Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224687#Comment_122224687

It's funny that the two Luas Lines, Metrolink and Dart all pass by each other near OCS but all different stops.

It seems very Irish for some reason.

I know Dart and Metrolink will intersect at Tara St.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224687#Comment_122224687

Ah ok, I understand that better.
I don't actually know why they didn't run both lines down O'Connell St, though I assume there was some reason. Having used plenty of tram systems on the continent I just don't think its particularly unusual or a massive inconvenience to walk that distance. I do think, as alluded to by someone else, that both the signage and the pedestrian priority could be better to make it easier.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224687#Comment_122224687

The distance between OCS Metro and Abbey Street Luas will be 600m, as the Metro entrance will be located at the very northern end of OCS. Tara Street will, in fact, be closer at 460m. (Estimating mid point platform to platform).

Extremely poor planning not to have a entrance further south on OCS, which could have reduced the distance to 450m. The entire site is being bulldozed, and the majority of other stations have entrances on either side, so I don't understand why they planned it this way.

AngryLips

I do think the fact that each direction of the luas lines through the city centre massively reduces its utility for short hops across town. Like if I'm on OCS and I want to get to Dawson St without walking, I'm far less likely to jump on the Luas versus the same journey in the opposite direction.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122224794#Comment_122224794

It was politics, DCC wanted a new transport bridge and it was snuck through as part of the Luas Cross City project, rather it's own separate project.

I believe DCC wanted both directions of the Luas line to run over the bridge and NTA/TII thought that was a stupid idea and this is the compromise we ended up with!

To be honest, while I won't complain about an extra bridge over the Liffey, I'm not sure it is all that useful. I suspect DCC's thinking was that they could route all the buses and Luas over it, so they could keep cars flowing on O'Connell Bridge. Obviously the NTA want to get rid of cars from the city, so restricting O'Connell Bridge to Luas and buses is actually better for them and makes the transport bridge relatively redundant.

Frankly I think it would have been better if the Luas was routed both directions down OCS and instead the bridge money was instead spent on a new bridge down by the docklands, that would have been much more useful.

bk

Rather then messing with Metrolink at this late stage and delaying it further, I'd fix the issues here by doing the following:

• Route the green line down OCS in both directions, this would give you very close stops to both the Metrolink and Red line.
• Move the red line stop on Abbey Street to the west side of OCS. That reduces the distance to the Metrolink stop and perhaps more importantly means no crossings between the Red line stop and the Metrolink stop, it would be a straight shut along the west side of OCS. It would also benefit in improving access to Henry Street.

Basically enhance OCS as a transport hub.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225841#Comment_122225841

Thanks, didn't know that. That is, indeed, not a very good reason for the current setup. But I guess we're stuck with it now.

Sam Russell

A new, extra, Red line stop west of O'C St would be easy, and the east bound tram stops there mostly anyway.

Having stops close is no bad thing. Having stops at Abbey St, O'CS, Jervis, would get high traffic, saving much shoe leather.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226295#Comment_122226295

There is high justification for adding a station, let's hope it's done in the near future. The spacing is quite poor for the busiest stations in the city centre.

Currently:

From Busaras - 510m to Abbey, 480m to Jervis

Could be:

From Busaras - 420m to Abbey East (east side of Marlborough), 240m to Abbey West (west side of OCS), 330m to Jervis.

Would improve the interchange to Luas Green Line, Metro, and all the core bus routes. Under Bus Connects D'Oliver, Westmoreland, Bachelor's and Aston will be the main bus interchanges, as well as upper OCS - none of these are ideally served by the current Abbey Street Luas location..

AngryLips

I think fewer stops between Heuston and Docklands is what's needed for the red line because it is slower than by bus most of the time plus it is easily the slowest part of the entire line. Having green line run both ways up OCS and moving Abbey stop to the Easons side of the OCS junction plus moving Jervis to the fruit market side of Capel Street would do a lot for interchange with ML while also opening up the catchment of red line to the south side with better connections across Grattan Bridge

MJohnston

The reason that the Green Line being on Marlborough Street is useful is because it allows for trams to go Bride's Glen → Parnell → Bride's Glen.

Anyway, this has little to do with this Metrolink thread. I've made longer connections between modes on plenty of transport systems the world over, the only difference being they're usually contained within a station which I think psychologically feels different to people.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122227064#Comment_122227064

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122226806#Comment_122226806

I know Luas is not strictly "on topic", but this connection piece keeps coming up - in that respect I think some conversation on the Luas is not wildly off topic?..

The Red Line is definitely slow, the number of stops is not the issue, as the bus has the same number of stops. The issue is low priority at junctions and badly timed sequences, especially on OCS. If an additional Red Line stop was added to the west of OCS, it would benefit more users who could alight there rather than waiting on a tram to cross OCS.

More generally on Luas, just to point out - there are 2 types of users, ones who need short hops through the city making connections and longer distance users. Ideally, a tram network should facilitate the short hops. As such, a 600m+ connection, outdoors, is an extremely poor connection. No other way to package it...

OisinCooke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122225858#Comment_122225858

I couldn’t agree more, I think both branches of the Green Line running up O’Connell Street makes eons of sense. The two left hand lanes should be the two Luas tracks and the two right hand lanes should be for buses. Public cars have absolutely no place on OCS.

A direct effectively cross-platform interchange with a corner OCS Red and Green line station would be brilliant in terms of interchange and as you say, that would mean Metro to Red Line is just a walk up OCS with no major road crossings.

The Marlborough branch of the Green Line could be kept as well as an overflow line but realistically, the only people getting on and off at Marlborough are OCS patrons and even those who would be boarding at Marlborough or Parnell would easily be able to add an extra 100 metres to their commute is inconsequential

riddlinrussell

While it's OT here, I think this is worth a discussion but also think it might be worth a broader 'Interchange improvement ideas' thread for a national scale? Cover other possible transit interchanges and possible missed opportunities across the country.

Pete_Cavan

If both lines of the Green Line were running up O’Connell Street, there would be chaos given the number of buses also using the street. Buses carry a huge number of people in the city and can't be disregarded. It would be better to have Marlborough Street as Luas only (yes there arechallenges to be overcome with that) as it would avoid the nonsense that happens on OCS. Ultimately, the Green Line is expected to do more than it is capable of given the limited infrastructure it has. This is why the Green Line south of Ranelagh needs to be upgraded to Metro, anything else is underutilising the asset which is the old rail alignment.

loco_scolo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122228399#Comment_122228399

It will be interesting to think about all of this, once they've stopped cars passing through the centre and rolled out all the Bus Connects routes. It will massively reduce city centre congestion, streamline traffic flows (at OCS bridge for example), and minimize conflicts.

Consonata

Where on earth is this project lol. It entered ABP after the oral hearings and hasn't been seen since.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268178#Comment_122268178

I am pessimistic. I suspect that the Greens won't be in government next year, and part of the price for Independent Ireland to support FF and FG will be the cancellation or postponement of Dublin public transport projects.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268495#Comment_122268495

Not a hope.

Dublin's decades behind where we should be with public transport investment.

This metro should've been built in the Celtic tiger years.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268495#Comment_122268495

I highly doubt that would be remotely acceptable to FF or FG. It would kill them in Dublin.

There is zero logical sense to do anything but let it continue.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122268582#Comment_122268582

I wish I had your optimism.

Dart Plus will go ahead because the carriages are already on order. BusConnects and Metrolink, they are the ones in danger. Enough issues have been raised with Metrolink - disruption to new Dart services at Glasnevin, poor connectivity in OCS and Stephen's Green etc., that a new Government could order a rethink.

loyatemu

compromise - Dublin gets the Metro, rural Ireland gets a giant slurry plant that discharges directly into the Shannon (which I believe is part of II's manifesto).

prunudo

The government whether current or future, can't contuine to promote the growth of the population without spending and building huge money on public transport and other infrastructure projects.

marno21

It would be an act of treason to cancel this or the DART projects. There is no way to meaningfully address Dublin's housing shortage without projects like this to enable high density housing.

Any rural based parties supporting the Government would likely just ask for Eamon Ryan's road project defiling mechanisms to be undone. Pissing all over the Metro is not a vote winner.

Zebra3

If ML and DART+ aren’t delivered, the country is destined for a gradual decline that future generations will pay for.

spillit67

Neither Metrolink or DART+ are Green Party transport projects.

Their achievement in office is continuing to push projects that they had made some criticisms of when in opposition.

I think they will rue that they did not push things more in the early days of the Government though. The slack in State bodies during Covid on anything non Covid related delayed these projects by 12-18 months. They could not have foreseen what happened with ABP but they should have made the delivery of these projects special priority cases during Covid restrictions.

Is there any news on Metrolink’s new public consultation?

spacetweek

Sadly no, APB are completely unaccountable and don’t have to explain to us what they’re doing.

cson

Was in Copenhagen (very similar size population to Dublin) during the week and their metro system would make you despair at our situation when you look at what they've been able to do in 20 odd years. Super comprehensive transport system.

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122275805#Comment_122275805

Yes they should be the benchmark.

We shouldn't be so far behind them either.

cgcsb

We'd need to finish all the current projects and add in another 2 metro lines just to catch up to Copenhagen and they're planning an undersea metro line to Malmo.