2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

jr86

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Controversial but I reckon Mayo would give Dublin a better game than Donegal due to styles. Especially in Croke Park.

Yeah, there was very similar talk about Tyrone in 2017 and we all know what happened there

Bonniedog

What makes Donegal a real contender this year is return of Paddy McBrearty.

Not the only one by any means, but they are a different team when he is not there as proven last year.

You can even see it in Murphy who looks like he is enjoying himself again, and has a lot more freedom. and is therefore a lot more dangerous.

We were referring to odds of them making the semis. Honestly cannot see them not making them, and evens to beat Kerry is in my book a great bet.

eagle eye

Well I looked at Donegal and seen a team who get everybody behind the ball and have great pace when they break from the back. I see a team with one of the best footballers in the country, Murphy, and top class forward in McBrearty. They also now have Jamie Brennan who has matured into a fine footballer. They had scores from a lot of players against Cavan and against Tyrone.
If you look at the scores from those two games and removed the name of the winning team I think a lot of people would guess that the winning team was Dublin with the big winning scorelines.

Donegal at this point in time look like a real contender, the only contender outside of Dublin

PressRun

Murphy looks to be in great form, if he can keep the head cool. A black or a red for him in a big game could be trouble for Donegal.

rossie1977

This time last year many were predicting that Galway and Kerry were contenders coming out of the provincials so it's a little too early to make predictions.

Outside Dublin there are probably six teams that could make the semis.

I do think the season spent in Division 2 will likely be detriment to Donegal when it gets to the business end of championship.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I looked at Donegal and seen a team who get everybody behind the ball and have great pace when they break from the back. I see a team with one of the best footballers in the country, Murphy, and top class forward in McBrearty. They also now have Jamie Brennan who has matured into a fine footballer. They had scores from a lot of players against Cavan and against Tyrone.
If you look at the scores from those two games and removed the name of the winning team I think a lot of people would guess that the winning team was Dublin with the big winning scorelines.

Donegal at this point in time look like a real contender, the only contender outside of Dublin

Will that style match up well against Dublin though? They simply won’t give you the turnovers needed to break at pace, they don’t carry the ball in to the tackle and will just recycle it endlessly and wear you down.

More than any other team Mayo in 2016 and 2017 showed how to play Dublin with their high press and manic intensity. Very difficult to replicate though as it requires strong defenders and incredible conditioning. Kerry are trying to play their variation of this at the minute and are stuttering badly.

charlie14

rossie1977 wrote: »

This time last year many were predicting that Galway and Kerry were contenders coming out of the provincials so it's a little too early to make predictions.

Outside Dublin there are probably six teams that could make the semis.

I do think the season spent in Division 2 will likely be detriment to Donegal when it gets to the business end of championship.

If anything I think Division 2 brought Donegal on.

They were able to rest Murphy and some of the older players and there was no pressure on McBrearty to come back until he was fully recovered.
They more or less coasted through Division 2 doing just enough to get out of it, while getting themselves primed for the championship and getting a look at young lads to strengthen their bench from what I could see.


They were only the one year in Div 2 and practically all of the present squad have played Div 1 the previous year, were Ulster champions and played in the Super 8`s so its not as if they do not know what is required at this level.

bucketybuck

eagle eye wrote: »

If you look at the scores from those two games and removed the name of the winning team I think a lot of people would guess that the winning team was Dublin with the big winning scorelines.

What about the 2.16 conceded, would they think that was Dublin?

Donegal were counter attacking in a game they were always in control of, yet still conceded 2.16 against a Cavan team that is good but nowhere near great. They might well be contenders but if I were a Donegal fan I would be worried about that stat.

joe40

bucketybuck wrote: »

What about the 2.16 conceded, would they think that was Dublin?

Donegal were counter attacking in a game they were always in control of, yet still conceded 2.16 against a Cavan team that is good but nowhere near great. They might well be contenders but if I were a Donegal fan I would be worried about that stat.

Agree, I normally lurk on this forum, I enjoy the football but due to lack of real knowledge or experience I'm reluctant comment (so if I'm talking ****e let me know, politely of course)
As a Donegal fan it is exciting times but no one is getting ahead of themselves or underestimating the challenges down the line.

The performance during the cavan game was great but what worries me most there was a spell in the second half where Cavan really ran at Donegal and scored something like 3 unanswered points. Jamie Brennan then scored a goal which nullified that.

The thing is the top teams Dublin, Kerry, Mayo will play like that all the time. Defence will have to be switched on all the time.
Our defence is good I actually love the swarm and the turnover. Defence is not a dirty word so long as it is not your only weapon.

The goals, especially the last one were slack, but I feel if the game was closer they would not have happened.

The fact that Dublin only scored 5 points in a full half should give other counties hope. There is a bit of the Mike Tyson effect about them, especially in Leinster. (Boxers were beat before they got in the ring)

gormdubhgorm

joe40 wrote: »

.
The thing is the top teams Dublin, Kerry, Mayo will play like that all the time. Defence will have to be switched on all the time.
Our defence is good I actually love the swarm and the turnover. Defence is not a dirty word so long as it is not your only weapon.

The goals, especially the last one were slack, but I feel if the game was closer they would not have happened.

The fact that Dublin only scored 5 points in a full half should give other counties hope. There is a bit of the Mike Tyson effect about them, especially in Leinster. (Boxers were beat before they got in the ring)

Agree 100% with this I never understand how most teams always fall into one style or the other for the whole game - defensive or attacking.
Teams should not be afraid to mix it up a few minutes attacking then defensive, depending on the stage/scoreline.

Plus I think teams should go for goals more than points.
In the modern history of the GAA no team has actively perused goals first and points second.
A team could easily work on various moves to get goals - to perfect it.
Be innovative.
Also I have never seen any player attempt to volley a point over the bar.
It would give opposing players no time to close the player down.
It happens in soccer plenty of times - commentator 'oh its over the crossbar' and I think to myself that would have been a great point.

Teams could 'soccer' the ball more, there is nothing in the rules against it.
That would what I would focus on against Dublin - mixing it up, try different things.
I can see Dublin being caught eventually by late goals in that final few minutes period without any time left to react.
In my head I think that is the way this Dublin team will finally beaten.
I hope it is not this year though.

henke

bucketybuck wrote: »

What about the 2.16 conceded, would they think that was Dublin?

Donegal were counter attacking in a game they were always in control of, yet still conceded 2.16 against a Cavan team that is good but nowhere near great. They might well be contenders but if I were a Donegal fan I would be worried about that stat.

Definitely, conceding 2-16 against Cavan wont scare the Dubs at all. They only conceded 5 in the first half and were sloppy to let 2-11 in the second. Even though the game was long won they were a bit slack. Going forward they will need to concentrate for 70+ but I don't think its any harm going into Super 8s with things to work on and I think they can still improve.

Loafing Oaf

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

I reckon Mayo would give Dublin a better game than Donegal

Even after this?:(

https://twitter.com/mayonewssport/status/1143812768241455105

The_Honeybadger

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Even after this?:(

https://twitter.com/mayonewssport/status/1143812768241455105

Jaysus that’s unlucky. Diarmuid is emerging in to one of the best players in the country imo. Huge loss

rossie1977

charlie14 wrote: »

If anything I think Division 2 brought Donegal on.

They were able to rest Murphy and some of the older players and there was no pressure on McBrearty to come back until he was fully recovered.
They more or less coasted through Division 2 doing just enough to get out of it, while getting themselves primed for the championship and getting a look at young lads to strengthen their bench from what I could see.


They were only the one year in Div 2 and practically all of the present squad have played Div 1 the previous year, were Ulster champions and played in the Super 8`s so its not as if they do not know what is required at this level.

As someone who has seen enough Division 2 games over past few years it's no preparation for championship. Division 1 isn't great but its a million miles away from Division 2 standard which completely lacks intensity, tackling or any sort of real defending. It can also lull you into false sense of security and while it's possible to do well in provincial championship because the 2-3 week break during games the next few weeks will see 4 games in 5 weeks for whatever sides makes the semi finals. Unless a team has incredible strength and conditioning it's a tough ask.. Galway made it last year but they were a broken side before the ball was thrown in vs Dublin.

Only one Division 2 side has made it to last 4 since 2010, that being Donegal in 2014. Perhaps they can do it again.

Loafing Oaf

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Jaysus that’s unlucky. Diarmuid is emerging in to one of the best players in the country imo. Huge loss

Also, we must be down to about the sixth choice midfield partner for Aidan O'Shea at this stage.

henke

rossie1977 wrote: »

As someone who has seen enough Division 2 games over past few years it's no preparation for championship. Division 1 isn't great but its a million miles away from Division 2 standard which completely lacks intensity, tackling or any sort of real defending. It can also lull you into false sense of security and while it's possible to do well in provincial championship because the 2-3 week break during games the next few weeks will see 4 games in 5 weeks for whatever sides makes the semi finals. Unless a team has incredible strength and conditioning it's a tough ask.. Galway made it last year but they were a broken side before the ball was thrown in vs Dublin.

Only one Division 2 side has made it to last 4 since 2010, that being Donegal in 2014. Perhaps they can do it again.

That is true but I I don't think one season in Div 2 will do Donegal great harm. A lot of these players have played enough big games and they easily enough accounted for both Tyrone and Cavan who both operated at Div 1 this year and as you say they done it 2014 finishing second and inflicting Jim Gavin's only Championship defeat to date .

The_Honeybadger

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Also, we must be down to about the sixth choice midfield partner for Aidan O'Shea at this stage.

What’s the story with Ruane how long will he be missing?

Loafing Oaf

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

What’s the story with Ruane how long will he be missing?

Broken collar bone, which sounds more serious for a broken wrist, but seemingly can heal in a month in some cases.

manofwisdom

bucketybuck wrote: »

What about the 2.16 conceded, would they think that was Dublin?

Donegal were counter attacking in a game they were always in control of, yet still conceded 2.16 against a Cavan team that is good but nowhere near great. They might well be contenders but if I were a Donegal fan I would be worried about that stat.

Not a stat to be overly worried about, majority of what was conceded happened when the contest was long over. Just two years ago Dublin conceded 1-17 to Kildare.

rossie1977

henke wrote: »

That is true but I I don't think one season in Div 2 will do Donegal great harm. A lot of these players have played enough big games and they easily enough accounted for both Tyrone and Cavan who both operated at Div 1 this year and as you say they done it 2014 finishing second and inflicting Jim Gavin's only Championship defeat to date .

Again they might but you only have to look at Tyrone or Galways 2016 campaigns for reference. Both played in Division 2 that year, both looked very impressive in their provincial championship despatching Division 1 outfits.

dog_pig

rossie1977 wrote: »

As someone who has seen enough Division 2 games over past few years it's no preparation for championship. Division 1 isn't great but its a million miles away from Division 2 standard which completely lacks intensity, tackling or any sort of real defending. It can also lull you into false sense of security and while it's possible to do well in provincial championship because the 2-3 week break during games the next few weeks will see 4 games in 5 weeks for whatever sides makes the semi finals. Unless a team has incredible strength and conditioning it's a tough ask.. Galway made it last year but they were a broken side before the ball was thrown in vs Dublin.

Only one Division 2 side has made it to last 4 since 2010, that being Donegal in 2014. Perhaps they can do it again.

Donegal reached the semi final in 2011 coming from Division 2.

PressRun

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Broken collar bone, which sounds more serious for a broken wrist, but seemingly can heal in a month in some cases.

It can heal quickly, but I'd say he's looking at 6 weeks at least, and then has to get back up to speed with match fitness, etc. I don't think we'll still be in the championship if/when he'd even be eligible to make an appearance again

jr86

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Jaysus that’s unlucky. Diarmuid is emerging in to one of the best players in the country imo. Huge loss

Yeah a lot of talk about Donegal's performance at the weekend, however Dublin's opposition will actually be playing a division above cavan next year, yet no-one bats an eyelid, in fact some even cite their "sloppy-ness" after cantering to a 16 point win and conceding absolutely feck all scores! Aswell as that they waltzed to victory over a side who played super 8's last year and knocked out Mayo

Yes, Donegal also had a fine win over Tyrone and there's no doubt they're having a fine campaign, but it must look very unusual to a complete outside observer if you showed them how both teams are being compared. I think people are going out of their way to try and big up a challenger each year, as the most likely reality (Dublin winning the AI without a massive challenge) is too sobering to consider, for non-Dubliners. We had the same with Tyrone in 2016, kerry in April 2017, Tyrone in July 2017, and Galway last year.

charlie14

rossie1977 wrote: »

As someone who has seen enough Division 2 games over past few years it's no preparation for championship. Division 1 isn't great but its a million miles away from Division 2 standard which completely lacks intensity, tackling or any sort of real defending. It can also lull you into false sense of security and while it's possible to do well in provincial championship because the 2-3 week break during games the next few weeks will see 4 games in 5 weeks for whatever sides makes the semi finals. Unless a team has incredible strength and conditioning it's a tough ask.. Galway made it last year but they were a broken side before the ball was thrown in vs Dublin.

Only one Division 2 side has made it to last 4 since 2010, that being Donegal in 2014. Perhaps they can do it again.

Donegal made it to the last 2 in 2014 by beating a team that was then also rated by all and sundry as unbeatable in the last 4. Dublin.

joe40

jr86 wrote: »

Yeah a lot of talk about Donegal's performance at the weekend, however Dublin's opposition will actually be playing a division above cavan next year, yet no-one bats an eyelid, in fact some even cite their "sloppy-ness" after cantering to a 16 point win and conceding absolutely feck all scores! Aswell as that they waltzed to victory over a side who played super 8's last year and knocked out Mayo

Yes, Donegal also had a fine win over Tyrone and there's no doubt they're having a fine campaign, but it must look very unusual to a complete outside observer if you showed them how both teams are being compared. I think people are going out of their way to try and big up a challenger each year, as the most likely reality (Dublin winning the AI without a massive challenge) is too sobering to consider, for non-Dubliners. We had the same with Tyrone in 2016, kerry in April 2017, Tyrone in July 2017, and Galway last year.

Yeah but that is the way sport goes. Everyone knows that by far the most likely outcome is Dublin AI winners but other teams must have hope and ambition otherwise what is the point.
Apart from everything else it is Dublin's level of consistency that is amazing, every other team can ebb and flow, good days bad days, good season, bad seasons but not Dublin in recent times.
As a hypothetical if Dublin was removed from the competition this year it would be a very hard call to predict a winner.
Dublin will eventually be beat, but it is up to everyone else to raise their game.

Loafing Oaf

joe40 wrote: »

Apart from everything else it is Dublin's level of consistency that is amazing, every other team can ebb and flow, good days bad days, good season, bad seasons but not Dublin in recent times.

You have the impression Jim Gavin swore he would never permit another 'freak' defeat of his team after the 2014 semi-final, and their approach since then has made it almost impossible to score a 'soft' goal against them. Of course the downside of this is it often takes them a while to build up a decent score themselves, as in Sunday's Leinster final, but they're so professional they don't worry about that.

dog_pig

dog_pig wrote: »

Donegal reached the semi final in 2011 coming from Division 2.

Also Tipperary reached the semi final in 2016 coming from Division 3.

charlie14

jr86 wrote: »

Yeah a lot of talk about Donegal's performance at the weekend, however Dublin's opposition will actually be playing a division above cavan next year, yet no-one bats an eyelid, in fact some even cite their "sloppy-ness" after cantering to a 16 point win and conceding absolutely feck all scores! Aswell as that they waltzed to victory over a side who played super 8's last year and knocked out Mayo

Yes, Donegal also had a fine win over Tyrone and there's no doubt they're having a fine campaign, but it must look very unusual to a complete outside observer if you showed them how both teams are being compared. I think people are going out of their way to try and big up a challenger each year, as the most likely reality (Dublin winning the AI without a massive challenge) is too sobering to consider, for non-Dubliners. We had the same with Tyrone in 2016, kerry in April 2017, Tyrone in July 2017, and Galway last year.

I don`t believe anyone in Donegal with a bit of sense is getting carried away by the win over Cavan. Or indeed, even the win over Tyrone. Other than it was encouraging with them being a monkey on Donegal`s back for the past three years.

This is in the main a young Donegal team in transition under new management playing a more expansive style of football than in the past where the players look to be actually enjoying being allowed to express themselves with the management looking to strengthen their bench. The lack of a a bench imho, plus the loss of McBrearty, was their downfall in not progressing beyond the Super 8`s last year.
Few Donegal supporters or management will pass much remarks on the media who didn`t rate this team a few weeks ago and are only doing so now because the sides they had rated able to give the Dubs a game now look as if they have gone back since last year.

Donegal supporters were looking for this team to progress from last year with an eye to an AI down the road. If they are in the mix later on this year, well and good. If not then so be it, but with back to back Ulster titles and the style of football they are playing, are happy that they are going in the right direction.

manofwisdom

dog_pig wrote: »

Also Tipperary reached the semi final in 2016 coming from Division 3.

That type of underdog story was more or less eliminated with the introduction of a group stage for the last 8.

rossie1977

dog_pig wrote: »

Also Tipperary reached the semi final in 2016 coming from Division 3.

Way system is setup now that likely won't ever happen again. Offaly, Laois or Westmeath are not finishing top 2 in their group this year e.g