Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624991#Comment_121624991

They'll be paid off and we'll move on. No point discussing it

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624777#Comment_121624777

So your plan, to improve Metrolink, is to remove one of the hubs which will provide major interconnectivity benefits, namely with Dart, commuter, and bus services.

Bsharp

Melbourne Metro testing may stop due to medical equipment access

2:56PM October 23, 2023

Train testing on Melbourne's $14 billion Metro Tunnel could be stopped if nearby hospitals need access to lifesaving equipment.

Bsharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121626121#Comment_121626121

It's been a running saga in Melbourne for a good few years now

cantalach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121620068#Comment_121620068

If they move the lab to Swords, it would be a quick journey on the…metro.

ArmaniJeanss

Can someone clarify for me how the route from O'Connell Street to Tara St is affecting Trinity? Is it the routing very non-direct? Maybe one of those street maps with the route coloured in that loco-scolo excels in?

goingnowhere

Current option

Stations

• East side of Stephens Green
• Between Tara Street and Tara Street station
• Top of O'Connell Street 

Problems

• Poor interchange at Tara Street due curved platforms and the fact the works order does not include the works to link to Tara Street.
• Poor interchange with Red Line Luas as you have to walk back to Abbey Street 
• Demolition of 80 apartments and a public swimming pool
• TCD not happy with vibration/EMI under its science buildings

Better option aka Metro North

Stations

• West side of Stephens Green
• No Tara Street station
• Bottom of O'Connell Street 

Benefits

• Good interchange with Red Line Luas 
• One fewer station (-cost)
• Shorter route (-cost)
• Fewer trains needed (-cost)
• Avoids demolition of 80 apartments and a public swimming pool (-cost)
• Avoids conflict with TCD (-cost)

The catch is you have to be confident DART underground at St Stephen's Green happens and its clear the NTA and TFI don't want to DART underground even though it has better financials and demand numbers than metro

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627701#Comment_121627701

Because of the fact that there's a stop on O'Connell St, and a stop at Tara St, the curvature required to do this results in the tunnel going from OCS to Tara, where it then begins to curve back toward the next station at St Stephens Green. This means that the tunnel goes under/close to the science end of Trinity.

It's one of those things that just can't really be avoided unless you are willing to compromise on the utility of the entire project. O'Connell St and Tara St were both identified as important stations, with Tara St being one of the most important. If you want a stop at both of these locations, and continue further south, then it's going to go under Trinity.

You can see it on the interactive map here:

https://tii-gis.maps.arcgis.com/apps/instant/basic/index.html?appid=f87ac761c533446b8ddb554ce00fb921

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628149#Comment_121628149

I'm sorry, a load of rubbish. Metrolink will be much cheaper to build then Metro North (assuming built at the same time). Metro North involved massive mined out stations, while Metrolink is using much cheaper cut and cover approach and has much smaller and simpler stations. Absolutely no comparison.

The station under Stephens Green was going to be particularly massive and disruptive, closing most of the green for years.

The catch is you have to be confident DART underground at St Stephen's Green happens and its clear the NTA and TFI don't want to DART underground even though it has better financials and demand numbers than metro

What an absolute nonsense. DART Underground had very poor Cost Benefit Analysis. Metrolink on the other hand has an extremely strong one.

The PPT and interchange station at Glasnevin can achive 90% of what DU was aiming to do. Doing DART+ and PPT is a no brainer. We really should have been doing it 30 years ago, rather then fantasying about DU.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope we come back and do DU some day. But Metrolink is a vastly more important project.

Anyway Metrolink is going through ABP now, so non of this will change.

noelfirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628149#Comment_121628149

For fairness, it's probably worth pointing out at least some of the coincident problems/drawbacks with the actual known Metro North proposal, rather than just positives under one and negatives under another:

• Vastly more complicated, disruptive and likely more expensive two entrance station straddling O'Connell Bridge
• Disruption to Luas Green line due to need to dig up SSG West.
• Significantly more complex engineering approach planned - probably cancelling out any savings posited vs. Metrolink in respect to stations, length and train numbers.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627701#Comment_121627701

Here you go!

AFAIK, their main lab buildings with sensitive equipment are SNIAM in blue, Lloyd in orange and CRANN in red. All of these buildings have at least one basement level, fairly sure there are 2 basement levels in SNIAM which is closest to the metro route.

Seems to be <40m between the route and SNIAM building.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121627701#Comment_121627701

Additionally, the turning angle of the line is severely limited by the angle of the stations at OCS and Tara St, which are designed to enable cut and cover, which significantly reduces cost.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628149#Comment_121628149

Ultimately you're suggesting they change the route to improve connection with Red Line at the expense of a direct interchange with the Dart line?

The cost of doing MetroNorth route now is massively higher due to disruption on OCS to build the station, which would close both Luas lines for a number of years. Not to mention the impact to bus routes. The MetroNorth route also required the closure of SSG park for a number of years and draining the lake for the period of works.

The actual proposed route massively limits disruption to the cities current public transport nodes.

marno21

Lads

How many times. The current routing of Metrolink is available to see at metrolink.ie. There are no plans to change this routing, it is the subject of an active planning application.

Do not discuss fantasy alternative routes on this thread. Start your own thread to debate the merits of MetroLink vs Metro North should you wish to do so.

Next person to start a debate on fantasy routes on this thread will be politely asked to refrain from further posts on this thread.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628417#Comment_121628417

Those stations boxes look pretty straight and square to me, ie. no curved platforms, so thats another myth debunked.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121631289#Comment_121631289

I don’t think the railway regulator would allow a new line to be constructed with curved platforms.

G_R

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121631289#Comment_121631289

I don't think the poster is suggesting that the platforms are curved, more so that the orientation of the box cannot be changed as they have chosen a position that allows them to do cut and cover

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632323#Comment_121632323

I should have been cleared, it wasn't Loco scolo who said that they should be curved, just their post referenced the route and orientation.

This is what the other poster said.

Problems

Poor interchange at Tara Street due curved platforms and the fact the works order does not include the works to link to Tara Street

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121628417#Comment_121628417

Am I right in saying that in order to build all 3 of those stations they will need to clear all surface buildings? That would be destructive to the north west of O’Connell st.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632628#Comment_121632628

Thanks - I understood your point. But I believe the other poster was referring to the curved narrow platforms in Tara Street Dart station.

Tara Street is the busiest station in Ireland currently, maybe after Heuston and Connolly?, but certainly the busiest Dart station. Making this station even busier with a Metro interchange is, perhaps, not ideal.

I'm not suggesting any changes, but it's not unreasonable to assume this station could be unable to handle the sheer volume of passengers which Metro will feed in.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632628#Comment_121632628

I believe that the poster was referring to the existing Tara St Dart station, which does in fact have curved platforms.

Their point is charitably classed as "Not Very Good" though.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632674#Comment_121632674

That whole area is being redeveloped anyway, so nothing will be unnecessarily knocked. It's significantly derelict.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632674#Comment_121632674

Yes, any building above a station will be removed. However, in the case of the O'Connell street station, those buildings are already planned to be removed anyway, as part of Hammersons Dublin Central development.

In that case, it's actually a great of way of minimising disruption, as the original plan was to put it under the Street itself, causing massive problems for Luas and bus services.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632674#Comment_121632674

The Royal Dublin Hotel site is empty. Its only an issue at Tara St where a number of homes and facilities will be moved and at glasnevin where a pub and carpet shop are to be demolished. All other stations are on empty sites, public parks or public roads

bk

Yes, there is nothing up in that location on Upper OCS that would be of any lose, those building are in desperate need of rebuilding anyway. Significant chunk of it has already been knocked and derelict for years.

The planned redesign looks great.

pakb1ue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632850#Comment_121632850

Just want to add the current view of this site

https://earth.google.com/web/@53.35156066,-6.26148216,20.9159428a,269.38841642d,35y,208.22396868h,56.99873568t,0r

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121632674#Comment_121632674

The dereliction in that area has been a problem for decades and a large contributor to the decline of O'Connell St as a whole. Carlton has been a shell for what, 30 years now? the site next to it, a wasteland for a full 50 years. The hotel went a good while ago now.

L1011

Gills burned down 1979 (this is the site with the Dr Quirkeys branding over it)

Carlton closed 1994

45 O'Connell Street Upper (beside the former Garda station) seems to have been last used in the late 1990s, used to be the parking fines office pre-clamping, and the Public/Civil Service Appointments before that was modernised/moved.

Fingal County Council vacated the old Dublin County Council offices in 2000

Royal Dublin Hotel demolished 2009

The previous Garda station closed in ~2014, was rarely open for years before

AIB closed 2021

JohnnyChimpo

When you step back and look at it it's truly mental that successive FFG governments just allowed the main street of the capital to fall into absolute shite.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121633653#Comment_121633653

In fairness, it's a site which has to be done once and done right. Piecemeal works there would have done more long-term damage. Obviously Hammersons need to be pushed to actually deliver as soon as the Metrolink station box is in, no more sitting on hands can be accepted after that.