Dublin - Metrolink (Swords to Charlemont only)

Strumms

Who knows what, when or how… over a decade away so god knows… the tech and design of the train will I’m guessing be obsolete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295536#Comment_119295536

It's a single, segregated line, it'd take serious effort to make a balls of it.

...Ireland: Challenge accepted 😅

spacetweek

Was on the Teams call with Anne Graham from NTA hosted by Dublin Commuter Coalition. Speculation-free facts on Metrolink:

• Construction to start 2025
• RO submission in September, that is official now
• Cost not announced, write a number on an envelope, but inflation is high and similar projects in Australia/Canada right now are coming in around the $10 billion dollar level. I dispute that 9.5 billion euro is a lot, when Dublin is losing 2 billion a year in congestion costs.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295661#Comment_119295661

The original metrolink proposal was a bit of a balls up as it was very similar to the Porto Metro which is basically an underground Luas at least this is using driverless trains with high platforms and suicide proof doors.

It's good that there appears to be no ticket barriers in the design. This should speed up boarding and disembarking hopefully they'll remove them at IE stations aswell.

cgcsb

With the €2 90 minute fair revenue protection is less of a big deal

MyLove4Satan

The polticians will be happy with the reception to this news from outside of Dublin. Apparently children in Cork and Donegal will die or starvation in the streets if this is built. The hysteria of the ham-gnawing rustics is off the scale.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295816#Comment_119295816

It won't be €2 to the airport. Like any similar metro/train to the airport there will be a surcharge to embark/disembark at the airport. Can't wait to hear the whinging when people realise there's a different fare for this.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295832#Comment_119295832

There is nothing at all to suggest an airport surcharge. Its also on a through line, and one that's likely to be proof of payment rather than barriered; so there would be no method to even charge for one.

Airport surcharges are not that common. Paris, Barcelona, Edinburgh have them - of about 30 places I've been with rail transit to the airport.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295844#Comment_119295844

I'd bet you €50 now that there will be a different fare for the airport stop, but by the time this thing is built that €50 will only be worth a fiver 😀

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295871#Comment_119295871

I'll take that. Because if there was any chance of there being a surcharge they'd have done it on the 16/41 decades ago.

downtheroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295876#Comment_119295876

You're on. Bookmark this - I'll be back in 30 years to claim my winnings 😀

GoldFour4

Infuriating hearing the route debates start up again about the south side of Dublin and Northern Ireland this time.

Murph85

Secure planning permission for it. If it's a ten year permission etc, they can wait for the imminent recession before going to tender. Then again, it would be counterintuitive to irish government. Building it when it was cheap, rather than spending it on crap like welfare and propping up ps pay etc...

spacetweek

Anne Graham also confirmed that Metrolink has been designed to preserve possibility of continuing southwest, south onto Green line or east to N11.

tigerboon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295679#Comment_119295679

9.5 billion is €500,000 per metre, €500 per mm. Regardless of how much it'll save, that makes the children's hospital look like a bargain.

jumpinsheep

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293406#Comment_119293406

The CPO process will be interesting alright

VeryOwl

What's the justification for the 10 - 23 billion euro price tag for a single, off-the-shelf light rail line??

Are we being trolled or something?

thomasj

Frank mcdonald was on virgin media tonight and both him and a newspaper editor (can't remember who) brought up the heavy rail line to Belfast via the airport and clongriffin and how much cheaper it would cost .

I completely forgot about this option it was so long ago that it was being touted as a possible option .

dublinman1990

It's great news to hear this project will have a possible extension south of Charlemont going down to the N11. Although I would have thought the initial word from Anne Graham in the recent past that Metrolink wasn't going to be built down to Sandyford due to all of the proposed housing developments in the old Dundrum SC and Leopardstown Road being drawn up there.

I would have thought that at the time if there was a newer extension to Metrolink in the future; a southwest spur to Metrolink down to either Rathfarnham or Tallaght would have made more sense to me at that point.

I would also be very surprised to hear if it was considering both an extension to Southeast and southwest together after Charlemont but I would think that would be wishful thinking on my part.

With all that being said; I am very happy to see this project get it's business case approved today. I sincerely hope that both the Government and TII will get this project into the planning system by September and get shovels into the ground quite quickly.

We as a country have suffered for far too long in not having a suitable piece of PT infrastructure in our capital city that should be similar to metro rail infrastructure that is seen in other countries around Europe and across the U.S. and the UK.

The problems that are being seen now with using PT services on the streets of Dublin is quite a huge challenge to overcome when Covid has exacerbated it's stability to a whole new level. If any sort of metro system was actually built in the past; it would have created a far different picture back then as opposed to overcoming the current levels of under investment that is now a big feature of our current PT system in Dublin today.

Let's hope the wish of Metrolink comes through for the people of Dublin. It will be a great day when it happens. I should guarantee it.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296344#Comment_119296344

I'd hardly use the US or the UK as an example. Only a handful of the largest cities mostly on the East Coast have proper Metros, Dublin's public transport would probably be 10x better than most cities in the US of comparable size.

As for the UK only two areas outside London have something resembling a metro. Glasgow and the Tyne Wear area. Glasgow's is a very old system with miniscule trains and Tyne Wear is a cross between a Metro and a tram. Merseyrail could also fall into this category but that's more heavy rail. If Birmingham and Manchester were in France, Italy, Spain, Belgium, Netherlands, Scandinavia or Germany they'd have 3-5 Metro lines.

xper

Since it seems to be the high quality model we are working towards, posters might take note of the numbers for Copenhagen's Central Ring M3 line which was a slightly smaller scale project than Metrolink to expand their existing network. Its 15.5 km (all tunnel) with 17 stations (5 interchanges) and full trip time of 25 minutes on driverless trains. Prep work started in 2007, construction contracts were signed in 2011 and it opened in 2019. Cost was ~€2.9bn in an era of unparalleled year-on-year low inflation.

If we're starting c.15 years later in a with a slightly bigger project, no pre-existing network/infrastructure/experience to plug in to, and less favourable economic certanties, the optimistic-end figures are very comparable, the contingency figures are just that, for unlikely scenarios.

This what it takes to invest in maintaining and running a city this size. Our mistake has been delaying and postponing ad infinitum. Will we bite the bullet this time or will the gombeens win again?

xper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296113#Comment_119296113

Off the shelf? Did you see that on Amazon or Ikea? The justification will be in the business case documents when they're published. Which you'll read cover to cover of course before commenting on its merit.

Strumms

The Copenhagen comparison is really valid.

as anyone who has been there will tell you. It’s crazy expensive, including materials and wages so yet they can build it bigger, more of it underground and it still works out cheaper.

xper

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296440#Comment_119296440

Read that again. The line was actually slightly smaller but the main reason the headline cost was lower than the metrolink estimates is that they are done and dusted, they did it all 15 years ahead of us. The postponements and redesigns are the mistake we keep making. Once we actually give a green light on a project and stick a shovel in the ground, TII and its predecessors actually have a decent record of delivering on time and budget.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296444#Comment_119296444

We haven’t put a single shovel in the ground.. 11 years after planning permission was granted.

construction it’s been confirmed will not ‘begin’ before 2027. That’s according to a government spokesman last September im reading. That isn’t saying it will start then, just not before then.

the rebranding of Metro North, to ‘Metrolink’…why ? likely because there won’t be any ability for the state to provide Metro South. They can’t say that politically as West has already been shelved.

Copenhagen line 1…15 stops, 14.3 kilometers

Metrolink… 16 stops, 17.5 kilometers.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293750#Comment_119293750

Why does the lie about Metrolink being superior to Metro North persist? We would probably be riding on the bloody thing now had it been built. And it would have interchanged at Drumcondra instead of Glasnevin. It was not lacking connectivity to other modes of transport in the city.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296521#Comment_119296521

It's not a lie. This has been addressed to you several times before. This has to be considered trolling at this stage. Thats besides the fact that it has been stated many times by Mods that this thread is for Metrolink and harking back to MetroNorth is off topic.

namloc1980

This is very strange. Michael McGrath thinks it could cost more than €23bn. Honestly this sounds like a busted flush. Throwing in further construction inflation and an imminent recession, if I were a betting man I'd say this will get canned/reviewed by the next government, only after a small fortune has been spent on a RO of course.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/wild-variation-in-metrolink-cost-estimates-as-minister-calls-governments-own-figures-inappropriate-41816977.html

VonLuck

Just get it done. No one will care how much it had cost to construct once it's up and running. The benefits far outweigh the costs.

namloc1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119296643#Comment_119296643

When we have ministers quoting cost estimates from €7bn to €23bn+ then it very much matters and people do care. Their own benefit analysis is that it will be worth €14bn over 60 years to the economy and yet we have the Minister for Public Expenditure talking about €23bn+ to build it! It's an embarrassment.