why I would never do that. Pointing out that people who pretend to have been abused are liars is simply an exercise in truth.

The distinction between sneering at abuse victims and sneering at people you think are making it up is in your head. All abuse victims can do is tell their story.

Par for the course for a man who not only blamed a powerless peasantry for the famine but also God. Your God is a reflection of your own pathology.

If he exists I hope the first thing he says to you when you die is “How dare you accuse me of being a genocidal maniac” and sends you to the firy pits of hell.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Zaph wrote: »

You seem to have conveniently ignored my questions, so I'm going to ask them again:

what I really want to know is why ultra-religious people are so obsessed the sex lives of others? Are they doing you any harm personally?

He's conveniently ignoring everyone's questions.

BloodBath

realitykeeper wrote: »

Certainly the world is due a comeuppance, parts of it moreso than others.

You are due a comeuppance for posting such crap. Try using the internet to educate yourself instead of posting such nonsense.

Bannasidhe wrote: »

There was a famine in the mainly Presbyterian Scottish Highlands at the exact same time as in Ireland caused by the exact same thing -over reliance on the lumper potato which developed blight.

Wonder what was God wrathing about there?

That was not the cause of the famine. I'm sick of hearing this from ignorant people. The cause of the famine was the English exporting over 90% of the food produced in Ireland to England. We had a wide variety of crops and farmed animals. We were not reliant on potatoes. They took the food while the peasants starved. That is the reality of the famine.

Meanwhile they teach us that "sure jaysus, poor aul paddy couldn't even grow some potatoes properly." The Irish education system has a lot to answer for.

realitykeeper wrote: »

By saying I pretend to defend God, you are calling me a liar and that makes you wrong and a hypocrite. It is correct to say sneering abuse victims is an affront to God which is why I would never do that. Pointing out that people who pretend to have been abused are liars is simply an exercise in truth.

Wow! I suppose the 800 babies in a septic tank in Tuam are pretending to be dead as well you ignorant fool. If there is a god and hell you are definitely going to hell along with the nuns are priests that you worship.

realitykeeper

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The distinction between sneering at abuse victims and sneering at people you think are making it up is in your head. All abuse victims can do is tell their story.

We are talking about different things. You are talking about abuse victims and I am talking about people who falsely claim to be abuse victims but who are in fact liars.

realitykeeper

BloodBath wrote: »

Wow! I suppose the 800 babies in a septic tank in Tuam are pretending to be dead as well you ignorant fool. If there is a god and hell you are definitely going to hell along with the nuns are priests that you worship.

Children die and people lie (especially people with an agenda).

Dravokivich

What's with this perversion towards doom?

BloodBath wrote: »

That was not the cause of the famine. I'm sick of hearing this from ignorant people. The cause of the famine was the English exporting over 90% of the food produced in Ireland to England. We had a wide variety of crops and farmed animals. We were not reliant on potatoes. They took the food while the peasants starved. That is the reality of the famine.

Meanwhile they teach us that "sure jaysus, poor aul paddy couldn't even grow some potatoes properly." The Irish education system has a lot to answer for.
.

It doesn't matter what's being produced or its quantity if it's not something that can be afforded by those who need it. That's what's meant by the over reliance on the potatoes, it's all people could afford.

BloodBath

realitykeeper wrote: »

Children die and people lie (especially people with an agenda).

Not going to bother arguing with you. You're a lost cause.

Dravokivich wrote: »

What's with this perversion towards doom?


It doesn't matter what's being produced or its quantity if it's not something that can be afforded by those who need it. That's what's meant by the over reliance on the potatoes, it's all people could afford.

Why could they not afford anything? Nothing to do with British rule was it? Don't try and offload the blame to economics.

The Brits knew people were starving and did feck all to help. But it's ok. They had lots of cheap beef to eat in England thanks to poor aul paddy. Wake the F up. The British empire are responsible for the deaths and suffering of millions of people. They comitted genocide everywhere they went. A lot like the RCC.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

Children die and people lie (especially people with an agenda).

The only person with an agenda here is you, and this post among most of the out right crap you spout shows just what an evil twisted cowardly little prick you are.

Dravokivich

BloodBath wrote: »

Not going to bother arguing with you. You're a lost cause.



Why could they not afford anything? Nothing to do with British rule was it? Don't try and offload the blame to economics.

The Brits knew people were starving and did feck all to help. But it's ok. They had lots of cheap beef to eat in England thanks to poor aul paddy. Wake the F up.

Its becuase in the market they were poor. The only political gain from it, is to have the masses subservient through lower economic means and that wasnt solely a British thing. There has always been peasantry the world over and remains to be, to this day. The charity which you are looking for, has consistently been a private matter rather than state/public one.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

realitykeeper wrote: »

Children die and people lie (especially people with an agenda).

I do believe you've answered your own question her an dthread has gone fuyll circle.

realitykeeper wrote: »

If the loose morals were a prelude to famine, then what does the future hold in these days of Sodom and Gormorrah? I fear the wrath of God is about to decend on Ireland more forcefully than ever.

Am I wrong?

You are. Children just die. It happens.

Next thread please.

realitykeeper

Dravokivich wrote: »

What's with this perversion towards doom?




It doesn't matter what's being produced or its quantity if it's not something that can be afforded by those who need it. That's what's meant by the over reliance on the potatoes, it's all people could afford.

90% of the land was "owned" by 10% of the people (the fact that it was taken by conquest means it was in fact stolen.) Anyway, the German`s are blamed for genocide in Namibia for keeping 30,000 people from water so surely the English are guilty of genocide for keeping millions of people from food produced on their own stolen land.

realitykeeper

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I do believe you've answered your own question her an dthread has gone fuyll circle.



You are. Children just die. It happens.

Next thread please.

Ah but we are talking about people dying in great numbers. 800 kids (some of whom died in childbirth) out of tens of thousands over several decades is probably a lot better than the national average when measles, polio and general poverty were a problem. Thank God for the laundries! I would be a great believer in bringing back the workhouses instead of all this social housing but importantly it is not the homeless I would put in there, it is the people living in properties for ten years while the taxpayer is stuck with the mess they caused by defaulting.

I say give the homeless the properties of the defaulters and put the defaulters in the laundries.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

realitykeeper wrote: »

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

I do believe you've answered your own question her an dthread has gone fuyll circle.



You are. Children just die. It happens.

Next thread please.

Ah but we are talking about people dying in great numbers. 800 kids (some of whom died in childbirth) out of tens of thousands over several decades is probably a lot better than the national average when measles, polio and general poverty were a problem. Thank God for the laundries! I would be a great believer in bringing back the workhouses instead of all this social housing but importantly it is not the homeless I would put in there, it is the people living in properties for ten years while the taxpayer is stuck with the mess they caused by defaulting.

I say give the homeless the properties of the defaulters and put the defaulters in the laundries.

Not relevant. People die. Nothing to do with the wrath of God

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

Ah but we are talking about people dying in great numbers. 800 kids (some of whom died in childbirth) out of tens of thousands over several decades is probably a lot better than the national average when measles, polio and general poverty were a problem. Thank God for the laundries! I would be a great believer in bringing back the workhouses instead of all this social housing but importantly it is not the homeless I would put in there, it is the people living in properties for ten years while the taxpayer is stuck with the mess they caused by defaulting.

You are the prefect example of all that is wrong with organised religion. Zero empathy for the victims of the church.

realitykeeper

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Not relevant. People die. Nothing to do with the wrath of God

Sure it is, potentially at least.

realitykeeper

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You are the prefect example of all that is wrong with organised religion. Zero empathy for the victims of the church.

Au contraire, I sympathize with all victims of anything. I just don`t blame all child abuse on the Church and I recognize the good the church has done. Also, I suspect a lot of the vitriol against the church has nothing to do with child abuse, it has more to do with mass encroaching on playtime in childhood and Sunday morning lie ins in adulthood. So much more convenient to blame the church for everything and forget the deadly sin of sloth.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

realitykeeper wrote: »

Sure it is, potentially at least.

/ thread.

Plumbthedepths

realitykeeper wrote:

Au contraire, I sympathize with all victims of anything. I just don`t blame all child abuse on the Church and I recognize the good the church has done. Also, I suspect a lot of the vitriol against the church has nothing to do with child abuse, it has more to do with mass encroaching on playtime in childhood and Sunday morning lie ins in adulthood. So much more convenient to blame the church for everything and forget the deadly sin of sloth.

Your user name is an oxymoron, the rape murder and abuse of children and subsequent cover ups is what has caused such vitriol towards the church. Your post is incredibly idiotic tbh.

realitykeeper

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Your user name is an oxymoron, the rape murder and abuse of children and subsequent cover ups is what has caused such vitriol towards the church. Your post is incredibly idiotic tbh.

With respect, the rape and abuse of children is a daily reality today in this country, not by arthritic octogenarian priests in their declining years but by secular perverts online and in their own homes. As for cover ups, right so all those who go around abusing children just come straight out and admit it. Time and again we here of wives who cover up for their husbands/partner and even lie in court to protect them so as not to rock the boat. The capacity of secular society for outright hypocrisy really is jaw dropping.

Cabaal

realitykeeper wrote: »

With respect, the rape and abuse of children is a daily reality today in this country, not by arthritic octogenarian priests in their declining years but by secular perverts online and in their own homes. As for cover ups, right so all those who go around abusing children just come straight out and admit it. Time and again we here of wives who cover up for their husbands/partner and even lie in court to protect them so as not to rock the boat. The capacity of secular society for outright hypocrisy really is jaw dropping.

Ignoring the bigger issue.
Abuse within familys does happen alright, but that abuse is very limited.

If we look at the Catholic church's abuses we see a pattern of saving the church at the cost of the victim, the priest or nun abuses and is merely moved to another area to abuse even more. This doesn't happen in familys.

Through the actions of the church online with Vatican rules inline with what they no doubt thought was gods will (protecting the church). So while a father might abuse one child a priest could abuse 20 or 30.

When it comes to the catholic church, power and money took priority over
- The safety of children
- The safety of women
- Keeping records of where they dumped the bodys of children they believed didn't deserve a proper burial

You talk about a husband or wife lieing, lets talk about the high up representitives from the Vatican coming over to Ireland and telling abuse victims they were "only in it for the money" A pathetic organisation

I've been lucky enough to not have been touched by the abusive hands of a nun, priest or brother. But I know of many that have been and its pain they've carried for decades.

Perhaps the words of a victim will mean something more to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iQGczIx6Sg

10fathoms

realitykeeper wrote: »

With respect, the rape and abuse of children is a daily reality today in this country, not by arthritic octogenarian priests in their declining years but by secular perverts online and in their own homes. As for cover ups, right so all those who go around abusing children just come straight out and admit it. Time and again we here of wives who cover up for their husbands/partner and even lie in court to protect them so as not to rock the boat. The capacity of secular society for outright hypocrisy really is jaw dropping.

Are you saying abuse is now ONLY carried out by "secular" perverts?

Zaph

realitykeeper wrote: »

With respect, the rape and abuse of children is a daily reality today in this country, not by arthritic octogenarian priests in their declining years but by secular perverts online and in their own homes.

Just as it was a daily reality for some kids at a time when the priests weren't octogenarians. Just because it still goes on, whether it's by lay people or clergy, doesn't excuse the crimes of the past. Your continued efforts to deflect from what actually happened to many children at the hands of clergy is simply a continuation of the church's policy of denial and cover-ups. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

The Talking Bread

realitykeeper wrote: »

Children die and people lie (especially people with an agenda).

You are a sick individual.

And we are supposed to defend this so called man in the sky and what he represents with attitudes of followers like you.



.

Hotblack Desiato

realitykeeper wrote: »

Ah but we are talking about people dying in great numbers. 800 kids (some of whom died in childbirth)

If they were giving birth they were women, not kids, the women's deaths were recorded separately. The 800 refers to unaccounted for burials of dead children and babies in only one mother and baby home out of many.

out of tens of thousands over several decades is probably a lot better than the national average when measles, polio and general poverty were a problem.

"Probably" you say - well you're wrong, the actual figures show that child mortality in the so-called "homes" was significantly worse than the national average, and similar to the very worst of the tenement slums where the poorest of the poor lived - malnourished, underheated, crammed a dozen or more to a room and no access to medical care.

Yet the nuns had plenty of funds - money from the council for the board and care of the women and babies; money extracted from the woman's family - if she had one, and they had money; money from illegally stealing and selling babies.

What were they doing with all this money, which was supposed to be spent on the care of these women and children?

realitykeeper

Zaph wrote: »

Just as it was a daily reality for some kids at a time when the priests weren't octogenarians. Just because it still goes on, whether it's by lay people or clergy, doesn't excuse the crimes of the past. Your continued efforts to deflect from what actually happened to many children at the hands of clergy is simply a continuation of the church's policy of denial and cover-ups. You really should be ashamed of yourself.

The "reality" is subjective because as we know, many of these accusers have been caught out in lies and the "kids" are in fact adults, many of whom are only alleging abuse in order in get money.

realitykeeper

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You are a sick individual.

And we are supposed to defend this so called man in the sky and what he represents with attitudes of followers like you.



.

I do not worship myself and Catholics worship God, not priests. As for being "sick", I can assure you that my health is most robust but thanks for the concern.

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

The "reality" is subjective because as we know, many of these accusers have been caught out in lies and the "kids" are in fact adults, many of whom are only alleging abuse in order in get money.

Any evidence and I mean actual published statistics to back up this.

Plenty of priests convicted, and some have been falsely accused. Some of those falsely accused have said its partially due to the church covering up for the actual abusers that causes this.

realitykeeper

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If they were giving birth they were women, not kids, the women's deaths were recorded separately. The 800 refers to unaccounted for burials of dead children and babies in only one mother and baby home out of many.




"Probably" you say - well you're wrong, the actual figures show that child mortality in the so-called "homes" was significantly worse than the national average, and similar to the very worst of the tenement slums where the poorest of the poor lived - malnourished, underheated, crammed a dozen or more to a room and no access to medical care.

Yet the nuns had plenty of funds - money from the council for the board and care of the women and babies; money extracted from the woman's family - if she had one, and they had money; money from illegally stealing and selling babies.

What were they doing with all this money, which was supposed to be spent on the care of these women and children?

Naturally the poor fair worse than the better off. Nothing new there. Thank God for the Holy Nuns for all those women and children they saved.

realitykeeper

DubInMeath wrote: »

Any evidence and I mean actual published statistics to back up this.

You sound like an unholy inquisitor, demanding records from elderly nuns with Alzheimers. If the statistics you seek are not easily accessible, then that is evidence of a secular cover of of the fact that there are a lot of false accusations. Also, it seems to me that natural justice was suspended a long time ago when it comes to clergy on trial. The presumption of guilt is a given and often the accusers don`t even have to testify.

o1s1n

Psalm 137:9
'Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks'

Hosea 13:16
'the people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open. '

Why would you want to worship a god that condones the above?

realitykeeper

realitykeeper wrote: »

You sound like an unholy inquisitor, demanding records from elderly nuns with Alzheimers. If the statistics you seek are not easily accessible, then that is evidence of a secular cover of of the fact that there are a lot of false accusations. Also, it seems to me that natural justice was suspended a long time ago when it comes to clergy on trial. The presumption of guilt is a given and often the accusers don`t even have to testify.

So basically you can't back up your statement that it's all for the money.

You sound like you're either trolling or its your mental health you should have a check up on.

Your championing the fact that abuse was carried out in an organisation.that is supposed to put people first and profited financially from it, and your reveling in doing so.

Basically by your own religious beliefs, your actually going to go to hell