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Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

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    #4592
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: I am minded to delete the last few pages of off topic rambling, diversions, repetitions of past rambling and diversions.

    Is it possible posts related to the Finglas Luas could be posted in the thread with the appropriate title. The same goes for all the other off topic posts. It would save me the trouble of deleting them.

    Of course the clever ones could open a new topic.



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    #4593
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,689 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: Do not comment on Mod instructions on thread!

    Posts deleted.



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    #4594
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,380 ✭✭✭prunudo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593409#Comment_121593409

    That is good news. Is there scope for it to run over more than one day. Find it hard to believe they will be able to wade through the predicted guff in one day and still have time for genuine concerns.



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    #4595
    eastie17
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭eastie17


    Just popping into this as a casual observer who lives “down de country”

    so roughly 20 years after being mentioned as something we were going to do, are ye telling me we’re still only at oral submission stage? That’s mad Ted



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    #4596
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,404 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595227#Comment_121595227

    DART+ West Oral Hearing took 3 weeks so it’ll definitely be a more than one day affair



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    #4597
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,343 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595229#Comment_121595229

    It's a lot more than 20 years, if you're going by the first real mentions of an underground.



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    #4598
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593487#Comment_121593487

    I move that 'sodding DART spur' become the official title of any all such suggestions.



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    #4599
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121595418#Comment_121595418

    And a lot less if you go by the start of this particular project...



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    #4600
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,305 ✭✭✭markpb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593779#Comment_121593779

    As far as I know, the only people invited to speak at the hearing will be people who responded to the public consultation. It's not a political meeting.



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    #4601
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,814 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532226#Comment_121532226

    No but I got slated on another thread for saying pretty much exactly that.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #4602
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121593409#Comment_121593409

    very positive news, so we'll be likely to get a RO during this year and there'll be only financial barriers to starting construction in 12 months time.



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    #4603
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596247#Comment_121596247

    Or a JR after we receive an RO?



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    #4604
    jiminho
    Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596490#Comment_121596490

    What are the odds of it going to a judicial review? Have any of the past LUAS projects or current DART+ projects gone that way? How long does that typical take?



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    #4605
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596511#Comment_121596511

    I’m not sure what the odds are but it wouldn’t surprise me with the amount of NIMBYs out there.

    Im not sure what the next steps are after we get an RO. Is it ABP that give the RO so the only possible planning stumbling block from then on is the JR?



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    #4606
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,707 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596526#Comment_121596526

    JR’s actually rarely happen for most infrastructure projects, I’m not saying never, see Galway Ringroad, but we did build all the Luas lines and intercity motorways without one.

    Just being a NIMBY isn’t enough to get a JR, not liking something won’t get it. JR’s only come up if there is evidence that ABP ignored a law or legislation during their decision.



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    #4607
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,455 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596580#Comment_121596580

    I really hope there is no JR as my understanding is this could take a year or two to arrive at a decision?

    Am I right in saying ABP give the RO, and that’s the last stage of the planning process- bar a JR if one is granted?



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    #4608
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,866 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Worth noting that the Oral Hearing is in relation to the RO submitted, it's not for discussing alternatives.



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    #4609
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596619#Comment_121596619

    They must've learned their lessons from this thread



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    #4610
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,521 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121596490#Comment_121596490

    I hope not and although I can't say for certain I really dont think theres any grounds for jr on metrolink. I would say there's more of a chance of a JR on DART+. Even if you can buy a good lawyer and were very greedy I would put it in the unlikely category.

    Post edited by cgcsb on


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    #4611
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    An application for JR does not automatically grant a stay either, that is a separate application.



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    #4612
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Having objections doesn't mean you can go to court - a judge will throw it out immediately if you don't have evidence or claims of evidence that the planning authority ignored something they legally had to consider.

    Also you must have raised the issue with them during the period for submissions too or you've missed the boat.

    The planning blackmail bozos had this down to a T, they made sure to make submissions earlier to facilitate their JRs.

    The extensive consultations from TII on this were not just to be seen to be doing something, it was to cover all their bases and prevent any cock ups allowing judicial reviews to be taken.



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    #4613
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    Fingers crossed it starts construction in 2025.



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    #4614
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,852 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597302#Comment_121597302

    it wont start before the election, if there is a change of government, we could be in trouble. Happy for a repeat of the same government one dublin metro is underway, if it collapses, so be it... I would be very worried about canning of the project... if its say SF FF... particularly if the green party arent in power...



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    #4615
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597447#Comment_121597447

    I think SF will continue with it.

    Public transport is socialist anyway.

    So much time and money has been spent on it already.



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    #4616
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597447#Comment_121597447

    Would that be FF who had Metro North at ABP before the crash (FG/Labour canned it after it received its RO) and are part of the government pushing through Metrolink? With LUAS and the motorway network, infrastructure is one of the few things FF can still be proud of. They won't be canning ML.



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    #4617
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121597616#Comment_121597616

    Exactly.

    FF will definitely be in government so it will happen.

    The only thing to scupper it would be a crash like 08 which is unlikely.



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    #4618
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    If SF manage to get into government, they'll only do so by winning lots of seats in Dublin. Cancelling Metro would be extremely unpopular. No government party is going to do so. Any talk about it is nonsense and pointless and absolutely off topic, IMHO.



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    #4619
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,868 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121598335#Comment_121598335

    Sinn Fein will cancel it to pay more social welfare.



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    #4620
    gjim
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gjim


    Nobody, including SF, will be dumb enough announce canceling it. Even metronorth wasn't officially cancelled, was it? I'm sure it was only "suspended".

    But if the likes of SF aren't inclined to go ahead with it, they'll find a crank or two to wax indignantly about some perceived flaw in the current plan. The (woefully PT ignorant) media will lap this up, plenty of the public will delight in getting into a frenzy of indignation, and then the new minister will show their leadership by gravely announcing that they've ordered an investigation/report about extending ML to UCD or Terenure or adding some feature or other to it. This way you kill the project but you can pretend your motivation is that you think your predecessor wasn't being ambitious enough.

    Safest bet would be for the current government to remain if history is any guide. Changes of government are deadly for big infrastructure projects.



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    #4621
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,873 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The concern would not be a cancellation, it would be a "refinement" or "alteration" that involves going back to the drawing board planning wise. At this stage literally any change to the plan means going back 3 or 4 years at the very minimum.

    That said, I'm growing quietly more confident that it will go ahead regardless. Even with a change in government there is always the option to say "this is a terrible plan but going ahead is better than stopping at this stage" and just blame the previous guys on any problems that arise.



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