2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

rossie1977

corny wrote: »

O'Rourke did a super job no doubt but lets not forget Monaghan had a good team on paper throughout. It wasn't exactly loaves and fishes stuff.

Vast majority of that Monaghan team that's backboned the last 5-6 years of success ie Beggan, Mone, Wylie, Darren Hughes, Kieran Hughes, McManus, Malone, Corey, Clerkin were playing Division 3 football in 2013.

What he did was exceptional. He took that group, made them best side in Ulster, brought them to Division 1 where they have stayed since and got them within a whisker of an ireland final. He did that in an era of semi professionalism among the big 4 where the top team has had a conveyor belt of young talent to pick since 2010 with four all ireland under 21 wins.

gormdubhgorm

Obrieski wrote: »

I've often wondered, when it's widely known in advance that games are going to be well below full capacity, Croke Park for any of the Leinster championship for example, why don't the GAA go to a couple of clubs in the participating counties and offer massively subsidised or even free tickets to all players up to under 14 or 16 or something? Change the club around each time to get all clubs involved. A half empty stadium looks pathetic

If little Mary came home from training on a Tuesday to say she could go to Croke Park/Pairc Ui Chaoimh that weekend for a fiver it would entice more parents to go, or clubs to organise buses and bump up crowds. Not only would the atmosphere be better but it gets more bums on seats and inspires a next generation. Also, if Mary's county wins, she might want to go to the next game too.

Might take a small hit but if the kids then buy a bar of chocolate or a drink etc it all adds up...plus, the GAA isn't all about money.

I think the GAA know because they estimate the amount of tickets that will be sold based on the 'movement of tickets'
The ideas you mention make sense.
But the GAA are not an organisation known for innovation and marketing, unfortunately.

corny

rossie1977 wrote: »

Vast majority of that Monaghan team that's backboned the last 5-6 years of success ie Beggan, Mone, Wylie, Darren Hughes, Kieran Hughes, McManus, Malone, Corey, Clerkin were playing Division 3 football in 2013.

What he did was exceptional.

Yeah but that wasn't a true reflection of the ability in the camp. 2 years previous they were in Division 1, 2010 Ulster final and a very real threat to the likes of Tyrone and Donegal. Then they went on a bad run under McEneaney to get to Division 3. It can happen.

Look he did a great job and he'll do another good job if he goes elsewhere but some of the posts here would have you believe he was performing miracles with a Leitrim standard side. Thats wide of the mark. Monaghan have had good individuals for quite some time. As Francie referenced there's good development work in the county. Still is. O'Rourke didn't mould a side out of no hopers.

PTH2009

Bonniedog wrote: »

You are accusing the GAA of fixing the draw. with the complicity of a pretty large range of people.

You do know that don't you?


So why not have the balls to come out and say it?


The whole of life is a conspiracy theory for people like you.

It was just a joke no harm intended

As unlikely as it would be but imagine Dublin losing tomorrow and drawing Tyrone or Mayo in the qualifiers

rossie1977

corny wrote: »

As Francie referenced there's good development work in the county. Still is. O'Rourke didn't mould a side out of no hopers.

There is good development in many counties. Sligo e.g have an excellent schools system but they will be playing Division 4 football next year.

Between 2000 and 2015 Monaghan only reached Ulster under 21 final twice (2003 and 2007) both of which they lost suggesting they did not have the same level or numbers of young players ready to step into the senior team that the likes of Tyrone, Donegal or Cavan did.

C__MC

Monaghan is a small county. Banty revived Monaghan football in 2005 but couldn't sail them across the line in defining games. Malachy o Rourke did this with a mixture of old players and new players. Monaghan had some great days but last August left a big chance behind . It hungover the players and they never recovered.

Sonny678

Rain expected today for the leinster final. Very unusual to have a wet rainy day for a leinster final. Many r scorchers eg 1984 1995 1999 2013. But mostly dry. The only really rainy wet leinster finals in last 45 years were 1985 1986 1994 and 1996. 1985 1986 and 1996 are the lowest scoring leinster finals in last 45 years and of course the Meath victories over Dublin in 1986 and 1996 ( along with Offaly in 1987 ) are two biggest shocks in a leinster final in the last 45 years. And it was a wet dirty rainy day.

3 lowest scoring leinster finals in last 40 years
1 1985 Dublin 0- 10 Laois 0- 4
2 1986 Meath 0 - 9 Dublin 0- 7
3 1996 Meath 0- 10 Dublin 0 - 8.

Every time in recent times we played Dublin I wanted wet dirty day. This sort of weather wouldnt be suitable for our teams style of play. But if we are to put it up to Dublin , we need lots of goals ( at least 3 ) or a derby dogfight and rainy dirty day could be ideal for a dogfight.

Dublin could play brillantly in the rain. Of course they can. No problem to them. But Dublin's lowest scoring All Ireland win in this decade was by 0 - 12 in 2015 v kerry on wet dirty rainy day. I definitely think this is one of lowest scoring championship wins Dublin have had in recent years . Rainy wet weather can led to tight close games. It might not. But the biggest shocks in leinster championship final in recent years was on a wet day. For me Meath need this to be a dogfight of a derby and while our style suits dry conditions. A wet day with lots and lots of rain can lead to dogfights. Time will tell.

One other thing McEntee seems to be very good at is motivating players as underdogs in big matchs v strong opposition , basically upping their game v top opposition. As Meath minor manager in 2012 he defeated highly fancied Tyrone team in All Ireland quarter final and highly fancied Mayo team in semi final. He managed Ballyboden to victory as underdogs in Dublin senior club quater final , semi final and final, Ballyboden were big underdogs in all.those games. And with Meath seniors McEntees teams have upped their game and put it up to some of strongest teams in the country.

In the last 2 years and particularly in last 12 months Meath went in as big underdogs v Tyrone and Donegal and performed very well. In last 2 years Meath upped game and beat Galway and drew with Roscommon in Roscommon in the league. And also went toe to toe with Donegal on 3 occasions in 24 months. And were very unlucky not to beat All Ireland finalist Tyrone last year only for point scored in 5th min of injury time by Tyrone.

Even this years Meath performances v Donegal were very strong. In the league final Meath were much better team in the first half and while Donegal were the better team in first half a 2 point loss to Donegal is very credible performance. And Meaths Ballybofey performance was even better. Ballybofey is one toughest places to win in the country, last defeat in the league was in 2010. Kildare were beaten in the league by Donegal in Ballybofey by 15 points. A few weeks earlier Meath played Donegal in Ballybofey and Meath dominated first 63rd min and very unlucky to lose by 2 points.

The point is here every top 8 team Meath have played under McEntee they have upped their game and played very well. Of course Dublin r a different level to everyone else. But Meaths performances v Donegal 3 times , Tyrone, Roscommon and Galway are very encouraging.

Also look at Armagh. Looking very impressive so far in the championship. But Meath played them in the league won by 6 points anc truthfully could have been more as Meath were much the stronger team for most of the game.
Look at Donegals performance in championship so far. Both Meaths performances v Donegal and Armagh show the progress Meath have made in last 12 months . But of course Dublin is the biggest test of all.

soap1978

Banty and Freeman will be the new management team of monaghan

gooseygander

Good post and I enjoyed reading it. Looking at time of post I wonder if u r just back from a few scoops prior to post. Good luck to Meath today but there is no Mick Lyons, Colm Coyle, or David Beggy playing today. Dubs will win without even getting out of third gear. Dubs are streets ahead of every team and the only team that can beat Dublin is themselves. If they don’t retain Sam this year I believe that the only game they can be “caught” in would be an all ireland semi. Best of luck to Meath, I know they won’t lie down. Dubs by 10.

Sonny678 wrote: »

Rain expected today for the leinster final. Very unusual to have a wet rainy day for a leinster final. Many r scorchers eg 1984 1995 1999 2013. But mostly dry. The only really rainy wet leinster finals in last 45 years were 1985 1986 1994 and 1996. 1985 1986 and 1996 are the lowest scoring leinster finals in last 45 years and of course the Meath victories over Dublin in 1986 and 1996 ( along with Offaly in 1987 ) are two biggest shocks in a leinster final in the last 45 years. And it was a wet dirty rainy day.

3 lowest scoring leinster finals in last 40 years
1 1985 Dublin 0- 10 Laois 0- 4
2 1986 Meath 0 - 9 Dublin 0- 7
3 1996 Meath 0- 10 Dublin 0 - 8.

Every time in recent times we played Dublin I wanted wet dirty day. This sort of weather wouldnt be suitable for our teams style of play. But if we are to put it up to Dublin , we need lots of goals ( at least 3 ) or a derby dogfight and rainy dirty day could be ideal for a dogfight.

Dublin could play brillantly in the rain. Of course they can. No problem to them. But Dublin's lowest scoring All Ireland win in this decade was by 0 - 12 in 2015 v kerry on wet dirty rainy day. I definitely think this is one of lowest scoring championship wins Dublin have had in recent years . Rainy wet weather can led to tight close games. It might not. But the biggest shocks in leinster championship final in recent years was on a wet day. For me Meath need this to be a dogfight of a derby and while our style suits dry conditions. A wet day with lots and lots of rain can lead to dogfights. Time will tell.

One other thing McEntee seems to be very good at is motivating players as underdogs in big matchs v strong opposition , basically upping their game v top opposition. As Meath minor manager in 2012 he defeated highly fancied Tyrone team in All Ireland quarter final and highly fancied Mayo team in semi final. He managed Ballyboden to victory as underdogs in Dublin senior club quater final , semi final and final, Ballyboden were big underdogs in all.those games. And with Meath seniors McEntees teams have upped their game and put it up to some of strongest teams in the country.

In the last 2 years and particularly in last 12 months Meath went in as big underdogs v Tyrone and Donegal and performed very well. In last 2 years Meath upped game and beat Galway and drew with Roscommon in Roscommon in the league. And also went toe to toe with Donegal on 3 occasions in 24 months. And were very unlucky not to beat All Ireland finalist Tyrone last year only for point scored in 5th min of injury time by Tyrone.

Even this years Meath performances v Donegal were very strong. In the league final Meath were much better team in the first half and while Donegal were the better team in first half a 2 point loss to Donegal is very credible performance. And Meaths Ballybofey performance was even better. Ballybofey is one toughest places to win in the country, last defeat in the league was in 2010. Kildare were beaten in the league by Donegal in Ballybofey by 15 points. A few weeks earlier Meath played Donegal in Ballybofey and Meath dominated first 63rd min and very unlucky to lose by 2 points.

The point is here every top 8 team Meath have played under McEntee they have upped their game and played very well. Of course Dublin r a different level to everyone else. But Meaths performances v Donegal 3 times , Tyrone, Roscommon and Galway are very encouraging.

Also look at Armagh. Looking very impressive so far in the championship. But Meath played them in the league won by 6 points anc truthfully could have been more as Meath were much the stronger team for most of the game.
Look at Donegals performance in championship so far. Both Meaths performances v Donegal and Armagh show the progress Meath have made in last 12 months . But of course Dublin is the biggest test of all.

Stoner

corny wrote:

Look he did a great job and he'll do another good job if he goes elsewhere but some of the posts here would have you believe he was performing miracles with a Leitrim standard side. Thats wide of the mark. Monaghan have had good individuals for quite some time. As Francie referenced there's good development work in the county. Still is. O'Rourke didn't mould a side out of no hopers.

If agree with this, also on the plan B. They did have one, footballers going man to man. They won a few great games when they just went at it.

They never replaced that lad Lennon in the middle, on his day he could rule the middle as both Donegal and Tyrone found out. The Hughes lads are the same.

He got them fit too, and gave them a system to fall back on. They were good to watch under him imo, but they definitely had footballers and not just McManus, it's not like as if he turned Fermamagh around.

rossie1977

I would say Monaghan were similar level to current Fermanagh when he took over. Championship record pre O'Rourke

2009
Lost quarter final in Ulster 1-10 0-10 to Derry
Lost Round 2 qualifier to Derry 0-20 to 3-16

2010
Lost Ulster final to Tyrone 1-14 to 0-7
Lost Round 4 qualifier to Kildare 1-15 to 1-11

2011
Lost Ulster quarter final to Tyrone 1-13 to 1-11
Lost Round 1 qualifier to Kildare 1-18 to 1-10

2012
Lost Ulster semi to Down 1-14 to 1-13
Lost Round 2 qualifier to Laois 2-12 to 0-12

People can talk potential but between 2009-12 Monaghan didn't win single qualifier game. Pre O'Rourke Monaghan reached two Ulster finals since 1988 most previous in 2010.

Fan of Netflix

Malachy left Monaghan still in Division 1, good starting point for the new manager

recyclebin

Why couldn't they play all the qualifiers last night and have the draw late last night or this morning? As it stands the draw will be Monday morning, then venues need to be decided and the matches will probably be on Saturday. No thought given to players or supporters at all.

FrancieBrady

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Malachy left Monaghan still in Division 1, good starting point for the new manager

Gaelic Life's headline has it spot on.

Orchard men conquer weary Farney Army

Monaghan have been 'weary' all year.

grbear

recyclebin wrote: »

Why couldn't they play all the qualifiers last night and have the draw late last night or this morning? As it stands the draw will be Monday morning, then venues need to be decided and the matches will probably be on Saturday. No thought given to players or supporters at all.

Sligo have two dual players. They were playing in the Nicky Rackard final yesterday so their qualifier match with Offaly was pushed back.

Mahony0509

People laughed at me on here during the week when I said Cork wouldn’t be far off.

theoneeyedman

Absolute scenes in Clones today, where tickets are so scarce for the Ulster final, there are reports of a Cavan man willing to pay face value for a ticket to the game.....

C__MC

Mahony0509 wrote: »

People laughed at me on here during the week when I said Cork wouldn’t be far off.

Cork were never going to win that game. Moral victory but felt like a challenge match. Extremely poor standard by both teams. Half full pitch, no atmosphere. Terrible stuff.

Mahony0509

C__MC wrote: »

Cork were never going to win that game. Moral victory but felt like a challenge match. Extremely poor standard by both teams. Half full pitch, no atmosphere. Terrible stuff.

Hardly gonna expect a full house when there’s two sell-out concerts playing next door and relegation from Div 2.

Itssoeasy

Interesting piece at the start of the Sunday game.

Itssoeasy

Also for all of the success of Dublin they have only equaled what the Kerry team of the 1970’s and 1980’s so it’s not yet utter domination above what other counties have done in years past.

shrewdness

Fair play to Joanne for pushing the questions. I wouldn't expect Whelan to go against Dublin but it's disappointing the other panellists don't delve into it a bit more here.

Itssoeasy

shrewdness wrote: »

Fair play to Joanne for pushing the questions. I wouldn't expect Whelan to go against Dublin but it's disappointing the other panellists don't delve into it a bit more here.

She’s very good in fairness of making sure every panelist gets to make their points.

Call me Al

shrewdness wrote: »

Fair play to Joanne for pushing the questions. I wouldn't expect Whelan to go against Dublin but it's disappointing the other panellists don't delve into it a bit more here.

Whelan is squirming.
He can try to counter-argue but the rest of the country's teams can only dream of funds like that.

Itssoeasy

Jesus pat don’t be mixing politics and sport together.

OldMrBrennan83

Call me Al wrote: »

Whelan is squirming.
He can try to counter-argue but the rest of the country's teams can only dream of funds like that.

He doesn't seem to be countering all that much, maybe you just want him to be.

Itssoeasy

Call me Al wrote: »

shrewdness wrote: »

Fair play to Joanne for pushing the questions. I wouldn't expect Whelan to go against Dublin but it's disappointing the other panellists don't delve into it a bit more here.

Whelan is squirming.
He can try to counter-argue but the rest of the country's teams can only dream of funds like that.

I think the funds they get is like pouring petrol on a fire that’s going well already.

munster87

Pat is hilarious trying his best not to shout over the rest of them and still not managing it.

Poor_old_gill

Even if Pat has a good point- it’ll always come across poorly as his overexcited, shouty delivery is horrendous

Doctor Zhivago

Why aren't Kildare as good? Well over the last 10 years they've been given €700k in funding while Dublin got €17m. That might have something got to do with it.

Whelan badly shown up there.