Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

KrisW1001

Rome is currently building a Metro line right alongside the Forum.. every few months, the job stops to let the archaeologists in, because they keep finding priceless ancient sites. And yet, despite all this, the work continues. (project site here : https://metrocspa.it/en/ )

I think we can deal with an old pub.

sink

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121904598#Comment_121904598

Great short video on the subject here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzMfjO6gW_c

SeanW

If the idea is to preserve Joyces/Ulysses Dublin, then might it make sense to simply build a new Hedigans bar as close as possible to the original? Maybe just up the street a little bit?

Edit: Never read Ulysses myself, but when I lived in Dublin I used to regularly walk past Sweny's Pharmacy. These things are definitely nice to have.

KrisW1001

This video, in Italian, goes through the incredibly complex and expensive process of building the central Metro C stations:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgU3gYQwFK4

There's a 3D visualisation near the beginning that stands the whole station structure at street level, and you can see how deep the excavation is (85 m deep: Metrolink is less than 30) and why it is so slow and expensive. Normally this kind of deep station would be mined out, and access corridors and shafts would be tunneled up to the surface, but in Rome that would mean digging blind through who knows what archaelogy, so they're effectively forced to use cut-and-cover at really deep depths.

The Eastern section of MetroC, already in service, is actually much more like Metrolink: a standardised station design, either built at surface, or as cut and cover just below. Things only get horrifically complex in the old centre because they have to tunnel below the earliest stratum of the Roman city. Those central stations take on average 10 years to complete, compared to just 3 for the outer ones.

L1011

Reopen Barney Kiernans pub in the Markets area if we must keep a fixed quota of Ulysses pubs. Building is still there, pub closed decades.

Pete_Cavan

The interior of the front part of Hedigan's is certainly nice but Dublin has dozens of similar pubs.

If the lads wanted, they could buy another premises anywhere in the city with the wedge they'll get from the CPO and have the old bar, panelling, etc. installed there. Most people drinking there won't know that it isn't original to the building and nobody would care anyway. Given they wanted to knock the place themselves, I assume they'll just consider the licence and the interior to be another few quid to top up what they get from the CPO.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121903488#Comment_121903488

It’s very important to the character of Dublin. It attracts huge tourist interest.

That said, any of the individual locations he mentions are worth swapping for this project.

Kincora2017

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121906697#Comment_121906697

To be honest that’s a terrible attitude to hold in relation to our heritage. While I’m not saying Hedigans should be saved at any cost, once a place is destroyed no amount of careful reconstruction ever replaces the value of what was lost.

Theres also a focus on this thread on the fact that the owners wanted to knock it previously, rather than a focus on the fact that both times they were refused permission. This means that, at least at county council level, the heritage value of the place has been acknowledged

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910223#Comment_121910223

DCC actually approved the application, the only reason it failed is because the owners of the apartments next door appealed to ABP, which struck it down over the "excessive height" (6 storeys, Jesus wept. That's a different problem though)

The heritage value didn't really come into it.

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910022#Comment_121910022

Where have you seen the data to support this?

Pete_Cavan

Whatever heritage value there is in Hedigan's applies to the interior of the original pub only. Externally the building itself is nothing special and has had all sorts done to it over the years. The rest of the site is a bloody car park.

As I said, the interior could be salvaged and reused elsewhere. That would preserve the heritage value of what's there, the rest would be no lose at all.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121910375#Comment_121910375

Much like the Easter Rising and its tourist value, I don’t believe anyone has done a deep dive of the value of it.

However we do have two museums specifically focused on Joyce along with another (National Literary Museum) underpinned by him.

Bloomsday is an important day in the city.

There’s Apps and various tours that go through the city on it day to day

It is one of the first things you’ll see in the foreign media about Dublin or googling it.

I’m sure if you talk to proprietors of Ulysses related properties that they’ll tell you how it adds value. I understand that Davy Byrnes was bought purely because of someone’s love of it.

You can have your views on it as a book, but the facts are that it is regularly cited as one of the greatest works of the 20th century. For it to be about Dublin quite clearly adds significant value to Dublin beyond what would be considered normal.

L1011

Its outside the city centre and hence going to have a fraction of the Joyce tour related footfall that Davy Byrnes or Swenys gets.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912020#Comment_121912020

None of the tours go anywhere near it though, at least none that I can see.

It's one line in the book, they don't even go into the pub. Should we really be cancelling a vital interchange station to keep one pub that barely features in the book?

bk

Yeah, I live near some other buildings/business that were also mentioned in Ulysses and I have never seen a Joyce related tourist go near them. It is mostly just the famous ones inside the core city center, not the ones in the suburbs.

Sam Russell

Is the Ulysses factor greater than William Hamilton's scratches in 1843 on the (Brougham) Broom Bridge on the Grand Canal to remember quaternions?

Surely it is not far from the pub no-one goes to or remembers and is much more important than a mere mention in some book?

spillit67

I think you missed the part where I said in individual I would sacrifice any of the locations mentioned in the book for a project of this scale.

I was merely responding to the point on its importance to Dublin. It clearly is. That doesn’t mean we have to go all ott about it.

CatInABox

Oral Hearings back again today, here's the latest schedule that ABP have put out.

AZ4(e) Mater Station and Tunnel as far as O’Connell Street Station (Continued)

• District 7 Community Alliance (20 minutes)

• Millenium Theatre Company (30 minutes)

• The Rotunda Hospital (1 hour)

• Donal O’Brolcain (1 hour)

AZ4(f) O’Connell Street Station and Tunnel as far as Tara Station

• Dublin Central GP Limited (2 hours)

• The Abbey Theatre (Amharclann na Mainistreach) (45 minutes)

• Troys Butchers (20 minutes)

AZ4(g) Tara Station and Tunnel as far as St Stephen’s Green Station

• Greybirch Limited (15 minutes)

Other

• Office of Public Works (1 hour)

• The Heritage Council (20 minutes)

• Mouna Unlimited Company (1 hour)

Somewhat interesting that 3 hours have been removed, and have not been placed somewhere else in the schedule, perhaps they've reached an agreement. EDIT: Just noticed that Dublin Central GP have actually been rescheduled, but only with 20 mins on the last day.

I'd guess that the Abbey will be saying that the noise/vibrations will interfere with their shows, but it's only two weeks, they can raise the volume on their speakers.

It also shows that from the Mater to the SSG, there's not much controversy about it.

L1011

Surprised Hammerson (Dublin Central GP Limited) only need 20mins considering they are basically waiting for the station box to be built to proceed.

Greybirch is the Tara Street hotel site, Mouna is Larry Goodman. That personal appearance is someone who is a 'send buses down the port tunnel' guy I believe.

cgcsb

It all sounds positive. Hopefully a railway order will be issued by the end of the year and we'll see real work in early 2025 before an election.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912850#Comment_121912850

🤣

I didn't google the names this time, so I was wondering why a doctors practice needed two hours....

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912867#Comment_121912867

Is there any sort of indication how soon we will see works commence once a railway order is actually granted? I haven't been keeping up to date with the tender process in recent weeks.

JohnnyChimpo

I must say Fintan O Toole's piece in the Irish Times today about the farcical LIDL objections is a very entertaining read. "Subscriber Only" but yknow easy enough to find regardless.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913149#Comment_121913149

It's impossible to tell but I think the metrolink team are advancing their tender documents while waiting for their RO so hopefully it'll be a matter of months

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913155#Comment_121913155

Nice to see someone calling it out in the media.

CatInABox

Looking at the docs added to the RO site, nothing much happened today.

There's a photo montage of the Fingallians pitches, a quick word on the length of the railings and green space at the Mater, a doc that shows how they'll build the O'Connell St stop (with Dublin Central or without), and an update on the compound sizes required for construction (a few have gotten larger).

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121913402#Comment_121913402

I read the article (I have a sub). Agreed with all of it but am in 2 minds about the last paragraph:

"And meanwhile the massive new Planning and Development Bill is about to be guillotined through the Dáil. Its very title is telling: the D-word is up there Iin lights.

One of its main aims is to restrict severely the rights of citizens to seek judicial reviews of planning decisions. It makes no mention of sustainability or the climate crisis and places no real emphasis on defining the public good."

I agree that private housing and commercial developers are often objectionable but I seriously think that for projects such as public transport facilities you should not be allowed to launch JRs of them because of the overriding public interest. Object during the planning phase if you will, speak at the Oral Hearing if you must but that should be the end of it.

It's time we put a stop to nonsense about Kerry slugs and bats.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121914972#Comment_121914972

Ah, the Heritage Council got to speak, should have known someone would be getting air time.

https://www.irishtimes.com/transport/2024/03/19/st-stephens-green-metrolink-station-threatens-priceless-historic-asset-heritage-council-says/

Nothing new in there, it's the same as the OPW essentially.

CatInABox

Today's agenda

AZ4(g) Tara Station and Tunnel as far as St Stephen’s Green Station (Continued)

• Voice of Vision Impairment (1 hour)

• Aine Wellard (30 minutes)

• Tom Corr Clients: Hertz Europe Service Centre Limited and College Gate Apartments (2 hours): (Bart and Patricia Broderick; Cathal Duffy; Dermot and Doris Healy; Eanna Coffey; John & Majella Darcy; Karl Egan; Maria Elena Garcia Valasco; Martin Sheridan; Nicola Brait and Greta Tumiatti; Townsend Apartment Management Company Limited; Veronica Jane O'Mara)

• Nicola Brait and Greta Tumiatti (10 minutes)

• Townsend Apartment Management Company Limited (10 minutes)

• Save Markievicz Pool & Gym Campaign (John Dean) (2 hours)

• Trinity College Dublin (1 hour)

Hertz are out in Swords, so I assume that it's out there that they're worried about, the Seatown station is right next to their building (which they seem to share with Easons, for some reason)

Be interesting to see what the College Gate Apartment folks have to say, I think that we'll hear about flawed consultation, impact on lives, etc. I do have sympathy with anyone losing their home on this, but I doubt that they have anything more than emotions to bring to this.

The Save Markievicz Pool guys really had the legs cut out from underneath them when DCC agreed with TII to upgrade their Irishtown facilities, hard to campaign to save something when the owners are totally ok with getting rid of it.

Tileman

Wonder what the impact of Leo leaving will be. A Dublin Taoiseach was good for this project.

also Michael mcdowell was meant to launching an independent alliance with Veronica murphy this evening . Hope this project gets through before the next GE. Would not like mcdowell having the balance of power.