Penalty points

16thelegend

A friend of mine has a serious problem,
What will happen he has got 21 penalty points, in a period of 3 months,
What kind of Ban will he get?

biko

Did you mean 12 points?
Any driver accumulating 12 penalty points within any given three-year period will be automatically disqualified from driving for six months.

16thelegend

biko wrote: »

Did you mean 12
points?

NO 21 POINTS... going through the port tunnel several times and not realizing the speed limit

Furasta

16thelegend wrote: »

NO 21 POINTS... going through the port tunnel several times and not realizing the speed limit

Probably time to buy a bicycle, and possibly a lawyer. Most definitely will get a driving ban of some sort, insurance rates for him will skyrocket.

biko

Possibly he will get 6months ban and then have another 9 points left

vicwatson

Toward the second ban

Miike

*followed*

please update this thread.

tuxy

So after 12 points his licence would be suspended. What happens if you continue to accumulate points on a suspended licence?

CiniO

As far as I remember reading, if you reach or exceed 12 points, you get 6 months ban, which after expiring resets your penalty points to 0.
That's regardless if you had 12 or over.

However it's purely what I remember and I might be wrong here.

Miike

CiniO wrote: »

As far as I remember reading, if you reach or exceed 12 points, you get 6 months ban, which after expiring resets your penalty points to 0.
That's regardless if you had 12 or over.

However it's purely what I remember and I might be wrong here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/penalty-points-loophole-means-drivers-ignoring-disqualification-benefit-1.3097405

Not from what this article concludes

He will have 12 or the 21 expunged after 6 months ban and have 9 left. Good luck getting insured after a disqualification and still having 9 points

mattser

16thelegend wrote: »

A friend of mine has a serious problem,
What will happen he has got 21 penalty points, in a period of 3 months,
What kind of Ban will he get?

I don't know OP. Not wishing him bad. I got 3 penalty points three years ago ( 1st ever ), and drove VERY carefully after.
Not that I hadn't done before.
My crime was 65 in a 50.
They've expired now.
I've noticed since that most drivers are pi**ing by me while I'm adhering to the limits.

bri007

I’m the exact same, got caught a few years ago doing 64 in 60 and have been adhering to the speed limit ever since, the crap I get though, people beeping, overtaking constantly and one wanting to get out at the lights and have a fight.....

mattser wrote: »

I don't know OP. Not wishing him bad. I got 3 penalty points three years ago ( 1st ever ), and drove VERY carefully after.
Not that I hadn't done before.
My crime was 65 in a 50.
They've expired now.
I've noticed since that most drivers are pi**ing by me while I'm adhering to the limits.

bazz26

How does one accumulate 21 points without already receiving a ban/court appearance well before that or is this an early rendition of tall tale Sunday?

Over the limit a few times using the tunnel for maybe the first time but not doing what you would do on any other road and paying attention to the speed limit signs? Is that even possible????? Once ok maybe. If it is possible your pal deservers to be off the road .

JustARandomGuy

bri007 wrote: »

I’m the exact same, got caught a few years ago doing 64 in 60 and have been adhering to the speed limit ever since, the crap I get though, people beeping, overtaking constantly and one wanting to get out at the lights and have a fight.....

I would never accept a ticket for being 4 over. Jesus.

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

How does one accumulate 21 points without already receiving a ban/court appearance well before that or is this an early rendition of tall tale Sunday?

Is there a fixed speed camera in the tunnel?

If so, then one could not know about it, and be over the limit every time he/she passes. Commuting through tunnel 2x per day, and after 4 days you can accumulate 21 points and this still leaves a space for passing a tunnel once within speed limit.

Obviously fining system doesn't work that quick, so by the time you get your first letter with fine, it's already too late.

It doesn't look that difficult to accumulate 21 points without receiving a ban prior to that.

tuxy

JustARandomGuy wrote: »

I would never accept a ticket for being 4 over. Jesus.

How would you go about contesting this in court?

Rubberchikken

any tool that isnt aware of soeed limits etc shouldnt be given a licence.
people (and i use the term loosly) are a menace on our roads and their disrespect and arrogance is shameful.

tuxy

The port tunnel uses fixed average speed cameras. Is there anywhere else in Ireland with fixed speed cameras?

ED E

tuxy wrote: »

The port tunnel uses fixed average speed cameras. Is there anywhere else in Ireland with fixed speed cameras?

The booths are fixed but the internals are moved around, or at least they used to be. Something like 6 cameras and 120 positions if remember correctly.

Rubberchikken

why does anyone need to remember or even be cobscious of where cameras are?
just obey the rules of the road. its not that difficult.


oh wait..for some it seems to be.

tuxy

Interesting, has this system been deployed anywhere else in the country?
Reports from 2017 show they were catching about 250 people per month at the port tunnel.

kbell

Before the m1 was constructed past ravensdale and connected to the A1, the old Dublin road past newry had average speed cameras, dunno if they’re still operating on that stretch of road anymore tho.

bri007

Traffic cop argued it but he said see you in court so just paid it and accepted the points!

JustARandomGuy wrote: »

I would never accept a ticket for being 4 over. Jesus.

K.Flyer

16thelegend wrote: »

A friend of mine has a serious problem,
What will happen he has got 21 penalty points, in a period of 3 months,
What kind of Ban will he get?

Hopefully a permanent ban for their repeated disregard for speed limit signs.
There are illuminated signs at each end of the tunnel warning of speed cameras and the speed limit. In the tunnel there are illuminated speed limit signs reminding you again of the speed limit.
I can understand someone getting caught once or even twice, but so many times shows stupidity.

16thelegend

This is not a bull**** story, I quote he said those cameras don’t work stupidity is right or that might be being nice to him... he will have to give the van back to the company. Dublin transport system will be his best friend..

I will update the post when I know more.

highdef

K.Flyer wrote: »

Hopefully a permanent ban for their repeated disregard for speed limit signs.
There are illuminated signs at each end of the tunnel warning of speed cameras and the speed limit. In the tunnel there are illuminated speed limit signs reminding you again of the speed limit.
I can understand someone getting caught once or even twice, but so many times shows stupidity.

Can't agree more. The port tunnel is probably the only stretch of road in the country that has bright illuminated 80 km/h signs every few hundred metres. If a driver does not notice them, I'd consider that as driving without due care and attention. If the driver does see the signs but chooses to ignore them, I'd call it pure stupidity.

Hopefully the lesson will be learned and hopefully your friend tells the story to his friends and those friends tell the story to their friends.....it might lead to a few more people actually driving within the legal limits on the public roads.

SCOOP 64

bri007 wrote: »

Traffic cop argued it but he said see you in court so just paid it and accepted the points!

Think i would have went to court, and paid the extra fine if it went against me, just to highlight to court, yeah this guard is a complete c...t,.
i think a lot of people would show sympathy in this case.

theteal

JustARandomGuy wrote: »

I would never accept a ticket for being 4 over. Jesus.

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Think i would have went to court, and paid the extra fine if it went against me, just to highlight to court, yeah this guard is a complete c...t,.
i think a lot of people would show sympathy in this case.

Yeah but, aren't most speedos set a few kmph lower than actual measured kmph. So if the gard clocked you 4kmph over, your speedo would have been showing closer to 10kmph over the limit. No excuse there really no matter how negligible the amount

tuxy

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Think i would have went to court, and paid the extra fine if it went against me, just to highlight to court, yeah this guard is a complete c...t,.

But under what grounds would you contest it? If the garda has all evidence correctly recorded you are the one that will look like a complete c..... with 5 points to show for it.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

How does one accumulate 21 points without already receiving a ban/court appearance well before that or is this an early rendition of tall tale Sunday?

Fairly easily. If you don't know the speed limit and carry on as usual, past a camera, you will get points notification several days later (often not knowing, to that point, that you did anything wrong)
Now imagine that you use that stretch of road twice a day, at that same speed, until the notification arrives?

Should the OP friend have copped the speed limit? Yes
Is it a balls that you are not informed of a transgression immediately, to allow you to correct your behaviour? Well... yes.

It's one of the reasons I dislike static cameras and vans, they do nothing to stop the behaviour immediately. Allowing people to speed their way to a potential accident, for several days, until notification.
Cops with a hairdryer, at least, pull you over immediately.

alan partridge aha

Rubberchikken wrote: »

any tool that isnt aware of soeed limits etc shouldnt be given a licence.
people (and i use the term loosly) are a menace on our roads and their disrespect and arrogance is shameful.

So you have never ever broken the speed limit.

tuxy

alan partridge aha wrote: »

So you have never ever broken the speed limit.

Almost everyone has but you don't get 21 points in such a short space of time by occasionally speeding. What was he doing to not notice the sign for speed cameras at least once?

highdef

Deleted User wrote: »

Fairly easily. If you don't know the speed limit and carry on as usual, past a camera, you will get points notification several days later (often not knowing, to that point, that you did anything wrong)
Now imagine that you use that stretch of road twice a day, at that same speed, until the notification arrives?

But the person who has got the 21 points has absolutely no excuse to have not known the speed limit in the port tunnel. There are literally dozens of brightly illuminated electronic signs displaying "80" on them throughout the length of the tunnel plus other regular signage at the entrance to the tunnel plus other signage notifying drivers that average speed cameras operate within the tunnel.

Not knowing that he was breaking the speed limit when he repeatedly had extremely visible speed limit signs shown to him every few hundred metres within the tunnel is simply not excusable in any way. There is no way the driver did not know what the speed limit was. If he insists he did not know despite the huge amount of signage, then the fact that he will be losing his licence is a good thing as he obviously does not pay attention on the road and is therefore a danger to others.

Amouar

I regularly travel in the motorway and stick to the 120km/h limit (123 km/h on the speedo) and it's crazy the number of cars that follow me very closely behind when overtaking and drive past me a soon as I'm back to the left lane. They should have these cameras in all motorway entrances and exits.

highdef

highdef wrote: »

But the person who has got the 21 points has absolutely no excuse to have not known the speed limit in the port tunnel. There are literally dozens of brightly illuminated electronic signs displaying "80" on them throughout the length of the tunnel plus other regular signage at the entrance to the tunnel plus other signage notifying drivers that average speed cameras operate within the tunnel.

Not knowing that he was breaking the speed limit when he repeatedly had extremely visible speed limit signs shown to him every few hundred metres within the tunnel is simply not excusable in any way. There is no way the driver did not know what the speed limit was. If he insists he did not know despite the huge amount of signage, then the fact that he will be losing his licence is a good thing as he obviously does not pay attention on the road and is therefore a danger to others.

I was just replying to the question as to how you can rack up that many points before notice comes through...

Me wrote:

Should the OP friend have copped the speed limit? Yes

GM228

Miike wrote: »

CiniO wrote: »

As far as I remember reading, if you reach or exceed 12 points, you get 6 months ban, which after expiring resets your penalty points to 0.
That's regardless if you had 12 or over.

However it's purely what I remember and I might be wrong here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/penalty-points-loophole-means-drivers-ignoring-disqualification-benefit-1.3097405

Not from what this article concludes

He will have 12 or the 21 expunged after 6 months ban and have 9 left. Good luck getting insured after a disqualification and still having 9 points

CiniO is correct (to an extent) and the article linked is wrong (to an extent). I say to an extent because both are depending on when points are received.

If you have 12+ points all points you had on the day of your disqualification notice are removed after 6 months. Anything accrued after the day of the notice remains.

So for example if you have 11 points and gain 6 a notice is issued advising you have 17 points and a 6 month ban, all those points are removed after the 6 months.

If in the meantime you gain subsequent points those points then remain. After the date of notice of disqualification you are still permitted to drive legally for a further 28 days and so it is possible to gain more points in the meantime.

highdef

Deleted User wrote: »

I was just replying to the question as to how you can rack up that many points before notice comes through...

Yes, but you said "(often not knowing, to that point, that you did anything wrong)" - this implies that the driver did not observe the speed limit signs. The driver was either very unobservant (in itself quite dangerous) and somehow did not see and react as required when he was presented with dozens of speed limit signs along the length of the tunnel or else he chose to ignore the signs.

I'd be very skeptical if the driver insists that he did not see the signs. I'm pretty sure that he did see them and decided to speed anyway and therefore knew that he was doing wrong.

highdef

highdef wrote: »

Yes, but you said "(often not knowing, to that point, that you did anything wrong)" - this implies that the driver did not observe the speed limit signs. The driver was either very unobservant (in itself quite dangerous) and somehow did not see and react as required when he was presented with dozens of speed limit signs along the length of the tunnel or else he chose to ignore the signs.

I'd be very skeptical if the driver insists that he did not see the signs. I'm pretty sure that he did see them and decided to speed anyway and therefore knew that he was doing wrong.

Again I was referring to a specific question and not the DPT driver, where the poster was shocked that it is possible to accumulate 21 points before notice in, presumably, any scenario.

I've seen people hit with points on stretches of roads where the signage is terrible and the limit drops (and invariably a van gets parked rather than erect better signage) or a limit change has come into effect and people do not notice (how often do you check the signage on a road you drive regularly, when you already "know" the limit).

The second scenario is a prime one for people to get handed several notices in a row, before the first arrives.

Lord Nikon

The speed limit can be woeful in the port tunnel. I remember one Sunday morning going through it and the limit was 60km/h. Everyone was ripping past me.

SBPhoto

tuxy wrote: »

How would you go about contesting this in court?

Use a good solicitor?

Miike

Any updates on this? I'm croaking to know!

16thelegend

Miike wrote: »

Any updates on this? I'm croaking to know!

The latest is....
The points where duplicated lease plan got four fines posted to there office
And the lad in question also got four fines posted out to his address, when lease plan forward them on to the lad he’s thought he got another four fines. Thinking he had 24 points crazy I know
So he reference each fine turns out it’s only four fines so he definitely has 12 points with one fine remaining to pay.
Company have taken the van from him even though technically he is not banned.
He paying the last fine this week I wonder when the ban will kick in?

Hope that makes sense

Miike

16thelegend wrote: »

The latest is....
The points where duplicated lease plan got four fines posted to there office
And the lad in question also got four fines posted out to his address, when lease plan forward them on to the lad he’s thought he got another four fines. Thinking he had 24 points crazy I know
So he reference each fine turns out it’s only four fines so he definitely has 12 points with one fine remaining to pay.
Company have taken the van from him even though technically he is not banned.
He paying the last fine this week I wonder when the ban will kick in?

Hope that makes sense

Yeah I understand - Thanks for the update. I was discussing this today with a colleague who's in a similar position :pac::pac::pac:

16thelegend

Miike wrote: »

Yeah I understand - Thanks for the update. I was discussing this today with a colleague who's in a similar position :pac::pac::pac:

He has 12 points for 3 years after his 6 month ban how many points will he have in his license?
Surely it can’t be zero

Credit Checker Moose

Yes, it will be zero.

16thelegend

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Yes, it will be zero.

That does not make sense it’s a joke

Wailin

16thelegend wrote: »

That does not make sense it’s a joke

Why, the 6 month driving ban and possible job loss isn't enough punishment ffs?

Christ the number of perfect, righteous law abiding citizens is high in here.

16thelegend

Wailin wrote: »

Why, the 6 month driving ban and possible job loss isn't enough punishment ffs?

Christ the number of perfect, righteous law abiding citizens is high in here.

Job is not at risk,

Rubberchikken

can honestly say ive never gone above speed limit.
had a very bad experience in a car with my uncle as a child and its meant that while im not an nervous driver, i dont like speed and i dont like points and i dont want to pay more for my car insurance than i have to but i find it simple to obey the limits. not difficult, really.

fullstop

Lord Nikon wrote: »

The speed limit can be woeful in the port tunnel. I remember one Sunday morning going through it and the limit was 60km/h. Everyone was ripping past me.

The gripe I have with the Port Tunnel is sometimes the limit changes when you're in there. I usually stick the CC on at 80 going in and there have been times half way through that it changes to 60. Those signs on the side are quite small and you don't really notice the change until you're pretty close to them...an 8 looks awfully like a 6 from a distance.