2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

ArnoldJRimmer

Always_Running wrote: »

Neither Dublin or Tyrone will be going full at it this Sunday and both will be resting a number of first choice players with the focus on the AI semi final the following week.(a pity as that could have been a very interesting game in Omagh)

The winner of Donegal v Mayo is at a big disadvantage of playing a well rested side in the semi final one week later.

For the final year of this 3 year trial period its a must that the two round 1 winners play in round 2 which should leave no dead rubbers for round 3. All teams should be given two weeks to prepare for All Ireland semi Finals also.

That would be a final desperate attempt to keep the format alive. What do you do in the case of draws? And how fair is that to supporters who can't plan further than a week ahead?

Teams should definitely be given two weeks to prepare for a semi final though, not sure what the big mad rush is all of a sudden. If the All Ireland final has to be pushed back into September as a result, who cares. Its only two counties whose clubs will have to wait an extra week to get their championship going

manofwisdom

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

That would be a final desperate attempt to keep the format alive. What do you do in the case of draws? And how fair is that to supporters who can't plan further than a week ahead?

Would be little difference to what we currently have with the AI semi finals. For example Tyrone,Dublin already into the semi finals since round 2 but they won't know who they play in those semi finals until after this weekend results.

Bonniedog

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Teams should definitely be given two weeks to prepare for a semi final though, not sure what the big mad rush is all of a sudden. If the All Ireland final has to be pushed back into September as a result, who cares. Its only two counties whose clubs will have to wait an extra week to get their championship going

Condensing the championship is terrible move by GAA.

September finals have dominated the Irish sporting calendar for nearly a century. Its almost now like they are trying to get them out of the way as quickly as possible - playing the hurling and football semi finals over one weekend.

What sort of thinking is it to downplay your headline events? A big thing for schools in participating counties has always been the excitement of first week or third week back with the final being hyped up and kids wearing jerseys, making flags and so on.

Now it will all be over and that inane soap opera cr@p across the Irish Sea the thing they will be talking about in the yard.

Loafing Oaf

Bonniedog wrote: »

Condensing the championship is terrible move by GAA.

Made worse by introducing 'Super' 8s at the same time...

Bass Reeves

Always_Running wrote: »

For the final year of this 3 year trial period its a must that the two round 1 winners play in round 2 which should leave no dead rubbers for round 3. All teams should be given two weeks to prepare for All Ireland semi Finals also.

In theory it sounds good but would that mean Round 2 is played in Croke Park. Why should teams that win be discriminated against. Another flaw is that supporters while they would know there were playing in CP they would not know if it is the first or second game. It would make liitle difference to the Dublin Tyrone group. We wouls still expect Tyrone to beat Cork or Dublin to beat Roscommon if they really needed to in the final game. You will always have dead rubber games no matter what you do. Where the flaw in this project is there is no relegation. there is no punishment for being last if you are already out of the championship.

doc_17

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Bonniedog wrote: »

Condensing the championship is terrible move by GAA.

Made worse by introducing 'Super' 8s at the same time...

A truly stupid act. Mayo or Donegal will be hammered the following Saturday against a team that had 3 weeks to prepare.

Super 8s need to go. They are a disaster. Forget about the dead runner nature for 5 of the teams, the cost some of following your county is becoming a real barrier.

Stoner

I think if people are complaining about paying for games then we are stuffed IMO.

IMO we want more games, just spaced out better with something to win and something to lose, have the home, away and neutral venue sorted out too.

You are not forced to go to the games anyway, its not a tax, you can support your county without going to every game.

Bass Reeves

Stoner wrote: »

I think if people are complaining about paying for games then we are stuffed IMO.

IMO we want more games, just spaced out better with something to win and something to lose, have the home, away and neutral venue sorted out too.

You are not forced to go to the games anyway, its not a tax, you can support your county without going to every game.

This idae that teams need more time between games is ludicrous. All that will happen is county managers will put on more training sessions. With the S8's teams have 2 games a break and 2 games one being a semifinal. An extra weeks break between final round and semifinal would have little effect and would like the old system leaves weeks where there is no games.

As a dual club last autumn as played Hurling games the weekend and football games on Tuesday/Wednesday nights for 3-4 weekends in a row so that a fixture list could be got through. About 8-10 players were starting om both teams. both team managements agreed to do light training of the players involved. It was more recovery session than training. We won the Football and reached the semi final of the Hurling. The best players for both teams were the dual players they became really battle hardened.

Talking to a few around Christmas they all said they really enjoyed it, no worrying about training just make sure you were ready for the game, no managers hassling about training the complete focus was playing the games not training. One player even highlighted that thew were using hurling tactics in football at time and football tactics in hurling. He remembers in one hurling game pushing up on the puckouts as the opposition wanted to go short

ArnoldJRimmer

manofwisdom wrote: »

Would be little difference to what we currently have with the AI semi finals. For example Tyrone,Dublin already into the semi finals since round 2 but they won't know who they play in those semi finals until after this weekend results.

From a supporters perspective, everyone has known that these are in Croke Park since year dot

Taking an example from this year both Cork and Roscommon lost their opening games. Roscommon would then, on short notice, have had to arrange a trip down to Cork

By default, you would think that the second game, containing the provincial champions would almost ensure no dead rubbers in the last game. But the two All Ireland finalists being drawn together in the same group this year skewed it a bit. Only one true dead rubber last year, they're always gonna happen no matter how you game the system

Stoner

some guys pick up injuries, the extra week can make a difference, but I'm not arguing for more time between games, just get the gaps consistent.

Lads seem to be doing more damage in training these days anyway.

The losing provincial finalists, statistically for them, the long wait goes against them, they sit there waiting for a team with momentum that usually beats them, they are out having been beaten twice, the other team get 3 more games and can end up losing 4 games.

The above shows that the team playing more games is in better form than the one sitting and waiting for a game.

doc_17

Stoner wrote: »

I think if people are complaining about paying for games then we are stuffed IMO.

IMO we want more games, just spaced out better with something to win and something to lose, have the home, away and neutral venue sorted out too.

You are not forced to go to the games anyway, its not a tax, you can support your county without going to every game.

What rubbish. And More games? What about the clubs?

doc_17

Just go above into the old QF system and have the finals when they are now.

Stoner

doc_17 wrote:

What rubbish. And More games? What about the clubs?

Many people like the concept of seeing more games involving their county

There is nothing with the amount of games being played at the moment. However teams get runs and build momentum while some have longer gaps between games.

The old format needed a shake up. The super 8s hasn't been the answer in its current format but that doesn't mean we go back to the way it was.

Redsoxfan

Qualifiers plus Quarter Finals were fine by me.

Hopefully go back to that.

'Super' 8s haven't and won't work IMHO.

Coillte_Bhoy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

This idae that teams need more time between games is ludicrous. All that will happen is county managers will put on more training sessions. With the S8's teams have 2 games a break and 2 games one being a semifinal. An extra weeks break between final round and semifinal would have little effect and would like the old system leaves weeks where there is no games.

As a dual club last autumn as played Hurling games the weekend and football games on Tuesday/Wednesday nights for 3-4 weekends in a row so that a fixture list could be got through. About 8-10 players were starting om both teams. both team managements agreed to do light training of the players involved. It was more recovery session than training. We won the Football and reached the semi final of the Hurling. The best players for both teams were the dual players they became really battle hardened.

Talking to a few around Christmas they all said they really enjoyed it, no worrying about training just make sure you were ready for the game, no managers hassling about training the complete focus was playing the games not training. One player even highlighted that thew were using hurling tactics in football at time and football tactics in hurling. He remembers in one hurling game pushing up on the puckouts as the opposition wanted to go short

Yeah because club games and inter county at the business end of the cship are comparable?:rolleyes:

Bass Reeves

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Yeah because club games and inter county at the business end of the cship are comparable?:rolleyes:

Not a whole difference between county players playing 4 games over 5 weeks and club players playing 6-8 games over 5 weeks. Players get sick **** of training. Ask most's county players and they prefer the current system It only supporters that crib about being out week after week

doc_17

Stoner wrote: »

doc_17 wrote:

What rubbish. And More games? What about the clubs?

Many people like the concept of seeing more games involving their county

There is nothing with the amount of games being played at the moment. However teams get runs and build momentum while some have longer gaps between games.

The old format needed a shake up. The super 8s hasn't been the answer in its current format but that doesn't mean we go back to the way it was.

What? A basic 7 games, assuming you win your province for Leinster and Ulster teams between middle of May and start of September is loads. That’s a game every second week or less. Kerry fans don’t want more games to go to, they hardly go to the ones they currently have.

Tell me, who wants these games? Who was shouting for a round robin 2/3 of the way through? Where will these games be played? The vast majority were happy with the level of games being played. There was an issue with the large gaps but that was more to do with keeping tv happy than anything else.

The super 8s have been a complete disaster. The media pushed for reform of championship structures and that’s what led us to this mess. And then inequity of it is staggering.

Mahony0509

Tyrone have made 15 changes for the game vs Dublin.

seligehgit

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Tyrone have made 15 changes for the game vs Dublin.

Presume you're taking the Michael?:D

DDC1990

seligehgit wrote:

Presume you're taking the Michael?

He's not. The pages from the program were posted on Twitter last night. 15 changes.

No Peter Harte or Mattie Donnelly even in the 26.

Diarmuid Connolly named on the Dublin bench, but they have significant changes as well.

Stoner

doc_17 wrote:

The super 8s have been a complete disaster. The media pushed for reform of championship structures and that’s what led us to this mess. And then inequity of it is staggering.

I agree the format hasn't worked.

The inequality is around the home, away and neutral ground issue and the different spacing between games, all fixable

One issue some prominent GAA people had was that the provincial champions got no second chance. Maybe a solution in solving the qualifiers would work.

Anyway we've gone off the subject and should head to a reform thread, sorry all.

Johner

I think Donegal will win very comfortably against Mayo. I’ve seen absolutely nothing in the Championship from Mayo that suggest they can lay a glove on Donegal. I know it’s in Castlebar but I’m very surprised to see the bookies having this as close as they do.

doc_17

yes, apologies for taking it off thread. To finish, Martin Breheny I think it was suggested the 4 provincial winners play each other in the last 8 and then the two winners progress to the semi. The 4 qualifiers play each other and the winners of those play the 2 provincial losers. Solves 1 problem.

To take things back to topic....If PMB is for Donegal will win. If he isn’t then Mayo.

coolshannagh28

Bass Reeves wrote: »

In theory it sounds good but would that mean Round 2 is played in Croke Park. Why should teams that win be discriminated against. Another flaw is that supporters while they would know there were playing in CP they would not know if it is the first or second game. It would make liitle difference to the Dublin Tyrone group. We wouls still expect Tyrone to beat Cork or Dublin to beat Roscommon if they really needed to in the final game. You will always have dead rubber games no matter what you do. Where the flaw in this project is there is no relegation. there is no punishment for being last if you are already out of the championship.

This is the problem with the whole championship format, there is no punishment for failure , just a second chance which suits the stronger teams at the beginning of the championship as they build up a head of steam.
A league would be preferable or a genuine open knockout draw.

rossie1977

Johner wrote: »

I think Donegal will win very comfortably against Mayo. I’ve seen absolutely nothing in the Championship from Mayo that suggest they can lay a glove on Donegal. I know it’s in Castlebar but I’m very surprised to see the bookies having this as close as they do.

Probably looking at previous form. Since 2012 Mayo have been dominant over Donegal including two comfortable championship wins.

Add to the fact as talented as Donegal clearly are this team blew it twice last year at home to Mayo in final league game and at home to Tyrone in final Super 8 game.

And its still Mayo. At the back of everyone's mind there is still at least one more run in this team and its at home. Even if it was Dublin at home you wouldn't completely rule them out.

Topcat32

Redsoxfan wrote: »

Qualifiers plus Quarter Finals were fine by me.

Hopefully go back to that.

'Super' 8s haven't and won't work IMHO.

The August Bank Holiday weekend was the best weekend of the year for Gaelic Football under the old structure and takes place at a time just after most of the big annual global sporting summer events are over and just before the premiership begins so it got loads of media attention. Having only one match of real interest this year is a big step backwards.

jr86

Great to see Dublin and Tyrone treat the super 8s with the respect it deserves

The sooner this farce of an idea ends the better

shockframe

Topcat32 wrote: »

The August Bank Holiday weekend was the best weekend of the year for Gaelic Football under the old structure and takes place at a time just after most of the big annual global sporting summer events are over and just before the premiership begins so it got loads of media attention. Having only one match of real interest this year is a big step backwards.

It was in the 00s but since the 2011 Donegal V Kildare game there was a lack of drama in the 6 years of last 8 games that followed.

The best weekend of football over the last few years have been the semi finals.

You get 1 potentially decent game in the last group stage weekend. Tyrone v Donegal last year was brilliant watching Tyrones last quarter masterclass. Donegal V Mayo could be a decent one tonight.

Having a knockout quarter final stage would have one 50/50 type game at best.

MayoAreMagic

jr86 wrote: »

Great to see Dublin and Tyrone treat the super 8s with the respect it deserves

The sooner this farce of an idea ends the better

They are dead right. 6 day turn around ffs.
I think the super 8s could have worked fine if the gaa used their heads.
For starters, 2 weeks to the semi final and another 2 to the final. Pretty self explanatory.
Secondly, have the cop on to not have the 2 favourites in each group playing each other in the last game. Instead have the 2nd and 3rd favourites playing each other on the last day. It will generally let you avoid the situation in group 2 this year and more often than not repeat the situation in group 1...
The problem isnt the super 8s, its the attitude surrounding them. It is clear it is all about money and it is to the detriment to the intercounty game. I just wonder what it will take for this attitude to finally change?

Coillte_Bhoy

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are dead right. 6 day turn around ffs.
I think the super 8s could have worked fine if the gaa used their heads.
For starters, 2 weeks to the semi final and another 2 to the final. Pretty self explanatory.
Secondly, have the cop on to not have the 2 favourites in each group playing each other in the last game. Instead have the 2nd and 3rd favourites playing each other on the last day. It will generally let you avoid the situation in group 2 this year and more often than not repeat the situation in group 1...
The problem isnt the super 8s, its the attitude surrounding them. It is clear it is all about money and it is to the detriment to the intercounty game. I just wonder what it will take for this attitude to finally change?

So you want to wait to see who qualifier before doing the draw? Thats ridiculous, some sort of advance certainty is needed re dates and venues etc for both supporters and teams