2019 All Ireland Senior Football Championship *Mod note: Post #1*

Always_Running

Barlett wrote: »

Maybe I'll be proven wrong but I think it's rubbish - if the whole thing was spread out better it might work, there's no breathing space for anything, if you make a semi final, no time to enjoyt the build up. It's been very disappointing so far.

Another major flaw in this new format, how and why it wasn't change last year i don't know.

ShlugEireann

Super 8s is crap.

You can lose two games and still win the thing outright. Shouldn't happen.

Coillte_Bhoy

ShlugEireann wrote: »

Super 8s is crap.

You can lose two games and still win the thing outright. Shouldn't happen.

As in most competitions where a round robin leads to a knockout then, a statistical possibility yes, but highly unlikely to ever happen and anyway hardly a reason to oppose the super 8's.

Loafing Oaf

In terms of the overall health of the sport, I would have thought the emphasis in reforming the championship structure should have been on providing more games in the early stages, perhaps running the provincial championships on a league basis? I didn't see much problem with the way the last 8 was structured under the old system.

agfasfos

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

I'd like to be optimistic about it, but the most likely scenario this year is that Throne will beat Cavan, followed by relatively easy wins in their first two games in the Super 8's. Dublin will obviously win their two home games, leaving a dead rubber for the final game in Omagh. Just how the fixtures have panned out, but that group is unlikely to be very exciting. Although maybe Cavan will go through, and maybe Roscommon will surprise me. You never know

The other group could be very good, but the excitement has been taken out of it by the prospect of neither game being on TV on the opening weekend

Sky might show the first round matches in the Super 8's ??

hardybuck

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

In terms of the overall health of the sport, I would have thought the emphasis in reforming the championship structure should have been on providing more games in the early stages, perhaps running the provincial championships on a league basis? I didn't see much problem with the way the last 8 was structured under the old system.

Scrap the league and play the provincial stuff at the start of the year, but there must be a way for lower ranked teams to win their way into the All Ireland series rather than being locked out of it.

threeball

hardybuck wrote: »

Scrap the league and play the provincial stuff at the start of the year, but there must be a way for lower ranked teams to win their way into the All Ireland series rather than being locked out of it.

There is and the key is the league.

The provincials should be played as a separate competition.

The league should be divided in 3 groups with 2 relegated or promoted from each division. At the end of the league if you're in or got promoted to Division 1 or 2 then you get to play in a straight knockout all ireland series. If you got relegated to division 3 you play for a 2nd tier All Ireland.

Everyone gets almost the same amount of games, you always have a chance of being in the all ireland if your form warrants it and theres no rubbish back doors, side doors, super 8s nonsense. Very straight forward and clean.

hardybuck

threeball wrote: »

There is and the key is the league.

The provincials should be played as a separate competition.

The league should be divided in 3 groups with 2 relegated or promoted from each division. At the end of the league if you're in or got promoted to Division 1 or 2 then you get to play in a straight knockout all ireland series. If you got relegated to division 3 you play for a 2nd tier All Ireland.

Everyone gets almost the same amount of games, you always have a chance of being in the all ireland if your form warrants it and theres no rubbish back doors, side doors, super 8s nonsense. Very straight forward and clean.

Potentially workable, but they'd need to play the All Ireland Club Finals within the calendar year I think - which they should be doing anyway.

Hulk Hands

Always_Running wrote: »

Another major flaw in this new format, how and why it wasn't change last year i don't know.

This is crap alright. there's no buildup whatsoever to the semi final, and one team is on a 6 day turnaround. There's no need for the gap in the middle of the Super 8s, play it off and put the week between the semis

threeball

hardybuck wrote: »

Potentially workable, but they'd need to play the All Ireland Club Finals within the calendar year I think - which they should be doing anyway.

Yes they should and theres not that many more games going this way.

1 to 3 provincial games

11 league games

1 to 4 knockout championship

If you won every single one you'd still only play 18 games which is about the same as now between pre season tournaments, league, super 8's, back door etc.

You'd have a proper calendar too

Loafing Oaf

hardybuck wrote: »

Scrap the league and play the provincial stuff at the start of the year, but there must be a way for lower ranked teams to win their way into the All Ireland series rather than being locked out of it.

Here's my proposal on the back of a digital envelope:P:

Split Leinster and Ulster in two (chucking New York and London in with the latter) so you have six mini-leagues with a guaranteed four or five games for everyone. Top two in each plus best third places qualify for the all-Ireland series, which has four straight knockout rounds.

Nidgeweasel

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Here's my proposal on the back of a digital envelope:P:

Split Leinster and Ulster in two (chucking New York and London in with the latter) so you have six mini-leagues with a guaranteed four or five games for everyone. Top two in each plus best third places qualify for the all-Ireland series, which has four straight knockout rounds.

Ulster says no.

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Here's my proposal on the back of a digital envelope:P:

Split Leinster and Ulster in two (chucking New York and London in with the latter) so you have six mini-leagues with a guaranteed four or five games for everyone. Top two in each plus best third places qualify for the all-Ireland series, which has four straight knockout rounds.

Ulster is the only really competitive championship so I would not see how messing it up as well would help.
Besides, Ulster supporters like their championship just the way it is and would never agree.
Any Ulster delegates who voted for that proposal would, for their own wellness be best advised to check for accommodation in another province. Or indeed a far far away universe.

Loafing Oaf

charlie14 wrote: »

Ulster is the only really competitive championship so I would not see how messing it up as well would help.
Besides, Ulster supporters like their championship just the way it is and would never agree.
Any Ulster delegates who voted for that proposal would, for their own wellness be best advised to check for accommodation in another province. Or indeed a far far away universe.

Well 'West Ulster' and 'East Ulster' should still both be competitive, plus everyone is guaranteed four or five games. And you could still have a playoff between the winners of the two to be that year's 'Ulster champion.' I'm basically trying to replicate the current hurling championship structure, except it's not straightforward in football because of the imbalance in teams per province.

StupidLikeAFox

I'll speak up for the super 8s.

1. You get more games at the business end of the championship
2. You get to see the top teams against each other more often
3. If you had an earlier group stage there would be a lot more one sided games
4. It spreads proper championship games around the country giving regional towns and stadiums more events and giving supporters an away day
5. It gives the round 4 qualifiers a bit more meaning.

Coillte_Bhoy

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

I'd like to be optimistic about it, but the most likely scenario this year is that Throne will beat Cavan, followed by relatively easy wins in their first two games in the Super 8's. Dublin will obviously win their two home games, leaving a dead rubber for the final game in Omagh. Just how the fixtures have panned out, but that group is unlikely to be very exciting. Although maybe Cavan will go through, and maybe Roscommon will surprise me. You never know

The other group could be very good, but the excitement has been taken out of it by the prospect of neither game being on TV on the opening weekend

Because its clashing with the hurling? Whats the crack with GAA GO, could the Sunday football games be on there i wonder?

ArnoldJRimmer

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

I'll speak up for the super 8s.

1. You get more games at the business end of the championship
2. You get to see the top teams against each other more often
3. If you had an earlier group stage there would be a lot more one sided games
4. It spreads proper championship games around the country giving regional towns and stadiums more events and giving supporters an away day
5. It gives the round 4 qualifiers a bit more meaning.

Its a great idea in theory, but it needs 8 teams operating at a similar level, which is not currently the case. So bad timing more than anything. It would have been unbelievable in the 90s, and even though Kerry and Tyrone dominated the big prize in the 2000's, the also rans were a lot closer.

ArnoldJRimmer

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Because its clashing with the hurling? Whats the crack with GAA GO, could the Sunday football games be on there i wonder?

Yes, RTE will pretty much always go with the hurling over football. Not a hope in hell the Donegal match will be shown, there's some hope for the second game since Dublin are not a Munster team or Kilkenny. GAA GO is what I rely on, but it can only show what is available on RTE and Sky, no additional options

Coillte_Bhoy

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Yes, RTE will pretty much always go with the hurling over football. Not a hope in hell the Donegal match will be shown, there's some hope for the second game since Dublin are not a Munster team or Kilkenny. GAA GO is what I rely on, but it can only show what is available on RTE and Sky, no additional options

Just looking at RTE's schedule there and they have listed

July 14

AISHC Quarter Final OR AISFC Quarter Final, Rd 1

charlie14

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well 'West Ulster' and 'East Ulster' should still both be competitive, plus everyone is guaranteed four or five games. And you could still have a playoff between the winners of the two to be that year's 'Ulster champion.' I'm basically trying to replicate the current hurling championship structure, except it's not straightforward in football because of the imbalance in teams per province.

Not a hope of Ulster buying into it imho. Especially with other non Ulster teams competing in their championship. Ulster supporters like it just te way it is. Regardless of which Ulster counties that are playing, generally there is always a bit of an edge in each game which the supporters love, and it is the most competitive of all the provinces. Cavan made the final this year and Fermanagh last year.
If I was making one change it would be having Ulster referees and linesmen only as these non Ulster officials just don`t really seem to get what has made the Ulster championship so enjoyable over the years for supporters.
To quote an old now passed Ulster radio commentator
"It`s Ulster Senior Championship football. No places for mammies boys"

wirelessdude01

hardybuck wrote:

Potentially workable, but they'd need to play the All Ireland Club Finals within the calendar year I think - which they should be doing anyway.

This is the plan from 2021 if John Horan gets his way. Already moved to January as it is.

FrancieBrady

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Here's my proposal on the back of a digital envelope:P:

Split Leinster and Ulster in two (chucking New York and London in with the latter) so you have six mini-leagues with a guaranteed four or five games for everyone. Top two in each plus best third places qualify for the all-Ireland series, which has four straight knockout rounds.

You have wrecked your own and others provinces and now you want to wreck ours? Up the yard!

dunnerc

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Its a great idea in theory, but it needs 8 teams operating at a similar level, which is not currently the case. So bad timing more than anything. It would have been unbelievable in the 90s, and even though Kerry and Tyrone dominated the big prize in the 2000's, the also rans were a lot closer.

They were ?
Tyrone hammered Dublin in 2008 by 12pts
Kerry hammered Dublin in 2009 by 17pts

Yea the also rans were a lot closer :rolleyes:

Fann Linn

dunnerc wrote: »

They were ?
Tyrone hammered Dublin in 2008 by 12pts
Kerry hammered Dublin in 2009 by 17pts

Yea the also rans were a lot closer :rolleyes:

'Startled earwigs', if I recall correctly was the phrase.

Bonniedog

Fann Linn wrote: »

'Startled earwigs', if I recall correctly was the phrase.

That was before Dublin started to bribe refs and play matches out of their heads on steroids, man

Fann Linn

Bonniedog wrote: »

That was before Dublin started to bribe refs and play matches out of their heads on steroids, man

Yep. Hard to believe some of those same earwigs have Celtic crosses now.

ArnoldJRimmer

dunnerc wrote: »

They were ?
Tyrone hammered Dublin in 2008 by 12pts
Kerry hammered Dublin in 2009 by 17pts

Yea the also rans were a lot closer :rolleyes:

You're cherry picking there. In 2008, that was the only hammering from quarter final onwards, in 2009, Cork beat Donegal by a cricket score, but all other games were relatively close.

Kerry were the most consistent team, but even they took a tanking from Meath, lost an All Ireland final to Armagh, and some Munster Finals to Cork. In between 2003 and 2008 when Tyrone won their 3, they lost to Donegal, Mayo, Armagh, Derry, Laois and Meath. Dublin were involved in some narrow defeats too while trying to make that breakthrough

Hulk Hands

dunnerc wrote: »

They were ?
Tyrone hammered Dublin in 2008 by 12pts
Kerry hammered Dublin in 2009 by 17pts

Yea the also rans were a lot closer :rolleyes:

Of course they were closer. Cork went into the 2009 final as favourites over Kerry after beating Tyrone well in the semi. Down beat AI champs Kerry the following year and reached a final. There were plenty of teams all near the same level around that time

The_Honeybadger

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Of course they were closer. Cork went into the 2009 final as favourites over Kerry after beating Tyrone well in the semi. Down beat AI champs Kerry the following year and reached a final. There were plenty of teams all near the same level around that time

That was a good decade of football Tyrone, Kerry, Armagh and Cork all won Sam and had very good teams and Meath and Galway were very strong earlier in the decade. Mayo were also good and teams generally speaking were much closer.

Nothing will beat the 90’s though, different winner every year and anybody could beat anybody from the semi final stage on it was brilliant. We will probably never see the like again.

Blinky Plebum

charlie14 wrote: »

Ulster is the only really competitive championship so I would not see how messing it up as well would help.
Besides, Ulster supporters like their championship just the way it is and would never agree.
Any Ulster delegates who voted for that proposal would, for their own wellness be best advised to check for accommodation in another province. Or indeed a far far away universe.

Which is the problem with the GAA being so democratic.

Nobody sees the bigger picture, they just vote for what is good for their county and not for the sport as a whole.

Too much self interest from people who have an influence on decisions has held back the GAA so much over the years.