Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

MICKEYG

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345897#Comment_122345897

Great post. There is a huge amount of housing coming on stream on the green line. Even excluding cherrywood and Leopardstown race course there are two big developments beside the Carrickmines stop, one under construction and one in planning.

We need to think big and future proof.

KrisW1001

If you search online, you can find the 2018 report on converting Green line to Metro. The recommendations in that report are being followed. First step is Green line frequency and capacity improvements, and some of that is done; they're is still more capacity available for future growth.

The big, big problem with conversion is that the upgrading works will sever the Green line corridor for three years, forcing a change of mode south of Charlemont. I think that nothing will be started until there's a second alignment for Green Luas here, because there's no way that the bus infrastructure could absorb replacement passengers on a closed Green line.

Brightlights66

So, no interest, at present, for developing a southwest corridor.

I was just curious. I visited a number of German cities last week, Cologne, Duesseldorf, Frankfurt, Munich and Dresden, and they seem to have created integrated tram/metro networks which encompass pretty much all of their cities.

Dublin seems intent on 'upgrading' parts of the city's transport, while neglecting the colossal gaps - 7-8 kilometres or so between lines into the city - which would simply not be seen in the aforementioned German cities. It's 15 km between DL and Tallaght, and there's just one line into the city in between.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122346943#Comment_122346943

Well the options now are build what is planned or delay everything another decade. So, no, there is no interest to switching to a southwest corridor alignment.

spacetweek

My guess is that planning on a Metro southwest will start soon after construction kicks off on ML, and Green Line Conversion will be moved forward to be completed in the early 2030s.

Kermit.de.frog

Interesting how one could read the thread from 2010 and pass it off word for word today.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055849587/dublin-metrolink-just-metrolink-posts-here-see-post-1

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we stick to the topic.

I think the reason for stopping at Charlemont was to move the Nymby crowd off the track.

spacetweek

That’s it, and extending from SG to Charlemont was to bypass the slow on-street part of Luas Green Line.

spillit67

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122345852#Comment_122345852

A temporary reprieve.

gjim

The modern approach to metro design dictates through-running in the core. A terminus in/near the centre is a frequency and capacity killer as effectively incoming trains and outgoing trains have to cross each other at-grade limiting headway at a point in the system where demand is highest. Metrolink ticks nearly all the boxes as far as a checklist of modern metro design is concerned: driverless, platform screen doors, frequency over length, no-interlining/dedicated tracks for a single service, barrier-less, shallow/accessible underground stations, multiple trip-generating destinations along the route, etc.

It ticks all the boxes except the fact that it terminates so close to the centre of the city.

KrisW1001

Density drops dramatically south of the canal, as you hit the swathes of semi-detached and detached housing of South Dunlin city, and the case for a Metro any further south just didn't add up, especially when it would be so disruptive to Luas Green line service during construction... another plus of the current plan is that the whole thing can be built without interfering with existing public transport.

On a raw cost/benefit analysis, ML would have terminated at Stephens Green, or only goes as far as it does because going as far as Charlemont makes future extension much easier than trying to pick up from Stephen's Green.

bk

Also keep in mind that the next capacity upgrade to the Greenline actually requires Metrolink and for it to be at Charlemont.

The plan is to increase the frequency of trams, but only south of Charlemont, the extra trams will terminate at Charlemont with people transferring from these service's to Metrolink.

You can’t run these extra trams north of Charlemont as you run into the much slower, non segregated, street running sections of the Green line, those sections can’t handle higher frequency, just the segregated sections south of Charlemont.

gjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360121#Comment_122360121

I don't think I agree with that assessment of the viability of metro south of Charlemont.

In terms of benefits, density has been increasing all along the route, dramatically in places like Sandyford and Dundrum.

But it's the costs which make the business case. Upgrading to metro spec would've/should've needed a fraction of the cost per km compared to the rest of the system. There would be very little heavy engineering required except to upgrade a pair of at-grade junctions, replace platforms and upgrade the power infrastructure. Not trivial but compared to TBMs, cut n' cover construction and the complexity of underground stations, a very straightforward and inexpensive way to increase the coverage of the metro by almost 50%.

Having a continuous North-South spine with an unconstrained central section would allow thinking about options like adding spurs, etc. and the extra capacity and frequency would have made feeder bus services viable along the route.

gjim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122360136#Comment_122360136

I know how we ended up here but when you consider the end result, I can't help feel it's going to look somewhat ludicrous.

Two high-capacity, high-frequency rail alignments - perfectly lined up but both terminating at the point where they meet. It's analogous to having two stretches of motorway that meet but have a line of bollards blocking travel from one to the other - one coming to a dead stop while the other veers off and continues as a boreen.

It's being childish and spiteful, but I'd almost like to see the Greenline capacity upgrade postponed and have the resources diverted towards other PT infrastructure projects around the city where the investment would be welcomed. Let the greenline NIMBYs sweat (literally) for a few years and reflect on what they've achieved.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122359887#Comment_122359887

It ticks all the important boxes bar the most important one- permission to start construction.

When/if this ever happens will be a great day.