Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

prunudo

If the financial crash thought us anything its that you don't pull the plug on major infrastructure projects. By all means slow the process but don't can them completely. Anyway its not like the €5bn will be spent in the next 18-24mths, these are long term capital projects fover the the next 10 years.

Yellow_Fern

CatInABox wrote: »

NBRU in thinking only of their members SHOCK!

Also:



That's one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

It is funny. WRC would never be completed in one gov and its far more profligate then the Metrolink.

Sam Russell

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

It is funny. WRC would never be completed in one gov and its far more profligate then the Metrolink.

The NBRU chap said the metro is currently called Metro North.

Now he is either very ignorant or deliberately trying to muddy the discussion.

I wonder which.

Kellyconor1982

This is Fine Gael's baby. Fianna Fail stand to lose by objecting to it and not a hope it gets shelved with the Greens in government as they will want some movement on public transport. This eedjit has his own warped agenda and is a powerful nuiscance though. It goes through Mary Lou's constituency also so while she won't want it going through her local school or gaa pitch, rest assured she doesn't want it canned altogether.

It might get kicked out to 2030 though unfortunately. Maybe not, as it seems like we will be able to borrow at decent rates and it is a good news story for the next government.

LXFlyer

Kellyconor1982 wrote: »

This is Fine Gael's baby. Fianna Fail stand to lose by objecting to it and not a hope it gets shelved with the Greens in government as they will want some movement on public transport. This eedjit has his own warped agenda and is a powerful nuiscance though. It goes through Mary Lou's constituency also so while she won't want it going through her local school or gaa pitch, rest assured she doesn't want it canned altogether.

It might get kicked out to 2030 though unfortunately. Maybe not, as it seems like we will be able to borrow at decent rates and it is a good news story for the next government.

I think that you’re conflating party policy with the views of certain members. I. am pretty sure that Fianna Fáil doesn’t object to Metrolink.

One or two of their candidates in the recent election did (Jim O’Callaghan and Deirdre Conroy spring to mind) but equally plenty of others support it.

One dissenting voice does not speak for everyone.

I don’t think any of the parties are against the Metrolink plans as they currently stand.

The issue is how to deal with the area directly south of the city centre which will require modified plans (not least due to the central sewer along the canal precluding any metro line from coming above ground at Charlemont).

landofthetree

prunudo wrote: »

If the financial crash thought us anything its that you don't pull the plug on major infrastructure projects. By all means slow the process but don't can them completely. Anyway its not like the €5bn will be spent in the next 18-24mths, these are long term capital projects fover the the next 10 years.

Let a private company build and operate it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/private-funding-could-provide-dublin-with-new-metro-by-2025-says-dublin-metro-chief-889462.html

donvito99

landofthetree wrote: »

Let a private company build and operate it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.breakingnews.ie/ireland/private-funding-could-provide-dublin-with-new-metro-by-2025-says-dublin-metro-chief-889462.html

He has been embraced by the anti-BusConnects crowd which demonstrates the merit of his proposal. What is the incentive for the private investor?

Pixel Eater

Just heard on the radio Leo Varadkar stating that he thinks the Metrolink should still go ahead. So that's sort of reassuring.

D.L.R.

So Leo standing behind Metro.

Paschal Donohue floating delay or cancellation.

Of course NBRU calling for Metro to be cancelled. No overpaid drivers on an automated metro.

Hard to know where FF stand as they didn't mention Metro at all in their manifesto. They could do with the good will in Dublin but the parish pump will need tending too. The Greens? Fk knows! Maybe a quid pro quo with Metro and M20 both approved.

Or more likely with this country, more delay and dithering.

marno21

Where did Donohue float cancelling/delaying the project? He said on Newstalk Breakfast that they may not be able to commit to the original timelines as the pre-construction phases of the project are being disrupted by the coronavirus lockdown.

FF were pushing DART Underground in their manifesto as it's a stick to beat FG with who have shown no support for DU. Some senior members of FF also have issues with the project such as causing inconvenience for a minority of their consituents.

Not sure why anyone on here is paying attention to Dermot O'Leary to be honest. MetroLink is of zero benefit to his union or his members given it is proposed to be automated, and BusConnects is widely being used as a weapon against privatisation. Of course the NBRU are going to promote the expansion of CIE and those rail lines.

I have no doubt that the lamplighters union took issue with the work of Thomas Edison in their time too.

D.L.R.

marno21 wrote: »

Where did Donohue float cancelling/delaying the project? He said on Newstalk Breakfast that they may not be able to commit to the original timelines as the pre-construction phases of the project are being disrupted by the coronavirus lockdown.\

I read a quote last week, something along the lines of long-fingering Metro while the economic fallout is dealt with.

Podge_irl

D.L.R. wrote: »

I read a quote last week, something along the lines of long-fingering Metro while the economic fallout is dealt with.

This quote?

"It's possible Shane that some of those projects may be differed for reasons that are beyond my control.

"For reasons that, for example, large companies might decide themselves regarding do they want to stay in procurement processes, are they still in a position to deliver against commitments they've made with governments?

"So that possibility is there."

"But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

Cause that isn't floating a delay as an option, just highlighting the risk of an unavoidable one.

Kellyconor1982

LXFlyer wrote: »

I think that you’re conflating party policy with the views of certain members. I. am pretty sure that Fianna Fáil doesn’t object to Metrolink.

One or two of their candidates in the recent election did (Jim O’Callaghan and Deirdre Conroy spring to mind) but equally plenty of others support it.

One dissenting voice does not speak for everyone.

I don’t think any of the parties are against the Metrolink plans as they currently stand.

The issue is how to deal with the area directly south of the city centre which will require modified plans (not least due to the central sewer along the canal precluding any metro line from coming above ground at Charlemont).

Sorry I wrote that badly. My point was that Fianna Fail don't appear to gain anything by objecting to Metrolink, especially if they are in government and it happens on their watch. It's a good news story.

To be fair, I understand that several FF tds in Dublin were looking to change the route on the southside, but didn't seem to have an issue with the northside aspect to it.

Muahahaha

Sean Barrett on Newstalk right now discussing the Metro with Ivan.

Muahahaha

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

marno21

Muahahaha wrote: »

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

Ah give me a break. The same old ****e.



I only caught the end where he was describing the M17/M18 scheme as a social unemployment scheme and these projects should be assessed based on the cost per job created. Such ****e.

LXFlyer

I would not give Sean Barrett the light of day when it comes to transport investment.

He frankly is against any investment in rail whatsoever.

He and McCarthy are peas in a pod in that regard and should be ignored due to their internal bias.

donvito99

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

Late 70s: "DART? Not needed, overkill".
Late 90s: "Luas? Don't need it, we already have DART. Overkill, buses will do."
2010s: "Metro-Lite? Shure we already have the Luas and the DART."
2020: "BusConnects? MetroLink? Shure we have DART and Luas, and the Port Tunnel is there, and what about the ribbons...?"

landofthetree

Muahahaha wrote: »

Main points from Sean
-dont spend the 4bn because the bus through the Port tunnel will get you to the airport quicker than the Metro
-Only 4,000 construction jobs for the investment whereas we need 400,000 jobs
-National Childrens Hospital overspend will be replicated on Metro
-We dont have the population density to justify it
-
On Busconnects and front gardens Ivan called him a nimby, Sean says "I see the ribbons around the trees"

Not all capital projects have cost overruns.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/new-140m-mental-health-facility-is-in-budget-and-is-on-time-37821944.html

The bill for the new central mental hospital - the construction of which is under way in north Co Dublin - is currently in line with its projected cost of €140m.

Construction on the €368m Luas Cross City line began in 2013, and it was delivered on time and on budget in late 2017, a rarity for such a complex scheme.

https://constructionnews.ie/luas-cross-city-line-john-sisk-son/


Plus on the density thing- maybe build apartments/ houses along the route instead of having people commuting from towns 50 miles away.

Zebra3

donvito99 wrote: »

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

Late 70s: "DART? Not needed, overkill".
Late 90s: "Luas? Don't need it, we already have DART. Overkill, buses will do."
2010s: "Metro-Lite? Shure we already have the Luas and the DART."
2020: "BusConnects? MetroLink? Shure we have DART and Luas, and the Port Tunnel is there, and what about the ribbons...?"

Do these people ever visit other cities such as Copenhagen or Munich? :rolleyes:

Sam Russell

Zebra3 wrote: »

Do these people ever visit other cities such as Copenhagen or Munich? :rolleyes:

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

madbeanman

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I don't think that that is what the person was doing. I think they were talking about public finances rather than saying the service is equivalent.

Sam Russell

madbeanman wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I don't think that that is what the person was doing. I think they were talking about public finances rather than saying the service is equivalent.

It is what MD and CMcC said at the time when the Metrolink project was launched.

They are against any rail based infrastructure, and against public spending in general.

Muahahaha

donvito99 wrote: »

You could set your watch by the Doheny & Nesbitt economists being asked by the media to vent about public transport projects.

These people have effectively presided over or advised those presiding over public policy for decades and as such we have them to thank for crippling congestion. The place is a mess, and we still seek out their opinions?

It must be an easy job for McCarthy and Barrett being advisers on transport to the government. All they have to do is supply the answer the politicans want, that then gives the politican political cover to do nothing and hence they keep returning to them again and again because they'll consistently give the answer that they require. Its like some kind of merry go round where everyone on it is insane.

LXFlyer

landofthetree wrote: »

Not all capital projects have cost overruns.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/new-140m-mental-health-facility-is-in-budget-and-is-on-time-37821944.html

The bill for the new central mental hospital - the construction of which is under way in north Co Dublin - is currently in line with its projected cost of €140m.

Construction on the €368m Luas Cross City line began in 2013, and it was delivered on time and on budget in late 2017, a rarity for such a complex scheme.

https://constructionnews.ie/luas-cross-city-line-john-sisk-son/


Plus on the density thing- maybe build apartments/ houses along the route instead of having people commuting from towns 50 miles away.

Virtually every Irish Rail capital investment project of recent times has been delivered on budget also.

Zebra3

Sam Russell wrote: »

or even travel by public transport in their own city.

Michael McDowel (vested interest against Metrolink) equated the Metrolink with the bus/coach service from the airport - clearly never had to travel on it. How could anyone compare an hourly or half hourly service with a metro every 2 min service - or a service the can go reliably from the airport to city centre in 20 mins vs the coach that takes 40 min in zero traffic to anything over an hour in congestion.

Hard to believe these jokers are listened to at all.

I'll hazard a guess that the journalists who interview them don't use public transport either.

D.L.R.

Podge_irl wrote: »

This quote?



Cause that isn't floating a delay as an option, just highlighting the risk of an unavoidable one.

If there's a will there's a way. But that's the problem. The political will for a metro system has always been wishy washy.

Podge_irl

D.L.R. wrote: »

If there's a will there's a way. But that's the problem. The political will for a metro system has always been wishy washy.

If a contractor pulls out of a contract because of force majeure, or indeed if multiple ones do, or there is a mandated order to stop working on aspects of a project, then there will be a delay. That is unavoidable.

There is absolutely zero indication of a deliberate delay, or a choice to delay by the government. And it is most definitely not suggesting to delay the project "while they deal with the economic fallout".

It is there, in plain words - But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

D.L.R.

Podge_irl wrote: »

If a contractor pulls out of a contract because of force majeure, or indeed if multiple ones do, or there is a mandated order to stop working on aspects of a project, then there will be a delay. That is unavoidable.

There is absolutely zero indication of a deliberate delay, or a choice to delay by the government. And it is most definitely not suggesting to delay the project "while they deal with the economic fallout".

It is there, in plain words - But my intention going into this is to try to preserve as much of our big capital commitments as I can.

No he used the word defer. That's different to a technical delay.

Podge_irl

D.L.R. wrote: »

No he used the word defer. That's different to a technical delay.

No it isn't. This is just people desperately looking for things to preemptively complain about. If they need to re-open tenders it will cause delays. That is unavoidable.

Again, the far more relevant part of what he said is this

And those things - not only are they really important socially - but they're also an essential element of how we can rebuild our economy.

There has been no public indication that metrolink will be voluntarily delayed/deferred/cancelled.