Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Zebra3

Didn't FF get hammered in Dublin though and will need something drastic to win back seats?

MJohnston

Muahahaha wrote: »

Could also be halted because Fianna Fail dont want it to happen and FG are about to go into coalition with them. FG might want the Metro to go ahead but is it a red line for them? Im not so sure it is. On top of that the Greeens seem to be swerving going into Govt meaning about 12 Independent TDs are needed. Lots of them are going to be rural and against 'Dublin getting everything'....

We could end up being 15 billion in the red by the time this crises is over. A 5 billion Metro for Dublin could be a very hard sell in the grander scheme of things.

And we loop back around to my original points:

1. Rural TDs don’t need to worry about Metrolink because it’s a plan already in motion.
2. When Dail approval is required, the rural TDs won’t be important because it’s a project with cross party support.
3. The way out of the coming recession, or the way that doesn’t last generations, is to borrow and build. If we head down the austerity path again, public transport will be the least of our worries...

Muahahaha

I dont think you can say it has cross party support when FF are very much less than luke warm on it, they're the same with Bus Connects I believe too. When FF get into Govt with FG compromises are going to have to be made on policy positions and the Metro is the single biggest project of infrastructure on the table. Question now is when it comes to the crunch will FG be insisting that it goes ahead as part of the price of participating in Govt? Or is it something that is easily cast away so they can secure other policy objectives? Time will tell but IMO the single biggest impediment to it getting the go ahead is FF being in power.

salmocab

Muahahaha wrote: »

I dont think you can say it has cross party support when FF are very much less than luke warm on it, they're the same with Bus Connects I believe too. When FF get into Govt with FG compromises are going to have to be made on policy positions and the Metro is the single biggest project of infrastructure on the table. Question now is when it comes to the crunch will FG be insisting that it goes ahead as part of the price of participating in Govt? Or is it something that is easily cast away so they can secure other policy objectives? Time will tell but IMO the single biggest impediment to it getting the go ahead is FF being in power.

Not sure they’re so much against it as part of the system we have where opposition think they have to oppose pretty much everything.

CatInABox

salmocab wrote: »

Not sure they’re so much against it as part of the system we have where opposition think they have to oppose pretty much everything.

In fairness to FF, I didn't get the impression that they were against it as a party, I got the sense that some individual members where attacking anything and everything to get local votes. I know I read two different takes on it, with one FF guy lambasting Metrolink, and another guy demanding that it go ahead immediately.

Pretty much like any other party, really.

donvito99

Fianna Fail amongst others have achieved the impossible in that they are saying that they will build a Metro in South Dublin by cancelling a Metro in South Dublin.

marno21

If anything, the current fix we're in has improved the chances of Metrolink IMO.

As MJohnston alluded to, if the Government decide to work their way out of this fix with austerity and cutbacks they may as well hand Mary Lou the keys of the country and disband their parties.

+ most of the FF opposition was along the lines of

1. Jim O'Callaghan & co opposing the Metro South element
2. John Lahart arguing the Metro should run to the south west to a corridor with no rail at present
3. Promoting their own Metro North as opposed to the FG creation that is MetroLink.

MJohnston

marno21 wrote: »

If anything, the current fix we're in has improved the chances of Metrolink IMO.

As MJohnston alluded to, if the Government decide to work their way out of this fix with austerity and cutbacks they may as well hand Mary Lou the keys of the country and disband their parties.

+ most of the FF opposition was along the lines of

1. Jim O'Callaghan & co opposing the Metro South element
2. John Lahart arguing the Metro should run to the south west to a corridor with no rail at present
3. Promoting their own Metro North as opposed to the FG creation that is MetroLink.

Indeed, and the whole “we can’t inherit a FG project” aspect completely goes away if they decide to be in a coalition with FG. Beyond a few NIMBY idiots and Transport Minister Shane Ross, I haven’t seen any great opposition to any transport project that’s on the books

LXFlyer

CatInABox wrote: »

In fairness to FF, I didn't get the impression that they were against it as a party, I got the sense that some individual members where attacking anything and everything to get local votes. I know I read two different takes on it, with one FF guy lambasting Metrolink, and another guy demanding that it go ahead immediately.

Pretty much like any other party, really.

I would agree with that analysis. People are conflating one TD's view with that of the party as a whole.

I don't think any party is objecting to Metrolink as it stands between Swords and Charlemont.

Dats me

MJohnston wrote: »

Indeed, and the whole “we can’t inherit a FG project” aspect completely goes away if they decide to be in a coalition with FG. Beyond a few NIMBY idiots and Transport Minister Shane Ross, I haven’t seen any great opposition to any transport project that’s on the books

This is a great point that I hadn't thought about before.


In a wider sense from a transport point of view we're set if we get the Greens and screwed if we get independents. Only hope I can see is if John Lahart gets transport although I'm basing that entirely off him pushing for ANPR enforcement of bus lanes when the average TD probably doesn't even know what ANPR is so open to being proved wrong.

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

I would agree with that analysis. People are conflating one TD's view with that of the party as a whole.

I don't think any party is objecting to Metrolink as it stands between Swords and Charlemont.

I would take it a bit further in that once the TBM is in the ground, and making progress, the pressure will come on for the solution to extending to Sandyford. The solution to St Raphaellea's Road is straight forward and could be achieved as a separate project.

The other nymby problem can be solved by ignoring the objections and just coming up with a workable solution.

I would even hope they put this on the fast track and plan to open the Swords to Airport as soon as they can. That will water down the opposition.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would take it a bit further in that once the TBM is in the ground, and making progress, the pressure will come on for the solution to extending to Sandyford. The solution to St Raphaellea's Road is straight forward and could be achieved as a separate project.

The other nymby problem can be solved by ignoring the objections and just coming up with a workable solution.

I would even hope they put this on the fast track and plan to open the Swords to Airport as soon as they can. That will water down the opposition.

Isn't that for another thread Sam? :-)

Sam Russell

LXFlyer wrote: »

Isn't that for another thread Sam? :-)

Well, most of it is for this thread, and the other bit is just a slight extension, but relevant to the first bit.

Idbatterim

its idiocy not to get PP on the scheme and hopefully its granted a ten year permission... would be perfect time to sort St Raphaellea's Road etc now!

marno21

Irish Times wrote:

Meanwhile, TII said that work on plans for the MetroLink, the railway line that will connect Dublin Airport with the city, is continuing. No building is under way on that development as it is in the early planning stages.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/construction/covid-19-builders-cease-work-on-big-developments-1.4217267

Idbatterim

Should I post my "irish government behind corona virus to stop infrastructure spending " here, or in the conspiracy theories forum?

I think we have learned a lot here again, have so much political interference, endless public consultations, that the next crash is guaranteed to hit, be it from incompetent governance, that we are used too or a bloody lethal virus, if your own government doesnt bring everything crashing down first :rolleyes:

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

Should I post my "irish government behind corona virus to stop infrastructure spending " here, or in the conspiracy theories forum?

I think we have learned a lot here again, have so much political interference, endless public consultations, that the next crash is guaranteed to hit, be it from incompetent governance, that we are used too or a bloody lethal virus, if your own government doesnt bring everything crashing down first :rolleyes:

Have at it in here.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058066552

Thelonious Monk

https://www.newstalk.com/news/covid-19-capital-projects-like-dublin-metrolink-may-deferred-1003882

Just scrap the bloody thing so we can get on with our lives

Zebra3

"However, the economy will not return to where it was at the start of this year until 2022."

All the more reason to not defer it!!!

Podge_irl

Zebra3 wrote: »

"However, the economy will not return to where it was at the start of this year until 2022."

All the more reason to not defer it!!!

He didn't suggest they would defer it. If anything he suggested the opposite - that it was vital to the economic recovery.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

He didn't suggest they would defer it. If anything he suggested the opposite - that it was vital to the economic recovery.

Our relationship with the European Central Bank is quite good. We could borrow for this project and get construction workers back to work despite the impending recession. Taking the ball and running with it, is the only financially prudent course of action.

marno21

I think what Paschal is alluring to, and is logical, is that this project is likely to be delayed for reasons other than funding.

Firstly, the project team are working from home atm and any physical work can’t go ahead
Secondly, public consultations and An Bord Pleanala are not able to run effectively at the minute
Thirdly, any international expertise which they may be relying on faces issues working with the project team

For as long as society is being held together with duct tape, there will be delays to all sorts of development projects as normal procedures are just not able to run smoothly at present.

I am fairly confident Metrolink will go ahead in the next few years. Between the need for fiscal stimulus, low interest rates, ECB promoting sensible capital investment, the need to open up land for housing, the need to expand public transport in Dublin, environmental concerns there’s a lot going in its favour

We are forecast to have a €23bn deficit at the end of the year and yet we are issuing bonds with negative yields. This is nothing remotely like 2010 when we were struggling to borrow below double digit yields.

Idbatterim

for the love of god, bring it through planing and all the tortourous BS and have it ready to go, sure they werent going to get shovels in the ground for god knows how long anyway!

I hope any bull**** rural motorways are being shelved, if this is!

marno21

Idbatterim wrote: »

for the love of god, bring it through planing and all the tortourous BS and have it ready to go, sure they werent going to get shovels in the ground for god knows how long anyway!

I hope any bull**** rural motorways are being shelved, if this is!

What's a bull**** rural motorway?

This is a list of motorways in planning:

M2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross (potential motorway)
M6 Galway City Ring Road
M20 Cork-Limerick
M21 Adare-Rathkeale (part of the M7-Foynes Port route)
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy (TEN-T Core Port Access)
M50 Dublin South Port Access route

donvito99

marno21 wrote: »

What's a bull**** rural motorway?

This is a list of motorways in planning:

M2 Ashbourne-Kilmoon Cross (potential motorway)
M6 Galway City Ring Road
M20 Cork-Limerick
M21 Adare-Rathkeale (part of the M7-Foynes Port route)
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy (TEN-T Core Port Access)
M50 Dublin South Port Access route

Not rural and arguably bullshit.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we return to Metrolink please.

cgcsb

I'm more confident now that it will go ahead than before the virus, in fact I wouldn't be shocked if more projects were announced. In the short term there has to be delays for technical reasons, the companies that were tendering may collapse for other reasons, general disruption to schedules due to the crisis etc. But the Euro central bank is keen on recovery so once people start to return to work It'll get back on track pretty quick. 2027 was never a deliverable date in this country. That would be achievable in Southern Europe where there's less mountains of procedures.

technocrat

Looks like our next minister for transport is going to be...





Eamonn Ryan!!!

marno21

technocrat wrote: »

Looks like our next minister for transport is going to be...





Eamonn Ryan!!!

salmocab

marno21 wrote: »

It’s amazing to be in a position where we’re worried about PT if a green is in charge of it.