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fire fear

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  • 14-04-2019 3:07pm
    #1
    7znbd9xmoiupye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭


    In a two bed semi d, if one went on fire how likely would it be to spread to the other? This situation has unlawful, unknown to local authority, extra 'bedrooms' in it for weeked visitors.


    is there a law re how many can be in a two bed semi d? is there a relationship between how many are in a house and risk of fire


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    #2
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Semi d’s have separation/fire wall.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t need planning for extensions below a certain size so if it’s one bedroom it may not require planning.

    If you own a house, you can have as many guests as you want staying there.

    Re fire risk, there is usually a simple cause like cooking/smoking/electrical faults which have nothing to do with guests staying there.

    Sounds like you have a problem with your neighbour.


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    #3
    7znbd9xmoiupye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭7znbd9xmoiupye


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Semi d’s have separation/fire wall.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t need planning for extensions below a certain size so if it’s one bedroom it may not require planning.

    If you own a house, you can have as many guests as you want staying there.

    Re fire risk, there is usually a simple cause like cooking/smoking/electrical faults which have nothing to do with guests staying there.

    Sounds like you have a problem with your neighbour.
    it is not my neighbour and the answers to the question is what i am interested in

    does a separation fire wall guarantee it will not spread. also the word 'bedrooms' was in quotes for a reason.


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    #4
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    it is not my neighbour and the answers to the question is what i am interested in

    does a separation fire wall guarantee it will not spread. also the word 'bedrooms' was in quotes for a reason.

    As far as I know, house insurance for semi d is higher because of the risk of damage from your neighbour. But that should have been evident/considered the moment you looked at it.

    Incidentally, the risk of fire damage is the same for them coming from your house. Any improvements on fire protection will be shared costs between you both.


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    #5
    7znbd9xmoiupye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭7znbd9xmoiupye


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As far as I know, house insurance for semi d is higher because of the risk of damage from your neighbour. But that should have been evident/considered the moment you looked at it.

    Incidentally, the risk of fire damage is the same for them coming from your house. Any improvements on fire protection will be shared costs between you both.
    it is not my house but i disagree the risk is the same both ways. there are more people than should be in the one with the extra 'rooms'. the more people the more risk one will do something


    the situation was different when the person looked at it. there were no extra rooms or people then


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    #6
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    it is not my house but i disagree the risk is the same both ways. there are more people than should be in the one with the extra 'rooms'. the more people the more risk one will do something


    the situation was different when the person looked at it. there were no extra rooms or people then

    It’s a dividing wall, it belongs to both properties. Therefore if you want to upgrade, both pay.

    If you live by yourself and smoke/have an open fireplace, you are a greater risk than 5 non smokers and no fireplace. It has nothing to do with the numbers who live there. Contact your insurance company for clarification.

    If you think planning rules have been broken, contact the CoCo, but the rooms didn’t just appear so you should have objected.


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    #7
    Johnnyhpipe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Johnnyhpipe


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    it is not my house but i disagree the risk is the same both ways. there are more people than should be in the one with the extra 'rooms'. the more people the more risk one will do something


    the situation was different when the person looked at it. there were no extra rooms or people then

    More people - possibly more risk since it naturally increases the chances of someone doing something stupid.

    Is it illegal? No.


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,523 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Johnnyhpipe wrote: »
    More people - possibly more risk since it naturally increases the chances of someone doing something stupid.

    Is it illegal? No.

    Aren’t unoccupied houses considered higher risk? I remember an insurance premium being much more expensive years ago when I bought a house and had to wait for planning.


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    #9
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    In a two bed semi d, if one went on fire how likely would it be to spread to the other? This situation has unlawful, unknown to local authority, extra 'bedrooms' in it for weeked visitors.


    is there a law re how many can be in a two bed semi d? is there a relationship between how many are in a house and risk of fire

    In individual dwellings the party wall is designed to stop fire spread for a certain amount of time. It is not designed to stop a fire permanently.

    Once sufficient time elapses to allow escape then your covered.

    I as a home owner can have 12 people in my
    House or 3 people. That’s my choice. If it’s a rented dwelling there’s there’s an environmental health regulation that limits the amount of people per square meter of a property but it’s in environmental health reasons, not fire.

    6 non smokers on one side is just as risky as one smoker on the other side of party wall.


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    #10
    dennyk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,701 ✭✭✭dennyk


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Aren’t unoccupied houses considered higher risk? I remember an insurance premium being much more expensive years ago when I bought a house and had to wait for planning.

    Unoccupied houses are a higher risk to insure because they are much more likely to experience burglary or criminal damage (no occupants to discourage random scumbags or even squatters from having their way with the place) and to suffer from neglect or issues like broken plumbing, electrical faults, leaks, weather damage, subsidence, etc. that would likely have been noticed and promptly addressed in an occupied property before more serious damage could occur (imagine a pipe or roof leaking for months that ends up flooding the place and causing mold and rot because the owner only checks on it every once in a while). I don't know if they're necessarily more likely to catch fire than an occupied property (though they may not be much less likely, as electrical faults are a pretty common cause of house fires, and again, squatters or vandals could well set the place on fire too), but they are more likely to be a significant or total loss if something does start a fire (not to mention a liability risk for damage to neighbouring properties) as there isn't anyone around to notice and call emergency services to address it before it had engulfed the place completely.


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    #11
    7znbd9xmoiupye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭7znbd9xmoiupye


    Dav010 wrote: »
    It’s a dividing wall, it belongs to both properties. Therefore if you want to upgrade, both pay.

    If you live by yourself and smoke/have an open fireplace, you are a greater risk than 5 non smokers and no fireplace. It has nothing to do with the numbers who live there. Contact your insurance company for clarification.

    If you think planning rules have been broken, contact the CoCo, but the rooms didn’t just appear so you should have objected.
    third time. it's not my home
    the couple who live there do not smoke or have an open fire
    they do not own the house
    the people beside them do not own the house
    no planning application was made
    they are not real proper rooms
    and since you can't be bothered to read the question i will not be responding to you again


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    #12
    7znbd9xmoiupye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 126 ✭✭7znbd9xmoiupye


    kceire wrote: »
    In individual dwellings the party wall is designed to stop fire spread for a certain amount of time. It is not designed to stop a fire permanently.

    Once sufficient time elapses to allow escape then your covered.

    I as a home owner can have 12 people in my
    House or 3 people. That’s my choice. If it’s a rented dwelling there’s there’s an environmental health regulation that limits the amount of people per square meter of a property but it’s in environmental health reasons, not fire.

    6 non smokers on one side is just as risky as one smoker on the other side of party wall.
    that is my concern. it is an elderly couple living in the house referred to. Not sure how quick they could get out


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    #13
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 17,069 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote:
    does a separation fire wall guarantee it will not spread. also the word 'bedrooms' was in quotes for a reason.


    A fire wall stops the spread of fire for a number of hours.

    In answer to your question does the more guests increase the chances of fire. I'm not sure of the answer to that but the more living in the house the better the chance of someone discovering a fire & catching it early. A huge amount of house fires are in a house with only one person living there


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    #14
    voluntary
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭voluntary


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    it is not my neighbour and the answers to the question is what i am interested in

    does a separation fire wall guarantee it will not spread. also the word 'bedrooms' was in quotes for a reason.

    "The blaze two years ago spread across six houses in just 25 minutes. "

    https://www.thejournal.ie/report-into-fire-that-destroyed-six-kildare-homes-finds-houses-not-in-compliance-with-building-regulations-3576979-Sep2017/


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    #15
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    that is my concern. it is an elderly couple living in the house referred to. Not sure how quick they could get out

    Install smoke detectors and ensure they have an evacuation plan.
    If they are close to you, then guide them on how to do this.

    The most common location for a fore to start in the home is the kitchen, after that its any other room where smokers fall asleep and the cig burns something. Then you have electrical appliances etc

    If they are elderly, the bigger risk is a fire from within their own home, not from next door. Realistically, a fire from next door will take longer to pass into their home even with really bad party walls, then it would from a fire in their home to spread.


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    #16
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,402 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    WesternGuy wrote: »
    In a two bed semi d, if one went on fire how likely would it be to spread to the other?
    Generally, the fire brigade can control a fire before it spreads to other units.

    Is there a solid wall (brick, concrete or concrete block) 215mm or more think, between the two house that continues all the way to the roof and is sealed at the roof? If so, this is generally considered acceptable. One could also use a timber framed partition with sufficient layers of plasterboard, but this is in disrepute, due to skimping and poor workmanship.

    As mentioned, small rear extensions are permitted without planning permission, provided they follow they rules.

    If an attic has been converted to bedrooms, there may be planning permission, building regulation / fire safety and public health issues (number of bathrooms, etc.).

    Conversion of a living room to a bedroom generally isn't a problem.

    The Housing Acts have limits on the number of people per bedroom for over-crowding purposes.
    This situation has unlawful, unknown to local authority, extra 'bedrooms' in it for weeked visitors.
    This sounds like a euphemism. Do you want to tell us what you mean?
    is there a law re how many can be in a two bed semi d?
    No.
    is there a relationship between how many are in a house and risk of fire
    It's an indirect relationship. Heat creation sources are the main cause of fires, with kitchens (especially deep fat fryers) being the worst, followed by open fires, smoking, electrical systems, boilers and immersion tanks. All of these create a basic risk.

    Regarding the number of people, there is probably an optimum number of people. While more people means more fire creating risk, this is balanced by the chance that someone will spot the fire before it gets out of hand. So, 1 to 2 people would mean high risk, 3 to X would be lower risk, while above X would be high risk again. I don't know what number X is.


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    #17
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,523 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    voluntary wrote: »
    "The blaze two years ago spread across six houses in just 25 minutes. "

    https://www.thejournal.ie/report-into-fire-that-destroyed-six-kildare-homes-finds-houses-not-in-compliance-with-building-regulations-3576979-Sep2017/

    Another one in Terenure took 6 or 7 terrace houses out.
    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/major-fire-tackled-in-terenure-1.874203%3fmode=amp

    Op. Go up to the attic in the house that isn’t yours and see if the brick work goes all the way up the roof without gaps. If not you are in trouble


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    #18
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,523 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Extensions up to 400sqft may not require planning. That’s enough for a couple of bedrooms.

    As far as I know, house insurance for semi d is higher because of the risk of damage from your neighbour. But that should have been evident/considered the moment you looked at it.

    Incidentally, the risk of fire damage is the same for them coming from your house. Any improvements on fire protection will be shared costs between you both.


    Insurance is higherbevause the rebuild is higher. If they have to knock your house they may have to knock the neighbours or support it. The firewall may stop the fire but heat will do damage as will the fire brigades hose


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    #19
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Zeke Nice Lumberman wrote: »
    In a two bed semi d, if one went on fire how likely would it be to spread to the other? This situation has unlawful, unknown to local authority, extra 'bedrooms' in it for weeked visitors.


    is there a law re how many can be in a two bed semi d? is there a relationship between how many are in a house and risk of fire

    How long is a piece of string. House I bought has no firewall in the attic - you can walk across into the neighbours attic.

    A lot depends on the state of firewalls. You sometimes see (espec in the UK) walls separating properties continuing up beyond roof. Here, they go into attic normally, but not beyond- meaning your house gets drowned by the fire brigade stopping the spread across roof.

    After market extensions are problematic too - often there is only cavity block between extensions. Cheaper, but not as fire tight


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