Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121892432#Comment_121892432

The NTA sets the maximum fares, which are much higher then the 30ish promo fares you are talking about. The web promo fares are set by IR and they can stop them and charge the maximum NTA fares at any time.

Once they have a significant speed advantage over the coaches, I fully expect most of those web fares to disappear and we will be back paying the maximum fares.

Keep in mind that the only reason IR dropped their fares in the first place was because of the competition from the coach companies. Once they have an advantage over them, they will take the opportunity to increase prices. This is just business 101.

I'd love to be wrong, Cork to Dublin in 1h30 for €30 would be amazing, but unfortunately I highly doubt it.

Anyway, this is all over a decade away, if that.

riddlinrussell

https://irishcycle.com/2024/03/13/media-reporting-on-dublins-planned-metrolink-is-at-best-lacking-context/

At least some Journalists seem to have an interest in the actual goings on of Metrolink, rather than hopping on silly soundbites from the Oral Hearing.

KrisW1001

I can't find the source now, but I believe there's also goverment support in those cheap rail fare offers, same as there is for the recent Leap fare cut for bus.

I could see fares rising maybe 10-15% as the product improvement would support that, but any higher and you'd just be encouraging people to drive instead, which is directly contrary to our CO2 reduction obligations.

Also, higher-speed services are very likely to increase both ridership and overall capacity (faster trains mean more spare time on each track segment, so more services can be run). This would allow IÉ to make as much as, or more than, they do now without needing to raise prices: the costs of running a train has nothing to do with how many seats are occupied.

Where the coach operators would still be competitive is on services directly to Dublon Airport, and to be honest, once Metrolink is online, I think most of the airport bus operators will end up terminating their services at the Airport, handing their City passengers over to the Metro, rather than incurring the hassle and delays of going in to the city centre themselves.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893041#Comment_121893041

On the other hand, actually getting to 200km/h will require a new fleet of trains, electrification and significant upgrades to the lines. We are likely talking about well north of a Billion euro. The government might decide to claw back some of that cost with increased fares.

The trains are already relatively full, if it wasn't for the coaches, they would be back to being rammed with people standing between the toilets like I remember 20 years ago. 20 years ago, when IR had no real competition, they were perfectly happy to charge you €80 without even a guarantee of a seat!

If the trains are already almost full and faster speeds leads to even more demand of course they are going to push up prices. It is business 101.

I think folks forget that will IR are a semi state, they are still run like a normal commercial business, their board require them to strive to make a profit, etc. Prices are relatively good at the moment, but that is only because of the strong competition they currently face, once they face less direct competition, prices will only go one way.

Again I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt it.

Consonata

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893168#Comment_121893168

Honestly would doubt this would fly, You'd likely see NTA intervening to reduce the fares depending on whom is in government. It wouldn't be politically acceptable to invest literally bn's into Intercity travel for fares to double as a result.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893389#Comment_121893389

Again, the NTA already set the maximum fare, it is higher than the web fares, the web fares will disappear.

Sure, maybe they will keep around a small number of web fares to say you can get a cheap ticket if you book early, but the number of such cheap tickets will shrink to a tiny number, say just 10 seats per train or whatever, with the majority of seats being the max fare.

This is how supply and demand works. If demand goes up because faster trains you can guarantee prices will go up too.

Im really surprised so many people don’t get this. This is why IR are pushing so hard to get 200km/h service, with faster speeds, they face less direct competition, more demand and thus can jack up prices. This is simple economics and how business works.

Bodan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893463#Comment_121893463

It will primarily be up to the government of the day. Like today, across all forms of public transport, they can implement and force cheap fares.

LXFlyer

What has any of this to do with Metrolink?

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893520#Comment_121893520

Mod: Exactly. The answer is nothing.

Please stick to subject.

AngryLips

On the topic of IC interchanging at Glasnevin: there was an opportunity for those same services to interchange at Broombridge after the Luas was extended there but that never happened. Ultimately, Sligo passengers can quite easily hop on Metro from Tara without adding much to their journey times, though an interchange at Glasnevin would be preferable.

murphaph

Do Sligo trains pass through Tara as a matter of course? Even if they do, they may not in future. I think it would be nonsensical not to have all Irish Rail services passing through Glasnevin stop there. Too useful a connection to simply ignore even for Inter City services. Metrolink needs to be sweat if it's built. Every drop of usefulness needs to be squeezed out of it to justify both the cost and future expansion. For this reason I hope we see stations like St. Stephen's Green have additional entrances added in time so that passengers can access and egress the station without having to cross the road first. This is the only aspect of Metrolink I don't like, the very limited station access in several of the stations, especially the city centre ones, but I understand that the cost needed to be kept somewhat in check to get the project approved at all.

Sam Russell

The problem with the Glasnenin/Cross Guns/Brian Boru interchange is not the exchange to Metro but the other way.

Someone alighting from an IR IC train will be on a Metro train within a few minutes but changing from Metro to IC trains might involve a significant waiting time. There is unlikely to be facilities for that many passengers to be hanging around just waiting. It would be westbound passengers that would be most affected.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896186#Comment_121896186

Given that most people will have bought InterCity tickets already online, I’m sure that the vast majority of people are capable of planning their journey using journey planners so that they don’t wait too long at Glasnevin.

If you were coming from the Airport, surely you’d hold on there rather than wait at a local suburban station.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896186#Comment_121896186

InterCity journeys in general are not turn up and go, people are aware of that. Go to any small town intercity station and observe the near total emptiness until 10 mins before the next train is due. The rail strategy recommends diverting Sligo trains from Kilcock to Heuston and providing a service at least every two hours so the issue of Sligo trains in Glasnevin could be short lived (if we are serious about the rail strategy that is).

loyatemu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896605#Comment_121896605

if the metro is 10 years away, a new line from Kilcock to Heuston must be at least 30 years away. So it wouldn't be that short term.

Sligo passengers would also have the option of changing onto the Dart at Maynooth. Though given that the Sligo service is going to be somewhat constricted by a 10 minute frequency Dart, it's probably no great problem to have it stop at Glasnevin. Sure stop it at Clonsilla as well to connect with the Navan train!

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896121#Comment_121896121

Sligo trains terminate in Connolly using platforms 1-4. Have never seen one use Tara St, nor should anyone ever see one use Tara St!!

murphaph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896682#Comment_121896682

Thanks, it sounded off to me but I've been away a long time.

Kermit.de.frog

These hearings are absolutely hilarious and infuriating. The bingo card of cranks, chancers and nimbys that have held this country back for generations.

spacetweek

The idea we would have this oral hearing at all just makes a mockery of the Aarhus convention. Over in Denmark all the contributors to a debate like this probably did extensive research and had something useful to say but you don’t get that in Ireland. It’s just all unqualified, self-described experts, grifters and wealthy old people. Also Trinity and Lidl who should have known better and made fools of themselves.

KrisW1001

In the end, Trinity did not present any objection, so they deserve some (small) credit, but Lidl definitely made fools of themselves.

The process is necessary, if only to let some objectors show the world just how stupid and petty their claims really are. On the other hand, there are also some who are genuinely going to lose out as a result of this construction: particulatly the Tara St residents who will have to move home in the middle of an unprecedented housing shortage. It's important that their concerns, and the official response to them, are made public.

spacetweek

Personally, I changed my mind about Hedigans when I figured out the other day that it’s a pub I know quite well and I’ve drank in before, and it was mentioned in Ulysses. These things take on a new significance then. It’s a sacrifice to be made no doubt about it.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121902009#Comment_121902009

The idea that Ulysses era Dublin needs to be preserved indefinitely is part of why this city is so dysfunctional

The need for important infrastructure and the common good that it serves vastly outranks the need to preserve landmarks of minor cultural significance

bk

Half of Dublin City is mentioned in Ulysses!

Outside of the local area most people would never of heard of this pub, The Bernard Shaw across the road would be better known.

Always a pity to see a place you know and use disappear, but in this case it is unavailable, it will end up as one of the busiest train stations in the country and unlike other stops, there is no possible alternative. You can’t build an interchange between a Metro and two rail lines without impacting this pub.

riddlinrussell

Cries from the Owner of Hedigans itself ring particularly hollow, given they have twice tried to have it knocked themselves.

Zebra3

How many people have actually read Ulysses?

Who really cares what is mentioned in it?

murphaph

It is possible to completely move historical buildings if they are really worth saving. I din't know if this pub fits the bill, but it's not an insurmountable problem even if it is worth preserving.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121903969#Comment_121903969

It's definitely possible! Quite amusing to scroll through examples on the web. Obviously won't happen though!!

It would be cool if they could preserve the facade and incorporate it into the station itself as an actual entrance, or a new cafe inside (or outside). Would be reminiscent of an Irish bar inside an airport. The Americans would love it!

https://www.stadafa.com/2019/11/indiana-bell-building.html?m=1

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121904142#Comment_121904142

Personally I wouldn’t. The new station looks fantastic, modern and sleek looking. This pub doesn’t really look anything special, no different than thousands of other pubs around the country. The building only dates from 1850 and there isn’t anything particularly special about it, it looks like any other building from that time period, it just has some interesting painting on it, the architecture isn’t actually anything unique or different (for Dublin). Is it even a listed building?

KrisW1001

It couldn't be listed if the owners applied to demolish it. Being listed would have meant the station design would have had to accomodate or preserve it.

I have read Ulysses, and it covers a lot of Dublin- you can't preserve all of those places. And Joyce wrote it while living in Zurich, over ten years after leaving Ireland, so it's not like it was a precise document of the city.

citizen6

I wouldn't presume to speak for James Joyce, but no-one who cares about the city and its people would want things to stay the way they are.

We need more and better housing, more and better public transport, and a vibrant city centre. Metrolink will help with each of those.