2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

Edgware

C__MC wrote: »

Was writing about the one prior to full time
Stewards should stop supporters from going on the pitch until the full time whistle.

The actual pitch invasion is a thing of beauty and is sorely missed on all Ireland final day

Thoughts?

Regular pitch invasions in Munster, Connacht and Ulster and never heard of an insurance claim.

Poor_old_gill

Lads Cox has been marked out of it regularly at Senior county championship level in Kerry.

I do think he is a talented player but there are lads who aren’t on the panel at the moment who I would class as being better than him- not to mind those lads who are actually there

ProudDUB

C__MC wrote: »

Was writing about the one prior to full time
Stewards should stop supporters from going on the pitch until the full time whistle.

The actual pitch invasion is a thing of beauty and is sorely missed on all Ireland final day

Thoughts?

The players themselves don't want them. Time & time again you read post match interviews from players saying they prefer being able to celebrate the immediate aftermath of the win with their teammates & family, over being swallowed up by a sea of strangers. Surely their opinions matter the most?

RedDevil55

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Lads Cox has been marked out of it regularly at Senior county championship level in Kerry.

You should probably get those man markers in the Kerry team so!

Poor_old_gill

RedDevil55 wrote: »

You should probably get those man markers in the Kerry team so!

A few of them have trained with Kerry- like Ross o Callaghan or Ronan shanahan but have been in and out of the panel.

He does seem to have stepped it up this season but from consistently watching kerry county championship matches- I have never seen anything to say that he is being hard done by not being picked

gormdubhgorm

ProudDUB wrote: »

The players themselves don't want them. Time & time again you read post match interviews from players saying they prefer being able to celebrate the immediate aftermath of the win with their teammates & family, over being swallowed up by a sea of strangers. Surely their opinions matter the most?

Well yesterday Chris Crummy's mother was one of the first out on the pitch.
No crowd was going to stop her.
An out and out GAA woman, it was great to see - I happened to be seated near her during the game.

blowitupref

ProudDUB wrote: »

The players themselves don't want them. Time & time again you read post match interviews from players saying they prefer being able to celebrate the immediate aftermath of the win with their teammates & family, over being swallowed up by a sea of strangers. Surely their opinions matter the most?

I have read the opposite from many players. immediate aftermath in Croke Park after games is as dull as watching paint dry nowadays and the players may as well head straight to the dressing with their teammates and family to celebrate.

ProudDUB

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well yesterday Chris Crummy's mother was one of the first out on the pitch.
No crowd was going to stop her.
An out and out GAA woman, it was great to see - I happened to be seated near her during the game.

We were talking about All Ireland final day at Croke Park with 82,000 in attendance, not provincial games in smaller grounds with smaller crowds.

gormdubhgorm

ProudDUB wrote: »

We were talking about All Ireland final day at Croke Park with 82,000 in attendance, not provincial games in smaller grounds with smaller crowds.

Oh I see, people could get swamped very quickly in that level of crowd in fairness.

gormdubhgorm

Edgware wrote: »

Regular pitch invasions in Munster, Connacht and Ulster and never heard of an insurance claim.

ProudDUB wrote: »

The players themselves don't want them. Time & time again you read post match interviews from players saying they prefer being able to celebrate the immediate aftermath of the win with their teammates & family, over being swallowed up by a sea of strangers. Surely their opinions matter the most?

blowitupref wrote: »

I have read the opposite from many players. immediate aftermath in Croke Park after games is as dull as watching paint dry nowadays and the players may as well head straight to the dressing with their teammates and family to celebrate.

I thought the real reason that pitch invasions were banned in Croke Park was because of insurance claims.

In Moyinhan's GAAconomics book it mentioned there was a couple of claims from people who were injured on the pitch.

Over 15 years ago Breheny wrote an article saying there were 2/3 claims per year in Croke Park as a result of crowd invasions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/euphoric-fans-causing-rise-in-croker-insurance-claims-25901404.html

He wrote again about it in 2006 when the GAA were thinking of making a barrier to stop crowd incursions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/croker-threaten-invasion-action-26375013.html

Insurance claims as a result of crowd invasions have not just happened in Croke Park - see Gaelic Grounds Limerick 2013 - Irish Examiner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/personal-injury-claims-after-limerick-pitch-invasion-253261.html

rossie1977

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Lads Cox has been marked out of it regularly at Senior county championship level in Kerry.

I do think he is a talented player but there are lads who aren’t on the panel at the moment who I would class as being better than him- not to mind those lads who are actually there

Only one player from the four clubs that contested the club semi finals in Roscommon late last year started yesterday. A number of intermediate players started ahead of senior club players.

O'Rourke who was a monster last 15 minutes yesterday plays intermediate level and has been outshined at that level in Roscommon county football on occasion but rises to the challenge at intercounty level since minor.

Kerry have a wealth of options sure but surely 25 year old Cox is better option than 31 year old Walsh who has barely played intercounty last few years. I would imagine O'Shea, Cox, Clifford trio would frighten the sh*t out of most intercounty defences.

theoneeyedman

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought the real reason that pitch invasions were banned in Croke Park was because of insurance claims.

In Moyinhan's GAAconomics book it mentioned there was a couple of claims from people who were injured on the pitch.

Over 15 years ago Breheny wrote an article saying there were 2/3 claims per year in Croke Park as a result of crowd invasions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/euphoric-fans-causing-rise-in-croker-insurance-claims-25901404.html

He wrote again about it in 2006 when the GAA were thinking of making a barrier to stop crowd incursions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/croker-threaten-invasion-action-26375013.html

Insurance claims as a result of crowd invasions have not just happened in Croke Park - see Gaelic Grounds Limerick 2013 - Irish Examiner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/personal-injury-claims-after-limerick-pitch-invasion-253261.html

All that was needed yesterday was a few active stewards on the terrace side in particular.... The gates accessing the pitch were unmanned from where I could see, so having a man at each gate would have held back a lot of the fans, indeed the only thing causing any obstruction was the massive flood of water on the walkway outside the gate. There were ould lads and small kids on the pitch who weren't able to throw a leg over the wire, and poor event management, and yet they say this is a better venue than Dr Hyde Park! They weren't able to look after 17k yesterday, let alone a capacity crowd of 26k.

dog_pig

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I disagree.

If Dublin had won the AI in 2014 or at least gotten to a final and were not defeated in the fashion we were, we would not have overhauled our approach to the game that has been so effective and unbeaten since that fateful day.

Essentially Donegal caused this

Ah it was only Gavin’s hubris that allowed it to happen though.

manofwisdom

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought the real reason that pitch invasions were banned in Croke Park was because of insurance claims.

In Moyinhan's GAAconomics book it mentioned there was a couple of claims from people who were injured on the pitch.

Over 15 years ago Breheny wrote an article saying there were 2/3 claims per year in Croke Park as a result of crowd invasions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/euphoric-fans-causing-rise-in-croker-insurance-claims-25901404.html

He wrote again about it in 2006 when the GAA were thinking of making a barrier to stop crowd incursions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/croker-threaten-invasion-action-26375013.html

Insurance claims as a result of crowd invasions have not just happened in Croke Park - see Gaelic Grounds Limerick 2013 - Irish Examiner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/personal-injury-claims-after-limerick-pitch-invasion-253261.html

That was the media campaign ran by HQ to push a ban on Croke Park pitch celebrations. Using Gaelic grounds as example shows how short they were on solid evidence of insurance claims and supporters aren't banned from entering the field of play in Limerick since, go figure.

Comic Book Guy

theoneeyedman wrote: »

All that was needed yesterday was a few active stewards on the terrace side in particular.... The gates accessing the pitch were unmanned from where I could see, so having a man at each gate would have held back a lot of the fans, indeed the only thing causing any obstruction was the massive flood of water on the walkway outside the gate. There were ould lads and small kids on the pitch who weren't able to throw a leg over the wire, and poor event management, and yet they say this is a better venue than Dr Hyde Park! They weren't able to look after 17k yesterday, let alone a capacity crowd of 26k.

Majority of stewards on terrace opposite the stand had abandoned their posts so everyone just used the gates to access the pitch, I didn't see one person have to climb the perimeter fence.

MattressRick

theoneeyedman wrote: »

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I thought the real reason that pitch invasions were banned in Croke Park was because of insurance claims.

In Moyinhan's GAAconomics book it mentioned there was a couple of claims from people who were injured on the pitch.

Over 15 years ago Breheny wrote an article saying there were 2/3 claims per year in Croke Park as a result of crowd invasions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/euphoric-fans-causing-rise-in-croker-insurance-claims-25901404.html

He wrote again about it in 2006 when the GAA were thinking of making a barrier to stop crowd incursions.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/croker-threaten-invasion-action-26375013.html

Insurance claims as a result of crowd invasions have not just happened in Croke Park - see Gaelic Grounds Limerick 2013 - Irish Examiner

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/personal-injury-claims-after-limerick-pitch-invasion-253261.html

All that was needed yesterday was a few active stewards on the terrace side in particular.... The gates accessing the pitch were unmanned from where I could see, so having a man at each gate would have held back a lot of the fans, indeed the only thing causing any obstruction was the massive flood of water on the walkway outside the gate. There were ould lads and small kids on the pitch who weren't able to throw a leg over the wire, and poor event management, and yet they say this is a better venue than Dr Hyde Park! They weren't able to look after 17k yesterday, let alone a capacity crowd of 26k.

True about the gates. The front of the main terrace is a good foot or two below pitch level. Add in that wall and no kids or middle aged men would've been lepping over a good 5 foot height.

Stoner

Poor_old_gill wrote:

Lads Cox has been marked out of it regularly at Senior county championship level in Kerry.

You wouldn't know though, I often go to club games and watch a county player and wonder how they were picked at all.

There are some of the Dublin players I've seen cleaned out at club level by lads that don't perform at county level or in training possibly, I don't know to be honest, there's a lot more to being an intercounty selector I guess.

We all know about the great club men who don't make the step up, but there are others that hold their best for the county colours too.

Syferus

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Lads Cox has been marked out of it regularly at Senior county championship level in Kerry.

I do think he is a talented player but there are lads who aren’t on the panel at the moment who I would class as being better than him- not to mind those lads who are actually there

The AI should be no bother for Kerry, so

Might as well play the B team in the AISF again whatever lowly team comes second in the other group.

MattressRick wrote: »

True about the gates. The front of the main terrace is a good foot or two below pitch level. Add in that wall and no kids or middle aged men would've been lepping over a good 5 foot height.

I see you don’t know many Roscommon supporters

charlie14

Stoner wrote: »

You wouldn't know though, I often go to club games and watch a county player and wonder how they were picked at all.

There are some of the Dublin players I've seen cleaned out at club level by lads that don't perform at county level or in training possibly, I don't know to be honest, there's a lot more to being an intercounty selector I guess.

We all know about the great club men who don't make the step up, but there are others that hold their best for the county colours too.

Mentioned this years ago to some county forwards and the general consensus was that the quality of ball coming in will generally be better at county level than club and the movement and vision as too what is possibly on is much sharper.

County players do not put in much time training with their clubs nowadays in comparison to their county squad, so they actually know their county team mates better and the system they play too.

patmac

C__MC wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong here...

Yep, anyone complaining about the pitch invasion hasn't a clue about what it feels to win something like yesterday's final.
It's pure joy and there has never been any trouble ever. The snowflake generation to the fore again, GAA fans are not soccer fans or we'd be segregated at all matches.

elefant

patmac wrote: »

The snowflake generation to the fore again,

Vomit.

Poor_old_gill

Stoner wrote: »

You wouldn't know though, I often go to club games and watch a county player and wonder how they were picked at all.

There are some of the Dublin players I've seen cleaned out at club level by lads that don't perform at county level or in training possibly, I don't know to be honest, there's a lot more to being an intercounty selector I guess.

We all know about the great club men who don't make the step up, but there are others that hold their best for the county colours too.

He was in with Kerry for 2/3 years so they obviously had a look at him

Poor_old_gill

Syferus wrote: »

The AI should be no bother for Kerry, so

Might as well play the B team in the AISF again whatever lowly team comes second in the other group.




I see you don’t know many Roscommon supporters

Well that’s a childish enough response to be fair.
He was on what would be deemed to be our B panel- our junior team.

I didn’t say he wasn’t good just that it’s not lot like we let him slip without having a look first. He has been in with the Kerry panel.

Also us not winning all Ireland’s at the moment is not because of our forwards.

As an aside- it would be interesting to see will other counties go down this route as I could name you 10 forwards, minimum, in kerry that aren’t involved with our senior panel who could play intercounty.

BJ Keane
Brian Looney
Tony Brosnan
Jack Savage
Shane o Callaghan
Daithi Casey

And that’s just from 3 clubs

rossie1977

3 league starts in 3 years, one as a 19/20 year old isn't going to tell a lot. Cox reminds me a bit of Brian Reape in Mayo who has barely got a look at senior but has the tools to be standout forward at intercounty.

Few posts now saying Kerry don't have issue with forward line..strange considering Kieran Donaghy was still the go to man at 35 just two summers ago. If you look at games vs Mayo and Galway recently, full forward scoring

Vs Galway 2018 championship D Clifford (1-05, 0-1f), P Geaney (0-02), J O'Donoghue.

vs Galway NFL 2019 Dara Moynihan (0-1), Tommy Walsh, Stephen O’Brien (0-2)

vs Mayo NFL 2019 Kevin McCarthy (0-2), Tommy Walsh (0-1 mark), Stephen O’Brien

vs Mayo NFL Final 2019 David Clifford (0-2), Tommy Walsh, Kevin McCarthy

Poor_old_gill

Lads no one is saying that Cox isn’t a good player but 2 separate Kerry managers have deemed him to not be up to it.

I’ve seen him play at county championship level and he has played well sometimes but also been marked out of it.

I can genuinely think of several forwards who aren’t in the squad at the moment who have regularly performed better than him at club level and probably deserve a go ahead of him.

I can see the reason why he isn’t involved with Kerry

Dots1982

Cox is doing great, being realistic about the modern game though he’s about 4 kgs overweight at least to be performing at his optimum. In the sports science era that matters.

White lighting

rossie1977 wrote: »

3 league starts in 3 years, one as a 19/20 year old isn't going to tell a lot. Cox reminds me a bit of Brian Reape in Mayo who has barely got a look at senior but has the tools to be standout forward at intercounty.

Few posts now saying Kerry don't have issue with forward line..strange considering Kieran Donaghy was still the go to man at 35 just two summers ago. If you look at games vs Mayo and Galway recently, full forward scoring

Vs Galway 2018 championship D Clifford (1-05, 0-1f), P Geaney (0-02), J O'Donoghue.

vs Galway NFL 2019 Dara Moynihan (0-1), Tommy Walsh, Stephen O’Brien (0-2)

vs Mayo NFL 2019 Kevin McCarthy (0-2), Tommy Walsh (0-1 mark), Stephen O’Brien

vs Mayo NFL Final 2019 David Clifford (0-2), Tommy Walsh, Kevin McCarthy

Not sure how you can compare Cox and Reape. One has shot the lights out in college football the other barely makes his college team.
One has shot the lights out this year the other cant make match day squad.
The only thing Reape has is a bit of hype from playing well in club games. Two management teams with Mayo have deemed him not good enough. He couldnt make DCU team at times and has shown nothing to suggest he can be a stand out at inter county level.

rossie1977

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

I can genuinely think of several forwards who aren’t in the squad at the moment who have regularly performed better than him at club level and probably deserve a go ahead of him.

I can see the reason why he isn’t involved with Kerry

Not to turn this into a thread about Cox but if league form picked intercounty players then Donie Shine and Senan Kilbride would still be starting full forwards for Roscommon right now.

Shane Curran, Karl Mannion and Frankie Dolan were the key men (along with Kilbride) playing club All Ireland finals in Croke Park for St Bridgets in 2011-13 and all three were long retired at intercounty level.

Audioslaven

Poor_old_gill wrote: »

Lads no one is saying that Cox isn’t a good player but 2 separate Kerry managers have deemed him to not be up to it.

So what, he is doing the business now. Just because he moved on to another county and has been excellent doesn't mean you have to bring the guys quality down. The Kerry managers you mention have not been racking in the AI.

Footballers mature at different ages - Andy Moran only started to get good at around 26.

Poor_old_gill

Audioslaven wrote: »

So what, he is doing the business now. Just because he moved on to another county and has been excellent doesn't mean you have to bring the guys quality down. The Kerry managers you mention have not been racking in the AI.

Footballers mature at different ages - Andy Moran only started to get good at around 26.

I’m not bringing his quality down at all.

I’m agreeing with the opinion of the Kerry managers who haven’t picked him- he’s a good player but there are better options.

Fitzmaurice is the only coach to win an AI and beat Dublin in any final since Jim Gavin took over.

Peter Keane has a good record wherever he has gone- these lads know a bit about football.

I agree players get better as they get older but, as I keep saying, there are lads not on the Kerry panel who are better than him.

I’ve been watching Cox play for years at club level and added to the list above I would include Conor Keane of legion as being a better option for Kerry.

What will be more interesting is to see will other players follow suit- BJ Keane has a granny from Cavan, jack savage has been shooting the lights out at club level this year and has relations in Westmeath. There’s prob a lot more lads like this