Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

MagaBot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143550#Comment_118143550

Inflation go brrrrrr

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118143550#Comment_118143550

What comparable projects internationally more expensive than metrolink per km?

Murph85

If this project is being put on the never never, but not officially cancelled. Given planning hasn't been sought yet , is there any way to shave a significant amount from the cost, by far more surface running?

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144168#Comment_118144168

No, there is no chance of them changing the plan at all unless they intend to put things off for several more years. There is years of work already put into the current alignment and plan.

CatInABox

More surface running would result in higher CPO costs. You might save some money in tunnelling costs, but a fair bit of that would be eaten up straight away.

There'd also be a much bigger backlash against it, what with people being attached to their properties and all.

Murph85

Stopping it around o'Connell bridge in a phase one, also not an option ?

Pete_Cavan

Changing anything at this stage is only going to result in more delays and for absolutely no benefit whatsoever. Either the current plan goes to ABP next year or no Metro plan goes to ABP this decade.

Murph85

Lads in terms of cost, surely it's a bit of a smoke screen. Directly and indirectly, a huge percentage must end up back in government coffers ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/michael-mcdowell-new-dublin-transport-strategy-a-sick-joke-1.4723894?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fopinion%2Fmichael-mcdowell-new-dublin-transport-strategy-a-sick-joke-1.4723894

Can someone post screenshot of this subscriber only article on IT ?

JPup

Financially the country can afford it. No question. The cost will be spread over a decade and the benefits will accrue over the next 100+ years.

Irish GDP is going to be up 15-20% this year. Our debt to GDP ratio is below the 60% threshold for the fiscal stability pact and falling. We can borrow for almost nothing. The European Investment Bank will lend for this and there are other EU supports available for important infrastructure projects.

Cost is not the issue here. Or at least it is far from being prohibitive.

Murph85

Imagine come the next election, post covid and traffic hell has fully resumed. Thousands more homes... nobody will forget yet another kick into the long grass...

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144554#Comment_118144554

Will they though? Many people in Ireland only vaguely support public transport if it gets other people out of their cars and out of their way. But they themselves wouldn't dream of using it.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144578#Comment_118144578

Given that I follow this thread I'm obviously got an interest in it, but I live outside the catchment area of the current metrolink and also even if it was extended to Sandyford. Even if I lived with the area, given my line of work I still wouldn't be one of its regular users. As is, I will probably only use it once a year if that but it doesn't mean I don't understand the need for a large scale projects like this.

Too often the media focus on the cost in some weird hope that it will create calls amongst the population to get them cancelled. The ironic thing is, construction cost will keep going up, doesn't matter if it was built in the 80s, now or the future, it will always be expensive.

If anything we're not ambitious enough. If we really want a modern functioning society then these large scale infrastructure projects need to be built now, not in 2030 or 2040. We can't keep building houses and extending the commuter belt without them tbh.

JohnnyChimpo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144578#Comment_118144578

This has the air of Yogi Berra's infamous quote "Nobody goes there anymore - it's too crowded". "Many people" may not use public transport, but that doesn't change the fact that in "normal" peak times every Luas, DART, and bus is absolutely rammed

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144769#Comment_118144769

The position put forward was that transport would be a massive election issue that "nobody would forget". My point is that transport is not at all an issue for most people except for roads for cars. In the 2020 general election exit polls transport didn't even make it into the top 10 issues.

While I do think the Greens will get absolutely hammered at the next election it won't be because of Metrolink or Dart Underground it'll be because of the perception of them as the carbon tax party, rightly or wrongly.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144578#Comment_118144578

Also worth pointing out 3/4 of Ireland population don't live in Dublin and will very rarely use the metro.

I'm from Offaly and for sure I would love to see the metro being built but in reality I would use it only a couple of times a year, It won't be a voting issue for me, I'll be voting for my local TD to deal with issues in Offaly/Loais first and that's the reality folks.

Dublin is not Ireland, Dublin constantly forget this, look I really hope and want ye to get the metro for sure but I also want later and more frequent train times on intercity routes and better local bus shedules as they impact me directly

Bsharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144881#Comment_118144881

This is an insightful post because it highlights the issue of how transport is planned and perceived in Ireland.

It's not looked upon as one system with knock-on impacts of how we all work and live. Without Metrolink traffic will get worse in Tullamore. Why? Because less development will take place along a metro corridor and more in regional towns in lieu.

DART Interconnector is the same. Where all the additional Intercity and Regional commuters trains meant to go if Heuston Station and Phoenix Park Tunnel reach capacity.

marno21

A lot of people in the general population, and it would appear a lot of politicians, don’t make the connection between housing and transport. They are joined at the hip.

An example: in Cork, there was a massive expansion of housing in the 1990s and 00s. The reason it was all feasible was massive expansion of the road network. The South Ring Road was carrying 100k vehicles per day by the mid 2010s only existed since 1999. Much of that was new traffic brought on by new developments.

The same is likely true in Dublin but I don’t know the finer points. The motorway boom of the 90s and 00s and the construction of the M50 facilitated it, but Dublin had the Luas and the DART expansion of the 90s to help.

Now we are in a right pickle. Dense housing in the city centre gets roundhouse objections and is not wanted by the city council. The existing public transport is nearing capacity and any attempts to densify near stations also gets objections. There is very little serviced land with public transport capacity. Massive road based capacity expansions are not an option anymore.

Which begs the question. What next? MetroLink was designed to open up Swords to dense development and open up large tracts of land in north Swords, Dardistown, and any brownfield land along the route to dense development. It provides enhanced connections for DART passengers, significantly improving connection options for the DART SW line in particular which has ridiculous amounts of development potential.

If we can’t service land we can’t build houses. Where does this end?

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145046#Comment_118145046

Excellent post marno!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144446#Comment_118144446

No. How do you resume tunneling? You need the tunnel behind to take out spoil.

Would have to tunnel in from the other end, massively increasing cost and disruption

Murph85

These people wages are serious. A fortune has been spent on du and mn, then dm plans... is lying about current greenline capacity being adequate for two decades acceptable?

Their literally now just saying, whatever suits them. After years of plans, figures, studies, public consultations...

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144881#Comment_118144881

Dublin is the golden goose and its bled dry. If dublin could keep Dublin taxes , we could have world class infrastructure. A choked uncompetitive Dublin, is bad news for the rest of the country on many levels

..

"Also worth pointing out 3/4 of Ireland population don't live in Dublin and will very rarely use the metro."

Yeah right. So Berlin shouldn't have a metro because 90% of germans cant use it on a daily basis?

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145395#Comment_118145395

Where did I say Dublin shouldn't have a metro? You are taking up my post wrong.

Where do you think Dublin is going to get it's water from in 10 years time? (Shannon pipe line)

I'm just stating reality to you that the country as a whole won't make this an election issue

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144168#Comment_118144168

Have you actually read the plan?

It is not being put on the never-never, it is going ahead. Unfortunately, because of the likes of Na Fianna, Dunville and others, there have been delays to the design process several times over the last decade resulting in the current plan. That is going to planning next year, but it will take a few years after that for procurement etc. to enable work to start.

It is the same for other plans. DART+ is delayed by residents in Ashtown and Coolmine forcing rethinks, but hopefully it will get going quicker as well. I would expect construction on that to start first.

AlmightyCushion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144881#Comment_118144881

If every other county is looking out for itself maybe Dublin should do the same. Most people living in Dublin don't use intercity trains, maybe only a couple of times a year so why should they get to use the train lines here? Scrap the intercity routes and put on more DARTs for the people living in Dublin to use. Most people living in Dublin would use already rammed DART that would use the intercity routes. Obviously I don't think this should happen, I am just trying to make a point.

I live in Dublin but would probably never use the Metrolink much probably less than you would but I still think it needs to go ahead. I also think that better public transport everywhere else is a good idea. I remember an article here a while ago about Kilkenny getting its first bus service and I was delighted to see it happen (surprised too that Kilkenny didn't have a bus service before that). I don't live in Kilkenny, I have been there a few times but would never need to use the bus service there as I am only visiting and staying somewhere central. However, if a party was looking to stall or roll back improvements there and in other towns/cities across the country it absolutely would affect how I would vote even though it doesn't directly affects me because it shows their attitude to public transport in general. If a party isn't investing in public transport in Dublin where buses, trams and trains are rammed full at peak time, why would they invest in public transport in other areas of the country live Offaly and Laois? A Dublin metro would cost money. A better bus service in Offaly and Laois would cost money. More frequent and longer running train service in Laois and Offaly would cost money. If a party isn't going to spend the money on public transport in Dublin, why would they spend it elsewhere?

It isn't about Dublin getting things and my area isn't. It's about political parties prioritising public transport or not. I say all this as someone from Sligo who lived in Sligo most my life (only moved to Dublin a few years ago) so it's not just me saying this because I live in Dublin.

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145603#Comment_118145603

That's quite a tale, again as I've stated to other people. Read my post again, where did I say Dublin shouldn't get a metro?

marno21

Lads, no more Dublin vs the rest of the country chat. This is about Metrolink only. Start another thread to talk about regional investment imbalances (this is a topic meriting discussion so it would be a worthwhile idea to start one)

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145585#Comment_118145585

Right. Have these issues been worth spending billions extra on ? Because that has been the outcome... the cost for dealing with this nonsense, to Dublin and the actual financial cost implications, are a disgrace...

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145953#Comment_118145953

Well, that is the price of living in a democracy, of living in the EU, where the public have a right to be consulted, have a right to have their views heard.

You and I might think that the people who object to level crossing closures are wrong, but they still have to be given their voice.

Murph85

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118146149#Comment_118146149

You reckon other eu countries afford them this level of control ? Has there been a consultation on the interior colour scheme of the metro carriages yet ? Debate on what music if any, should be piped through the speakers?

Murph85

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/transport-chiefs-issue-denial-that-metrolink-will-be-delayed-for-a-decade-41039159.html

just read this...